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Oct 25, 2017
504
Love your posts, FYI. It's nice to have someone else post in this thread that knows what they're talking about and is just genuinely trying to help.

Happy to help. My CU has an obscenely narrow charter so anytime I can offer some assistance that's not eligibility-limited, I'll jump at it. Not to mention it's Black Friday and I think I've had 3 members come in to the office all day.

Since we're talking about getting the mortgage process started (as you mentioned with the soft pull before closing), I'd also advise Qwark that you start getting your paperwork in order. Not necessarily printing out your bank statements yet, but if you're not typically on your online banking frequently, now would be the time to make sure you have all that ironed out. That said of course, it's a sound practice to begin with. Also, it's the holiday season-- if you have any transactions that are out of the ordinary, make sure you have receipts/explanations/etc. I can tell you from both sides of the desk that having documentation to back up your activity makes the whole process go much more smoothly.

For instance, when I bought my current house, I had sold my townhouse prior. The proceeds from that sale became my down payment for this one. Still, that check represented a significant change in my account activity. While it should go without saying that the logic checked out, I still had my documentation at the ready to send to the underwriter. If you're asking yourself if the supporting documentation is overkill, you're on the right track as I'd much rather have too much than not enough.

Only other thing I'd add is minor but just in case-- while a lender will use your credit pull for 120 days in the case of a mortgage, you'll typically find 60 days is the window for most other loan types. As such, I keep a mental clock at around 45 days for everything just to allow plenty of time for any wrinkles along the way. Again though, I consider myself fairly risk averse when it comes to all things lending side so YMMV.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,017
Happy to help. My CU has an obscenely narrow charter so anytime I can offer some assistance that's not eligibility-limited, I'll jump at it. Not to mention it's Black Friday and I think I've had 3 members come in to the office all day.

Since we're talking about getting the mortgage process started (as you mentioned with the soft pull before closing), I'd also advise Qwark that you start getting your paperwork in order. Not necessarily printing out your bank statements yet, but if you're not typically on your online banking frequently, now would be the time to make sure you have all that ironed out. That said of course, it's a sound practice to begin with. Also, it's the holiday season-- if you have any transactions that are out of the ordinary, make sure you have receipts/explanations/etc. I can tell you from both sides of the desk that having documentation to back up your activity makes the whole process go much more smoothly.

For instance, when I bought my current house, I had sold my townhouse prior. The proceeds from that sale became my down payment for this one. Still, that check represented a significant change in my account activity. While it should go without saying that the logic checked out, I still had my documentation at the ready to send to the underwriter. If you're asking yourself if the supporting documentation is overkill, you're on the right track as I'd much rather have too much than not enough.

Only other thing I'd add is minor but just in case-- while a lender will use your credit pull for 120 days in the case of a mortgage, you'll typically find 60 days is the window for most other loan types. As such, I keep a mental clock at around 45 days for everything just to allow plenty of time for any wrinkles along the way. Again though, I consider myself fairly risk averse when it comes to all things lending side so YMMV.
Thanks for the tips - and also thanks again Hohakey for always answering my questions :)

I track my banking weekly and I did get together all of my statements for the pre-approval process so I think I have everything in order there. One thing, I did recently start a seasonal part-time job that isn't represented in my statements yet. It's going to be about an extra $1000/month. Is that enough to throw things off? It's only for a couple months so it's not a consistent thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
504
Thanks for the tips - and also thanks again Hohakey for always answering my questions :)

I track my banking weekly and I did get together all of my statements for the pre-approval process so I think I have everything in order there. One thing, I did recently start a seasonal part-time job that isn't represented in my statements yet. It's going to be about an extra $1000/month. Is that enough to throw things off? It's only for a couple months so it's not a consistent thing.

I say this as a manager and not as an underwriter so all caveats apply here:

I would keep paystubs/invoices/however you're being paid in case someone were to question it. That said, if that income isn't being used as a basis for repayment of the loan (as it is a seasonal gig), it shouldn't have any real impact.
 
OP
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Happy to help. My CU has an obscenely narrow charter so anytime I can offer some assistance that's not eligibility-limited, I'll jump at it. Not to mention it's Black Friday and I think I've had 3 members come in to the office all day.

Since we're talking about getting the mortgage process started (as you mentioned with the soft pull before closing), I'd also advise Qwark that you start getting your paperwork in order. Not necessarily printing out your bank statements yet, but if you're not typically on your online banking frequently, now would be the time to make sure you have all that ironed out. That said of course, it's a sound practice to begin with. Also, it's the holiday season-- if you have any transactions that are out of the ordinary, make sure you have receipts/explanations/etc. I can tell you from both sides of the desk that having documentation to back up your activity makes the whole process go much more smoothly.

For instance, when I bought my current house, I had sold my townhouse prior. The proceeds from that sale became my down payment for this one. Still, that check represented a significant change in my account activity. While it should go without saying that the logic checked out, I still had my documentation at the ready to send to the underwriter. If you're asking yourself if the supporting documentation is overkill, you're on the right track as I'd much rather have too much than not enough.

Only other thing I'd add is minor but just in case-- while a lender will use your credit pull for 120 days in the case of a mortgage, you'll typically find 60 days is the window for most other loan types. As such, I keep a mental clock at around 45 days for everything just to allow plenty of time for any wrinkles along the way. Again though, I consider myself fairly risk averse when it comes to all things lending side so YMMV.

Wonderful advice.
 

Phonzo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,817
So my closing is tomorrow afternoon. Is it normal to get the instruction package less than 24hours before closing?

im suppose to buy the cashiers check and hope i have all my ducks in a row the same morning as the closing the day?
this all seems so fucking aggravating, im going into the day blind.
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
So my closing is tomorrow afternoon. Is it normal to get the instruction package less than 24hours before closing?

im suppose to buy the cashiers check and hope i have all my ducks in a row the same morning as the closing the day?
this all seems so fucking aggravating, im going into the day blind.

Define instruction package.

If you just mean your absolute final figure for closing then I don't know if I would say normal, but definitely not unusual. It's really just how the process is structured which is dictated quite a bit by contract dates, laws, and regulations.

Basically, X cannot happen until Y time frame, which cannot begin until Z is signed etc etc

Also, a lender is often waiting on final figures from title the last few days before closing.

The title company often goes blameless because they are such a silent entity in all of this and the real estate agent typically has a good working relationship with them. Nobody wants to point the finger at them even though they are often times the ones holding things up. Then again, they can only do so much until they receive certain pieces of information as well.

That said, a good lender should have explained all of these time lines to you and you should have at least signed a closing disclosure with a pretty solid estimate for closing 3 days prior to closing. In fact, that's one of those laws I mentioned. If you have not seen a closing disclosure yet your closing may be in jeopardy. If they mailed it to you, it has to be mailed out seven days prior to closing and you should have received it by now.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,017
I came across this on Reddit, is this true?

My advice: avoid doing FHA. you can do a conventional loan with less than 20% down. FHA, the PMI (mortgage insurance) doesn't go away. Ever. This is huge.

I know it's a huge chunk of savings, but not paying any PMI is worth it for the 20% down (But understandable if you'd rather do less down). Lowest I've been quoted is about 65/month, which is nearly 800/year (FHA is higher than conventional from what I've seen.) Over 30 years (again, since fha doesn't remove PMI now), that's 24k that you've just given to insurance. On a conventional loan, PMI goes away, so making one extra payment on pure principle a year makes it a lot less you're paying on insurance if you don't do 20 down right away.

My wife and I are having a home built, due to close around your time frame. We're doing 10% on a conventional.

My actual first house that I've since sold was bought with FHA at the start of the 2009 recession. PMI was 148 on a 175k home, 3% down.

Hmm, I was counting on doing FHA as a first time homebuyer, but now I don't know if that's the best option. I don't think we'll get to 20% before we're ready to buy.
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
I came across this on Reddit, is this true?



Hmm, I was counting on doing FHA as a first time homebuyer, but now I don't know if that's the best option. I don't think we'll get to 20% before we're ready to buy.

If you have 5% down minimum and qualify for a conventional loan, then yes, always do a conventional loan. FHA however is still a great loan option for someone who may not have 5%, or a little bit lower credit, or higher debt to income ratio than conventional will allow.

Also, that person is wrong. With 10% down you can lose FHA mortgage insurance after 11 years.

People love to try and be mortgage experts.
 

greepoman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,958
If you have 5% down minimum and qualify for a conventional loan, then yes, always do a conventional loan. FHA however is still a great loan option for someone who may not have 5%, or a little bit lower credit, or higher debt to income ratio than conventional will allow.

Also, that person is wrong. With 10% down you can lose FHA mortgage insurance after 11 years.

People love to try and be mortgage experts.
When I first bought a house I got the whole "avoid PMI at any cost" from my friends as well. We went through all this trouble get a 2nd loan but looking back at it I'm not sure why. I actually find it weird how many people put things in terms of "over 30 years it costs x" when I don't know a single person whoever stayed in the first house you bought.

What is your advice on PMI Hok? Are there still breakpoints where you might pay less depending how much you put down?
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,017
If you have 5% down minimum and qualify for a conventional loan, then yes, always do a conventional loan. FHA however is still a great loan option for someone who may not have 5%, or a little bit lower credit, or higher debt to income ratio than conventional will allow.

Also, that person is wrong. With 10% down you can lose FHA mortgage insurance after 11 years.

People love to try and be mortgage experts.
Thank you! That's why I thought I best ask, lots of conflicting info out there.
 

Zoe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,236
We did 10% down with a conventional for a new build. PMI is somewhere around $90 on a 380k loan.
 

Brashnir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,236
When I first bought a house I got the whole "avoid PMI at any cost" from my friends as well. We went through all this trouble get a 2nd loan but looking back at it I'm not sure why. I actually find it weird how many people put things in terms of "over 30 years it costs x" when I don't know a single person whoever stayed in the first house you bought.

What is your advice on PMI Hok? Are there still breakpoints where you might pay less depending how much you put down?

PMI can be OK. There are loan types which decrease the amount of PMI you pay as you get the principal paid down to the required threshold as well.

If you have the 20% to put down to avoid PMI you should absolutely do so, but don't be afraid to take a loan just because you'll be paying some PMI. You'll have to talk with a loan officer about your specific financial situation to get real clarity, but it can be better to pay ~150/month in PMI while paying down a loan than waiting two years in a rental and tossing $2000/month into nothing while you save up to reach that 20%.

There are also a lot of incentives/breaks out there for first-time homeowners, which a good loan officer can walk you through.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,017
Things are happening so fast now. Just put in an offer for a house that we love. Got some good mortgage rates, but preparing to do a bunch more research now.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,017
Well, we locked in with 3.625%, did we do alright?

Close on the house in about a month, things are going very fast and we are very excited.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,017
Yes, depending on if you paid points to get it and what the lender fees were.
No paid points, and about $3,000 with origination and underwriting fees. The seller is paying all closing costs. We tried to get them to drop the price a little bit since there's some minor handy work that needs to be taken care of but they insisted on deducting that from closing instead. Not really sure why they're so insistent on not reducing the price, but we're pretty happy overall.

The mortgage company we're working with is Alerus, local bank here but fairly reputable. I read that the Iran stuff going on caused mortgage rates to drop. I feel a little bad that we lucked out for that reason.
 

RussTC3

Banned
Nov 28, 2018
1,878
Looking for some advice.

Purchased my home last year. Rates have decreased enough to where it made sense to refinance. It's been crazy busy and I admit I should have got quotes from more than one lender but I was quoted at a rate that was as low as others were at.

Zillow estimate is around $235K, we were looking for $225K, but we got appraised at $222K. I asked my lender to dispute because there are several properties that went higher and are smaller with less bedrooms/bathrooms around me but they stuck at $222K. I'm now expected to bring some money to close (instead of rolling it into the loan) all because the estimate came in under what we were expecting.

This has left me quite annoyed and now I want to get some quotes from other lenders. The only thing I'm in for at the moment is the appraisal fee and some other minor fees. I realize I would have to pay for the appraisal again from another lender but considering my cash to close will be around $1,800 I'm ok with that.

Is it ok/acceptable to contact other lenders? I told my current lender I wanted him to write up another disclosure and give me my options (with cash to close and without) because I wanted to see what options were out there including from other lenders.

I guess I'm just looking for how to proceed next. Rates have dropped again since late December when I was locked into 3.75, so I imagine I can get a better rate and hopefully not have to bring anything to close.

Thanks!
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Looking for some advice.

Purchased my home last year. Rates have decreased enough to where it made sense to refinance. It's been crazy busy and I admit I should have got quotes from more than one lender but I was quoted at a rate that was as low as others were at.

Zillow estimate is around $235K, we were looking for $225K, but we got appraised at $222K. I asked my lender to dispute because there are several properties that went higher and are smaller with less bedrooms/bathrooms around me but they stuck at $222K. I'm now expected to bring some money to close (instead of rolling it into the loan) all because the estimate came in under what we were expecting.

This has left me quite annoyed and now I want to get some quotes from other lenders. The only thing I'm in for at the moment is the appraisal fee and some other minor fees. I realize I would have to pay for the appraisal again from another lender but considering my cash to close will be around $1,800 I'm ok with that.

Is it ok/acceptable to contact other lenders? I told my current lender I wanted him to write up another disclosure and give me my options (with cash to close and without) because I wanted to see what options were out there including from other lenders.

I guess I'm just looking for how to proceed next. Rates have dropped again since late December when I was locked into 3.75, so I imagine I can get a better rate and hopefully not have to bring anything to close.

Thanks!

It is of course okay to still contact other lenders if you're willing to potentially eat the cost of the appraisal.

Let this be a lesson about Zillow. It's garbage.

What is the nature of the company you are already working with? Is it a bank or someone local?
 

RussTC3

Banned
Nov 28, 2018
1,878
It is of course okay to still contact other lenders if you're willing to potentially eat the cost of the appraisal.

Let this be a lesson about Zillow. It's garbage.

What is the nature of the company you are already working with? Is it a bank or someone local?
Yes I do understand that and didn't expect to get anywhere near what the Zillow estimate was, I was looking more at what comparable homes in my area sold for and $225K didn't seem like a stretch.

Wells Fargo is who my loan is through.
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Yes I do understand that and didn't expect to get anywhere near what the Zillow estimate was, I was looking more at what comparable homes in my area sold for and $225K didn't seem like a stretch.

Wells Fargo is who my loan is through.

Do not go through this process with a Big Bank. Big Banks work with bad appraisers because they pay them less.

Has anyone done a thorough cost-benefit analysis for you on this? Do you know what your know what your break-even would be on your monthly savings to recoup the cost of the refinance?
 

RussTC3

Banned
Nov 28, 2018
1,878
Do not go through this process with a Big Bank. Big Banks work with bad appraisers because they pay them less.

Has anyone done a thorough cost-benefit analysis for you on this? Do you know what your know what your break-even would be on your monthly savings to recoup the cost of the refinance?
Yes and no. I've asked for a full analysis and expect it by Monday.

I have a referral from a friend from a local bank and will be calling another one on Monday. I know now I should not have worked with a big bank. I wish I had seen this thread earlier. Trying to remedy the issue.

Do I let the other lenders know I have an appraisal already or will they want to do a new one regardless?
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Yes and no. I've asked for a full analysis and expect it by Monday.

I have a referral from a friend from a local bank and will be calling another one on Monday. I know now I should not have worked with a big bank. I wish I had seen this thread earlier. Trying to remedy the issue.

Do I let the other lenders know I have an appraisal already or will they want to do a new one regardless?

You can let them know but they will definitely need to do their own if you hope to get a higher value. Also, hopefully this is not an FHA mortgage. If it is, that appraisal is the only one that can be used for 4 months.
 

Carnby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,236
How badly will my credit score drop after I buy a house? I used a simulator provided by a credit score service, and it said my credit score will drop from 776 to 741. Is that accurate? Will it eventually bounce back?
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,200
How badly will my credit score drop after I buy a house? I used a simulator provided by a credit score service, and it said my credit score will drop from 776 to 741. Is that accurate? Will it eventually bounce back?
It doesn't matter. Once you buy a house you don't really need your credit to be perfect again for a while.
 
Oct 25, 2017
504
RussTC3 I'd definitely follow through with the cost-benefit analysis. Impossible to project for every possible scenario but it would take an outlier for a refi in the course of a year to be a slam dunk position.

That combined with Wells being the lender has me thinking there may have been some too good to be true advertising going on there. I bought mine in '16 and almost immediately was inundated with offers to refi. I'd most certainly proceed with caution here.

For everyone else reading, please follow Hokahey in regards to Zillow. Zillow is perfectly acceptable for what it is— a tool for a VERY rough estimate of value and a decent way to see price/sales history. As a guide to lending decisions, it's....lacking.

Carnby the estimator (which I don't really care for at all but that's another story) is giving a rudimentary guess to what a snapshot would look like immediately following and doing so in a way that's about as accurate as Zillow valuing a home.

Either way, to answer your question, of course it will go back up as you gain more history and considering where your score is currently (again assuming that's accurate—I put the CKs of the world in the same boat as Zillow), even a "drop" will still leave you in a space where you're still credit-wise in a top-tier range.

I know this place masquerades as a gaming forum but don't get so hung up on min/maxing. The credit-related doors you want open are already open. Those doors won't close after buying a house. I vehemently disagree that credit scores aren't important after buying but the hit for taking a mortgage wouldn't keep me up at night whatsoever.
 

snipe_25

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,165
I've "owned" my condo since March 2017, and have a 30-year fixed interest rate of 4.125%. My original broker has been bugging me about refi, and I've recently seen reports that mortgage rates are dropping (I saw 3.6% thrown around). I finally emailed them back to see what sort of rate they could offer. This is what they responded with (I've eliminated:

Product: 30yr Fixed
Property Type: Primary
Estimated Monthly Savings: $222
Cost: $0 (Lender Credit covers all cost)
Interest Rate: 3.75% (today)
Closing: Closes in March, skip April, 1st new payment in May

The "rule of thumb" is usually 1-2% lower for a refi, right? I'm skeptical that a 0.375% decrease would be worth it. However, with the "lender credit" it seems like the only downside would be extending my term from 27 remaining years back to 30? Anything I'm missing?
 

RussTC3

Banned
Nov 28, 2018
1,878
RussTC3 I'd definitely follow through with the cost-benefit analysis. Impossible to project for every possible scenario but it would take an outlier for a refi in the course of a year to be a slam dunk position.

That combined with Wells being the lender has me thinking there may have been some too good to be true advertising going on there. I bought mine in '16 and almost immediately was inundated with offers to refi. I'd most certainly proceed with caution here.
My rate is currently 4.875%, so I'll be shedding more than a full point (3.75% or less).
 
OP
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
I've "owned" my condo since March 2017, and have a 30-year fixed interest rate of 4.125%. My original broker has been bugging me about refi, and I've recently seen reports that mortgage rates are dropping (I saw 3.6% thrown around). I finally emailed them back to see what sort of rate they could offer. This is what they responded with (I've eliminated:

Product: 30yr Fixed
Property Type: Primary
Estimated Monthly Savings: $222
Cost: $0 (Lender Credit covers all cost)
Interest Rate: 3.75% (today)
Closing: Closes in March, skip April, 1st new payment in May

The "rule of thumb" is usually 1-2% lower for a refi, right? I'm skeptical that a 0.375% decrease would be worth it. However, with the "lender credit" it seems like the only downside would be extending my term from 27 remaining years back to 30? Anything I'm missing?

Not to pry, but your loan amount would have to be massive to save $222 on a rate reduction that small.

I'm also very skeptical on the $0 cost. Is he also covering title fees? What about the appraisal? Did he get a waiver or is he paying for it?

You need a Loan Estimate or Cost Worksheet.
 

whatsinaname

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,054
Not to pry, but your loan amount would have to be massive to save $222 on a rate reduction that small.

I'm also very skeptical on the $0 cost. Is he also covering title fees? What about the appraisal? Did he get a waiver or is he paying for it?

You need a Loan Estimate or Cost Worksheet.

How does no closing costs on refinance work? I am guessing all those are just rolled into the loan amount? Or are they markups on the rates.
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
How does no closing costs on refinance work? I am guessing all those are just rolled into the loan amount? Or are they markups on the rates.

Correct. Or a combo of the two. There is really no such thing as a no cost refi, depending on how you look at it.

That said, that type of loan structure is not necessarily a bad thing depending on the scenario.
 

snipe_25

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,165
Not to pry, but your loan amount would have to be massive to save $222 on a rate reduction that small.

I'm also very skeptical on the $0 cost. Is he also covering title fees? What about the appraisal? Did he get a waiver or is he paying for it?

You need a Loan Estimate or Cost Worksheet.

It's very large, yes. Can you expand on the waiver question?
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
It's very large, yes. Can you expand on the waiver question?

Some loans qualify for an appraisal waiver by Fannie/Freddie, meaning the lender is not required to complete one as part of the transaction, thus saving you money.

Also, as I think about it, it's much easier to get a very large lender credit on larger loan amounts.
 

greepoman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,958
Some loans qualify for an appraisal waiver by Fannie/Freddie, meaning the lender is not required to complete one as part of the transaction, thus saving you money.

Also, as I think about it, it's much easier to get a very large lender credit on larger loan amounts.
How large would the loan have to be to have the refi be no or little cost?
 

Gabriel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
343
Question - I see rates are down again and I'm sitting on a 15 year mortgage with a bit more than 9 years left at 3.625%. I owe a little more than 110k on a house valued at around 240k-ish. Is this worth trying to refi or not worth the hassle?
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Got 2 years left on my current deal, and I've always been cautious thinking I need a 5 year predictable rate. But given how things have been in the UK for a decade I'm sorely tempted to go for a 2 year tracker next time and further hammer the overpayments.
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
How large would the loan have to be to have the refi be no or little cost?

This varies by individual situation. The higher the rate, the more of a credit you'll get. The higher the loan amount, the higher the credit. It all depends on how much the lender is charging you, how large of a rate still saves you money, whether there is room to include the fees in your loan total, Etc.
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Question - I see rates are down again and I'm sitting on a 15 year mortgage with a bit more than 9 years left at 3.625%. I owe a little more than 110k on a house valued at around 240k-ish. Is this worth trying to refi or not worth the hassle?

Just doing quick math in my head that is probably borderline. It depends on how much you are currently paying, what your goals are, Etc. It also of course depends on the specific lender you are working with, what they charge, and what their rates are.
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
A quick reminder to all - please do not hesitate to PM me for a more in depth review of your specific scenario if you prefer. Yes I may ask you if you have any interest in me competing for your business, but for the most part my intent is just to be helpful to the community.

I have done this dozens of times for people on this board.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,200
My parents are retiring and I am probably going to buy a house to let them live in rather than pay the rent on the place they live now. Think it is better to take out a new mortgage for that or refinance my existing mortgage to take equity out and just buy their house? They live in a low cost of living state and I live in a very high cost of living city and have enough equity in my house to pay for their house and still not need need to do PMI on mine.
 
Oct 25, 2017
504
My rate is currently 4.875%, so I'll be shedding more than a full point (3.75% or less).

So here's where the outliers come into play. With a rate that high, again without knowing exactly details, it would point to a) an FHA loan done for either credit or down payment reasons or b) a conventional mortgage that offset the higher loan-to-value by baking it into the rate.

So if we're talking about the course of a year, either a) something drastically changed in terms of your credit or b) the property value changed drastically in the last 12 months and this would then change the LTV and subsequently a more advantageous loan.

If the answer is b, I'd take a look at that appraisal that the original lender had done (assuming this was at your cost). I don't want to sound like a downer at all (and I totally agree again about the big bank issues!), just don't want to see you throw good money after bad.

It was mentioned up thread a bit— I'm not a mortgage lender, I manage a small CU with an even smaller potential membership base but I've spent many many years working for the big banks and I don't want to see anyone get sold a bill of goods, hence my initial suspicion about the WF refi offer.

I'm still completely on board with everything Hokahey has recommended just with the addendum that I would really crunch some numbers on this before starting the process again with another lender. When it comes to financial decisions as large as a mortgage, I skew towards being risk averse. If I'm paying for another appraisal, I want good reason to believe the numbers will change significantly and would want better data than Zillow.

Best of luck!
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
So here's where the outliers come into play. With a rate that high, again without knowing exactly details, it would point to a) an FHA loan done for either credit or down payment reasons or b) a conventional mortgage that offset the higher loan-to-value by baking it into the rate.

So if we're talking about the course of a year, either a) something drastically changed in terms of your credit or b) the property value changed drastically in the last 12 months and this would then change the LTV and subsequently a more advantageous loan.

If the answer is b, I'd take a look at that appraisal that the original lender had done (assuming this was at your cost). I don't want to sound like a downer at all (and I totally agree again about the big bank issues!), just don't want to see you throw good money after bad.

It was mentioned up thread a bit— I'm not a mortgage lender, I manage a small CU with an even smaller potential membership base but I've spent many many years working for the big banks and I don't want to see anyone get sold a bill of goods, hence my initial suspicion about the WF refi offer.

I'm still completely on board with everything Hokahey has recommended just with the addendum that I would really crunch some numbers on this before starting the process again with another lender. When it comes to financial decisions as large as a mortgage, I skew towards being risk averse. If I'm paying for another appraisal, I want good reason to believe the numbers will change significantly and would want better data than Zillow.

Best of luck!

As always, good stuff bud. I appreciate you taking the time to extrapolate on things more often than I do.
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
My parents are retiring and I am probably going to buy a house to let them live in rather than pay the rent on the place they live now. Think it is better to take out a new mortgage for that or refinance my existing mortgage to take equity out and just buy their house? They live in a low cost of living state and I live in a very high cost of living city and have enough equity in my house to pay for their house and still not need need to do PMI on mine.

Without having access to all of the details my very general response to this would be to take out the new mortgage. The other option would be what is called a cash-out refinance or a home equity line of credit, both of which carry higher interest rates then a straight up purchase mortgage.

That would assume however that you were able to put one of them on the loan with you and you would act as a non occupant co-borrower. Otherwise, you are essentially purchasing this as an investment property and brakes are higher on those as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
504
As always, good stuff bud. I appreciate you taking the time to extrapolate on things more often than I do.

99% of this place is screaming into the void and I just don't have any desire to partake.

So for the remaining 1%, I indulge a bit and extrapolate haha. I think the fact that we're in related industries but don't perform the exact same functions lends a good bit of perspective. Hopefully it helps our audience here.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,200
Without having access to all of the details my very general response to this would be to take out the new mortgage. The other option would be what is called a cash-out refinance or a home equity line of credit, both of which carry higher interest rates then a straight up purchase mortgage.

That would assume however that you were able to put one of them on the loan with you and you would act as a non occupant co-borrower. Otherwise, you are essentially purchasing this as an investment property and brakes are higher on those as well.

I just have to be there 10 days a year for it to be considered a 2nd home which I usually am for holidays.

Not gonna charge them rent so I won't get the tax incentives of an investment property
 
Oct 25, 2017
504
My parents are retiring and I am probably going to buy a house to let them live in rather than pay the rent on the place they live now. Think it is better to take out a new mortgage for that or refinance my existing mortgage to take equity out and just buy their house? They live in a low cost of living state and I live in a very high cost of living city and have enough equity in my house to pay for their house and still not need need to do PMI on mine.

Again going to agree with what's already been said here and just add a couple small bits.

I'm not sure I'd do a home equity line of credit as you'll find they're predominantly pegged to the prime rate +/- a margin. Prime is still comparatively low compared to historical norms and again, my aversion to risk would play here as that could get expensive over time (albeit in typically 1/4 point increases at a time).

There is also a home equity installment loan where you get one set disbursement and a fixed rate for the life of the loan. Might be worth a look as opposed to a 2nd mortgage or a cash out refi.

All of this also doesn't take into any account potential tax implications especially on the home equity side.

Also again as alluded to, the more wrinkles you add (like an investment property vs. owner-occupied, non-occupant co-borrowers, etc), the more lenders may either charge more or just flat out not offer anything that fits. I would sit down with someone and really draw up every possible scenario and go from there.
 

greepoman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,958
I just have to be there 10 days a year for it to be considered a 2nd home which I usually am for holidays.

Not gonna charge them rent so I won't get the tax incentives of an investment property

Is the 2nd home thing a policy of your city or their state? Just be very sure to check all the tax/ownership implications in both areas.
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
I just have to be there 10 days a year for it to be considered a 2nd home which I usually am for holidays.

Not gonna charge them rent so I won't get the tax incentives of an investment property

The 10 day rule is not a Fannie/Freddie guideline. And charging rent or not, if the home is occupied full time by someone else and you are calling it your 2nd home then you are essentially a straw buyer and have committed mortgage fraud. I'd be careful.
 
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Hokahey

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
PSA - Rates will be the lowest they've been in years when the market opens tomorrow. With 30 year fixed rates at 3.5% or lower, those sitting at 4% or higher should consider refinancing.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,017
PSA - Rates will be the lowest they've been in years when the market opens tomorrow. With 30 year fixed rates at 3.5% or lower, those sitting at 4% or higher should consider refinancing.
Well poop, I thought I got lucky with 3.625. What's the reason they're so low tomorrow?