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Oct 27, 2017
3,730
The Man From Laramie

Of all the Jimmy Stewarts, Western Jimmy Stewart might be the least believable—he's just too skinny/lanky to be a cowboy. But you know what? It doesn't matter because he's one of the best actors of all time. Loved this movie. Anthony Mann sure knew how to shoot em, eh?
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,070
UK
I saw Velvet Buzzsaw and Polar.

I did not like either of these films.

Velvet Buzzsaw should not have had a supernatural horror bent to it. It should have been a satire of the art world.

Polar was just a stupid violent porno without any redeemable qualities.
What did you think of The Square? That was also a satire of the art world.
 

Deleted member 48205

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 30, 2018
1,038
The Night Comes For Us is like someone watched The Raid 1/2 and thought "These movies just don't satisfy my inner sadist enough" and turned the knob all the way up on artery slicing and overall bloodlust with no consideration for how those movies build tension or ramp up fight scenes. Thin scripts i can look past in action movies, but the action has to be great enough to prop the movie up, and i just didn't find it here. The choices made in terms of choreography and where the camera decides to focus feel so consistently savage that it tips over into parody and fetish fairly early on, and becomes monotonous shortly after. With no gimmicks to throw at you beyond that, I don't know what else to take from this. There is a wild spirit beneath the surface, but that as well as the incredibly talented cast of martial artists and stunt people is wasted by a movie more interested in severing the human body.

I'm just about done with this whole post-Old Boy hallway, post-The Raid, post-John Wick generation of action direction brehs.
I was so waiting for this to be over that after what I thought was the final scene I checked how much time was left and was shocked to discover I wasn't even halfway through.

Burning (2018) I really wanted to like it but man most of the movie was such a bore for me. I enjoyed the weirdness, like the question of her cat's existence, him masturbating in her apartment, things like that, but I just don't think the long running time was justified. I was just dozing off for most of the first hour. There's just not reason for this movie to be 150 minutes long. I don't feel like writing anything else. I wish this was better. 3/5

The Favourite (2018) My most anticipated movie of the year by far and it just got released in my country so I finally got to watch it and it was good! I thought the main performances were great, especially Queen Anne and Sarah. If I didn't know beforehand that this is a Yorgos Lanthimos film I don't think I would've ever guessed - It's by far his most "accessible" film, there's a kind of stilted performance you expect to see in his movies which in this case was absent, but I think that's a nice change compared to his other work, and it's exciting to see that he can do this type of movie too. I still like Dogtooth the most, followed by The Lobster, this and lastly The Killing of A Sacred Deer. 4/5

Now I have to catch up on Shoplifters and Spiderman, and then I can finally update my Movie of the year list. Hope I make it before the deadline.
 

Flow

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,340
Florida, USA
I was so waiting for this to be over that after what I thought was the final scene I checked how much time was left and was shocked to discover I wasn't even halfway through.

Burning (2018) I really wanted to like it but man most of the movie was such a bore for me. I enjoyed the weirdness, like the question of her cat's existence, him masturbating in her apartment, things like that, but I just don't think the long running time was justified. I was just dozing off for most of the first hour. There's just not reason for this movie to be 150 minutes long. I don't feel like writing anything else. I wish this was better. 3/5

The Favourite (2018) My most anticipated movie of the year by far and it just got released in my country so I finally got to watch it and it was good! I thought the main performances were great, especially Queen Anne and Sarah. If I didn't know beforehand that this is a Yorgos Lanthimos film I don't think I would've ever guessed - It's by far his most "accessible" film, there's a kind of stilted performance you expect to see in his movies which in this case was absent, but I think that's a nice change compared to his other work, and it's exciting to see that he can do this type of movie too. I still like Dogtooth the most, followed by The Lobster, this and lastly The Killing of A Sacred Deer. 4/5

Now I have to catch up on Shoplifters and Spiderman, and then I can finally update my Movie of the year list. Hope I make it before the deadline.
they will both be out on vod before then.
 

coma

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,573
042. Manhattan Baby (1982, Lucio Fulci) ★★
What a mess. "Birds of darkness, consume me!"

043. Overlord (2018, Julius Avery) ★★★
Fairly average. Wish it got to the zombies faster.

044. ReMastered: The Two Killings of Sam Cooke (2019, Kelly Duane) ★★★
Good primer for people who might not know about his life, but a little too surface level.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,646
Shaft (2000)

This is the kind of movie I would randomly catch multiple times on HBO back during those days. I kinda miss the times when I would zap between TV channels and find some random-ass movie I had never heard about. Those days are dead now, since I basically never watch cable anymore, and browsing through Netflix and such isn't really the same.

Anyway, totally average police drama fluff.
 
Oct 26, 2017
876
Leave No Trace - Granik has an amazing eye. Solid performances from Foster and McKenzie. That being said, maybe it's the length, but it drags. 2.5 / 5
 
Ganja & Hess (rewatch): Looking back on my original review of this, I'm actually surprised at how much I wound up dinging this film for stuff that now feels a bit exaggerated on my part. Watching it now, thanks to the helpful consideration on the part of Horror Noire, revealed a world of tragedy that I didn't quite grasp then, both for Hess being unable to love anything about himself, especially his race, and Ganja being doomed to fall in love with men who aren't capable of matching her passion for life. It's still a rough film in terms of its filmmaking prowess, especially with it being nearly 2 hours long, but it's so full of indelible imagery and powerful themes that the film winds up making up for a lot of lost ground as a result. It's a shame that Bill Gunn never was able to do more with films on his own terms, since he was really onto something here that more than 45 years later still feels way ahead of its time.
 

JetSetSoul

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,185
Ganja & Hess (rewatch): Looking back on my original review of this, I'm actually surprised at how much I wound up dinging this film for stuff that now feels a bit exaggerated on my part. Watching it now, thanks to the helpful consideration on the part of Horror Noire, revealed a world of tragedy that I didn't quite grasp then, both for Hess being unable to love anything about himself, especially his race, and Ganja being doomed to fall in love with men who aren't capable of matching her passion for life. It's still a rough film in terms of its filmmaking prowess, especially with it being nearly 2 hours long, but it's so full of indelible imagery and powerful themes that the film winds up making up for a lot of lost ground as a result. It's a shame that Bill Gunn never was able to do more with films on his own terms, since he was really onto something here that more than 45 years later still feels way ahead of its time.
Made a note to watch this during Horror Noire, looks like super intriguing stuff. It stuck out to me most in their selection.
 

meowdi gras

Member
Feb 24, 2018
12,605
Ganja & Hess (rewatch): Looking back on my original review of this, I'm actually surprised at how much I wound up dinging this film for stuff that now feels a bit exaggerated on my part. Watching it now, thanks to the helpful consideration on the part of Horror Noire, revealed a world of tragedy that I didn't quite grasp then, both for Hess being unable to love anything about himself, especially his race, and Ganja being doomed to fall in love with men who aren't capable of matching her passion for life. It's still a rough film in terms of its filmmaking prowess, especially with it being nearly 2 hours long, but it's so full of indelible imagery and powerful themes that the film winds up making up for a lot of lost ground as a result. It's a shame that Bill Gunn never was able to do more with films on his own terms, since he was really onto something here that more than 45 years later still feels way ahead of its time.
Now if only they would finally release Gunn's debut, Stop!
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
Rampage (2018) - Preposterous, goofy fun. I suspect there were probably a few major changes in reshoots, especially how the ending goes down.

Near the climax The Rock straight up gets shot at close range and goes down. A few minutes later he pops back up like "she missed the vital organs" and proceeds to jump around, shoot, and fight and shit for 15 minutes like nothing happened. I'm pretty sure this thing originally wound down in a very different way
 
Oct 26, 2017
876
Daylight's End - yet another in a long line of post-apocalyptic trash. This thing is a slog to get through. The shootouts last twice as long as they need to. At some point, my dog had to go out, so we paused the movie and realized there was still another 30 minutes to go. Barely useful as background noise while doing something else.
 
Made a note to watch this during Horror Noire, looks like super intriguing stuff. It stuck out to me most in their selection.
Anyone that lumped it in with the rest of the blaxploitation set probably did that on the synopsis alone and didn't actually see the film. It's highly experimental filmmaking from beginning to end and gives close to zero concessions for anyone expecting to be thrilled by a straightforward vampire film. I can't guarantee that most folks would like it, but at a minimum, it's a fascinating glimpse at art house cinema from the 70s that isn't some kind of psychedelic freak-out.
 
Cold War (2018): Pawel Pawlikoswki seems to have found his niche, that being, black-and-white Academy ratio dramas about Poland in the immediate postwar period. I liked this, though the "for my parents" dedication at the end reads as almost blackly funny considering the ending the movie arrives at.
 

Allstar

Member
Feb 9, 2019
53
I finally got the chance to see Ceylan's 'The Wild Pear Tree' yesterday. I loved it and thought it was great but as with his previous 'Winter Sleep' I do think it could have been shortened at times.

The lead is good but his performance finds more strength over time. It's a pretty talky movie that touches on such a huge variety of subjects throughout the lead's encounters that somehow all make sense through the lense of self-reflection of the lead's perspective.

The way the entire last hour culminates to make all the different previous vignettes worth it and ties them together is wonderful. A very visually and literally poetic movie that feels like Ceylan doing a new spin on what he's known for. Ergüçlü's scene is my favorite, enigmatic and full of magical realism that's deeply touching. Hope to see her in more above-the-line projects.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,730
Blue Velvet

Hard to watch this and not feel like it's an inferior version of the same subject matter Lynch would go on to mine in Twin Peaks and Mulholland, but by the end it differentiates itself enough that I still really liked it. Cast is great, young Kyle and Laura are swoon-worthy, and Hopper is always a treat.
 

Deleted member 3542

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,889
I've been slacking on this thread, so here's some Laurel and Hardy reviews I just shit out a minute ago that I watched on TCM:

Swiss Miss

The worst thing you can do to a Laurel and Hardy movie is limit how much you see Laurel and Hardy. By this point in their career (late 30s), Laurel and Hardy could do whenever they wanted. This was firmly them in their prime - so you would think the final result here would be a classic.

It's not. In fact, it's probably the weakest Laurel and Hardy movie I've seen. When the duo is on screen, it's great. Even if they reboot a Music Box scenario and try to get a piano across a bridge, it's still them with utterly perfect comedic timing. I'll forgive the bad gorilla gags as well, their timing and goofs more than make up for something that tired.

Then there's the rest of the movie. Something of a half-focused plot about a composer, his wife and an inn that all feels like a completely different movie (mostly because Laurel and Hardy rarely cross paths with them) and it also fills most of the 70 minute running time. It's as though they took a Laurel and Hardy short then plugged in this other stuff and the result is an utterly dull movie that would have worked better as a short.

2 out of 5


Sons of the Desert

A classic in every sense of the word, and possibly Laurel and Hardy's best film, Sons of the Desert is full of some of the best wit the duo put out there. The banter and dialogue is top notch, sight gags and physical comedy (notably when Hardy is pretending to be sick) is them at their peak and everything feels so fresh and new with some of these jokes being redone for later films.

All Stan and Oliver want to do is go to a convention in Chicago. That's a simple set up, but here they spend most of it not actually there or even going there, it's them coming up with a scheme to trick their wives to letting them attend. With Mae Busch yet again playing Oliver's wife, something she did in a dozen or so movies and shorts, the crew is just a well oiled machine. If someone wanted to get into Laurel and Hardy, this is probably one of the first recommendations I would make.

I hadn't seen Sons of the Desert in some time, revisiting it just made me realize how perfect it really is. Do I personally prefer Flying Dueces and Block-Heads? Sure, but that's like picking your favorite child in the end.

5 out of 5


A Chump at Oxford

A Chump at Oxford is a movie I had always seen parts of but never as a whole. There's a reason for that: it's like Saturday Night Live in that there are a lot of great hits, but some pretty mediocre to just bad misses as well. It's a later-ish Laurel and Hardy picture, but also only one year after The Flying Deuces so the inconsistency in the story and comedy is simultaneously that much more noticeable and that much more disappointing.

The "chump" aspect is kind of a misnomer; that aspect of the story doesn't really come up until the last 15 minutes. Yet that might be the best aspect because, like Sons of the Desert, the path getting there is probably the funniest moments as we follow Stan and Ollie through various routines and jobs until they eventually get to Oxford. There, though, it starts to take a downturn as we deal with pretty low-rate gags like a ghost some frat boys (or some sort of scholarly parallel to being utter douchebags) scare them with and Stan and Ollie do their best Abbot and Costello impression and run around scared - not really saying or doing anything funny, but at least there's action, right?

The final gag, the "chump," is nice because it allows Stan Laurel to do something he really doesn't do as his character counterpart. It's a different kind of dialouge-heavy routine at the expense of Oliver Hardy but nonetheless it's a memorable one even if his scenes are limited and the finale just a big mess of more "action" of people jumping into a pool. It's overall a solid movie but we, and probably the duo know, they've done better (Saps at Sea, the last Hal Roach produced movie, came out the same year leaving the peak Roach years behind).

3 out of 5
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,730
Dressed to Kill

You can feel De Palma's horniness radiating off this bad boy like a hot furnace. Does it woefully misunderstand trans identity? I assume so, and if anyone wants to trash it for that go ahead. But it's just so fun. The museum scene is some next level stuff, the fact that it leads into a scene of a man going down on a woman in a taxi is just the cherry on top. Maybe it's because I don't hold Psycho in an exalted regard (not that isn't a great movie), but this just worked for me. Plus the score rules.
 

Bookoo

Member
Nov 3, 2017
968
I just saw They Shall Not Grow Old and was blown away. It was incredible what Peter Jackson and team were able to do with that footage and it's a shame that it doesn't seem like it will be in theaters all that long.

Easy documentary to recommend and the 3D was quite good as well.
 

Roge_NES

Member
Feb 18, 2018
672
Alita: Battle Angel

Fun, full of action, fights and very well done CGI.
This is a must watch for fans of anime, the story is a bit simple but it gets the job done.
 
Bones: Another one featured in Horror Noire! It would be fair to say that this one doesn't have particularly grand ambitions beyond being a teen-friendly scare fest, but there is some interest here with the affectation for blaxploitation films being built right into it, right down the supernatural revenge plot. But that right there is where the problems start for this, as there's a sense of this being way too slick to feel like anything other than an imitation, especially when you have a very similar film like J.D.'s Revenge out there that is a genuine article and despite its own issues that I had with it, sets out to do quite a bit more than be a ho-hum revenge plot mixed through the filter of Freddy Kruger. There's really not much in the way of commentary on the kind of man Jimmy Bones was, and it even gets to the point where he doesn't even feel like a gangster with how little we see of his criminal life, making his actions feel quite neutered and his initial punishment rather undeserved. And, well, Snoop Dogg is a lot of things, but an actor surely isn't one of them, as his naturally photogenic self has to do more than pose here, and there's really not much more to him other than his public persona that was already well-worn by this point, leaving him with flatly delivered one-liners and a stiffness to how he carries himself physically that doesn't strike much of any kind of fear or respect as his powers grow. There is some fun to be had with how absurdly off the rails the plot gets once Bones is resurrected and it turns into a kind of strange knockoff of A Nightmare on Elm Street's mythology with the bizarre introduction of a demonic realm where Bones must take the... souls, heads, bodies, whatever it is to appease whatever it is that granted him his powers, leading to a surplus of special effects that include but not limited to a lead getting maggots projectile vomited on them not one, not twice, but three times over the course of the film. Goofy special effects extravaganza that it turns into, it's not enough to overcome the major issues it has with appealing to anyone in particular, as it's not giving anyone enough of what they want out of a project like this: the kills aren't particularly clever or well shot, the characters are too mediocre to enjoy either their deaths or their attempts at being likable, the story has been done better and there's just not enough wattage with any of the actors to propel this film much past the point of being just good enough to make it to the end, as it will be quickly forgotten the following morning.
 

Borgnine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,160
Saw Jurassic Park with the score played live by a symphony orchestra. It was an ok experience, the audio quality of the dialogue and soundtrack was pretty bad, I guess because they're not really set up for that. And it was super loud so that the score would be at the same apparent volume as normal. It was a lot of fun seeing it with a couple thousand people though. The place went wild during the Goldblum glamour shot. Definitely not the usual symphony crowd, a lot more fat nerds in t-shirts by themselves.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,595
The Old Man & the Gun
If this really is Robert Redford's swan song as an actor, it's a good final note go out on. Although it's a pretty straightforward story, David Lowery's direction and Redford's performance give it a lot of heft. I also dug Casey Affleck's role, which played against the typical 'obsessive detective who chases his man to the ends of the earth' trope. Also the soundtrack is unexpectedly great. All in all, a pretty enjoyable sort-of caper that doubles as a fitting capstone to Redford's long career of playing charismatic criminals.

That Guy Dick Miller
Watched this in honor of Miller's passing a couple weeks ago. While it's a pretty perfunctory doc on its own, and feels a little cheap and rough around the edges at times, the anecdotes about Miller and the tons of archival Corman film footage that have been compiled here are a lot of fun to watch. Seeing how close he and his wife were, though, is pretty sad to think about now.
6/10

Monty Python and the Holy Grail
I'm pretty sure this was the first time I sat down and watched this whole thing from start to finish. Given Monty Python's 50-year reputation, it feels dumb to come away with "Hey this was pretty funny, I can see why people like these guys so much." But it was! And I do! This film seemed like the most accessible gateway to watching more Python throughout the year, but even on its own merits it's pretty enjoyable with some great bits and cool meta, fourth-wall-breaking stuff.
7/10

Burning
Is there still time to join the pile-on? Because man this movie was a disappointment. A very good-looking film for sure (even if all the twilight 'magic hour' shots ended up feeling overdone), and Steven Yuen is magnetic every time he's on a screen, but by and large there's nothing to this. I'm fine with movies ditching plot if it's replaced with some kind of meaningful exploration of its characters, but the two supporting characters are ciphers and the lead is a nobody. There is nothing to him. I haven't read the original story, but knowing some other Murakami works, I imagine this was a short story that probably read far more compellingly on the page in part thanks to its brevity. Stretching out such a thin story and thin characters overs 2.5 hours here is insane. There isn't nearly enough to the film to support that run time. I do appreciate the restraint of, despite the obvious implications, never outright
showing Ben as a serial killer.
But otherwise, a pretty big letdown for me.
5/10
 

Allstar

Member
Feb 9, 2019
53
There's absolutely a lot of meaningful character exploration in 'Burning', though. It is 'inspired' by the short story and what the short story is about, it's not the same story.

If you think that the movie is trying to imply
Ben is a serial killer
I pleeeease beg you to watch it again with a more open mindset.

I'm currently writing somewhat of an analysis about the movie, might post it here afterwards. There are so many themes from social inheritance and inherited rage, male rage and envy, subversions of male control over female narratives in fiction and reality, Western influence on SK and its impact on the perception of social classes, psychological entrapment's effect on individual perception of rational events, identity vs self-aspiraton. And the movie's enigmatic take is giving them all depth instead of blurring them by making strong implications about the lead's unreliable mind and point of view in context of all those themes.

Neither Ben, nor Hae-Min are only ciphers, especially the latter because she's given her very own narrative which reads strongly as a subversion of the manic pixie dream girl
who actually gets her revenge and the opportunity to take control of her own agency and narrative by the end
. There is an argument for Ben being a cipher, depending on which interpretation angle you choose to read the movie from
does he even exist/is he only a part of the lead's own identity as a sign for an internal struggle of different male egos; is he a symbol of inherited social wealth that liberates the lower social classes or only further traps them (hence the movie's constant visual framing of light as hope to both Hae-Min/Jung-Soo, the observation tower and the enigma of the well); is he invented as part of Jung-Soo's novel as a literary manifestation of all of Jung-Soo's own anger and despise; etc.
but none of those ciphers are hollow but essential for understanding both Hae-Min's and Jung-Soo's arcs.
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
Damn this thread really did a u turn on burning, myself included. I blame Borgnine tho

Now hopefully this doesn't happen to Shoplifters or I'll have to start reporting y'all
 

Peru

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,124
Burning is far and away the best movie I saw in 2018. To me it's a level above my other favorites of the year.

Talking about that movie "ditching the plot" suggests the only point of reference is a maximalist blockbuster. The movie moves forward at a decent clip, has several plots involving the main character - overlapping each other, speaking pretty clearly about privilege of class and sex -- and that's before we get the simmering, intense crime mystery, which plays into all of the above anxieties, and all that before the gleeful pleasure of sitting through Yeun's portrayal of the supernaturally at ease Ben.

Presenting characters being ciphers as a black and white negative thing, I just don't understand it. Their ambiguities are not just their for their own sake, they ask questions of the viewers.

Quoth the director

So, while the audience is made to follow Jong-su throughout the film, I wanted the audience at the same time to distance themselves from this character and look at him from an objective point of view. I also wanted to make it clear that the emotions and the thoughts that Jong-su has may not be right. I wanted the audience to sort of feel that doubt and suspicion, and be aware of how unreliable this character may be. For example, when Hae-mi dances against the sunset, afterwards Jong-su tells her that she's a whore. In other scenes Jong-su shows a very passive attitude, and even in the last scene, where he commits the murder — that may or may not have been a part of reality, but I wanted the audience to follow Jong-su's narrative and put themselves in his perspective and feel his confusion and emotions, but at the same time distance themselves and look at him critically.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/oscars-interview-lee-chang-dong-burning-1167869

I think he also beautifully sums up some of the driving force of the movie's incredibly tense mood:

it seems that today, people all over the world, regardless of their nationality, religion, and social status, are angry for different reasons. The rage of young people is a particularly pressing problem. The millennials living in Korea today will be the first generation that are worse off than their parents' generation. They feel that the future will not change significantly. Not able to find the object to direct their rage at, they feel a sense of debilitation. This film is about young people who feel impotent, with rage bottled up inside them.
 

Allstar

Member
Feb 9, 2019
53
Burning is far and away the best movie I saw in 2018. To me it's a level above my other favorites of the year.

Talking about that movie "ditching the plot" suggests the only point of reference is a maximalist blockbuster. The movie moves forward at a decent clip, has several plots involving the main character - overlapping each other, speaking pretty clearly about privilege of class and sex -- and that's before we get the simmering, intense crime mystery, which plays into all of the above anxieties, and all that before the gleeful pleasure of sitting through Yeun's portrayal of the supernaturally at ease Ben.

Presenting characters being ciphers as a black and white negative thing, I just don't understand it. Their ambiguities are not just their for their own sake, they ask questions of the viewers.

Quoth the director

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/oscars-interview-lee-chang-dong-burning-1167869

I think he also beautifully sums up some of the driving force of the movie's incredibly tense mood:
Adding to Chang-Dong's quote you put in spoilers:

I'm confused what else people thought the cat was for? Chang-Dong is amazing at how he keeps driving us further into Jong-su's mind all while throwing all these questions and realities at us that he's completely unreliable. Not only helps it understanding him emotionally and his emotional journey completely but it's also commentary on the procedure of narrative writing in general which always puts us into perspectives to ask sympathy and empathy of the audience for whoever is leading that fiction. 'Get Out' used that same fact recently to great effect, and 'Burning' is holding the mirror up to make us understand the manipulation of fictional writing but how it takes on similar effect in our real life narratives, as well.
 

Deleted member 48205

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 30, 2018
1,038
I have to say I didn't think about this at all. Do we have any evidence that this is the case? That Ben isn't real? Or is it your interpretation ? It's an interesting take for sure.
Maybe i'm just a dummy, but my reading on Ben was that he was the movie's red Herring, and that the twist was that he was just a normal rich guy that actually liked the main character only to be shockingly killed by him in the end for no actual reason but the main characters delusion. And about the girl, I thought she really did leave, as implied by her family when the main character visits their restaurant. Do you have a different take on that too? Maybe I was taking everything too literally?
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,595
Characters being ambiguous is fine. Characters being thin to the point of nothingness is boring. And to be clear, my biggest issue with the Burning's character work is regarding Jong-su. He is an empty, dull character. There's nothing to him! He exists as a theme, not as an actual person. And that approach in and of itself doesn't even necessarily have to be a bad one, but it is a boring one when all three main characters are written that way.

Peru said:
Talking about that movie "ditching the plot" suggests the only point of reference is a maximalist blockbuster.

I didn't frame it as a problem. Like I said, I'm plenty fine with a movie forgoing plot if it wants to soak in being a character piece instead. But I found this movie's character work to be extremely thin.

Presenting characters being ciphers as a black and white negative thing, I just don't understand it. Their ambiguities are not just their for their own sake, they ask questions of the viewers.

Characters being ciphers isn't necessarily a negative thing. To me it is a negative in this context because there's no deeper, well-drawn character to offset the other two main characters being walking enigmas.

I thought it was pretty clear that Ben wasn't a serial killer after all and the main character was simply delusional.
The bathroom drawer seems pretty clearly to me to be a collection of trophies. Plus not actually burning greenhouses, etc. I do think the more important point isn't whether or not Ben was a serial killer though, but Jong-su's own state of mind by the end of it.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
3,730
Maybe it's because I'm a loser, but I related greatly to Jong-su. Thankfully I don't have his rage, but I thought he was a compelling character. He's a poor, emotionally stunted young adult trying to survive in a world full of rich and successful people who were predestined to be rich and successful. Dude wants to be a writer, but never writes. Relatable AF. He's like a character in a Wim Wenders movie.
 

Allstar

Member
Feb 9, 2019
53
I have to say I didn't think about this at all. Do we have any evidence that this is the case? That Ben isn't real? Or is it your interpretation ? It's an interesting take for sure.
Maybe i'm just a dummy, but my reading on Ben was that he was the movie's red Herring, and that the twist was that he was just a normal rich guy that actually liked the main character only to be shockingly killed by him in the end for no actual reason but the main characters delusion. And about the girl, I thought she really did leave, as implied by her family when the main character visits their restaurant. Do you have a different take on that too? Maybe I was taking everything too literally?
It's not the interpretation that I'm going with when reading this movie but I think there's the possibility and I like how it emphasizes some points the movie makes further. Of course, on a narrative level, Ben exists. But he only exists, if you believe the entire story, as it happens, is real. The constant, sometimes maybe too-obvious, commentary on novelism (Faulkner, whose Barn Burning short story is also somewhat brought into this), his father being perfect as the protagonist for a novel as pointed out by the lawyer but really it's Jong-Su who shares the same traits, reality vs fiction, etc. there's an argument to be made, imho, that everything happening is a figment of Jong-Su's imagination.

Hae-Min would be a symbol of his male lust and an externalization of the frustrations he has about not being able to live out said lust, Ben as a stand-in for Jong-Su's envy and deeply felt rage towards the existing social class structure, as well as both of them combining to say something about how said class structure has an impact on his other male desires and lusts.
I mean, at the same time, you could argue that both are stand-ins for those emotions whether the narrative is real or not, but seeing how 'Burning' almost constantly plays up the reality vs fiction and novel-elements I wouldn't throw that interpretation out of the window. I just despise that it does sort of reduce Hae-Min and Ben to ciphers and I'm not sure I'd buy that Jong-Su's own mind would come up with a female arc where the woman actually gets what she wants. But if you do choose to read it as part of his emotional journey it could be a sign of rare self-awareness and attempt of atonement for his and his generation's behavior towards women (same could be said about the final scene which is more likely to be the actual "novel" part, anyway).

Oh and I don't think Ben actually liked Jong-Su as much as he was amused by Jong-Su's antics and played with them for his own entertainment. He's clearly bored and devoid of feeling extreme emotion (actual sadness, joy, only envy comes up one time caused by Hae-Min) because of his life's dullness given by his privileges, so I mostly read it that way. It also kinda plays into his barn burning metaphor, if you think about it.

Personally, I think Hae-Min disappeared, like you said. She's clearly still upset about how Jong-Su (and probably other men from her childhood) treated her, so her first act of female control is the power play of making him jealous through Ben. She later plays it up by phoning him before her disappearance to further pierce into his mind, confusion (that she always enables) and obvious anger. She talks about how "dying is too scary" so she'd rather "disappear like she never existed" and then her brilliant mime scene about forgetting the orange is there in first place so all that leads to me say that disappearance is a more natural conclusion than her being dead.

I do still think about how much her disappearance is also a power play on Ben. There's constant symbolism of how the wealthy social class is also abusing women like her for their entertainment and pleasure and she seems to have gotten into Ben's mind, as he states one time and her "The Great Hunger" dance could be the start of that. Maybe you have a take on that?
 

Allstar

Member
Feb 9, 2019
53
The bathroom drawer seems pretty clearly to me to be a collection of trophies. Plus not actually burning greenhouses, etc. I do think the more important point isn't whether or not Ben was a serial killer though, but Jong-su's own state of mind by the end of it.
They're trophies, but they could just as well be trophies of his "burnt greenhouses", which is never said to be murdering women. It can be a metaphor on his personal use and abuse of lower-class women with abandoned lives, friends and families for his own pleasure to spark a hint of excitement and emotional high to balance out the dullness of his life and a new, albeit short-lived high.
 

andrew

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,906
I'm not sure all the different readings of Ben are as beneficial to the film as the pure and simple fact of how well yeun embodies the bored, yawning, smirking, untouchable rich while jong-su embodies the boring, stunted, impotent lower middle class.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,730
I'm not sure all the different readings of Ben are as beneficial to the film as the pure and simple fact of how well yeun embodies the bored, yawning, smirking, untouchable rich while jong-su embodies the boring, stunted, impotent lower middle class.
Bingo. Jong-su does what he does because Ben is rich. It really is as simple as that. That's what makes the movie brilliant, all the Haemi stuff is extraneous to the fact. The Gatsby line is all the proof you need.
 
Haunters: The Art of the Scare: A really cool little glimpse in the world of haunted house attractions and the hard work that goes into them, along with a fair bit of explanation as to the attraction of these events are, both for the haunter and haunted. I was a big fan of the fact that this focused more on the non-professional haunts, as there's a level of ingenuity that goes into those that impresses me far more since they have just as much imagination as the theme park extravaganzas and so much less to work with to bring them to life. Of course, this documentary doesn't shy away from the growing schism that's occurred when the traditional haunts have had to compete with the extreme haunts, and even the extreme haunts have some big issues with one of the subject covered here with the McKaney Manor, who goes even further than they do with their lack of safe words and eagerness to do just about anything physical to its patrons that don't result in marks and bruising. The documentary puts a human face on all of its subjects and doesn't shy away from their personal hardships, but it's hard not to come off with the impression that Russ McKaney is going way too far with his haunt, especially with his fetishistic desire to capture all of those experiences on film, and not just because it makes for good promotion. Feeling icky about his part in this documentary is decidedly the point, but it is worth considering if that kind of approach to scaring people does set you at unease, as it will surely result in goosebumps for those not so intrigued about why he does what he does. For everyone else, though, their enthusiasm is far more rooted in less aggressive thrills, and despite some rather shocking little glimpses into past trauma that managed to get dug up, they all seem like such sweet people that want to give someone a nice little walk on the wild side of entertainment. This must work really well to sell someone on the idea of attending a haunt, as I'm honestly thinking about wanting to go to one now, even though it's February.
 

TheAndyMan

Banned
Feb 11, 2019
1,082
Utah
The Conjuring
Based on reviews on RT, I went into this movie with expectations of it being pretty scary. I wouldn't describe it as scary, more like "creepy" in some parts. Somewhat disappointing. Soundtrack? Gosh, I only remember the "standard creepy music when somethings about to happen music".
3/5
 

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,924
Werk Ohne Autor (Never Look Away)

It's starting to feel like The Life of Others was a lucky shot for director Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck. His new movie isn't as bad as The Tourist apparently is (never seen it), but it's far removed from the brilliance of his feature film debute. Werk Ohne Autor zooms in on the life of a fictional artist (based on the life of a real one), from his childhood in Nazi Germany, to his work as a communist painter in East-Germany to his escape to the West and search fro his own artistic voice. It's epic in scope, spanning decades and taking 188 minutes to come to its conclusion. The length is not an issue though. The movie flies by at a brisk pace and never feels as long as he is. The problem is that it's a very uneven movie, which doesn't always find the right rhytm or balance and above all, doesn't seem to know what it wants to say. As a portrait of Germany it paints it all in too broad strokes, and as a personal drama it doesn't cut to deep. Some plot threads feel underdeveloped or feel like they just disapear interely. It doesn't help there is a sort of twist which feels absolutely proposturous (but is based on real events!). The end result has some good, some mediocre and a few bad bits.

Mission: Impossible Fallout (rewatch)

Yeah, still the pinacle of modern action movie making. An engaging story, fun characters and absolutely batshit crazy stunts and action.

Can You Ever Forgive Me

McCarthy is great as Lee Israel and lifts up what is essentialy a by-the-books portrait of a real life person. It's a fun watch, but it never grows beyond the material. Above all, I found it strange that a movie with such a delightfully cynical protagonist, has so little teeth.
 

Sinder

Banned
Jul 24, 2018
7,576
Cold War was really fucking good.

Also, I've come around on Burning after resting with it for a week. The ambiguity while utterly maddening at first is why the film and it's atmosphere stuck with me. Makes it feel more like real life does. I think the wild interpretations of Ben here are off the mark, though. He was a sociopathic Gatsby and most certaintly real.
 
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Allstar

Member
Feb 9, 2019
53
I don't disagree about Ben, at all, and I even specified that it's not how I read it. I do find those other takes interesting as an emphasis of the movie's themes, regardless.
 

andrew

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,906
Haunters: The Art of the Scare: A really cool little glimpse in the world of haunted house attractions and the hard work that goes into them, along with a fair bit of explanation as to the attraction of these events are, both for the haunter and haunted. I was a big fan of the fact that this focused more on the non-professional haunts, as there's a level of ingenuity that goes into those that impresses me far more since they have just as much imagination as the theme park extravaganzas and so much less to work with to bring them to life. Of course, this documentary doesn't shy away from the growing schism that's occurred when the traditional haunts have had to compete with the extreme haunts, and even the extreme haunts have some big issues with one of the subject covered here with the McKaney Manor, who goes even further than they do with their lack of safe words and eagerness to do just about anything physical to its patrons that don't result in marks and bruising. The documentary puts a human face on all of its subjects and doesn't shy away from their personal hardships, but it's hard not to come off with the impression that Russ McKaney is going way too far with his haunt, especially with his fetishistic desire to capture all of those experiences on film, and not just because it makes for good promotion. Feeling icky about his part in this documentary is decidedly the point, but it is worth considering if that kind of approach to scaring people does set you at unease, as it will surely result in goosebumps for those not so intrigued about why he does what he does. For everyone else, though, their enthusiasm is far more rooted in less aggressive thrills, and despite some rather shocking little glimpses into past trauma that managed to get dug up, they all seem like such sweet people that want to give someone a nice little walk on the wild side of entertainment. This must work really well to sell someone on the idea of attending a haunt, as I'm honestly thinking about wanting to go to one now, even though it's February.
Have you seen The American Scream? Similar idea, doc about three families leading their own haunted house attractions in Mass. with varying levels of professionalism. Made by Troll 2/Best Worst Movie's Michael Stephenson. Well worth a watch
 

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
Shaun of the Dead - Manages the rare feat of being self aware of genre cliches without being a know it all, and also being a damn fine version of its somewhat mocked subject. There's a sweet sincerity to its gags and character building, a commitment to economical storytelling and narrative cohesion. So many things are played as jokes in and of themselves(the hyper active editing, whip pans, zooms, montages) but at the very same time they're honestly pushing the comic energy of the movie forward.

A lot of this comes about because Edgar Wright is at the very top when it comes to utilizing the formal elements of cinema to build his movie. I don't think it's hyperbole to put him up there with Tati in his comedic timing, precise editing rhythms and usage of the frame. There's two long takes, for example, of following Shaun to the conviencve store to buy some junk food. He's completely oblivious to his surroundings, operating in a mechanical routine way that matches his sad apathetic lifestyle. It's choreographed in just a way that you notice all the environment and the people operating in it, even if Shaun doesn't. They replay this scene again, except it's all fucked up with blood and broken windows and zombies waaay in the back of the frame. Shaun's obliviousness to the steadily escalating zombie apocalypse is funny, but it also works as an excellent dramatic visual for how far things have gone, and the zombie plot is definitely about to kick in what has mostly been a light comedy.

There's a really great infectious energy in the second half of this that's so good, I'm willingly to overlook how the Romantic side of this romantic comedy is underdeveloped, or how the movie doesn't really end so much as stop when it's exhausted all its character deaths and paid off those set-ups(there's a honest to god Chekhov's Gun hanging about the third act and definitely goes off). For its clever construction, unique marriage of tones, and honest to God visual storytelling acumen, Shaun of the Dead still sits at the top of Edgar Wright's filmography.