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Lmao no, but it definitely looks like MS thought that the standard RDNA2 features that AMD had on offer were a good fit for them while Sony seems to have had their own plans which seemingly resulted in omitting standard RDNA2 features in favor of their own customized solutions.
That's not how it works in any development to be fair. I work with iOS for example, and despite all our devices run at the same OS, QA still needs to test each one. In game dev is just worse, since you have more things to test and performance matters more. No matter what you do, one more device just means one more target to test and you can believe sometimes one thing will broke in one for some weird reason.
I think as well MS developed the RDNA 2.0 features alongside AMD for the Direct X 12 Ultra API whereas those features are not compatible with the PS5's API. So MS and AMD made the new features together and MS made their own stuff too (machine learning) and licensed (Dolby Atmos and Vision) whereas Sony by nature of not running Direct X had to customize. AMD makes PC parts first and foremost and Windows 10 is the most prevalent, and Xbox runs off the same architecture (the X stands for DirectX) so it makes sense.
Yea, I confused it with Maneater which is getting RT post launch.
Even if they don't I would guess those features won't be huge advantages. Sony has faster IO so that could wipe of some of the SRS advantage.
My point being, both consoles are pretty powerful so I would imagine the games would look and perform equally apart from pixel peepers.
Did you watch the presentation? AMD used Microsoft's DX12 solutions to build RDNA 2. Almost everything they talked about was DX12.
Thanks for the clarification. Got worried there. It's my benchmark title.
Rosario Leonardi: "I know you are curious, but I am legally bound and I cannot say anything that has not been made public. As you probably know, the architecture of PS5 is a middle ground between RDNA1 and RDNA2, with unique characteristics. Even PlayStation 4 Pro was a sort of hybrid between GCN2 and 4 ".
Based on the PS4 Pro reference, it sounds like Sony used RDNA1 but implemented certain RDNA2 features, resulting in what Mr Leonardi called a middle ground between the two, like they did previously with PS4 Pro with GCN2 GPU with additions borrowed from the Polaris microarchitecture.
Oh it's not just this one, he has tweeted MANY unprofessional things throughout this entire year. And just so you know, I'll be getting Xbox Series X and PS5 on launch day, I have 3 years of Gamepass stacked up and I'll be getting several third parties (Cyberpunk, Yakuza, DIRT 5) on Xbox Series X - just so you know I'm not console warring or anything. I just dislike how Greenberg conducts himself as a marketing lead for a major console.
As the marketing lead - I would suspect he is largely also involved with the @xbox tweet too, anyway.
Agreed and I'm also primarily Xbox. Maybe he's excellent at behind the scenes management but the stuff he does and says publicly makes my skin crawl at times with how cringey it gets.
Xbox has a pretty excellent social media team, he should let somebody else take over as the face of the brand and just be an executive.
So...Sony doesn't use direct X (obviously) and have their own custom solutions to achieve RDNA2. And because someone somewhere has determined "full" support requires direct X, it means MS can claim its the "only" console with it?...hmmm...yeah, I don't think we'll be seeing much in the way of visual differences at all tbh.
There were a lot of clues that led us here but I generally haven't engaged for a couple of reasons. In order for these features (and others) to be leveraged, devs need time with the tools and generally need to plan to use them early on. That's why you see massive jumps in quality around year 3 most console cycles. If these features and the tool sets to support them were mature on PC, I'd expect devs to hit the ground running faster. This gen, the tools are further behind the hardware than what's standard. As it stands...by the time devs start to leverage them, we're going to be anticipating mid gen refreshes that will have all these features and maybe a little more.
It's a feel-good thing to hear your primary platform has stronger hardware but historical evidence shows it won't mean a ton if you plan to bail for a mid-gen refresh as soon as possible. Talent and tools matter a lot more.
I'd argue the real benefit to Xbox is the fact that their 1st party devs will be learning and sharing how to leverage these features. By the time the mid gen refreshes hit, they should be able to hit the ground runnning.
It's a feel-good thing to hear your primary platform has stronger hardware but historical evidence shows it won't mean a ton if you plan to bail for a mid-gen refresh as soon as possible. Talent and tools matter a lot more.
I'd argue the real benefit to Xbox is the fact that their 1st party devs will be learning and sharing how to leverage these features. By the time the mid gen refreshes hit, they should be able to hit the ground runnning.
AMD explicitly said today they've been working with MS to ensure RDNA2 was DX12U compliant. If they weren't, they would be behind what the Series X and Series S are since getting the DX12U badge means the GPU must support VRS, mesh shaders, sampler feedback and DXR, all of which are parts of the Xbox Series S/X GPUs.
Ofcourse it's going to be about dx12 when it's about AMDs upcoming GPUs. It's aimed at the PC market.
It makes total sense that the XsX is using standard RDNA2 because with their new API it will pretty much be one big platform for their games. We know their API is aimed at this.
Sony is doing their own thing as their platform is pretty much just the PlayStation. Though they are starting to focus more on PC aswell. We also know Sony has been working closely with AMD on RDNA2. This might be because of their specific needs of RDNA2 when it comes to customizations.
Anyways it's all speculation at this point.
Until Sony comes out and shows us what their customizations are, and what features they have and haven't covered, we simply can't say how it compares to the standard RDNA2 featureset.
Remember that actually there are two tiers of VRS. RDNA2 supports VRS tier 2 (as nvidia does since Turing), so maybe that's the difference. Yes, I know, tier 1 and 2 are just a labels made by Microsoft, but they reflect different HW capability of doing VRS.
I've regularly seen him retweet tweets which are borderline console warring. I've honestly never seen anything like it from a marketing lead at a massive corporation.
I don't think it's bravado. I think MS has a very clear vision. They know what they want, it's all about gamepass. Making it so that their games can easily be developed for both their consoles and the PC platform will ensure that gamepass is streamlined and has the same stuff on offer regardless of where you are planning to use gamepass.
I think it's going to be very succesful.
And how exactly is that 'unprofessional' and 'console warrior-ish' in this context?
Interested in seeing what effect this will have, especially in the long run. As a layman, have to assume that this will help developers making game for the platform across Xbox, PC and mobile.
Bravo, you can read.
As I stated in my post this entire thread is speculation when it comes to the PS5 and it's own customized version of RDNA2 and how it stacks up to the XsX.
Well Matt surely did not make it sound like there were any difference between them and the comment was directed at people arguing if there was a difference.
If the common Joe already has difficulty to see the difference between Xone and Ps4 imagine seeing between Xsx and Ps5, with far closer configurations.
Content is what will define which console will be bought.
Content is what will define which console will be bought.
It's a lot more efficient than gcn. More performance per flop than gcn. Digital foundry has a video showing the gains games get from rdna 1 on pc compared to other architectures.
Navi RDNA vs GCN 1.0: Last-Gen vs Next-Gen GPU Tech Head-To-Head!
Sony and Microsoft aren't talking teraflops yet for their next-gen consoles - and we try to explain why. What if we were to tell you that a teraflop of Navi ...
youtu.be
Guys we need to be focusing on the hardware component of Direct ML super resolution feature. Is that something similar to DLSS?
During cutscenes then?
Are you referring to technologies like VRS?
I see. Can you go into more detail about what makes the GPU far better in Series X?
I do too. I read that higher CU counts will perform better in software with RT.
A Sony engineer called their chip a middle ground between RDNA1 and RDNA2, what that means is anyone's guess. But he compared it to PS4 Pro which had a GCN2 GPU with select Polaris features added.
We won't know how that translates to performance until DF dig into a few games that really push the systems.
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/10/28/a-closer-look-at-how-xbox-series-xs-integrates-full-amd-rdna-2-architecture/ said:
Sounds like AMD's DLSS-alternative (which has been referred to as Super Resolution) will be Xbox and PC exclusive. If true, this would create a MASSIVE performance gap between XSX and PS5. Hard to believe Sony would give away all this performance when they could see the huge gains provided by DLSS.
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Thank you for the vid, I will be watching it shortly ✌️It's a lot more efficient than gcn. More performance per flop than gcn. Digital foundry has a video showing the gains games get from rdna 1 on pc compared to other architectures.
Navi RDNA vs GCN 1.0: Last-Gen vs Next-Gen GPU Tech Head-To-Head!
Sony and Microsoft aren't talking teraflops yet for their next-gen consoles - and we try to explain why. What if we were to tell you that a teraflop of Navi ...
He also backtracked on those comments saying people misunderstood him.
Oh come on, it doesn't 'sound like' it's exclusive in any way. It's far far too early to tell and we don't know what Sony has or doesn't have.
This is not a PR spin. Some of the rumors about how they waited to get the full feature set of RDNA 2 were obviously true.
"In our quest to put gamers and developers first we chose to wait for the most advanced technology from our partners at AMD before finalizing our architecture."
I don't think anyone knows how big of a difference this will make yet. But good on Microsoft to be patient, even if it meant not having as many games or developer tools ready early on.
"In our quest to put gamers and developers first we chose to wait for the most advanced technology from our partners at AMD before finalizing our architecture."
I don't think anyone knows how big of a difference this will make yet. But good on Microsoft to be patient, even if it meant not having as many games or developer tools ready early on.
Tom Warren has said AMD's DLSS will be open / cross platform, so could come to PS5 and Series X.
That makes sense too. They did get the dev kits in hands much earlier iirc whereas Xbox used a 12 TFLOP RDNA 1 console internally to kickstart development if my recollection is correct.
I imagine if there was some sort of perceivable gulf in performance or visuals all the developers DF have talked to wouldn't be singing as much praise towards the PS5...but I dunno. We live In a world where we're judging distant details at 400% zoom in an attempt to find a "gotcha"...but really. I just don't see there being any sort of real difference between them. I guess we'll find out when some third party titles release in a couple weeks.
DirectX 12 ultimate games won't be out until next year so that's when we will really be able to see what the differences are
My hunch here on this is that XSX and XSS have a more complete programmable Front end with mesh shaders (vs. the older primitive shader type), the Hardware VRS, and the technical hw required for the next Version of tiled resources, which is called Sampler Feedback. And I think, without saying positviely for certain, that that is why MS was so keen to make those features so prominent in their pre-release Material in the Xbox Series X. It was their hardware Feature advantage, they knew it, so they advertised it - just like how they advertised stable clocks as a thing even before Sony described the dynamic clocks to the public.
Will these advantages of a complete RDNA2 vs the PS5 GPU half way point matter? Probably.
By a lot? Meh. Let us wait for the games. And for the games over time. I think the raw flop and bandwidth will matter the most at first though as the other Features, should they prove limited to just XSX and XSS, require dedicated peogramming time to take advantage of. And multiplatform games do not always spend the resources to do that even. Unlike a faster GPU, which is just faster.
Will these advantages of a complete RDNA2 vs the PS5 GPU half way point matter? Probably.
By a lot? Meh. Let us wait for the games. And for the games over time. I think the raw flop and bandwidth will matter the most at first though as the other Features, should they prove limited to just XSX and XSS, require dedicated peogramming time to take advantage of. And multiplatform games do not always spend the resources to do that even. Unlike a faster GPU, which is just faster.
The power difference doesn't make the Playstation hard to develop for all of a sudden...that's what devs were praising.
Just depends on if Sony has custom tech to replace the missing features or not. If they do (which some people claim but Sony hasn't commented on) then likely it's wash and Microsoft is just promoting their partnership like every company ever does. If Sony does not then it just means it's easier to extract performance from the Series X which will help the gpu even more and help the ssd in trying to catch up. The real answer of course is probably somewhere in the middle of both options and players will be happy regardless of which console they buy. This type of info is for the digital foundry's of the world not for people who just want Halo or Spider-Man.