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Motorcycle-Era |OT| Two are better than four

Oct 25, 2017
693
So Harley finally released the specs for the Livewire, and holy frack what were they thinking??!??!!?!?

Range: 110 miles
Price: $29,000.00




The Zero S gets almost twice the range at less than 2/3 the price. This is going to flop so hard, I need to sell my HD stock before this comes out...
 
Oct 28, 2017
574
Do we believe Harley riders are generally motivated by value-for-dollar? Also what are you doing owning individual stocks, especially HD, get thee to an ETF.
 
Oct 25, 2017
693
Also what are you doing owning individual stocks, especially HD, get thee to an ETF.
Oh I have ETF's too. I've had my HD stocks for many years, just been waiting to unload them at a good time. Unfortunately the stock keeps going down, and I'm beginning to think it's a trend that won't be reversing anytime soon.

On the plus side I put 130 miles on the Goldwing this past Sunday! It started out warm but got cold and windy later in the day. Looking so forward to better weather so I can ride her long distance.
 
The new VW Golf-E (or whatever the name will be) that will come later this year will be around 30k€ with 400 km range. The price of the Livewire will make this bike dead on arrival. But it realy looks good.

I'm thinking about buying thermo underwear for a rideout next weak. After such a long time without my bike I cant wait longer.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,327
I'm thinking about buying thermo underwear for a rideout next week.
Been using that stuff for years on colder days. It's fantastic and absolutely essential in a rider's, eh repertoire imho.

and that's a whole damned car
Though now that I think about it, it has always surprised me a little bit how much cheaper a motorcycle can be comparatively when you look at how much higher-end the components are on most motorcycles than they are on cars. Still, there's a lot less of it. That is true.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,134
Thermal layers are definitely recommended. Even the cheap stuff Lidl/Aldi tend to get in for a few quid is really helpful. All about layers.

Though now that I think about it, it has always surprised me a little bit how much cheaper a motorcycle can be comparatively when you look at how much higher-end the components are on most motorcycles than they are on cars. Still, there's a lot less of it. That is true.
Well I paid £1000 more for my Ducati used than my car cost brand new. I have my priorities set straight
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,703
Yeah Im not sure what Harley is thinking but this thing is almost destined to fail, which is a real shame. Its probably the best looking Harley in years but that range sucks (110 around town, so probably 70-80 miles of "spirited" riding if you are lucky im guessing) and the price tag is laughable.
 
You always drop the bike when you least expect it. I was backing up my KLR650 into the shed when I GENTLY laid her down because the weight was too much after it tipped a certain amount.

Anyway, why does Harley keep overpricing their motorcycles? 29 thousand USD for an electric motorcycle with only 110 miles of range... You can get a Goldwing for less than that and more than double the range!

Edit:
Wellp, just found this electric bike/motorcycle/not streetlegal thing for almost 40k USD with only 60 miles of range


https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/novus-electric-motorcycle-breaks-cover-ces
 
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Oct 30, 2017
1,327
There is of course such a thing as the early adopter premium, but I don't know much longer electric vehicles are going to be carrying that (while offering shit range) if they ever plan to reach a wider market with them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
693
I dont have a problem with either electric bikes or cars, just the price! If anything I can't wait for affordable electric bikes. All that torque...
I actually think the Zero electric bikes are priced fairly reasonably for what they are. You could buy a gas bike with better performance for less of course, but they aren't grossly more money for the Zero, and they seem to be well made and perform well.

This HD Livewire though is just a farce. Poor range for far too much money. They really shouldn't have bothered trying if this is how it will hit the market.

Makes me very nervous about the new HD models coming out next year, like the Pan American and the Street Fighter.



Not that any of it will impact me of course, I'm a Honda man now! :)
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,134
I like Zero, I just feel like you're getting Japanese finish for European prices. Few more years and they'll be worthwhile I think.

It's crazy to me that HD seems to be the only traditional manufacturer in the game though. Unless you count BMW's scooter, or that moped Yamaha released a few years back that did so poorly I can still walk into a showroom and buy a launch model brand new

At least Husky have their electric offroad, perhaps that tech will translate into some sweet KTMs somehow.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,327
True, anyone should be able to see the writing on the wall, though by now, I suspect, all the major manufacturers are at least experimenting internally.

What will interest me most is how brands will be able to differentiate when the ICE has gone the way of the dodo and everything is the same i.e. electric.
 
Oct 25, 2017
693
These wouldn't have annoyed me so much if they hadn't pulled the rug out from under Buell for no good reason.
Agreed. I’m still miffed they had the V-rod engine for all that time but never put it into a touring bike. I know dozens of Harley guys who wanted that in the worst way, including myself. What a colossal waste of resources, like with Buell too.
 
Oct 28, 2017
25
Took my BMW in for it's 18k service last week, and they gave me a little G310GS as a loaner. I had heard good things about it being a mini-GS, but I didn't like it at all. Felt really cheap. Took a lot to get it going anywhere. I got back to the dealer at 5 and they had been trying to get hold of me to tell me my bike wasn't ready so offered to let me take the loaner home. And then decided because of the distance they would give me another loaner. So pulled around a brand new (1000 miles on it) R1250GS Rallye TE.

Wow. What a machine! Way easier to ride than I expected even around town. I think it had the low seat on it but in the high position (I didn't check) and being a short 5'7" I was a bit concerned about the height, but it was really nothing to worry about.

Took it for a longer ride back the next day and convinced myself this would be my new bike. Now figuring out my upgrade path (from R1200RS). Oh...and because of the "inconvenience" they didn't charge me for some extra work I had authorised on top of the service!

 
Oct 25, 2017
174
I finally crashed on the dirt, or in reality, very sandy dirt. It was spectacular in my head, but really it was just an epic tank slapper that eventually pushed us both to the left side, we somehow spun around and ended up facing the wrong way. I remember my body rag dolling on the sand just waiting for it all to stop. My leg was underneath my hard saddle bag so I was a little concerned, but it turns out sand is pretty soft. I ended up perfectly fine, nothing hurts.

I got help to stand the bike back up, noticed the shifter lever was bent, quickly fixed it with some stomps with my boots, and of we went. Still rode another 100 miles on dirt.

I was going a little too fast for my skill with a false sense of confidence like all crashes eventually do. Pro tip: don't try to mimic the Dakar riders.
 
Oct 27, 2017
24
At least you're ok, and the bike is not much the worse for it.

I took a winter ride today seeing as it was at least dry, and man do I miss being on my bike after a couple of weeks off... Only stopped once I really couldn't handle the cold anymore and my hands started hurting... I'm kinda over Winter already.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,327
I finally crashed on the dirt, or in reality, very sandy dirt. It was spectacular in my head, but really it was just an epic tank slapper that eventually pushed us both to the left side, we somehow spun around and ended up facing the wrong way. I remember my body rag dolling on the sand just waiting for it all to stop. My leg was underneath my hard saddle bag so I was a little concerned, but it turns out sand is pretty soft. I ended up perfectly fine, nothing hurts.

I got help to stand the bike back up, noticed the shifter lever was bent, quickly fixed it with some stomps with my boots, and of we went. Still rode another 100 miles on dirt.

I was going a little too fast for my skill with a false sense of confidence like all crashes eventually do. Pro tip: don't try to mimic the Dakar riders.
Starting to get kind of envious of your crash experience :D. It's something I lack.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,327
^ yeah that would be nice.

Agreed. I’m still miffed they had the V-rod engine for all that time but never put it into a touring bike. I know dozens of Harley guys who wanted that in the worst way, including myself. What a colossal waste of resources, like with Buell too.
I think I actually read somewhere that Erik Buell was actually involved in the development of the V-rod engine and that it was originally intended for a Buell platform until development was steered into a more cruiser-y direction and the project moved to HD (where it died in that crap bike).

Yep, here it is:

Erik Buel: The second time we had taken a run at a water cooled superbike it was actually going to be using the Revolution engine, it was in the mid ‘90s we started that project, which wound up being the V-Rod engine and what happened that time was the specifications we needed and the specifications Harley needed just couldn’t gel well enough and the Harley one took precedence but the specifications of what we needed were just too different.

Kneeslider: A number of people were wondering about whether you had ever considered the Revolution engine …

Erik Buell: We actually started that project.

Kneeslider: Really? I don’t think a lot of people know that.

Erik Buell: Yep.
https://thekneeslider.com/erik-buell-interview/