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deafmedal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
546
Ok, this is probably a long shot, but anyone here in Texas and have purchased any rigid fiberglass (OC 703/705) or rock/mineral wool equivalent in a brick-and-mortar and NOT online? I may make a GearSlutz profile and ask there butt fuck me, it's quite difficult to suss out where to buy at a store and shipping online is ridiculously expensive. Gonna do some treatment but as money is tight if I can save $50 bucks or so that would be nice.
 

Twenty Three

Member
Oct 28, 2017
316
Does anyone use Maschine and, if so, do they use them on different set-ups?

I just got Maschine and have it rigged up to a laptop (windows, no DAW) in the living room, but all my gear and the MAC (use logic) are in the study. I want to use it as a sketch pad and then transfer projects to the studio. Do projects translate between windows and MAC easily?

Sorry if schoolboy level question, but just wondered if anyone had experience of this.
 

Hamst3r

Member
Oct 25, 2017
104
Ok, this is probably a long shot, but anyone here in Texas and have purchased any rigid fiberglass (OC 703/705) or rock/mineral wool equivalent in a brick-and-mortar and NOT online? I may make a GearSlutz profile and ask there butt fuck me, it's quite difficult to suss out where to buy at a store and shipping online is ridiculously expensive. Gonna do some treatment but as money is tight if I can save $50 bucks or so that would be nice.

Try calling OC: http://www2.owenscorning.com/1800getpink.asp and asking if there are any suppliers in your area.
 

Shwing

Member
Oct 25, 2017
858
This is my first electronic drum kit. What's some good software I should be using with it?
 

Hamst3r

Member
Oct 25, 2017
104
This is my first electronic drum kit. What's some good software I should be using with it?

If you just want a drum plugin, check out Toontrack EZdrummer or Superior Drummer, which have tons of expansions you could get to make a ridiculous selection of drums to choose from.

My other suggestion would be Native Instruments Kontakt, preferably as part of Komplete Ultimate. That way it'll come with 15 real nice drum kits, some electronic kits, and Battery for even more kits. You can also expand these with third party offerings, or build your own, or find freebies.
 
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toku

沢山特別
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,121
Ne Monde
Does anyone use Maschine and, if so, do they use them on different set-ups?

I just got Maschine and have it rigged up to a laptop (windows, no DAW) in the living room, but all my gear and the MAC (use logic) are in the study. I want to use it as a sketch pad and then transfer projects to the studio. Do projects translate between windows and MAC easily?

Sorry if schoolboy level question, but just wondered if anyone had experience of this.
I use maschine. If you were all on the same OS you could load maschine up in logic iirc. Since you're not doing that I think your best (easiest?) solution is just bouncing out w/e you're doing in maschine out as stems or sounds and then dropping them in logic.

When you go to export just change your "Source" from "Master Output" to "Group Outputs" or "Sound Outputs" whatever you prefer/need.
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
My current plan after not having produced any music in like 12 years and restarting from nothing:

Reason + plugins
Full-featured MIDI controller
Decent condenser mic
Akai EIE Pro audio interface
Decent powered monitors
Good mixing headphones

Will be using a guitar on some material, but most of it will be electronic/heavily synth-based regardless.

Any suggestions for those parts of the above that are general are welcome, as are thoughts on the products that are specific. I really like the Akai interface on paper, and its appearance makes me feel good, but other suggestions are welcome. I just want to be able to track live intstruments decently.

I also like everything I hear about Reason, so I am kinda into it.

I am psyched. Been too long. Everything is different now (I started on a MPC + hardware synths back in the early 2000s with electronic music) but I am looking forward to all the things.
 

Chris Metal

Avatar Master Painter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,582
United Kingdom
This is my first electronic drum kit. What's some good software I should be using with it?
For the kit size and module you're using something like fxpansion BFD3, Toontrack Superior Drummer 3 or XLN Audio Addictive DRUMS 2 would be best.

Some of the more budget/bundle virtual drum instruments can't match the articulations/hit velocity/hit types/zones available in the ones listed.
 

Twenty Three

Member
Oct 28, 2017
316
I use maschine. If you were all on the same OS you could load maschine up in logic iirc. Since you're not doing that I think your best (easiest?) solution is just bouncing out w/e you're doing in maschine out as stems or sounds and then dropping them in logic.

When you go to export just change your "Source" from "Master Output" to "Group Outputs" or "Sound Outputs" whatever you prefer/need.
Cheers. That makes most sense. I Guess I can also use the stems in the MPC for further mayhem.
 

deafmedal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
546
My current plan after not having produced any music in like 12 years and restarting from nothing:

Reason + plugins
Full-featured MIDI controller
Decent condenser mic
Akai EIE Pro audio interface
Decent powered monitors
Good mixing headphones

Will be using a guitar on some material, but most of it will be electronic/heavily synth-based regardless.

Any suggestions for those parts of the above that are general are welcome, as are thoughts on the products that are specific. I really like the Akai interface on paper, and its appearance makes me feel good, but other suggestions are welcome. I just want to be able to track live intstruments decently.

I also like everything I hear about Reason, so I am kinda into it.

I am psyched. Been too long. Everything is different now (I started on a MPC + hardware synths back in the early 2000s with electronic music) but I am looking forward to all the things.
First off, good luck and have fun!
What is your budget? That is going to determine recommendations. The interface you've selected looks to be capable, especially if it's going to be just you but if you plan on expanding recording capabilities it'll be a bit limited. Reason is good software but I would advise trying as many DAWs as you can before committing, such as Live Suite, Bitwig or Fruity Loops (if on Win). If you do get that interface it comes with Live Lite and Cubase LE, both decent looks into their platforms and all mentioned have at least a 30 day demo. Or just say fuck it and roll with Reason sight unseen and learn the hell out of it, I guarantee good results are possible with it.
You may also want to look into the NI Maschine platform given your history.
TBH, there is a so much stuff out there and most of it is capable of producing great results. Some YOU will work with better but the only way to know is to try.
 

SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
Reason was the first DAW I ever tried, back when it was still Reason 4 or 5? I think... and it only made me hate myself...
Then one day I discovered FL Studio and I've been using that ever since. :3
 

deafmedal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
546
Reason was the first DAW I ever tried, back when it was still Reason 4 or 5? I think... and it only made me hate myself...
Then one day I discovered FL Studio and I've been using that ever since. :3
I didn't take to Reason, but it is a little bit different now. It didn't do traditional recording and I needed that. I never picked it up to use as an instrument but to be fair I've not bought too many VI's.
I kinda felt the way you do about Reason toward FL... my brain said nope! Was always jealous of the step sequencer in FL tho, Push (2) was a welcome addition to Live's arsenal.
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
First off, good luck and have fun!
What is your budget? That is going to determine recommendations. The interface you've selected looks to be capable, especially if it's going to be just you but if you plan on expanding recording capabilities it'll be a bit limited. Reason is good software but I would advise trying as many DAWs as you can before committing, such as Live Suite, Bitwig or Fruity Loops (if on Win). If you do get that interface it comes with Live Lite and Cubase LE, both decent looks into their platforms and all mentioned have at least a 30 day demo. Or just say fuck it and roll with Reason sight unseen and learn the hell out of it, I guarantee good results are possible with it.
You may also want to look into the NI Maschine platform given your history.
TBH, there is a so much stuff out there and most of it is capable of producing great results. Some YOU will work with better but the only way to know is to try.

My budget starting off will be 2k-ish, but I plan to just add on as I need to. And that budget doesn't include a guitar, which I also need but can work out easily.

It'll just be me as far as the interface goes and I won't be tracking morrle than one instrument at a time. Didn't realize it came with software... Maybe I'll try that out!

Thanks for the DAW advice. I guess trying some stuff out first would be a good idea. No harm in dabbling before purchasing, and there are certainly lots of options.

Thanks again!
 

deafmedal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
546
My budget starting off will be 2k-ish, but I plan to just add on as I need to. And that budget doesn't include a guitar, which I also need but can work out easily.

It'll just be me as far as the interface goes and I won't be tracking morrle than one instrument at a time. Didn't realize it came with software... Maybe I'll try that out!

Thanks for the DAW advice. I guess trying some stuff out first would be a good idea. No harm in dabbling before purchasing, and there are certainly lots of options.

Thanks again!
So, with a 2k-ish budget I'd spend as much as possible on your monitors as that is probably the most important element in the chain. For those, you can check them out the selection at a local store but keep in mind they will perform differently in your space than at the store so try to buy from a place that will let you return easily.
Take a look at the https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/maschine/production-systems/maschine/, something like that would cover a few of your bases (interface, software, controller) leaving more for monitors. And consider getting a dynamic mic at first, cannot go wrong with a Shure SM58. This would allow you to spend a decent amount on monitors and leave a little left over for a DAW, although not enough for Live Suite if you try and love Live.




And I may have just ordered a couple things from Sweetwater. They are running the 4 year no interest deal on a bunch of brands... including the mic I wanted, the Townsend Labs Sphere L22. Also picked up an extra set of cans (Senn HD 380) and the Izotope Music Production Suite. Mic isn't in stock yet (expected end of April) so may give me time to get my treatment project wrapped up before it gets here, I'm excited!
 
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SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
You know what I'm really fucking pissed right now...
I use Xpand2 but my license for that is managed via this ilok license manager thing. I have to transfer the license to my new PC and it doesn't work because my old PC is gone and both of them have to be connected to the internet. The old PC literally is gone and the license is now permanently stuck on a device that doesn't exist. I contacted ilok and they said "blahblah we can't do anything, please contact the developer"... Fuck this... I hate all this DRM bullshit, that's also why I won't ever use a product by Native Instruments ever. You go to NI's website and see "oh nice, Blocks Wired is available for free I wanna try it" and you click download but instead you have to download Reaktor 6 player first. So you download that one but then it tells you: Oh before you can install it, please download and install NI Service Center...

You have to download a thing to download a thing to be able to download a thing that is free!! You should be able to simply drop it into your vst plugins folder and that's it.
 

Nyx

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
845
Utrecht, The Netherlands
Reason was the first DAW I ever tried, back when it was still Reason 4 or 5? I think... and it only made me hate myself...
Then one day I discovered FL Studio and I've been using that ever since. :3

I started producing with Reason 4. Tried others like Ableton Live, Fruity Loops and more, but just couldn't get used to them. Reason is love, Reason is life.

Also, the fact you actually connect everything with wires made me have a better understanding on how a real studio would work I guess, and it's just cool if you ask me.

In regard to what gear I use, it's just a desktop PC with Reason, an old M-Audio Oxygen V2 controller and Sennheiser headphones. Have been using this setup since 2008 lol. The Maschine is something that's been on my mind for a few years, but I always end up not buying one because of the price and that I can actually do almost anything it does already with what I have right now.

I'll end with a question for house/dance producers, I'm having trouble with the intro of a track, it's just adding instruments right now in each new loop, and as a listener I'd probably lose interest before the real interesting bit of the track starts. How do you keep it interesting those first 1-2 minutes ? :)
 

SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
Also, the fact you actually connect everything with wires made me have a better understanding on how a real studio would work I guess, and it's just cool if you ask me.
I still remember how I hated this and the fact you couldn't even maximize the program, everything was just so crammed into this small window. Also I had absolutely no idea what I was doing with the wires lol... Eventually I just picked up FL Studio and learned how to program synths and I have enough knowledge now to be able to use rack synths and stuff.
How do you keep it interesting those first 1-2 minutes
Don't make it sound too static. You can play short musical phrases in the intro and add some automation, also some percussion instruments and syncopation.
 

Jupiter IV

Member
Jan 6, 2018
1,220
I still remember how I hated this and the fact you couldn't even maximize the program, everything was just so crammed into this small window. Also I had absolutely no idea what I was doing with the wires lol... Eventually I just picked up FL Studio and learned how to program synths and I have enough knowledge now to be able to use rack synths and stuff.

Don't make it sound too static. You can play short musical phrases in the intro and add some automation, also some percussion instruments and syncopation.

If you have enough synths to be patching things together you should just have a patch bay. Unless you're talking about modular? I can't do modular. I can program a synth but put me in front of a modular and I get confused and freak out lol. I think about buying the Softube Modular every time it goes on sale but I feel like I'll open it once or twice and that's it.
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
So, with a 2k-ish budget I'd spend as much as possible on your monitors as that is probably the most important element in the chain. For those, you can check them out the selection at a local store but keep in mind they will perform differently in your space than at the store so try to buy from a place that will let you return easily.
Take a look at the https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/maschine/production-systems/maschine/, something like that would cover a few of your bases (interface, software, controller) leaving more for monitors. And consider getting a dynamic mic at first, cannot go wrong with a Shure SM58. This would allow you to spend a decent amount on monitors and leave a little left over for a DAW, although not enough for Live Suite if you try and love Live.

Welp. The Maschine just went from off my radar to a must-have. Hot damn. Thanks so much for all the advice, bud!
 

SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
Unless you're talking about modular?
yeah I was talking about modular and also hardware ones. They are not that different though, the only difference is you have to set up all connections yourself and you have tons of cables. In the end though... I don't really see the value in that because you can create all those sounds with software synths anyway and they are more intuitive too.
 

Jaws

Member
Oct 29, 2017
80
I hope this is a good place to ask. After wanting to play the drums since being a kid, and never being allowed a kit. I've finally bought myself one, but have no clue how to play. Does anyone have any tips for a beginner, or good sites to learn from. Or would I be better getting lessons? Cheers
 

lemming

Member
Oct 27, 2017
219
I hope this is a good place to ask. After wanting to play the drums since being a kid, and never being allowed a kit. I've finally bought myself one, but have no clue how to play. Does anyone have any tips for a beginner, or good sites to learn from. Or would I be better getting lessons? Cheers

That's great! Welcome to the awful world of carrying a lot of stuff around :D
I don't think we have a Drum-Era OT yet :(

I've been drumming for a few years, and love it. Not a pro, just a "serious" hobbyist.
IMO, you should try some stuff by yourself first, at least for a couple of weeks or a month. Then I'd definitely recommend a private, live, teacher for 1 to 3 months. This will allow you to learn good posture and how to practice.
This path can work as long as you're not easily put off by difficulties. Else and if you can afford it, go straight to a teacher!

For starting to learn stuff, I would definitely recommend advancing in the following 3 areas simultaneously:

1) Spend some time learning basic drum notation. This will open a world of practice materials.
This seems like a good place to start, but I am sure there will be other sites with this info.
http://drumlessonsbeginners.com/drum-lesson/how-to-read-drum-sheet-music/

2) Start reading about, listening, watching and playing the basic rudiments. This is the "bread and butter" of drumming.
Work from the basics up: single stroke roll , double strokes, paradiddles. I guess you could skip flams for a while.
These are some great resources:
- http://vicfirth.com/40-essential-rudiments/
- First couple of pages of Stick Control, by George Lawrence Stona (you can find the kindle version for ~$12 at amazon)

3) Basic independence stuff.
I guess this depends a lot on the kind of genres you are interested in.
I started with rock and it was a nice difficult ramp onward. You will get tons of materials on "basic rock beat" etc on youtube.
When you are able to read drum notation, stick to a book and work it out. You will advance tons!

I also vouch for a Mike Johnson online lessons monthly subscription, I guess it is around 25-30USD/month. This is a great deal, specially if you live in a city where live lessons are hard to find.
Great teacher and community. TONS of material available to study :)

Get a metronome app on your phone, learn how to use it together with the material you are studying. If possible, try to always practice with a metronome!

Keep chipping away at it and you'll have tons of fun! If you need any help, just pm me!
 

Jupiter IV

Member
Jan 6, 2018
1,220
That's great! Welcome to the awful world of carrying a lot of stuff around :D
I don't think we have a Drum-Era OT yet :(

I've been drumming for a few years, and love it. Not a pro, just a "serious" hobbyist.
IMO, you should try some stuff by yourself first, at least for a couple of weeks or a month. Then I'd definitely recommend a private, live, teacher for 1 to 3 months. This will allow you to learn good posture and how to practice.
This path can work as long as you're not easily put off by difficulties. Else and if you can afford it, go straight to a teacher!

For starting to learn stuff, I would definitely recommend advancing in the following 3 areas simultaneously:

1) Spend some time learning basic drum notation. This will open a world of practice materials.
This seems like a good place to start, but I am sure there will be other sites with this info.
http://drumlessonsbeginners.com/drum-lesson/how-to-read-drum-sheet-music/

2) Start reading about, listening, watching and playing the basic rudiments. This is the "bread and butter" of drumming.
Work from the basics up: single stroke roll , double strokes, paradiddles. I guess you could skip flams for a while.
These are some great resources:
- http://vicfirth.com/40-essential-rudiments/
- First couple of pages of Stick Control, by George Lawrence Stona (you can find the kindle version for ~$12 at amazon)

3) Basic independence stuff.
I guess this depends a lot on the kind of genres you are interested in.
I started with rock and it was a nice difficult ramp onward. You will get tons of materials on "basic rock beat" etc on youtube.
When you are able to read drum notation, stick to a book and work it out. You will advance tons!

I also vouch for a Mike Johnson online lessons monthly subscription, I guess it is around 25-30USD/month. This is a great deal, specially if you live in a city where live lessons are hard to find.
Great teacher and community. TONS of material available to study :)

Get a metronome app on your phone, learn how to use it together with the material you are studying. If possible, try to always practice with a metronome!

Keep chipping away at it and you'll have tons of fun! If you need any help, just pm me!

Oh man, I've been looking for that vic firth rudiments and couldn't find it for some reason. Do you have any opinion on Drumeo? Gonna check out the Mike Johnson one... I'm guessing it's the mikelessons.com that comes up on google?

Also... I knew someone who shoved their set in a VW bug ;)
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
Is it weird that I want to splurge and get the Maschine mk3 AND Reason for somewhat similar... reasons? (Sorry, that was unavoidable.)

I loved building songs on my MPC back in the 90s and early 2000s. It was clunky as fuck, but there was a charm to the process that produced its own results by virtue of the clunk. This makes the Maschine attractive to me (aside from the wealth of stuff it does as an interface and controller.) Not that it's clunky, but it's a beat machine with its own interface. I get that. AND it's an interface.

I also love hardware synths. Reason's interface seems intuitive to me because I am used to patching shit together for results (the only way to experiment once upon a time.) There's no way I can afford an arsenal of harware synths, so this seems like the next-best thing. I love building synth sounds very systematically from the ground up (or down,) so this seems like a good match?

My dilemma is that this is a pretty costly combo, especially when factoring in a MIDI keyboard of at least 52 keys (I gotta be able to move around somewhat naturally, and I will not play chords/melodies on pads, ever.)

I guess you can prolly tell that my tastes are tactile and experiential as well as results-based. The process inspires itself, et al. This is true for many MPC vets, as well as hardware synth enthusiasts (I am both.)

This will cost me more than is perhaps wise, but I am ok with that. I guess I am less worried about cost vs results than I am the process itself.

It's SO damn satisying and inspiring to get into one's process in a way that inspires the results. I have experienced this so many times, and it's real. I've sat in front of a computer that has cutting-edge software loaded and felt less-inspired to create than when I was navigating my MPC's crappy UI in a flop house.

So I guess I gravitate toward things that facilitate that kind of production. Buddies, I am about to spend WAY too much on this lol. It's ok because I have a stable living situation and I can afford to catch up for many months.
 

Twenty Three

Member
Oct 28, 2017
316
Is it weird that I want to splurge and get the Maschine mk3 AND Reason for somewhat similar... reasons? (Sorry, that was unavoidable.)

I loved building songs on my MPC back in the 90s and early 2000s. It was clunky as fuck, but there was a charm to the process that produced its own results by virtue of the clunk. This makes the Maschine attractive to me (aside from the wealth of stuff it does as an interface and controller.) Not that it's clunky, but it's a beat machine with its own interface. I get that. AND it's an interface.

I also love hardware synths. Reason's interface seems intuitive to me because I am used to patching shit together for results (the only way to experiment once upon a time.) There's no way I can afford an arsenal of harware synths, so this seems like the next-best thing. I love building synth sounds very systematically from the ground up (or down,) so this seems like a good match?

My dilemma is that this is a pretty costly combo, especially when factoring in a MIDI keyboard of at least 52 keys (I gotta be able to move around somewhat naturally, and I will not play chords/melodies on pads, ever.)

I guess you can prolly tell that my tastes are tactile and experiential as well as results-based. The process inspires itself, et al. This is true for many MPC vets, as well as hardware synth enthusiasts (I am both.)

This will cost me more than is perhaps wise, but I am ok with that. I guess I am less worried about cost vs results than I am the process itself.

It's SO damn satisying and inspiring to get into one's process in a way that inspires the results. I have experienced this so many times, and it's real. I've sat in front of a computer that has cutting-edge software loaded and felt less-inspired to create than when I was navigating my MPC's crappy UI in a flop house.

So I guess I gravitate toward things that facilitate that kind of production. Buddies, I am about to spend WAY too much on this lol. It's ok because I have a stable living situation and I can afford to catch up for many months.
Have you considered the MPC Live for your Budget. It's an MPC. Portable. Filled with content. Acts like an audio interface. Has daw like properties (midi editing, mixing, fx).
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
Have you considered the MPC Live for your Budget. It's an MPC. Portable. Filled with content. Acts like an audio interface. Has daw like properties (midi editing, mixing, fx).

Actually yes. But I am still working through all the features of the options. I have been out of the game since the mid 2000s. Thanks for the suggestion! It's crazy how different it is diving in these days compared to before. There was no advice other than in-person before, but here we are now.

Checking it out now! Thanks :)
 

lemming

Member
Oct 27, 2017
219
Oh man, I've been looking for that vic firth rudiments and couldn't find it for some reason. Do you have any opinion on Drumeo? Gonna check out the Mike Johnson one... I'm guessing it's the mikelessons.com that comes up on google?
Also... I knew someone who shoved their set in a VW bug ;)
That someone is a great organizer!
Yup, mikeslessons.com is Mike Johnson's site.
I have not signed to the monthly subscription on Drumeo yet, so I can't comment on that, but so far they have been very generous on their Youtube channel: consistently getting great guest drummers and posting complete workshops there.
 

Chris Metal

Avatar Master Painter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,582
United Kingdom
My budget starting off will be 2k-ish, but I plan to just add on as I need to. And that budget doesn't include a guitar, which I also need but can work out easily.

It'll just be me as far as the interface goes and I won't be tracking morrle than one instrument at a time. Didn't realize it came with software... Maybe I'll try that out!

Thanks for the DAW advice. I guess trying some stuff out first would be a good idea. No harm in dabbling before purchasing, and there are certainly lots of options.

Thanks again!
I suggest:
Monitors: As this is you jumping back in, don't feel the pressure of getting super expensive monitors right away. It saves money by having to buy several times through upgrading but your initial budget can go on just a single speaker if you wanted. I suggest something that has great sound, for capable mixing, sold as a pair/reasonable single pricing but not blowing your budget. The Focal Alpha 65 6.5" Powered Studio Monitor would be a great choice at $399 each. you could get the smaller size but bass response would be slightly less. The Alpha 80's are bit more expensive with more bass response and louder. The 60's sit right in the middle with good price bracket.

Audio interface. The Maschine and Akai are great and you can still use them with DAW's, but limited when it comes to mic pre's. Especially if you want a condenser which requires 48v phantom power. These groove boxes which are combo interfaces often only support dynamic mics sometimes including ADAT expansion, but then you have to get a separate mic preamp adding future costs. Save some expense and get a dedicated interface which supports both mic and DI input via combi. Some also include midi. I suggest something like the Focusrite Clarett 4Pre USB 18x8 Audio Interface. At $599 it's very reasonable and the Clarett pre's sound great. I suggest this one over the smaller 2pre model, due to if you want to expand you devices, you have more i/o to do it. Also if you build you equipment list with extra mics you can do multi-mic gtr recording, still one instrument but several mics, and you can still keep vocals set up ready as you have enough inputs. With two you may start to get frustrated swapping cables around cutting into composition/recording time.

Reason: Great choice, now a fully fledged DAW with a ton of instruments/devices. Also you can record your Maschine via Kontakt in it if you choose that one.

Akai/Maschine?: Going down the Reason route I suggest Maschine, simply because it brings access to a huge library of instruments via Native Instruments Kontakt and you'll be able to record these all in Reason. Akai MPC live is cool as it's more of its own box of sequencer, editor and of course sampler all on the unit itself, but for DAW integration and instruments to play with and expand through NI Komplete... I still think Maschine would suite your purpose more. you also have a few options with Maschine. The Mk3, the Jam and Mikro at different price points and as working alongside Reason any would be suitable, so check out some videos on each and see which one you think is what you need. Remember buy for purpose saves a lot of cash and unnecessary features can destroy budgets.

Condenser: Aston Origin... or at a push Aston Spirit for multi polar patterns. Amazing condenser mics and very good price.
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
I suggest:
Monitors: As this is you jumping back in, don't feel the pressure of getting super expensive monitors right away. It saves money by having to buy several times through upgrading but your initial budget can go on just a single speaker if you wanted. I suggest something that has great sound, for capable mixing, sold as a pair/reasonable single pricing but not blowing your budget. The Focal Alpha 65 6.5" Powered Studio Monitor would be a great choice at $399 each. you could get the smaller size but bass response would be slightly less. The Alpha 80's are bit more expensive with more bass response and louder. The 60's sit right in the middle with good price bracket.

Audio interface. The Maschine and Akai are great and you can still use them with DAW's, but limited when it comes to mic pre's. Especially if you want a condenser which requires 48v phantom power. These groove boxes which are combo interfaces often only support dynamic mics sometimes including ADAT expansion, but then you have to get a separate mic preamp adding future costs. Save some expense and get a dedicated interface which supports both mic and DI input via combi. Some also include midi. I suggest something like the Focusrite Clarett 4Pre USB 18x8 Audio Interface. At $599 it's very reasonable and the Clarett pre's sound great. I suggest this one over the smaller 2pre model, due to if you want to expand you devices, you have more i/o to do it. Also if you build you equipment list with extra mics you can do multi-mic gtr recording, still one instrument but several mics, and you can still keep vocals set up ready as you have enough inputs. With two you may start to get frustrated swapping cables around cutting into composition/recording time.

Reason: Great choice, now a fully fledged DAW with a ton of instruments/devices. Also you can record your Maschine via Kontakt in it if you choose that one.

Akai/Maschine?: Going down the Reason route I suggest Maschine, simply because it brings access to a huge library of instruments via Native Instruments Kontakt and you'll be able to record these all in Reason. Akai MPC live is cool as it's more of its own box of sequencer, editor and of course sampler all on the unit itself, but for DAW integration and instruments to play with and expand through NI Komplete... I still think Maschine would suite your purpose more. you also have a few options with Maschine. The Mk3, the Jam and Mikro at different price points and as working alongside Reason any would be suitable, so check out some videos on each and see which one you think is what you need. Remember buy for purpose saves a lot of cash and unnecessary features can destroy budgets.

Condenser: Aston Origin... or at a push Aston Spirit for multi polar patterns. Amazing condenser mics and very good price.

Whew! Thanks so much! Just last night I was kinda sorta decided upon Reason + Maschine Mk3 w Kontact after some research, but it's nice to know that's a solid direction and not just my somewhat ill-informed whimsy.

I will look into your interface advice. I would rather save more and buy once, tbh, so I will be investing in one that can handle what I need it to.

I could cut the Maschine out of this equation entirely, but it's just too cool. I have such fond memories of my MPC, and really like grooveboxes in general for sketchpad work, portability/live performance, and beat creation in general. Going Mk3 because it adds some elements of the Jam that I like but seems more fully-featured for the studio. I can tell it will inspire me creatively.
 

Twenty Three

Member
Oct 28, 2017
316
Maschine mk3 is great. Intuitive. Fast workflow. Serves as an audio interface (2 mono or stereo) with midi. Komplete vsts are good. Nice library.

I barely use it myself, as I am a hardware guy, but if I was ITB, it would be my main production box.

Plus, the industrial design is nice. It looks beautiful. Lol.

Edit. Or you could go Push 2 and get Ableton. Get a controller and a daw. No experience of it though.
 

deafmedal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
546
You have to download a thing to download a thing to be able to download a thing that is free!! You should be able to simply drop it into your vst plugins folder and that's it.
They are mostly all obtuse. I reckon with the various video game services being easy to work with we are spoiled. Stuff like UA is mostly easy to install and authorize, of course it has it's own drawbacks but I'd be a liar if I said I didn't like the ease of everything being tied to my UA account, no faffing about with codes and downloads. I've purposely stayed away from software that required a dongle (save UA ;P) and actually don't mind the "Service Center" approach as it links up and shows me what I own and makes authorizing fairly painless. If someone could do a "Steam" of music software... omgdrool. Won't happen tho.
Me neither, I'd never get anything done 0_o

you have to set up all connections yourself and you have tons of cables.
That part especially appeals to me, some folks are going to be more inclined to want hands on control- turning a pot has a wonderful tactile feel that a mouse cannot replicate. There is not a midi controller that can replicate modular synthesis. You could Frankenstein some shit together but it would not be ideal.

But the best reason to stay away?
(see quote below)
Buddies, I am about to spend WAY too much on this lol.
Welcome to the club, pal. In all honesty though, it's not really that much money and if you stick with it for a while you'll spend a small fortune in no time!
It's crazy how different it is diving in these days compared to before. There was no advice other than in-person before, but here we are now.
Agreed, and there are YouTubes and forums/reviews to read- hell you can download a manual before ever touching a bit of kit. Answers are out there but I'll be damned if there wasn't almost too much stuff, easy to get overwhelmed.

I would rather save more and buy once, tbh
Consider buying what you need at first and adding to it. If, for example, you picked up the monitors ($800) mentioned by Chris Metal, Maschine ($600), Reason ($400), Sennheiser HD 280 Pro cans ($100), and a dynamic mic ( Shure SM58 $125, with cable and stand) you could have a great starting set up that is right at your budget that you can add on to as needed/money becomes available. Gives you time to learn your software/controller along with the ability to record with the mic right away while you save up/research a proper interface and condenser mic. If you need to record a guitar in the mean time, pick up a DI box or mic it like they used to do!
Or you could go Push 2 and get Ableton. Get a controller and a daw. No experience of it though.
This is a good option but way out of the price range. I would only recommend Live Suite, regular Live is pretty bare bones for a beginner wrt instruments and sounds. That would end up costing 3/4's of Speely 's budget with no monitors or interface let alone anything else. Push and Live are fucking great, but it ain't cheap.
 

SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
I just want to add something to the people who aren't sure what DAW to pick: Try the demos of a couple of them and figure out what workflow works best for you. There's no difference in sound quality, they just do some things differently because they may be designed more for recording or live performances or automation etc...

Also ask yourself first: "What music do I want to create and what do I need for it?"
 

Chris Metal

Avatar Master Painter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,582
United Kingdom
I just want to add something to the people who aren't sure what DAW to pick: Try the demos of a couple of them and figure out what workflow works best for you. There's no difference in sound quality, they just do some things differently because they may be designed more for recording or live performances or automation etc...

Also ask yourself first: "What music do I want to create and what do I need for it?"
Not entirely true when it comes to SRC. Depending on how good the DAW audio engine is it can make some surprising differences in sample rate conversion, but most of these are barely audible anyway. A interesting comparison site for reference...
http://src.infinitewave.ca

But in cases like this as I said audibly it'll be very difficult to hear in a lot of cases between the top DAWs, and as you mentioned it is more about work flow and getting the best results for you.
 

Jaws

Member
Oct 29, 2017
80
That's great! Welcome to the awful world of carrying a lot of stuff around :D
I don't think we have a Drum-Era OT yet :(

I've been drumming for a few years, and love it. Not a pro, just a "serious" hobbyist.
IMO, you should try some stuff by yourself first, at least for a couple of weeks or a month. Then I'd definitely recommend a private, live, teacher for 1 to 3 months. This will allow you to learn good posture and how to practice.
This path can work as long as you're not easily put off by difficulties. Else and if you can afford it, go straight to a teacher!

For starting to learn stuff, I would definitely recommend advancing in the following 3 areas simultaneously:

1) Spend some time learning basic drum notation. This will open a world of practice materials.
This seems like a good place to start, but I am sure there will be other sites with this info.
http://drumlessonsbeginners.com/drum-lesson/how-to-read-drum-sheet-music/

2) Start reading about, listening, watching and playing the basic rudiments. This is the "bread and butter" of drumming.
Work from the basics up: single stroke roll , double strokes, paradiddles. I guess you could skip flams for a while.
These are some great resources:
- http://vicfirth.com/40-essential-rudiments/
- First couple of pages of Stick Control, by George Lawrence Stona (you can find the kindle version for ~$12 at amazon)

3) Basic independence stuff.
I guess this depends a lot on the kind of genres you are interested in.
I started with rock and it was a nice difficult ramp onward. You will get tons of materials on "basic rock beat" etc on youtube.
When you are able to read drum notation, stick to a book and work it out. You will advance tons!

I also vouch for a Mike Johnson online lessons monthly subscription, I guess it is around 25-30USD/month. This is a great deal, specially if you live in a city where live lessons are hard to find.
Great teacher and community. TONS of material available to study :)

Get a metronome app on your phone, learn how to use it together with the material you are studying. If possible, try to always practice with a metronome!

Keep chipping away at it and you'll have tons of fun! If you need any help, just pm me!

Thanks for such an informative response! Ive bought the stick control book and a Remo Practice pad, so going to have a go with those to see how i get on. Once I've got those down, ill probably get some lessons just to make sure i get my posture right, as I've read its quite hard to undo once you've got a bad one. Thanks again
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,227
Mementos
I forgot how hard creating music is. I barely have something right now. I don't want to take too long with this as I'm on a payment plan and want to drop this program service before the next payment. I've been looking at YouTube vids, but they're not really helping. i'm not sure if it's something I can learn like that or it's something you figure out on your own.
 

Twenty Three

Member
Oct 28, 2017
316
I forgot how hard creating music is. I barely have something right now. I don't want to take too long with this as I'm on a payment plan and want to drop this program service before the next payment. I've been looking at YouTube vids, but they're not really helping. i'm not sure if it's something I can learn like that or it's something you figure out on your own.
How Long have you been making music, what are you making, do you have any musical background and what issues are you facing?
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,227
Mementos
I've tried off and on since about 2011. I'm trying to make a song for a game something foresty. I'm not sure where to go after this inital notes I made or whatever. I don't know how to describe it.
 

BeeDog

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,556
The biggest issue so far with producing music is:

(1) not having enough time to properly sit down and learn the ins and outs of mixing, track progressions, the functionality in the DAW, the plugins, automation and so on.
(2) Learning how to mix all the various elements together in order to make a coherent track. So far, I am bad-to-average in making cool riffs, basslines, etc., i.e. all the elements separately, but for me everything goes to hell when I start combining them into something that even resembles a track. Just a basic thing like ducking/sidechaining and frequency ranges is throwing my head in.

I started using FL Studio to begin with since I figured its piano roll would be a great starting point to make 4/4 techno tracks, but here I am...
 

Nyx

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
845
Utrecht, The Netherlands
If you start a new track and the bassline f.e. is the first element you created, do you go from there?

That's how I start jamming, create an element and go from there. Let's say you made a bassline with notes on 3, 6, 9 and 12. I'd load up another instrument and experiment with tapping keys while the initial bassline loop is playing. It could be something basic like a low tone on 1 and a high tone on 7. It might not even sound good yet together with the bassline, but when I experiment with some added effects like f.e. a 2-step delay and all of a sudden it sounds like the 2nd instrument is working together with the bassline loop. I'm always listening for empty spaces in the loop so I know where I can add another sound. So essentially it's just a lot of experimentation, what happens to this sound or loop when I add this? Or twist that knob? Then when I have a loop containing like 12 different instruments I start copy pasting everything I made so far so that I have that same loop but now for a few minutes, then by deleting separate instrument loops, the track almost starts building itself.

Long story short, I'd say go with the flow. Also, try and recreate tracks you are a fan of, listen to what is happening and see if you can get the same effects. It also helped me understand better how tracks are arranged.

edit : I'm finalising this track atm, feel like only the intro needs some more work:

https://soundcloud.com/nyx_1978/george-hefner-ulrike

Any ideas here? :)
 
Last edited:

BeeDog

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,556
If you start a new track and the bassline f.e. is the first element you created, do you go from there?

That's how I start jamming, create an element and go from there. Let's say you made a bassline with notes on 3, 6, 9 and 12. I'd load up another instrument and experiment with tapping keys while the initial bassline loop is playing. It could be something basic like a low tone on 1 and a high tone on 7. It might not even sound good yet together with the bassline, but when I experiment with some added effects like f.e. a 2-step delay and all of a sudden it sounds like the 2nd instrument is working together with the bassline loop. I'm always listening for empty spaces in the loop so I know where I can add another sound. So essentially it's just a lot of experimentation, what happens to this sound or loop when I add this? Or twist that knob? Then when I have a loop containing like 12 different instruments I start copy pasting everything I made so far so that I have that same loop but now for a few minutes, then by deleting separate instrument loops, the track almost starts building itself.

Long story short, I'd say go with the flow. Also, try and recreate tracks you are a fan of, listen to what is happening and see if you can get the same effects. It also helped me understand better how tracks are arranged.

edit : I'm finalising this track atm, feel like only the intro needs some more work:

https://soundcloud.com/nyx_1978/george-hefner-ulrike

Any ideas here? :)

Thanks for the reply. I'm a big techno buff, so the one thing I really try to nail is a proper bassline, with heavy reverberation akin to that deeper, monotonous techno style that is becoming popular recently. But even there I usually tend to get stuck, especially when it comes to building a proper signal/processing chain in order to get that booming bassline. Tinkering a lot gets me to a certain point, but then I tend to get stuck (read: not invest enough time) trying to mix it all together to make it sound good. I still can't grasp the basics of ducking/side-chaining, and I have a feeling that's one of the main points hindering me at the moment.

Your track sound great, wish I could get close to that!
 

Nyx

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
845
Utrecht, The Netherlands
Sidechain compression and such is great, but I'd start with good use of stereo panning first. If you see L and R as 9 till 3 o'clock, there's a lot of 'time' inbetween to place sounds.

So say you have a synth pad running in the background, put it 50% to the left, while your lead synth goes 40% to the right. This also is good for drum sounds. Position some hats more to the left and others to the right and so on. I just keep the kick drum in the middle, at 12 o'clock so to speak. With this kind of spacing between sounds you can already get far and things won't sound cluttered. :)
 

toku

沢山特別
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,121
Ne Monde
Sidechain compression and such is great, but I'd start with good use of stereo panning first. If you see L and R as 9 till 3 o'clock, there's a lot of 'time' inbetween to place sounds.

So say you have a synth pad running in the background, put it 50% to the left, while your lead synth goes 40% to the right. This also is good for drum sounds. Position some hats more to the left and others to the right and so on. I just keep the kick drum in the middle, at 12 o'clock so to speak. With this kind of spacing between sounds you can already get far and things won't sound cluttered. :)

great tool to help you with this visually is Izotopes Ozone Stereo Imager and it's free!:

https://www.izotope.com/en/products/master-and-deliver/ozone/ozone-imager.html

It's based off their premium version, great for what they give away. I believe the biggest thing missing in it compared to the premium version is multiband stuff.

 

SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
Learning how to mix all the various elements together in order to make a coherent track. So far, I am bad-to-average in making cool riffs, basslines, etc., i.e. all the elements separately, but for me everything goes to hell when I start combining them into something that even resembles a track.
Are you talking about mixing as in "volume" or mixing together as in "making sure the composition of basslines/leads/drums etc don't clash"?
Just a basic thing like ducking/sidechaining and frequency ranges is throwing my head in.
Sidechaining is pretty easy, how do you do it? What sounds wrong in your opinion?
 

Twenty Three

Member
Oct 28, 2017
316
I am a hardware guy. First principle, build a beat or sculpt a sound, start feeding in a melody, a harmony. Noodle on the keyboard. Get ideas.

You make the sound, you are halfway to mixing. Things fall in their frequency ranges.

Sometimes I read software guys who are taking on too much, because they have everything at their fingers in the same box. Way I see it, you don't need to even think about compression, EQ, or mastering till you have sketched your track and committed to audio. Good sound design at the start will solve 80% of the mix later.
 

BeeDog

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,556
Thanks all yet again, appreciate the shoutout regarding stereo panning. Haven't even considered that.

Are you talking about mixing as in "volume" or mixing together as in "making sure the composition of basslines/leads/drums etc don't clash"?

Sidechaining is pretty easy, how do you do it? What sounds wrong in your opinion?

For the first question, it's the second, avoiding clashes and stuff hogging the same frequency ranges.

For sidechaining, I pretty much don't do it at all. I tried routing the different busses in FL Studio to make a simple kick duck any other sound in any other buss, but I can't wrap my head around it yet and constantly fail.
 

SweetVermouth

Banned
Mar 5, 2018
4,272
avoiding clashes and stuff hogging the same frequency ranges.
Pay attention to the range from ~200Hz tp ~500Hz and EQ your instruments there. In this range a lot of instruments play there: You have the bass and it's overtones, the snare, lead synths, pads, the bass drum briefly goes through there etc. etc. and it all just adds together so try lowering it. In electronic music you hear lot of people claiming "high pass everything except bass!!!" but this can eliminate a lot of needed frequencies too, but in general instruments that have frequencies in that are: try to make them less loud with your EQ.
I tried routing the different busses in FL Studio to make a simple kick duck any other sound in any other buss, but I can't wrap my head around it yet and constantly fail.
Here is a simple guide how to do it:
1. Route your bass drum to another bus AND make the volume -infinite db, you want the bass drum go at zero volume into the bus
2. Insert Fruity Limiter, click on COMP and right click on the sidechain input number
3. It should show the original bus where your bass drum came from, select that
4. In Fruity Limiter lower the threshold (THRES) and up the ratio to your liking
5. Done