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MusicianERA |OT| Producers and Artists Welcome
- Thread starter Kyzer
- Start date
some interesting writing for anyone here sending off their stuff to be mastered:
https://bobmaccsblog.wordpress.com
some good stuff about mixing yourself in there too
https://bobmaccsblog.wordpress.com
some good stuff about mixing yourself in there too
Definitely glad to see this thread, hopefully I'll have some things to contribute.
Speaking of, Waves Audio is having their Black Friday sale if anyone uses their plugins.
Speaking of, Waves Audio is having their Black Friday sale if anyone uses their plugins.
Ah, so here is the right thread. Glad to see it, hopefully I can contribute and learn a thing or two as well.
Speaking of, Waves Audio is having their Black Friday sale if anyone uses their Plugins.
Speaking of, Waves Audio is having their Black Friday sale if anyone uses their Plugins.
OP
OP
Hey guys, I opted our thread into the community spotlight rotations so that we can get even more musicians in here.
As such I will be updating the OP. I was thinking maybe we could add some music from users here to spotlight, so if you want to have your profile and a song along with a blurb about yourself and what youre working on next feel free to post, chat in discord, or message me. I'll do my best keep the OP up to date relatively often.
Now to get to that and listening to what y'all have posted so far!
Btw toku do you master your own stuff most of the time? What rms do you master to? This question is @everybody else too who masters their own stuff
As such I will be updating the OP. I was thinking maybe we could add some music from users here to spotlight, so if you want to have your profile and a song along with a blurb about yourself and what youre working on next feel free to post, chat in discord, or message me. I'll do my best keep the OP up to date relatively often.
Now to get to that and listening to what y'all have posted so far!
Btw toku do you master your own stuff most of the time? What rms do you master to? This question is @everybody else too who masters their own stuff
RMS levels aren't very useful because they're driven upwards by bass. That means that quiet mixes can have high RMS levels if your mix is bass heavy. If you're already aware of that before mastering, as you should be, you don't need an RMS meter to tell you to either go back into your mix and adjust the bass or cut some low end from your mastering EQ to allow some more room for loudness. Your ears should be telling you that before you look at any meters.
Hey everyone, just saying hello. A little background on me...
Been drumming for about 17 years now, went to one of those over priced jazz schools, dropped out because of gigging/teaching/making money. Since then I've toured across North America, done a lot of cover band work to make a steady income (did the hotel circuit in SE Asia a few years back, did cruise line work). Problem is I always only played drums and occasionally sang. Been writing music for years but never made a go at a solo career. Just got a bunch of stuff for recording and learning how to record/mix/produce for the first time. It's incredibly exciting and I'm getting the same joy out of it that I got when I first started drumming.
Currently laying down really rough demos to get the hang of different software, I play all the instruments right now. Hoping to have something to show by the end of the year even if it's still in demo form.
Browsed through the thread and there's a lot of good stuff in here! I'll try my best to contribute soon.
Been drumming for about 17 years now, went to one of those over priced jazz schools, dropped out because of gigging/teaching/making money. Since then I've toured across North America, done a lot of cover band work to make a steady income (did the hotel circuit in SE Asia a few years back, did cruise line work). Problem is I always only played drums and occasionally sang. Been writing music for years but never made a go at a solo career. Just got a bunch of stuff for recording and learning how to record/mix/produce for the first time. It's incredibly exciting and I'm getting the same joy out of it that I got when I first started drumming.
Currently laying down really rough demos to get the hang of different software, I play all the instruments right now. Hoping to have something to show by the end of the year even if it's still in demo form.
Browsed through the thread and there's a lot of good stuff in here! I'll try my best to contribute soon.
I'm primarily a mastering engineer (though do some mixing as well). Kree has covered some key fundamentals. However when dealing with dynamic range, RMS has an important place as it is there as an average measurement of voltage of electrical signals (root-mean-square), but you can't get a peak average from this measurement system. Peak on the other hand is useful to check clipping issues as it's a virtually instantaneous response in proportion to voltage of audio likewise you can't get average levels from peak. RMS however is closer to the human ear in how is responds with signal-to-noise ratio. I personally use 3 systems. Peak, RMS and primarily The K-System while mastering, this way I can compare dynamic range, averages and peak levels effectively. Also while metering is important, you'll want to primarily make sure you're not clipping when metering, while also not sucking life out of your mixes and music by destroying the dynamic range and signal-to-noise ratio... people do this way too often by too much limiting and compression, often on the mix bus. If you interleaved stereo mixdown looks like a brick, you're doing it wrong, and if you get a master back like that, doubly so. You'll find tracks have far more impact and punch with more dynamic range, than just squashing them and making them loud with a brickwall limiter. Finally like Kree said, your best metering tool is your ears, with those you should be able to tell digital clipping/distortion, what and where are effective areas to boost/cut EQ and know what tools will effectively provide the results you're hoping to achieve.
Oh one more thing... reference tracks of commercially released songs (in .WAV/.AAC) of the same genre that you feel inspired by while composing or just like the sound of are incredibly important tools to use if you want to achieve or have an idea of similar RMS levels on your system.
Nothing really to add but the releases I've had on the label so far have been mastered at Ten Eight Seven Mastering
In terms of my own stuff I throw up online etc. everything Chris and Kree have said are spot on. I don't really put stuff on my master channel unless I'm throwing it on soundcloud where some punch and loudness seems to be the name of the game.
In terms of my own stuff I throw up online etc. everything Chris and Kree have said are spot on. I don't really put stuff on my master channel unless I'm throwing it on soundcloud where some punch and loudness seems to be the name of the game.
Hi guys, I didn't know there was a thread like this at the old place, glad to be here now. I'm a songwriter/composer, musician, producer etc. and I'm nearing the birth of a new project that should be out before the end of the year. It will actually be a double album divided in 3 (maybe 4) parts, the first two parts are already done and mastered. I'm waiting for 2 videos to be ready before launching this whole thing... and I'm a bit nervous since it'll be the first time I release something entirely in English (being french native).
Other than that, I scored and did SFX for a couple of indie games, short films and TV/internet ads. Prior to this, I played synths & percussion in a band (in french) and we got pretty good sales for a totally indie band selling 12000 copies of our first and only album.
Other than that, I scored and did SFX for a couple of indie games, short films and TV/internet ads. Prior to this, I played synths & percussion in a band (in french) and we got pretty good sales for a totally indie band selling 12000 copies of our first and only album.
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If you buy 9 now you get a free upgrade but existing users have to pay.
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As far as mastering goes I have just enough mental bandwidth to cover mixing and sound design, and that's it. I've tried reading and watching stuff on it and the material just slides off my brain like water on car wax. It's complete wizardry to me. Right now I just put my stuff through cloudbounce to get the loudness up and glue stuff together, and then once I decide my songs are worthy of it I plan on paying a mastering engineer.
I just use a lot of spacing and listen to a track through several speakers and adjust volume levels so that it sounds good through all speakers. Then a track is 'mastered' for me. ;)
Ha, I get obsessive about a mix sometimes and can't stop tweaking shit. If I had to throw mastering into the equation on top of that I'd never get anything done.
It's actually worth paying for mastering IMO. When it's done by a pro with analog equipments it can "level up" your recordings by a large margin; not just in terms of volume but also to make it sound better glued together with subtle tweaks and effects applied to the whole tracks. A good sound engineer will also know which frequency to boost and what should be cut to enhance your music.
Also, you can get advices from a professional to help you tweak your future mixes and avoid common mistakes.
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oh :(If you buy 9 now you get a free upgrade but existing users have to pay.
You definitely need to have a good mix and make the appropriate adjustments before going into the mastering stage. That said if you use the right metering you can see how much your mix is being compressed along with RMS, which going hand in hand with your ear & having a good mix can make RMS helpful.
I use Pro-L for this reason with the white line representing RMS. (This isn't my screenshot, just a stock one from the FabFilter website)
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I'm gradually amassing a basic hardware setup
Korg Volca Beats/Bass/Keys
Beatstep Pro
Keystep
Behringer mixer
TC Electronics Reberb guitar pedal (a really odd one)
I need to get a Roland Go Mixer to record and perhaps a couple more synths. Rueing the day I didn't get the JU-06. Really would love the TR09 since the price drop.
Korg Volca Beats/Bass/Keys
Beatstep Pro
Keystep
Behringer mixer
TC Electronics Reberb guitar pedal (a really odd one)
I need to get a Roland Go Mixer to record and perhaps a couple more synths. Rueing the day I didn't get the JU-06. Really would love the TR09 since the price drop.
I have the Volca Beats also but I think I'm going to get rid of it, I just really don't like most of the sounds it does. The Volca Sample on the other hand is great, especially with its isolators
I know it's kind of lame lacking this much knowledge on the production side of things in this thread, but I'm much more confident in my abilities as a vocalist.
I really want to increase the sound/mix quality of my YouTube videos, particularly because the next one I'm doing is a promo for a Kids Help Phone event. I did it last year and it was pretty well received as a promo video, but I really just tend to play around with things blindly in GarageBand (yes, that's what I use. lol) until it sounds OK.
Any advice here? I can post a video for reference if y'all want/need to hear how it sounds right now. My videos are very simple though, in that I just drag an mp3 track into the software and then record my vocal through my mic. I find that it's really hard for me to get an even sound (without dropping too quiet or sounding too hot), and just achieving a smooth studio quality sound in general..
I really want to increase the sound/mix quality of my YouTube videos, particularly because the next one I'm doing is a promo for a Kids Help Phone event. I did it last year and it was pretty well received as a promo video, but I really just tend to play around with things blindly in GarageBand (yes, that's what I use. lol) until it sounds OK.
Any advice here? I can post a video for reference if y'all want/need to hear how it sounds right now. My videos are very simple though, in that I just drag an mp3 track into the software and then record my vocal through my mic. I find that it's really hard for me to get an even sound (without dropping too quiet or sounding too hot), and just achieving a smooth studio quality sound in general..
I don't have much of a clue when it comes to getting a proper mix or mastering. I once stumbled upon this image (https://snag.gy/hAweTj.jpg) and use it since as reference. I saved some presets out to get a basic starting point in my projects, like one that cuts out unnecessary lows and so on.
Recently I havent really managed to finish a song but usually I would fine tune those things when im done with it.
I just realized that im guilty of having a limiter and compressor on my master...
Recently I havent really managed to finish a song but usually I would fine tune those things when im done with it.
I just realized that im guilty of having a limiter and compressor on my master...
I don't know much about garage band but try to use a compressor and a limiter on your voice track and something along the lines of a volume maximizer. If you feel the need, try to reduce the low freq and boost the middle ones.
Yeah see I do try using a compressor.. Maybe I'm just not using it right? :/ I'm not sure...
Regarding the freq reductions/boosts, do you mean in the equalizer??
There's different kinds of compressors, a limiter is one type. You can have multiple compressors on the same master, even multiple limiters, etc.
I'd suggest doing some research on how to use compression in general terms, from there there's tons of information and videos out there on vocal compression & other processing.
Yes he means EQing.
Make sure your track is maximized at around - 6db, cut the low and mostly inaudible low frequencies, cut the high ones too as long as it sounds right to your ears using the equalizer(s) (it will help remove the noise as well). Then, compress it.
If you're mainly just releasing stuff online and you're not sending it off to be properly mastered it's not really a problem. It can just breed bad habits should you get to that point.
Beats is kind of 606-ish, needs that snare mod though. Definitely suits the low key Pye Corner Audio vibe.
Proper EQ and compression will get you like 90% of the way there as far as processing goes, but before you even do that, trying to get a good recording of the source is the most important thing because a bad recording is bad forever. Be sure to use a pop filter to dampen explosive consonant sounds like P's, B's, and D's. Fans and air conditioners should be off, windows and doors closed, phones muted, pets outside the room, keep the mic away from any other equipment that might be humming or whirring, and try to maintain an appropriate distance from the mic depending on the strength of your vocal performance by backing away a bit when you get louder and getting closer when you get quieter.
After you've got your recording:
Use a noise gate at the beginning of your effects chain to mute the silences in your performance because even really shitty mics pic up background noise and you will hear it when you're not hearing your voice. There are also plugins like Breath Control that algorithmically remove the breaths you take, but you can just cut those out manually.
With an EQ, roll off some of the low end under 100-150hz, take some of the boominess out between 300-700hz, a little boost in the 3k-5khz range to add presence, and maybe a small high shelf boost around 12kz to give it a little airiness.
For compression settings, use a fast attack to tame any strong transients. If there are huge disparities in the dynamics, meaning a mix of loud and quiet parts, maybe consider multi-stage compression in small increments instead of a single stage of drastic compression; for example you could chain two compressors each at a ratio of 2:1 instead of one compressor at 4:1, and adjust the threshold for each one more delicately. The thing to remember about compression is that it squashes things from the top and the bottom; you're bringing the noise floor closer to your voice, so you have to be careful not to overdo it. Compressing gently in multiple stages is going to produce a different result than compressing drastically at just one stage. You can also try compressing before and after EQing.
After that, some kind of saturation can add a little warmth and depth - I usually go for tape on vocals. You could also do some further EQing or use a de-esser (which is essentially just a narrowband compressor set to a specific frequency range) to remove any siblance in the 4k-7khz range (those annoying SSSSSSS sounds that can be ear piercing).
Holy smokes. This post was incredible, and actually made sense for the most part. Thank you so much!!! :D :D :D
After several comments on YouTube about it, I finally did start using a pop shield about a year ago, and I found that it does absolutely make a drastic difference. Makes me feel dumb that I didn't use one earlier. (Two different John Legend songs, one without a pop shield and one with a pop shield.)
Regarding the actual recording itself before actually editing, compressing etc, I do find that's something I can sometimes struggle with.. Particularly the volume. I can get kind of loud when I sing in the upper register, which gets too hot on the mic, but if I turn the mic recording volume down, the rest of my vocals are too quiet.. But I guess it's best to record something like that then edit rather than recording vocals that are too hot, yeah??
With the EQ, when you mention "roll off some of the low end under 100-150hz", could you clarify a bit more on that? I think that was the only part of your explanation that I was a bit confused about! I'm not 100% sure what you mean by rolling off :).
I've always only used one compressor, and I find that it doesn't always help. I had actually never even considered the idea of using two compressors on the same track. So, basically, using two allows for a more subtle compression? That might actually make a world of difference in my case...
Again, thanks again!! This post helps A TON! <3
the snare is really what was putting me off about it, it's just so weak and awful. I've heard Floating Points use it though
If you're not comfortable adjusting your position in front of the mic as you perform, definitely do it in steps. Record your quiet parts close to the mic, stop, then record your loud parts further away, then paste it all together, but generally you should not be adjusting your recording volume in the middle of any of that. Just make sure you're never so loud that you're clipping.
Here's a picture of the EQ I described.
https://i.imgur.com/i2rYeTR.jpg
The first pole is rolled off at 150hz - that's a low cut filter, meaning everything below that selected frequency will be gradually rolled off, as in not heard. Depending on the EQ you're using, the slope can be adjusted to be steeper or more gradual like the one I used.
As you can see with the second pole set to 500hz, it's not a total cut, but enough that some of the information there will be reduced.
The third pole is a gentle midrange boost.
The fourth pole is a gentle high shelf boost - I think visually that should be self explanatory. It looks like a shelf.
- Correct, there's always ways to boost volume in mixing, don't record hot. You also can record directly into processing effects.
- Roll off, cut, etc all mean similar things in different forms. Basically it means high pass or low pass EQing. All EQs should have that at its basic form, but in a more advanced EQ software a roll off vs a cut, say in the context of a high pass filter, would start at no volume from X frequency, and make a curve all the way up to Y frequency. An extreme example of a highpass cut would be a full on, brickwall removal of a certain amount of the low end. See: https://imgur.com/a/DHN9F
- Like I said in an earlier post, there's lots of different kinds of compressors. Different purposes and even different sounds - two compressors that on paper do exactly the same thing can have entirely different sounds. For example the default compressor in Garage Band is not going to sound the same as a dedicated software compressor such as a Waves CLA 76.
I've heard it used as is on a Throwing Snow track. AFX did a demo song for Korg which has the snare mod in effect.
https://soundcloud.com/korg/korg-funk-5
I just need someone to do it for me.
quick google led to this
http://www.animalfactoryamps.com/si...A-The-Korg-Volca-Beats-Snare-Mod---now-easier
I don't know how to solder (yet) but I'm interested in learning. that post references another gearslutz post with more mods too, maybe worth looking into
If you're not comfortable recording your vocals with a compressor in the tracking stage to control some of the disparity between transients, and if you're having issue's controlling levels post record between loud and soft vocal parts during mix, the first thing you should reach for is Volume Automation or alternatively Clip Gain Automation over a compressor... you can tame some of the differences here, and then use further transient control with mild compression via a dedicated compressor plugin/hardware. usually 4:1 - 6:1 ratio, medium attack and release, you want to adjust these to taste to have the compressor move with the music at around 2-3 dB gain reduction. If you've done volume automation, or clip gain automation your compressor shouldn't be working as hard and will sound more natural.
Example differences of both at -14.7 dBFS:
Clip Gain:
Volume Automation:
BTW are you using plate reverb and delays on your vocals as well, it very much helps to sit something in a mix if those effects are applied, even if mildly.
With hi-pass filters, please do not shove them on everything just because. While tempting to think "oh 20Hz and below isn't ever needed" there are fundamental issues with overuse. There are certain instruments it works for, cymbals/HH for example, but using an equaliser will inherently cause phase shift in recorded tracks, subsequently you will get phase correlation issues with the overuse of HPF (high pass filter) especially when used with multiple microphone recorded instruments, such as drums or guitars. You end up with thin sound recordings in the mix even though you're trying to get rid of elements which could cause problems in the mix. You can tackle this by bussing multiple tracks to one and using a HPF on just that, for example, snare top and snare bottom > snare bus, and then phase correlation is kept. If you must HPF just the snare botton though, use a linear phase eq... those will prevent phase shift. You'll always get phase shift with EQ movements, it's the nature of equalisation, but it can be a negative in something where a HPF is used a lot. Not only that, but a lot of energy in music is in the lower frequencies, 40-80Hz... these are very important for systems that can handle these frequencies, and just cutting them out because a car stereo or your room might not be properly treated for these frequencies isn't the way to go, they move the air and the feeling in your body. When you go to a club the thump thump you feel in your chest isn't loudness, it's low frequency energy resonating. This isn't saying don't use a HPF, but try to use it right... on singular elements, or linear phase for multiple.
Nothing stopping you using compression on the master, just use is sparingly. The limiter on a Mix Bus I would say be very careful of though, simply because compression ratios are naturally much higher than that of traditional compressors, anything from 10:1 upwards of 20:1 or higher, with the control focus on input threshold, release and attack and sometimes a couple of customised setting, such as soft clip and lookahead. This isn't good to maintain balance or dynamics in your mix process, and will negatively impact dynamic range and you'll just end up fighting a difficult mix. Where as compressors you have far more control over ratios, knee and often more. Compression on a MB should be very mild, just to provide a little colour/glue usually (along with mix bus EQ, such as a Pultec), and you should mix into it, rather than add the compressor post finished mix. You'd then bounce it all, including mix bus processing (remember no limiter on mix bus has been used), ready for mastering. If you limit your mix bus, a mastering engineer doesn't have much to work with.
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If you're not comfortable adjusting your position in front of the mic as you perform, definitely do it in steps. Record your quiet parts close to the mic, stop, then record your loud parts further away, then paste it all together, but generally you should not be adjusting your recording volume in the middle of any of that. Just make sure you're never so loud that you're clipping.
Here's a picture of the EQ I described.
https://i.imgur.com/i2rYeTR.jpg
The first pole is rolled off at 150hz - that's a low cut filter, meaning everything below that selected frequency will be gradually rolled off, as in not heard. Depending on the EQ you're using, the slope can be adjusted to be steeper or more gradual like the one I used.
As you can see with the second pole set to 500hz, it's not a total cut, but enough that some of the information there will be reduced.
The third pole is a gentle midrange boost.
The fourth pole is a gentle high shelf boost - I think visually that should be self explanatory. It looks like a shelf.
That image really helps me out! I'm definitely more visual when it comes to this stuff. Thanks for that!! :) It definitely makes sense. I'm going to give that a shot when I record the promo this weekend! I'm singing at an NHL game this Monday so I'm trying to pace my vocal a little bit.
Regarding doing the compression in bits and pieces, I try to do the recording all in one, because I film the video at the same time as the audio rather than dubbing the audio over a lip-sync. I'm not that proficient in video editing either, so it's easiest for me to just do it all live at once :P. But I think I'm going to play around with using two compressors! I've never thought of doing that!
Again, thank you so much for the top notch advice, Kree. I really appreciate it!!
Okay, so a lower recording volume is definitely better than recording a bit hot. In that case, is the compressor also used to bring up the quieter vocals and make it sound full?
I definitely think I'm going to try out two compressors.. If that doesn't work, it'll be back to the old drawing board for me lmao. Thanks!!
Not so much delays, but I do use reverb a little bit! Funny enough, though, I find that reverb makes my vocals sound slightly hotter than they already do, particularly in the upper register... Again, though, maybe that'll fix itself once I record and compress the vocals properly??If you're not comfortable recording your vocals with a compressor in the tracking stage to control some of the disparity between transients, and if you're having issue's controlling levels post record between loud and soft vocal parts during mix, the first thing you should reach for is Volume Automation or alternatively Clip Gain Automation over a compressor... you can tame some of the differences here, and then use further transient control with mild compression via a dedicated compressor plugin/hardware. usually 4:1 - 6:1 ratio, medium attack and release, you want to adjust these to taste to have the compressor move with the music at around 2-3 dB gain reduction. If you've done volume automation, or clip gain automation your compressor shouldn't be working as hard and will sound more natural.
Example differences of both at -14.7 dBFS:
Clip Gain:
Volume Automation:
BTW are you using plate reverb and delays on your vocals as well, it very much helps to sit something in a mix if those effects are applied, even if mildly.
Those automation(s) seem promising, actually!! Are they plugins that I can just use in GarageBand?
..... I probably (definitely) really should look into getting myself a better software tbh... LOL
Yeah you'd use makeup gain to do that really. "Sounding full" is relative to the song that you're producing - you may need very little, or you might need more than just things like compressors and EQs.
The two compressors advice for more control is good advice, but keep in mind that it's definitely not a traditional method, so don't break a sweat if that doesn't work for you. The best advice I can give is just experiment and try all sorts of different methods, see what works for you.
Thanks! :) Luckily I don't have a ton going on this weekend, so I'll probably record and play around to see what kinda results I can get. I'll definitely share the finished product with you guys to see if you have any feedback for me!!
Are you using aux sends to your reverb/delays?
Also go into Mix and press [A] or click automation button:
More info here: https://support.apple.com/kb/PH24988?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US
Honestly, I just see a sort of master reverb knob at the bottom and I just turn that knob to the level of reverb I like.. I have no idea how else to do it LOL!! Please don't judge x_xAre you using aux sends to your reverb/delays?
Also go into Mix and press [A] or click automation button:in the track view.
More info here: https://support.apple.com/kb/PH24988?locale=en_US&viewlocale=en_US
Oh snap!! That link is helpful! Thank you so much! So that should help with some more even volume on the vocal, yeah? :)
Can you screenshot what you see, reverb wise.
Yeah, just put volume automation into write mode and ride the fader on the track you want to adjust volume and it'll record the movement, once done, change it to read mode. Pull down fader when you feel it's too loud, push up when quiet, that sort of thing. They'll be a few vids on YouTube on volume automation in garageband.
Man my best mate works at Drumeo and hes getting a drummer from snarky puppy coming. He tells me mark lettieri might come in too. So jealous but might be able to come sit in on the session