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Motherboard: RDR2 Players Are Excited to Attack and Kill Feminists in the Game [update: re-instated]

Oct 27, 2017
923
It operates well. Calling men trash isn't calling you trash personally, but the average male in our society. These patterns exist and are real, and I can acknowledge that being a dude myself. Just like I won't cry foul when a black man or woman calls white people trash, despite being white. Because on average, white people are just that.
Based on your relationship to the scientific method, I could claim the average woman is a scheming, manipulative sociopath, simply because I've been exposed to more than my share.

Do you see how stupid that sounds?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,605
Canada
Based on your relationship to the scientific method, I could claim the average woman is a scheming, manipulative sociopath, simply because I've been exposed to more than my share.

Do you see how stupid that sounds?
Not really. There are actual systemic forces that encourage men to be trash, it's not just based on personal experience
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,230
I don‘t know if we as a community should give those idiots any kind of spotlight. It reminds me of GTA coming under fire as a prostitute murdering simulator. That was mainly from sources outside of gaming aiming to discredit the game and its players. Let‘s not do that job for them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,777
Hes a scumbag but do people think he should be banned for his videos?

I for one think obviously not, there are worse videos allowed on youtube with violence in videogames...

Now, about what he posts in the comment section.... now thats another story
Never said it wasnt sick, just that isnt a reason to ban the channel.

If the game allows it, why it should be censored? Can you not also kill KKK? Can you not kill innocent people? Somone could say it sends the message that is OK to murder innocent people.... so no, I dont agree with that line of though.

Youtube comment section was ALWAYS always a dumpster fire place but I think they can find a reasoning to ban him again for his comments alone. (hopefully)
I know, its stick and revolting, and it shouldn't be banned IMHO since all hes doing is using the freedom thats allowed to the player on RDR2.

If you go that censorship route then one could way that the video below with that music, is making fun of murdering innocent people and his channel should be banned for it

Yes, he should absolutely be banned. The videos themselves are irrelevant. What matters is that he's clearly using them to spread hate. And that's unacceptable, shouldn't be tolerated, and absolutely should be grounds to ban him, like they originally did before YouTube caved.

Like, riddle me this if you still don't get it. Using your logic of "he's only using the freedom that's allowed to the player on RDR2" and focusing specifically on that, as if that should in any way be what matters here, but nonetheless going with that logic anyway here, imagine a scenario such as this:

A person uploads a video to YouTube entitled something to the effect of "Killing that goddamn N-Word" that's showing a player deliberately triggering one of the fail/death states for Miles Morales in the Spider-Man game for PS4.

Then this person uploads another video, titled something like "Showing that fucking N-Word Who's Boss Again" that's deliberately doing the same thing again, showing off another one of the fail/death states in one of the Miles sections of the game.

And then another one.

And then another.

And another.

Just uploading a bunch of videos, all entitled something to the effect of "Killing that goddamn N-word" showing off all the ways you can kill Miles in the game and just doing it in purpose, over and over again in each video.

Should something like that be allowed? Because under the logic you're using now, to defend this stuff, to argue that this person shouldn't be banned, you'd HAVE to say "yes" to be consistent. Because as you described these RDR2 videos, they might be "sick and revolting" but they're still nonetheless all about the player only "using the freedom allowed to the player by Insomniac's Spider-Man game for the PS4" so you'd HAVE to argue that stuff like that would be allowed as well, because it's only the freedom of the game that matters, and not the title of the game or the actual intent of the videos? Just whether the videos show something the game allows or not, that's all?

Of course, that's obviously, 100% nonsense, and I would you that you would agree with that. Regardless of whether the Spider-Man game would allow that stuff in my example, the intent of those videos in my example would be a 100% crystal clear attempt to spread racist hate and absolutely under no circumstances should be allowed and anyone who tries anything like that should indeed be kicked off YouTube ASAP and not be given any platform or ability to spread their hate, whatsoever.

And if you do indeed get that, that such a clearly racially charged set of videos should easily be enough to get people banned because of said intent despite it only using stock footage from the game to spread that message, if you get that, then you also understand the problem here with these Red Dead Redemption 2 videos, and it doesn't matter one iota whether it's just showing stuff you can do in the game or not. It's only using that footage to spread a message of misogyny and hate, and that should not be tolerated, and anyone doing something like that should absolutely 100% rightly be banned..

And if you don't, and would be fine with my hypothetical Miles Morales example as well, if someone making a series of videos all about killing him off on purpose and calling him the N-word in the title of each game is ALSO something you'd indeed be alright with, just because the videos using footage from a game to do that, as if that should matter at all, I just don't know what to say other than we're obviously at a complete impasse at that point because someone using video game footage to spread a message of hate shouldn't be a free pass to let that hate stay on YouTube. That shouldn't be tolerated, no matter what medium or means they're using to spread it. It should not be tolerated end of. So if you would indeed be fine with that, I don't know what to say at that point, but I hope you do and that that kind of example helps you understand what the problem is here and why this guy absolutely should be banned, end-of.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,777
I don‘t know if we as a community should give those idiots any kind of spotlight. It reminds me of GTA coming under fire as a prostitute murdering simulator. That was mainly from sources outside of gaming aiming to discredit the game and its players. Let‘s not do that job for them.
Yeah, that ain't going to work. This guy already had hundreds of thousands of views on these videos before anyone shined any type of spotlight on it. Just ignoring it and letting it fester clearly doesn't work, 'cause they're getting hits and spreading that nonsense regardless, and that definitely shouldn't go unchallenged at all.

So, I'm perfectly alright calling out sexist, misogynistic garbage like this whenever I see it and not just letting it go unchallenged or anything. These guys need to be deplatformed, 100%. That's what works. That's what takes down hateful peaces of fuck like Milo or Alex Jones. Not letting them continue to have their platforms on YouTube and the like to spread their hate to hundreds of thousands of more people. No, what does work is saying enough's enough, nothing about this is acceptable or alright, taking that platform away from them, and limiting their ability to spread their hate, which they have to right or entitlement to.

Ignoring this stuff and letting it fester and spread is never the answer. Deplatforming is.
 
Oct 31, 2017
603
The difference being that the first vid got a million views and a bunch of comments talking about how much people hate feminists and SJWs during a time where gaming is coming under a lot of scrutiny for its misogyny problem.
Ah, I see. I didn't get a chance to look at the videos because it was taken down (and reuploaded I guess?)
But one thing I do wish was discussed is whether or not R* should be held to some sort of responsibility for even allowing characters like this to be attacked and killed.

I HIGHlY doubt the studio is compltely unaware of the current political climate. And honestly even if it was under long development times, people hating feminists is hardly a new thing. Just louder than before. Are they going to patch out that ability?
 
Oct 31, 2017
603
Yes. Because you are essentially targeting an actual social movement that continues to this day and is being targeted to this day. It stops being about the pixels when you are galvanizing an entire alt right base and ginning them up by having these types of being being viciously murdered, whether its a game or not doesnt matter to the agenda being shown.

A majority of people are not referring to this woman being able to be attacked. Rather his multiple videos targeting feminists for right wing goons to rally around and say "yeah take that feminists, i'd love to do a lot worse to em!"
Then the question I must ask then is why is R* seemingly getting little to no flack for allowing players to engage in such activities.
This isn't to absolve the Youtuber in any way.
Rather I want to tackle the source and point out that R* aren't fucking oblivious to the political climate today, and back then 'feminist hating' wasn't an outlier thing either.
I feel that if these kinds of controversies are going to crop up than we need to start taking studios that boast a world where you can literally kill whatever and whoever you want to the table and ask them if making sufferagists/civil rights advocates and any other social advocacy group able to get the shit kicked out of them is worth it for the sake of realism and avoiding 'Baked Alaska' tier Twitter trolls screaming censorship and SJW invasion politics.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,286
New Jersey
Then the question I must ask then is why is R* seemingly getting little to no flack for allowing players to engage in such activities.
This isn't to absolve the Youtuber in any way.
Rather I want to tackle the source and point out that R* aren't fucking oblivious to the political climate today, and back then 'feminist hating' wasn't an outlier thing either.
I think its a step too far to immunize the female NPC's in the game. Cause that is a rabbit hole of asking why anything is able to be attacked in a game where freedom is the biggest draw. The issue should be those who choose to glorify said actions being held to account
 
Oct 2, 2018
149
Praising bans will never help your own rhethoric and is just asking for backlash and streisand effects. By banning this clown, youtube didn't help feminism, they just brought the entire world's attention on him. You can kill cops in GTA, you can kill women, old, young people (but god forbid no kids!), if you start making special cases you'll only raise eyebrows no matter what the NPC is saying. It's already annoying with key characters in Skyrim, but if game designers need now to protect NPCs preaching rhethorics, it's just asking for their complete removal.

I can't believe debates over violence in a VIDEO GAME keeps happening in 2018.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,256
Praising bans will never help your own rhethoric and is just asking for backlash and streisand effects. By banning this clown, youtube didn't help feminism, they just brought the entire world's attention on him. You can kill cops in GTA, you can kill women, old, young people (but god forbid no kids!), if you start making special cases you'll only raise eyebrows no matter what the NPC is saying. It's already annoying with key characters in Skyrim, but if game designers need now to protect NPCs preaching rhethorics, it's just asking for their complete removal.

I can't believe debates over violence in a VIDEO GAME keeps happening in 2018.
The videogame violence itself should be irrelevant. He's using recorded gameplay footage as a tool for communicating hate speech.
Next.
 
Oct 25, 2017
620
Praising bans will never help your own rhethoric and is just asking for backlash and streisand effects. By banning this clown, youtube didn't help feminism, they just brought the entire world's attention on him. You can kill cops in GTA, you can kill women, old, young people (but god forbid no kids!), if you start making special cases you'll only raise eyebrows no matter what the NPC is saying. It's already annoying with key characters in Skyrim, but if game designers need now to protect NPCs preaching rhethorics, it's just asking for their complete removal.

I can't believe debates over violence in a VIDEO GAME keeps happening in 2018.
just like the last person who missed the point, its not about the games content, and its not about GTA.
 

potatohead

Banned
Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,889
Earthbound
These problems will remain with idiots doing what idiots do best which is be idiots

We should not be surprised by the scandalous behaviour anymore than we should be surprised by mass shootings in USA

There are obvious reasons why these things happen. Kids who are not taught to respect others or who do not live among others. Guns control and poor healthcare and poor mental healthcare and poor social safety nets for mentally ill and restrictions on suspending gun rights for people, etc etc.

It is the responsibility and civic duty of people to recognize these things and vote in appropriate individuals to address these issues with common sense reforms

A ban here, a ban there, will do nothing to stop the spread of hateful ideas or racist or discriminatory ideas. You cannot just plug a hole in a a sinking ship with a thousand holes and expect it to float

People may not like it but the ultimate solution rests in education of kids from a young age and teaching them to respect others, having sex education early, teaching them to rely on science and thoughtful argument, and to question sincerely if they do not understand something or disagree with something, and stop the role of religion in politics and political and social issues (personal religion is fine, mass religion to effect policies which effect others is not).

That's not easy to do and takes decades to see the effects, and people will resist even beginning it

To me it is shocking that in many countries including USA there are not mandatory civics classes or more of them in schools, and this is only a drop in the bucket but its part of teaching people how society is governed and social issues of the day
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,382
These problems will remain with idiots doing what idiots do best which is be idiots

A ban here, a ban there, will do nothing to stop the spread of hateful ideas or racist or discriminatory ideas. You cannot just plug a hole in a a sinking ship with a thousand holes and expect it to float

People may not like it but the ultimate solution rests in education of kids from a young age and teaching them to respect others, having sex education early, teaching them to rely on science and thoughtful argument, and to question sincerely if they do not understand something or disagree with something, and stop the role of religion in politics and political and social issues (personal religion is fine, mass religion to effect policies which effect others is not).

That's not easy to do and takes decades to see the effects, and people will resist even beginning it

To me it is shocking that in many countries including USA there are not mandatory civics classes or more of them in schools, and this is only a drop in the bucket but its part of teaching people how society is governed and social issues of the day
Deplatforming works.
 
Oct 2, 2018
149
just like the last person who missed the point, its not about the games content, and its not about GTA.
The videogame violence itself should be irrelevant. He's using recorded gameplay footage as a tool for communicating hate speech
You're just helping him to spread out this message by giving him attention. I'd be pretty interested in seeing the numbers for his video before and after the ban. You're just creating a streisand effect by actively trying to shut his channel down. But the harm is already done and the thread is almost past the 1 500 post number. That's just one more stupid polemic that won't help anyone besides the miserable creator.
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,382
You're just helping him to spread out this message by giving him attention. I'd be pretty interested in seeing the numbers for his video before and after the ban. You're just creating a streisand effect by actively trying to shut his channel down. But the harm is already done and the thread is almost past the 1 500 post number. That's just one more stupid polemic that won't help anyone besides the miserable creator.
i'd be pretty interested in seeing his views if the ban stuck like it should have :) :) :)
 

potatohead

Banned
Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,889
Earthbound
Deplatforming works.
Agree in some sense for major political agitators like that idiot who was on YT screaming his head off, because he was a major influencer, I agree it works here

But it will never work in all cases, it is not the solution, it is a bandaid.

Bandaids are good for Alex Jones, a one major idiot who can be deplatformed

But you can't deplatform and police thoughts for everyone online when these thoughts are so pervasive. The ships already underwater and we're trying to plug holes, it's not going to work

Solutions for social problems are almost invariably complex and involve decades of commitment to effect change
 
Oct 25, 2017
620
You're just helping him to spread out this message by giving him attention. I'd be pretty interested in seeing the numbers for his video before and after the ban. You're just creating a streisand effect by actively trying to shut his channel down. But the harm is already done and the thread is almost past the 1 500 post number. That's just one more stupid polemic that won't help anyone besides the miserable creator.
Are you actually arguing in favor of letting him continue to do this? removing his outlet for promoting hateful trash is a positive no matter how you try and spin it, as is any potential precedent it would set by having Youtube actually step in to say its not ok.
 
Dec 21, 2017
7,298
Didn't realize they gave him the channel back. Hopefully he gets banned again because all it's doing is riling up some real pieces of work that are cheering him on. YouTube allows some really harmful and terrible vids on their platform though so it's not surprising.
 
Oct 2, 2018
149
Are you actually arguing in favor of letting him continue to do this? removing his outlet for promoting hateful trash is a positive no matter how you try and spin it, as is any potential precedent it would set by having Youtube actually step in to say its not ok.
I'm arguing that if someone didn't get triggered because of a dumb video, this guy wouldn't have had a tenth of the views he has right now. His playthrough of Deraciné barely reaches 4k views. There's no shortage of dumb people posting dumb videos, and for one you successfully remove, how many others don't even turn out with a basic search on youtube? You can't win against dumb people and if you ban them they can describe themselves as martyrs. Ban this guy and tomorrow you'll have 10 or more other video uploader to spread footage of this same NPC eaten by a grizzly, pigs, wolves, etc....

The only reason why this guy gets views and subscribers is because he uploads soundtracks (like the soulsborne ones) and certainly not for his views over feminism. But for a guy like him you silence, there are several others that will be mean on purpose, just because they can, and the people actually enjoying this initial footage won't have much trouble to find the other videos thanks to their historic, and google preferences. It's a textbook example of the streisand effect.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
620
I'm arguing that if someone didn't get triggered because of a dumb video, this guy wouldn't have had a tenth of the views he has right now. His playthrough of Deraciné barely reach 4k views. There's no shortage of dumb people posting dumb videos, for one you successfully remove how many others don't even turn out with a basic search on youtube? You can't win against dumb people and if you ban them they can describe themselves as martyrs. Ban this guy and tomorrow you'll have 10 or more other video uploader to spread footage of this same NPC eaten by a grizzly, pigs, wolves, etc....

The only reason why this guy gets views and subscribers is mainly for his soundtrack uploads (like the soulsborne ones) and certainly not for his views over feminism. But for a guy like him you silence, there are several others that will be mean on purpose, just because they can, and the people actually enjoying this initial footage won't have much trouble to find the other videos thanks to their historic, and google preferences. It's a textbook example of the streisand effect.
Yeah nah, lets not normalize this as something that just has to be accepted. The fact that you're reducing it to "getting triggered" is already enough to know how you really feel.
 
Oct 2, 2018
149
Yeah nah, lets not normalize this as something that just has to be accepted. The fact that you're reducing it to "getting triggered" is already enough to know how you really feel.
To watch ISIS videos, you just have to ask to youtube, and it's uploaded by famous newspapers /news channels(Telegraph, CNN,etc..) for the sake of information, but also to have a neutral upload. When people want to find this kind of video, they just have to ask. The real problem is education, not the means of communication. Try to cut off the head of the hydra and several others will regrow. The problem in itself is why people want to see feminists punched, not the video itself.
 
Oct 31, 2017
603
I think its a step too far to immunize the female NPC's in the game. Cause that is a rabbit hole of asking why anything is able to be attacked in a game where freedom is the biggest draw. The issue should be those who choose to glorify said actions being held to account
I'm not saying make all female NPCs immune to violence. What I am saying is that if an NPC male/female not tied to the central story plot identifies as a real world civil rights ideology or movement it should be best not to allow them to get killed.

EDIT: This goes for all games that push for real life realism. Not just R* games
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,960
Guy and the people who follow him seem like huge pieces of shit to be profiting on content like this.

That said, YouTube played their hand in this by constantly promoting this fuck’s videos all the time. Constantly saw this video recommended for me for some reason. This led to that one video of punching a feminist to become many videos on the subject. They’re as much to blame here.

Due to that, he shouldn’t have gotten banned in the first place. Should have gave him a warning first if anything.
 
Oct 2, 2018
149
I'm not saying make all female NPCs immune to violence. What I am saying is that if an NPC male/female not tied to the central story plot identifies as a real world civil rights ideology or movement it should be best not to allow them to get killed.

EDIT: This goes for all games that push for real life realism. Not just R* games
Why would they include this kind of characters then? The only answer devs will come up with is to remove these characters altogether.
 

OVOCanadaBooth

Banned
Member
Dec 9, 2017
720
User Banned (1 week): Excusing Portrayals of Violence Against Women, Inflammatory Comparisons
Let me guess, the owner of this channel is white?
The same way you know that you can pin a negative situation on race, as long as the person is white,
is the same way Shirrako knows he can upload targeted violence toward feminist/women, as long as it's in a video game.

Everyone knows their boundaries.

God forbid this thread was about someone who died from a drive-by shooting, & you posted "Let me guess, the shooters were black?"
You would never post such a comment, because you know your boundaries.

Youtube came out and said his videos don't violate TOS. That means he's within HIS boundaries to upload these videos.
Let the guy live.