Motorcycle-Era |OT| Two are better than four

Mengy · Jan 9, 2019

So Harley finally released the specs for the Livewire, and holy frack what were they thinking??!??!!?!?

Range: 110 miles
Price: $29,000.00

The Zero S gets almost twice the range at less than 2/3 the price. This is going to flop so hard, I need to sell my HD stock before this comes out...

Briareos · Jan 9, 2019

Do we believe Harley riders are generally motivated by value-for-dollar? Also what are you doing owning individual stocks, especially HD, get thee to an ETF.

Mengy · Jan 9, 2019

BriareosGAF said:
Also what are you doing owning individual stocks, especially HD, get thee to an ETF.

Oh I have ETF's too. I've had my HD stocks for many years, just been waiting to unload them at a good time. Unfortunately the stock keeps going down, and I'm beginning to think it's a trend that won't be reversing anytime soon.

On the plus side I put 130 miles on the Goldwing this past Sunday! It started out warm but got cold and windy later in the day. Looking so forward to better weather so I can ride her long distance.

Fallout-NL · Jan 10, 2019

Yeah that Livewire will be north of 40k here I suspect. Possibly even more. In euro money. Shame, it's the best looking electric bike I've seen to date.

Dougald · Jan 10, 2019

That's Goldwing money, for a bike you can't tour on. Hell that's pretty much Nissan Leaf money, and that's a whole damned car

Rotkehle · Jan 10, 2019

The new VW Golf-E (or whatever the name will be) that will come later this year will be around 30k€ with 400 km range. The price of the Livewire will make this bike dead on arrival. But it realy looks good.

I'm thinking about buying thermo underwear for a rideout next weak. After such a long time without my bike I cant wait longer.

Fallout-NL · Jan 10, 2019

Axolotl said:
I'm thinking about buying thermo underwear for a rideout next week.

Been using that stuff for years on colder days. It's fantastic and absolutely essential in a rider's, eh repertoire imho.

Dougald said:
and that's a whole damned car

Though now that I think about it, it has always surprised me a little bit how much cheaper a motorcycle can be comparatively when you look at how much higher-end the components are on most motorcycles than they are on cars. Still, there's a lot less of it. That is true.

Dougald · Jan 10, 2019

Thermal layers are definitely recommended. Even the cheap stuff Lidl/Aldi tend to get in for a few quid is really helpful. All about layers.

Fallout-NL said:
Though now that I think about it, it has always surprised me a little bit how much cheaper a motorcycle can be comparatively when you look at how much higher-end the components are on most motorcycles than they are on cars. Still, there's a lot less of it. That is true.

Well I paid £1000 more for my Ducati used than my car cost brand new. I have my priorities set straight

Fallout-NL · Jan 10, 2019

That you do. I almost could have bought a new (ish) KTM 1290 for what I paid for the Boxster, but I do love that car.

Mengy · Jan 10, 2019

Dougald said:
That's Goldwing money, for a bike you can't tour on.

No, my 2018 Goldwing DCT Tour was many thousands LESS than that Livewire will be! O_O

HellforLeather · Jan 10, 2019

Yeah Im not sure what Harley is thinking but this thing is almost destined to fail, which is a real shame. Its probably the best looking Harley in years but that range sucks (110 around town, so probably 70-80 miles of "spirited" riding if you are lucky im guessing) and the price tag is laughable.

Fallout-NL · Jan 10, 2019

HellforLeather said:
best looking Harley in years

Truth

Microsoft · Jan 10, 2019

You always drop the bike when you least expect it. I was backing up my KLR650 into the shed when I GENTLY laid her down because the weight was too much after it tipped a certain amount.

Anyway, why does Harley keep overpricing their motorcycles? 29 thousand USD for an electric motorcycle with only 110 miles of range... You can get a Goldwing for less than that and more than double the range!

Edit:
Wellp, just found this electric bike/motorcycle/not streetlegal thing for almost 40k USD with only 60 miles of range

https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/novus-electric-motorcycle-breaks-cover-ces

Fallout-NL · Jan 10, 2019

There is of course such a thing as the early adopter premium, but I don't know much longer electric vehicles are going to be carrying that (while offering shit range) if they ever plan to reach a wider market with them.

Microsoft · Jan 10, 2019

I think electric motorcycles or even cars can make a lot of sense if it is your secondary vehicle.

Dougald · Jan 10, 2019

I dont have a problem with either electric bikes or cars, just the price! If anything I can't wait for affordable electric bikes. All that torque...

Fallout-NL · Jan 10, 2019

I had a go on one once. It was awesome.

Mengy · Jan 10, 2019

Dougald said:
I dont have a problem with either electric bikes or cars, just the price! If anything I can't wait for affordable electric bikes. All that torque...

I actually think the Zero electric bikes are priced fairly reasonably for what they are. You could buy a gas bike with better performance for less of course, but they aren't grossly more money for the Zero, and they seem to be well made and perform well.

This HD Livewire though is just a farce. Poor range for far too much money. They really shouldn't have bothered trying if this is how it will hit the market.

Makes me very nervous about the new HD models coming out next year, like the Pan American and the Street Fighter.

Not that any of it will impact me of course, I'm a Honda man now! :)

Fallout-NL · Jan 11, 2019

Mengy said:
like the Pan American and the Street Fighter.

These wouldn't have annoyed me so much if they hadn't pulled the rug out from under Buell for no good reason.

Dougald · Jan 11, 2019

I like Zero, I just feel like you're getting Japanese finish for European prices. Few more years and they'll be worthwhile I think.

It's crazy to me that HD seems to be the only traditional manufacturer in the game though. Unless you count BMW's scooter, or that moped Yamaha released a few years back that did so poorly I can still walk into a showroom and buy a launch model brand new

At least Husky have their electric offroad, perhaps that tech will translate into some sweet KTMs somehow.

Fallout-NL · Jan 11, 2019

True, anyone should be able to see the writing on the wall, though by now, I suspect, all the major manufacturers are at least experimenting internally.

What will interest me most is how brands will be able to differentiate when the ICE has gone the way of the dodo and everything is the same i.e. electric.

Mengy · Jan 11, 2019

Fallout-NL said:
These wouldn't have annoyed me so much if they hadn't pulled the rug out from under Buell for no good reason.

Agreed. I'm still miffed they had the V-rod engine for all that time but never put it into a touring bike. I know dozens of Harley guys who wanted that in the worst way, including myself. What a colossal waste of resources, like with Buell too.

Dougald · Jan 11, 2019

Triumph sent me a survey about electric bike ownership ~6 years ago, so it's safe to say they were at least working on it at one point...

blackprophesy · Jan 11, 2019

Took my BMW in for it's 18k service last week, and they gave me a little G310GS as a loaner. I had heard good things about it being a mini-GS, but I didn't like it at all. Felt really cheap. Took a lot to get it going anywhere. I got back to the dealer at 5 and they had been trying to get hold of me to tell me my bike wasn't ready so offered to let me take the loaner home. And then decided because of the distance they would give me another loaner. So pulled around a brand new (1000 miles on it) R1250GS Rallye TE.

Wow. What a machine! Way easier to ride than I expected even around town. I think it had the low seat on it but in the high position (I didn't check) and being a short 5'7" I was a bit concerned about the height, but it was really nothing to worry about.

Took it for a longer ride back the next day and convinced myself this would be my new bike. Now figuring out my upgrade path (from R1200RS). Oh...and because of the "inconvenience" they didn't charge me for some extra work I had authorised on top of the service!

Rotkehle · Jan 11, 2019

Very nice, it's funny how I root more and more in favor in BMW GS bikes.

Fallout-NL · Jan 11, 2019

Pretty good day at the dealer it sounds like.

Ocho · Jan 14, 2019

I finally crashed on the dirt, or in reality, very sandy dirt. It was spectacular in my head, but really it was just an epic tank slapper that eventually pushed us both to the left side, we somehow spun around and ended up facing the wrong way. I remember my body rag dolling on the sand just waiting for it all to stop. My leg was underneath my hard saddle bag so I was a little concerned, but it turns out sand is pretty soft. I ended up perfectly fine, nothing hurts.

I got help to stand the bike back up, noticed the shifter lever was bent, quickly fixed it with some stomps with my boots, and of we went. Still rode another 100 miles on dirt.

I was going a little too fast for my skill with a false sense of confidence like all crashes eventually do. Pro tip: don't try to mimic the Dakar riders.

Moogrose · Jan 15, 2019

At least you're ok, and the bike is not much the worse for it.

I took a winter ride today seeing as it was at least dry, and man do I miss being on my bike after a couple of weeks off... Only stopped once I really couldn't handle the cold anymore and my hands started hurting... I'm kinda over Winter already.

Fallout-NL · Jan 15, 2019

Ocho said:
I finally crashed on the dirt, or in reality, very sandy dirt. It was spectacular in my head, but really it was just an epic tank slapper that eventually pushed us both to the left side, we somehow spun around and ended up facing the wrong way. I remember my body rag dolling on the sand just waiting for it all to stop. My leg was underneath my hard saddle bag so I was a little concerned, but it turns out sand is pretty soft. I ended up perfectly fine, nothing hurts.

I got help to stand the bike back up, noticed the shifter lever was bent, quickly fixed it with some stomps with my boots, and of we went. Still rode another 100 miles on dirt.

I was going a little too fast for my skill with a false sense of confidence like all crashes eventually do. Pro tip: don't try to mimic the Dakar riders.

Starting to get kind of envious of your crash experience :D. It's something I lack.

Microsoft · Jan 15, 2019

Fallout-NL said:
Starting to get kind of envious of your crash experience :D. It's something I lack.

And the year round riding.

Fallout-NL · Jan 15, 2019

^ yeah that would be nice.

Mengy said:
Agreed. I'm still miffed they had the V-rod engine for all that time but never put it into a touring bike. I know dozens of Harley guys who wanted that in the worst way, including myself. What a colossal waste of resources, like with Buell too.

I think I actually read somewhere that Erik Buell was actually involved in the development of the V-rod engine and that it was originally intended for a Buell platform until development was steered into a more cruiser-y direction and the project moved to HD (where it died in that crap bike).

Yep, here it is:

Erik Buel: The second time we had taken a run at a water cooled superbike it was actually going to be using the Revolution engine, it was in the mid '90s we started that project, which wound up being the V-Rod engine and what happened that time was the specifications we needed and the specifications Harley needed just couldn't gel well enough and the Harley one took precedence but the specifications of what we needed were just too different.

Kneeslider: A number of people were wondering about whether you had ever considered the Revolution engine …

Erik Buell: We actually started that project.

Kneeslider: Really? I don't think a lot of people know that.

Erik Buell: Yep.

https://thekneeslider.com/erik-buell-interview/

Deleted member 15497 · Jan 20, 2019

Need some advice from UK people.

I am buying my dads VFR400R off him in February, but I don't want to insure it until April.
How do I go about SORNing it as I wont have the logbook for a week or whatever until it arrives, and I cant tax it because I wont be insured.

Dougald · Jan 20, 2019

I'm pretty sure when you SORN it online, you can give the number from the new keeper section of the V5C in order to do so, instead of the tax reminder reference. When you transfer ownership, use that to apply online for a SORN the same day

Deleted member 15497 · Jan 20, 2019

Nice one, that makes sense

Fallout-NL · Jan 20, 2019

Very cool bike that VFR. Should definitely stay in the family :D

Dougald · Jan 20, 2019

My old downstairs neighbour used to have one. Lovely bikes

Deleted member 15497 · Jan 20, 2019

Yeah, I love them, used to have one years ago.
He also had an RVF400R but sold that the other year.

Edit: just checked prices for RVF400s, wow theyve shot up a bit.

Watevaman · Jan 20, 2019

Been a while since I've posted here. I got a new job back in August so I started buying things for the ZRX I've wanted to do to it since buying it back in 2014. List is still growing, but so far I have these items waiting to go on (hard time finding a few days to do work when you'd rather sit at home and relax):

-ZX-11 cams: I have the whole head sitting next to the bike there. A bit hotter and pushes the torque/power curve up until redline, whereas stock cams drop off around 8k RPM. Should be good for 5-7 HP
-Black Widow headers: Gonna pair these stainless steel headers to my current Kerker can. Going to be sending the carbs off to get cleaned and jetted for this and the new air filters.
-Unifilter Foam Pods: Eliminate the airbox and throw on some pods for better airflow.
-Galfer SS clutch line: Replaced the brake lines a few years back with SS lines, just gonna match the clutch line now.
-New radiator hoses: Replacing the current with new OEM hoses. They're probably 19 years old at this point so long overdue.
-Ninja 500 front brake master cylinder: Popular upgrade for the front brakes. Smaller diameter bore, so more lever travel but stronger pressure.
-Arashi Wave rotors: Chinese made front rotors, good feedback from the forums on them so I figured why not? Pairing with new EBC HH pads so hopefully it'll stop better now.

So yeah, with the power increase (looking like it'll go from 95 up to 125-130 hp) and new front brakes, it'll probably feel like a new bike come spring time. I'm hoping to get new suspension bits on there too, probably Bitubo rear shocks and Racetech gold valves in the forks, just gotta wait for some financials to clear.

Gonna be 7F (-14C) tonight so yeah, I'm not itching to get it ready haha. Jealous of all you that are out there riding still. Hope winter goes well for you northern hemisphere folks.

Dougald · Jan 21, 2019

Nice update, that ZRX ages like a fine wine

Microsoft · Jan 21, 2019

It's like 8f or -13c and there's this one guy riding a bike on my commute to work. Just how? Even if we forget about the cold for a bit, what about the random patches of black ice?

Subpar Scrub · Jan 21, 2019

That ZRX is so cool.

Mechanic finished with my bike so I get to pick it up tomorrow! Just needs the new bar-end mirrors put on when they arrive this week.

Briareos · Jan 22, 2019

Microsoft said:
It's like 8f or -13c and there's this one guy riding a bike on my commute to work. Just how? Even if we forget about the cold for a bit, what about the random patches of black ice?

Yeah saw a guy on a Harley the other day and while it was up to like 30F that day, it's till insane to me. -1F last night here, whee.

Microsoft · Jan 22, 2019

Random thing that's on my mind. Often, on the "motorcyclists random acts of kindness" type videos, I see bikers stopping to help push a car. Many calendars ago, I saw one instance where a biker put his foot on the rear bumper and used the motorcycle to push a truck. So I'm wondering if I'm ever in a position to push a vehicle, is doing that viable/easier than pushing a car with your bare hands?

BriareosGAF said:
Yeah saw a guy on a Harley the other day and while it was up to like 30F that day, it's till insane to me. -1F last night here, whee.

Time to move to Florida.

Watevaman · Jan 22, 2019

I feel like pushing it on a bike with your foot is more likely to break your leg or make you drop the bike. Just me though.

Microsoft · Jan 24, 2019

Here is the video I saw. Took a while to find. I suppose self injury is always a possibility.

Subpar Scrub · Jan 25, 2019

Finally finished the bike off, feels much more comfortable with the raised bars and nothing else needs repairs, it's a huge relief really 😌

Rotkehle · Jan 26, 2019

Looks good :)

Dougald · Jan 26, 2019

I like that headlight cover, looks really cool

Gorgeous seat, too!

Microsoft · Jan 26, 2019

Subpar Scrub said:
Finally finished the bike off, feels much more comfortable with the raised bars and nothing else needs repairs, it's a huge relief really 😌

That looks really good. Is the paint stock? What did you do to it?

Subpar Scrub · Jan 26, 2019

Microsoft said:
That looks really good. Is the paint stock? What did you do to it?

Paint is stock but it has a tank cover. As for what I did? Aftermarket seats, sissy bar/rack, slip on exhaust, exhaust wrap, bar raise, chain guard, foot plates, headlight cover, auxiliary charging port, gear indicator, brake and clutch levers, bar end mirrors, fork covers and boots, new front and rear lights, crash bars, new blacked out fuel tank lid... among a few other things I'm probably forgetting.

It's been a bit of a nightmare due to having an obsession for detail, but it's more or less finished in my eyes.

Motorcycle-Era |OT| Two are better than four

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