Much of historic Lahaina (Maui, HI) believed destroyed as huge wildfire sends people fleeing into water. Update: 115 killed so far

lokiduck · Aug 14, 2023

SkinnyIndonesian said:
Hawaii fires: Jason Momoa warns tourists not to visit Maui

The actor says Hawaii is "not the place" for a holiday, as locals say tourists carry on as normal while tragedy unfolds.

www.bbc.com

I shouldn't be surprised that it needs to be said at all, but who tf vacations to a disaster area? Why the hell is "disaster tourism" even a thing?

Disaster tourism has been a thing as old as time. It's why Jack the Ripper tours, Salem, Donner Lake, and rich people wanting to see the titanic remains is a thing.

People have extensively talked about when something becomes okay for disaster tourism (most seem to agree when most of the victims family are dead) but you also see a lot less waiting before people go and see the disaster too.

However this has always been the case as it's why people went to public executions, people gawk as they drive past car wrecks, and the battle of Gettysburg had a live audience.

People are naturally morbidly curious, but one would hope that most people have more tact and respect for the victims and know when it's inappropriate to visit.

Clearly anyone participating in disaster tourism with Maui right now is not one of those people.

Uzumaki Goku · Aug 14, 2023

This is horrible.

Boondocks · Aug 14, 2023

lokiduck said:
Disaster tourism has been a thing as old as time. It's why Jack the Ripper tours, Salem, Donner Lake, and rich people wanting to see the titanic remains is a thing.

People have extensively talked about when something becomes okay for disaster tourism (most seem to agree when most of the victims family are dead) but you also see a lot less waiting before people go and see the disaster too.

However this has always been the case as it's why people went to public executions, people gawk as they drive past car wrecks, and the battle of Gettysburg had a live audience.

People are naturally morbidly curious, but one would hope that most people have more tact and respect for the victims and know when it's inappropriate to visit.

Clearly anyone participating in disaster tourism with Maui right now is not one of those people.

I was listening to NPR news this morning and a Hawaiian state senator said they would prefer tourists keep coming or quite a few people will lose income and these people need the income.

teruterubozu · Aug 14, 2023

It is so extremely complicated. Hawaii has had an extreme-love/extreme-hate relationship with tourism/capitalism since forever. These kinds of tragedies just magnify the issue.

SuperBanana · Aug 14, 2023

vodalus said:
Really sucks to see people posting this kind of nonsense

It really sucks that people blatantly ignore real world statistics. 80% of all revenue in Maui is directly or indirectly feom tourism. The island exists as it does soley due to tourism.

Urban Scholar · Aug 14, 2023

Uzumaki Goku said:
This is horrible. What's the cause?

Is this where Sonic 2 was filmed?

I say these things sincerely or be offended, I don't care.

1. Read, it's in the OP as the cause was linked. This is serious matter and you can't be bothered to click on a link???????

2. Where Sonic was filmed? People dead and land burned and you thinking about where a movie was filmed?????????????

*do better*

RobotHaus · Aug 14, 2023

Boondocks said:
I was listening to NPR news this morning and a Hawaiian state senator said they would prefer tourists keep coming or quite a few people will lose income and these people need the income.

It's a frustrating system in place. They need tourism to survive because it's overtaken the rest of the state. Ideally this could be an opportunity for the state to diversity it's industries of income, but it's going to take outsiders to help.

I know tourism will never not be an industry in a location as beautiful as Hawaii, but to give the locals more would be wonderful.

teruterubozu · Aug 14, 2023

SuperBanana said:
It really sucks that people blatantly ignore real world statistics. 80% of all revenue in Maui is directly or indirectly feom tourism. The island exists as it does soley due to tourism.

Actually it's a very important US strategical military location in the Pacific.

lokiduck · Aug 14, 2023

Boondocks said:
I was listening to NPR news this morning and a Hawaiian state senator said they would prefer tourists keep coming or quite a few people will lose income and these people need the income.

Yeah that is also what's contributes to disaster tourism as well unfortunately.

It seems pretty clear the state and citizens don't agree with whether to shut down tourism right now or not, but allowing it will def encourage it.

Soi-Fong · Aug 14, 2023

teruterubozu said:
It is so extremely complicated. Hawaii has had an extreme-love/extreme-hate relationship with tourism/capitalism since forever. These kinds of tragedies just magnify the issue.

It's definitely complicated. You have multiple generational families holding multi-million dollar homes and properties that they just rent out that leads to the housing problem as well. There's a lot of issues w/ tourism, but a lot of the blame also lies w/ locals as well. I don't know how many times I've heard "investment properties" when Hawaii is in the conversation.

There's been a lot of calls for legistlation, for example to prevent homes and properties being bought if it's not a primary home. Guess who opposes it? (Hawaiian politicians who own multiple properties as well as generational families)

Primus · Aug 14, 2023

Soi-Fong said:
There's been a lot of calls for legistlation, for example to prevent homes and properties being bought if it's not a primary home. Guess who opposes it? (Hawaiian politicians who own multiple properties as well as generational families)

3 years ago, when COVID shut down the state, we were given a golden opportunity to do something about our over-reliance on tourism. Everyone talked a good game for a few weeks, then went right back to "well we need to open up the state again first because people are hurting".

I'm not holding my breath that this will be any different.

Thordinson · Aug 14, 2023

SuperBanana said:
It really sucks that people blatantly ignore real world statistics. 80% of all revenue in Maui is directly or indirectly feom tourism. The island exists as it does soley due to tourism.

This is not because Native folks want it to be. You realize this, yes? It's far more complicated than citing a statistic.

The island and the Native folks there existed long before tourism and Capitalism.

SuperBanana · Aug 14, 2023

Thordinson said:
This is not because Native folks want it to be. You realize this, yes? It's far more complicated than citing a statistic.

The island and the Native folks there existed long before tourism and Capitalism.

I am aware, I have several friends who live on Maui, including that of native background and I've traveled there many times. One of them has a street named after their family. None of them hate tourism or think that way. Just like any other group of people, native folk are not homogeneous.

teruterubozu · Aug 14, 2023

Primus said:
3 years ago, when COVID shut down the state, we were given a golden opportunity to do something about our over-reliance on tourism. Everyone talked a good game for a few weeks, then went right back to "well we need to open up the state again first because people are hurting".

I'm not holding my breath that this will be any different.

Of course there are Islands like Niihau, Molokai and Lanai where the people manage to live outside of the mega-tourist network. But yeah Maui and Oahu are basically not far removed from California as far as Mainland influence and kind of past the point of no return. Ain't nobody going back to hard taro farming on Maui.

Carn · Aug 14, 2023

RobotHaus said:
It's a frustrating system in place. They need tourism to survive because it's overtaken the rest of the state.

Yeah it boggles the mind. Not wanting to derail the thread, but I once talked to a barkeep in Bourbon Street (New Orleans) who told me that after Katrina they we're still searching for bodies a few blocks away; while many bars tried to re-open in some form. It's totally morbid.

Coyote Starrk · Aug 14, 2023

Just a heads up for anyone trying to read about this elsewhere online the entire tragedy has been hijacked by the Right and conspiracy theorists to attack Biden and the government.

This includes potentially distressing videos that are unrelated to the fires. So click carefully.

Uzumaki Goku · Aug 14, 2023

Coyote Starrk said:
Just a heads up for anyone trying to read about this elsewhere online the entire tragedy has been hijacked by the Right and conspiracy theorists to attack Biden and the government.

This includes potentially distressing videos that are unrelated to the fires. So click carefully.

What for?!

...don't answer that. Sigh

Thordinson · Aug 14, 2023

SuperBanana said:
I am aware, I have several friends who live on Maui, including that of native background and I've traveled there many times. One of them has a street named after their family. None of them hate tourism or think that way. Just like any other group of people, native folk are not homogeneous.

I've not said they are. I've said many times that it's a complicated relationship. Your friends think one way and my family and friends think another.

More often than not, the folks most affected and most vocal about overtourism, often tourism in general, are Native folks.

teruterubozu said:
Of course there are Islands like Niihau, Molokai and Lanai where the people manage to live outside of the mega-tourist network. But yeah Maui and Oahu are basically not far removed from California as far as Mainland influence and kind of past the point of no return. Ain't nobody going back to hard taro farming on Maui.

What's insane is that two of three you mentioned are privately owned, Niihau and Lanai.

Coyote Starrk · Aug 14, 2023

Uzumaki Goku said:
What for?!

...don't answer that. Sigh

I have no idea. I've never understood it. I was trying to find some updates and saw people talking about "directed energy weapons" and how the government did this on purpose. Completely seriously.

Brain worms. The lot of them.

Uzumaki Goku · Aug 14, 2023

Coyote Starrk said:
I have no idea. I've never understood it. I was trying to find some updates and saw people talking about "directed energy weapons" and how the government did this on purpose. Completely seriously.

Brain worms. The lot of them.

I just hope that the rescuers can save as many as possible.

teruterubozu · Aug 14, 2023

Thordinson said:
I've not said they are. I've said many times that it's a complicated relationship. Your friends think one way and my family and friends think another.

More often than not, the folks most affected and most vocal about overtourism, often tourism in general, are Native folks.

What's insane is that two of three you mentioned are privately owned, Niihau and Lanai.

And their populations are very small and almost entirely Native Hawaiian. In fact Hawaiian is the only language spoken in Niihau. Do the billionaires help sustain their livelihoods? Sure. But they are critical in sustaining the disappearing Hawaiian culture.

Musubi · Aug 14, 2023

I haven't been following this. Has the Biden admin responded about this? Have they sent any relief?

Coyote Starrk · Aug 14, 2023

Musubi said:
I haven't been following this. Has the Biden admin responded about this? Have they sent any relief?

Yes. The Biden administration responded within hours of emergency help being requested.

teruterubozu · Aug 14, 2023

One thing that was discussed a lot on Maui during the COVID shutdown was making the Island more "exclusive." Like making the flights and hotels only affordable for the wealthy and phasing out all the AirBnB/condos/rentals for the regular Joes (who are more prone to "exploring" than lounging). The only thing would be a giant resort area - like Wailea - where tourists arrive and never leave that area - a Disneyland for the wealthy, while the rest of the island is left alone. Ah COVID, good times.

Neutrality · Aug 14, 2023

Guys we're still pulling bodies out of houses here.
Can we move on from this petty bullshit re: tourism and if it's okay for some people to grieve or whatever.
We can discuss the impacts of colonialism later yeah, we all know it was fucked how our government pointed canons at the Queen and stole these lands.
Let's just deal with recovery right now.
Just gets irritating to read after a while. I get the heart is in the right place, just isn't the right time.

Thordinson · Aug 14, 2023

teruterubozu said:
And their populations are very small and almost entirely Native Hawaiian. In fact Hawaiian is the only language spoken in Niihau. Do the billionaires help sustain their livelihoods? Sure. But they are critical in sustaining the disappearing Hawaiian culture.

I meant that its just crazy to me that the islands are privately owned.

Neutrality said:
Guys we're still pulling bodies out of houses here.
Can we move on from this petty bullshit re: tourism and if it's okay for some people to grieve or whatever.
We can discuss the impacts of colonialism later yeah, we all know it was fucked how our government pointed canons at the Queen and stole these lands.
Let's just deal with recovery right now.
Just gets irritating to read after a while. I get the heart is in the right place, just isn't the right time.

This doesn't happen without the impacts of colonialism so I think it's fair to discuss.

But if folks rather I don't and it's increasing pain, I'll take the discussion elsewhere.

teruterubozu · Aug 14, 2023

Neutrality said:
Guys we're still pulling bodies out of houses here.
Can we move on from this petty bullshit re: tourism and if it's okay for some people to grieve or whatever.
We can discuss the impacts of colonialism later yeah, we all know it was fucked how our government pointed canons at the Queen and stole these lands.
Let's just deal with recovery right now.
Just gets irritating to read after a while. I get the heart is in the right place, just isn't the right time.

Apologies for the sidetracking - I agree we need to be more sensitive about what's happening on the ground level. Unfortunately here on the Mainland the pervasive conversation and in the media (like the Momoa article above) has turned into "to go or not to go" and tourism. It sucks and I feel helpless for my family and friends at home. My sister has set up go-fund-me pages for our friends who lost everything. I've been donating to those but watching from a distance has been tough and the mind wanders.

nilbog · Aug 14, 2023

1300 people still unaccounted for according this article. This is so sad and tragic.

Eien1no1Yami · Aug 15, 2023

My heart goes out to all the Hawaiian people that got affected by the disaster, this is indeed really heartbreaking

I'm from Greece and we have many fires each year a few of them resulting in many human casualties in the past.
For the last couple of years we have established a mechanism (funded by the EU) where an sms message is sent to every citizen's phone that is close to a region considered to be dangerous, due to a coming natural phenomenon (earthquake, fire, tornado etc) by the Ministry of Civil Protection and contains instructions depending on the situation.
Is there something similar in the US for situations like these?

Having so many people dead and even more missing is a huge disaster and cannot be attributed just to the insane weather conditions (strong wind, high temperatures).
Climate change is here to stay so Goverments should try to adapt to this new situation and place better mechanisms in order to prevent as much damage as possible from disasters like this especially preventing the loss of any life.

teruterubozu · Aug 15, 2023

Eien1no1Yami said:
My heart goes out to all the Hawaiian people that got affected by the disaster, this is indeed really heartbreaking

I'm from Greece and we have many fires each year a few of them resulting in many human casualties in the past.
For the last couple of years we have established a mechanism (funded by the EU) where an sms message is sent to every citizen's phone that is close to a region considered to be dangerous, due to a coming natural phenomenon (earthquake, fire, tornado etc) by the Ministry of Civil Protection and contains instructions depending on the situation.
Is there something similar in the US for situations like these?

Having so many people dead and even more missing is a huge disaster and cannot be attributed just to the insane weather conditions (strong wind, high temperatures).
Climate change is here to stay so Goverments should try to adapt to this new situation and place better mechanisms in order to prevent as much damage as possible from disasters like this especially preventing the loss of any life.

Maui has a tsunami warning siren system throughout the island. It is extremely loud and they test it once a month. For some reason the sirens weren't activated, and people are wondering why.

Kisaya · Aug 15, 2023

This instagram page has Venmo links directly to families in Lahaina:

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

instagram.com

nilbog · Aug 15, 2023

Interesting account here showing how bad the winds were and how fast the fire was moving at 3pm. No sirens, and I'm surprised how bad it was that time of day compared to later that evening when people were barely getting out. It feels like with sirens and a working alert system, more people could have gotten out in time.

View: https://www.tiktok.com/@isla_trip/video/7267075908589161770?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7252000512437700138

Primus · Aug 15, 2023

teruterubozu said:
Maui has a tsunami warning siren system throughout the island. It is extremely loud and they test it once a month. For some reason the sirens weren't activated, and people are wondering why.

There's two competing theories right now. The first, espoused by the chief of the MPD (so it could be ass-covering and finger-pointing) is that because the head of the local Civil Defense was off-island, there was no one who could authorize the sounding of the sirens. The second is that the infrastructure for sounding the sirens had already been cut off thanks to the earlier fires and downed power lines, and while the majority of the sirens do have a backup method of sounding, that required a Civil Defense worker to manually get to each siren and turn it on, which was totally unfeasible due to the fire's fast movement. Good chance those worker(s) would have succumbed to smoke and flames.

mrmoose · Aug 15, 2023

Eien1no1Yami said:
My heart goes out to all the Hawaiian people that got affected by the disaster, this is indeed really heartbreaking

I'm from Greece and we have many fires each year a few of them resulting in many human casualties in the past.
For the last couple of years we have established a mechanism (funded by the EU) where an sms message is sent to every citizen's phone that is close to a region considered to be dangerous, due to a coming natural phenomenon (earthquake, fire, tornado etc) by the Ministry of Civil Protection and contains instructions depending on the situation.
Is there something similar in the US for situations like these?

Having so many people dead and even more missing is a huge disaster and cannot be attributed just to the insane weather conditions (strong wind, high temperatures).
Climate change is here to stay so Goverments should try to adapt to this new situation and place better mechanisms in order to prevent as much damage as possible from disasters like this especially preventing the loss of any life.

What happens if the cell towers are knocked out, though (or did that happen much later)?

The Hawaiian Electric rep was asked why they didn't immediately shut off the power when the winds were high like they do in CA when there's a fire, and they said something like they're not equipped with the same system and it would endanger a lot of the families who rely on power. Like if all the power goes out and the cell phones are out, I'm not sure how you're going to get communications. Hopefully the alarm system has it's own generator, same for the necessary buildings like firefighters and hospitals, but given they didn't even have water pressure I'm not sure.

Also seems like the rumors of looting were exaggerated, police chief said there were no calls (one guy got arrested for trespassing)

Dreezy · Aug 15, 2023

Miklo said:
1300 people still unaccounted for according this article. This is so sad and tragic.

The fire burned so hot even the metal on cars are gone... I think some people's remains will never be found.

mrmoose · Aug 15, 2023

Primus said:
There's two competing theories right now. The first, espoused by the chief of the MPD (so it could be ass-covering and finger-pointing) is that because the head of the local Civil Defense was off-island, there was no one who could authorize the sounding of the sirens. The second is that the infrastructure for sounding the sirens had already been cut off thanks to the earlier fires and downed power lines, and while the majority of the sirens do have a backup method of sounding, that required a Civil Defense worker to manually get to each siren and turn it on, which was totally unfeasible due to the fire's fast movement. Good chance those worker(s) would have succumbed to smoke and flames.

That first one seems eerily similar to that other mistake in 2018 when those missile sirens went off because of one employee. I really hope that this "only one person can authorize the alarms" was not an overreaction to that.

Cat Party · Aug 15, 2023

Miklo said:
Interesting account here showing how bad the winds were and how fast the fire was moving at 3pm. No sirens, and I'm surprised how bad it was that time of day compared to later that evening when people were barely getting out. It feels like with sirens and a working alert system, more people could have gotten out in time.

View: https://www.tiktok.com/@isla_trip/video/7267075908589161770?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7252000512437700138

This video (and some other similar ones I've seen) really emphasize how incredibly fast this tragedy developed. No one really had any inkling they were about to be in the path of a firestorm until it was on their heels.

As is sadly typical in wildfire tragedies like this one, emergency warnings systems were not sufficient. Whether its because of a lack of prompt action, or because of damage from high winds (or most likely both), they were simply not up to the task. The same failings were exposed in the Camp Fire (which destroyed Paradise, CA) in 2018. Better systems are needed for areas that are prone to dry conditions and high winds.

Ernest · Aug 15, 2023

Insurance companies are gonna try their hardest to label this an "act of god" so as to not pay out , aren't they?

ezekial45 · Aug 15, 2023

Ernest said:
Insurance companies are gonna try their hardest to label this an "act of god" so as to not pay out , aren't they?

Absolutely, and then real-estate companies and other vultures will swoop in to pick on the vulnerable families who lost their homes.

Eien1no1Yami · Aug 15, 2023

mrmoose said:
What happens if the cell towers are knocked out, though (or did that happen much later)?

The Hawaiian Electric rep was asked why they didn't immediately shut off the power when the winds were high like they do in CA when there's a fire, and they said something like they're not equipped with the same system and it would endanger a lot of the families who rely on power. Like if all the power goes out and the cell phones are out, I'm not sure how you're going to get communications. Hopefully the alarm system has it's own generator, same for the necessary buildings like firefighters and hospitals, but given they didn't even have water pressure I'm not sure.

Also seems like the rumors of looting were exaggerated, police chief said there were no calls (one guy got arrested for trespassing)

I'm sorry I'm confused a little bit.
Are you taking about Hawaii or my country?
If it's the latter, it works even without any coverage or cell phone signal, you don't even need to have a SIM card on the phone or internet or anything like that.

mrmoose · Aug 15, 2023

Eien1no1Yami said:
I'm sorry I'm confused a little bit.
Are you taking about Hawaii or my country?
If it's the latter, it works even without any coverage or cell phone signal, you don't even need to have a SIM card on the phone or internet or anything like that.

I was talking about Hawaii but now I'm curious how it works in your country. It's very likely that I just have no idea how cell phones work, they don't need a cell signal at all to send an alert?

Eien1no1Yami · Aug 15, 2023

mrmoose said:
I was talking about Hawaii but now I'm curious how it works in your country. It's very likely that I just have no idea how cell phones work, they don't need a cell signal at all to send an alert?

Yes exactly, unfortunately I don't know the exact details but that's how it works apparently.
Also it's not just my country but other EU countries too.
I know for sure that Portugal uses the exact same system too.
Maybe someone from PortugalEra, SpainEra, ItalyEra can chime in and share more details if they know..

entremet · Aug 15, 2023

Kinda nuts that people are still going.

Jedi2016 · Aug 15, 2023

ezekial45 said:
Absolutely, and then real-estate companies and other vultures will swoop in to pick on the vulnerable families who lost their homes.

Pretty sure that's already happening, before the smoke has even cleared. Disgusting.

Distantmantra · Aug 15, 2023

Miklo said:
Interesting account here showing how bad the winds were and how fast the fire was moving at 3pm. No sirens, and I'm surprised how bad it was that time of day compared to later that evening when people were barely getting out. It feels like with sirens and a working alert system, more people could have gotten out in time.

View: https://www.tiktok.com/@isla_trip/video/7267075908589161770?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7252000512437700138

That video is heartbreaking and also shows the power of the winds and fire moving as quickly as it did. The Tiktok account mentioned how Lahaina was without power early on, including Front Street. It sounds like there were still a good number of people down on Front Street when the flames finally got there. Is that correct?

mrmoose said:
I was talking about Hawaii but now I'm curious how it works in your country. It's very likely that I just have no idea how cell phones work, they don't need a cell signal at all to send an alert?

I think it's like if you have an old phone that no longer has paid service you can still call emergency services on it (ie. 911) but you can't call any other number. If you've got an old iPhone or Android phone lying around in a drawer, you can call 911 no problem. You'd still need a functioning cell system to receive the warning or call 911, though. If the cell towers/infrastructure is already destroyed you're not calling out and having anything get in.

mrmoose · Aug 15, 2023

Distantmantra said:
I think it's like if you have an old phone that no longer has paid service you can still call emergency services on it (ie. 911) but you can't call any other number. If you've got an old iPhone or Android phone lying around in a drawer, you can call 911 no problem. You'd still need a functioning cell system to receive the warning or call 911, though. If the cell towers/infrastructure is already destroyed you're not calling out and having anything get in.

Ah, ok, that makes sense, you don't need paid cell service for emergency alerts but you do need functioning cell towers. Got it.

Primus · Aug 15, 2023

Distantmantra said:
That video is heartbreaking and also shows the power of the winds and fire moving as quickly as it did. The Tiktok account mentioned how Lahaina was without power early on, including Front Street. It sounds like there were still a good number of people down on Front Street when the flames finally got there. Is that correct?

Yes. High winds had taken down 30+ power poles in Lahaina over the course of Tuesday prior to the fires.

TheMadTitan · Aug 15, 2023

entremet said:
Kinda nuts that people are still going.

My company has three properties on Maui, all untouched by the fire. All they did was put out a strong suggestion that people don't go; still accepting reservations and didn't blanket cancel & refund.

As long as these companies are still letting people go even though they outright state that internet and cell service is going to be non-existent, tone deaf asshats are still going to pack suitcases without a second thought.

spam musubi · Aug 15, 2023

Distantmantra said:
That video is heartbreaking and also shows the power of the winds and fire moving as quickly as it did. The Tiktok account mentioned how Lahaina was without power early on, including Front Street. It sounds like there were still a good number of people down on Front Street when the flames finally got there. Is that correct?

I think it's like if you have an old phone that no longer has paid service you can still call emergency services on it (ie. 911) but you can't call any other number. If you've got an old iPhone or Android phone lying around in a drawer, you can call 911 no problem. You'd still need a functioning cell system to receive the warning or call 911, though. If the cell towers/infrastructure is already destroyed you're not calling out and having anything get in.

This new iOS feature is the exception though, it can place SOS calls through satellite

How an iPhone 14 ‘literally’ saved a family trapped in the Hawaii wildfires

Family rescued after using Emergency SOS via satellite.

www.macworld.com

Distantmantra · Aug 15, 2023

spam musubi said:
This new iOS feature is the exception though, it can place SOS calls through satellite

How an iPhone 14 ‘literally’ saved a family trapped in the Hawaii wildfires

Family rescued after using Emergency SOS via satellite.

www.macworld.com

It's only on iPhones 14 and higher, right? I'm still rocking an XR and I found the Emergency SOS feature on my phone but guessing it doesn't use satellite services to do so.

Much of historic Lahaina (Maui, HI) believed destroyed as huge wildfire sends people fleeing into water. Update: 115 killed so far

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