Not in the shonen where the same people cheering for the attempted child murderers can't get over (rightfully) the unrepentant sex pest or (ridiculously) the abrasive former bully.
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My Hero Academia |OT2| No More Heroes
- Thread starter bunkitz
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DBZ is DBZ though, and even being a bit more generous, Goku is a vastly different MC than Deku. I don't really want to entertain the notion that MHA would ever be that lazy, especially given its track record with characters like Endeavor.
It's how it's presented that matters, for the league of villains we haven't seen them kill anyone we know or like, For Mineta and Bakugo we've seen one sexually harassed underage girls and the other tell one of his classmates to kill himself
I think that's conflating the in-universe redemption of a character vs how a fanbase treats them. It's not like Bakugo is thrown in jail for basically trying to kill his classmates repeatedly
Yeah I guess it really depends on what the scope is gonna be of the finale. Is it some sort of "the earth is in danger and we have to unite" type of thing? Or is it going to stay more grounded?
I don't think he'll be, but we'll see. Hori's handling of the LoV has always been a bit spotty
Given how Shonen series usually powercreep hard over time and Hori's love of comics, I'm expecting a big event style finale. What form it could take is way too early to call though
The best possible resolution you'll see for some of these villains is they all go out on the run somewhere and become vagrants or some shit.
I honestly don't see how any of these guys do the Vegeta turn. Maybe the presentation of the series is tricking me here, but they really emphasize too much of the blood that's on their hands. At least Dragon Ball is set in a world so over the top and with literal aliens that operate on their own idiosyncratic morality to at least make it kinda transparent and goofy. MHA feels like it tries to have a little too many palpable stakes that play analogous to real life - I swear I've read at least three thinkpieces about how Shiggy is basically a walking condemnation of real life societal structures - and the laundry list of issues that society would need to deal with (i.e unlike One Piece, Naruto etc. this isn't some "fantasy world" but pretty much literally "the real world... but with super powers").
Maybe if this was a series with a saturday morning cartoon angle in how it treats its villains, but we've got literal bloodthirsty maniacs, serial killers with psychosis, and megalomaniacal accelerationists as our antagonists here. Or maybe I'm too old for this shit.
I honestly don't see how any of these guys do the Vegeta turn. Maybe the presentation of the series is tricking me here, but they really emphasize too much of the blood that's on their hands. At least Dragon Ball is set in a world so over the top and with literal aliens that operate on their own idiosyncratic morality to at least make it kinda transparent and goofy. MHA feels like it tries to have a little too many palpable stakes that play analogous to real life - I swear I've read at least three thinkpieces about how Shiggy is basically a walking condemnation of real life societal structures - and the laundry list of issues that society would need to deal with (i.e unlike One Piece, Naruto etc. this isn't some "fantasy world" but pretty much literally "the real world... but with super powers").
Maybe if this was a series with a saturday morning cartoon angle in how it treats its villains, but we've got literal bloodthirsty maniacs, serial killers with psychosis, and megalomaniacal accelerationists as our antagonists here. Or maybe I'm too old for this shit.
In real life, no way would any of the villains have a chance. But while MHA isn't as over the top as say, Dragonball, it's inspired by comics. Comics where characters like Harley Quinn, who is super similar to Toga, is seemingly getting redemption arcs. Where Magneto flip flops between trying to kill the X-Men and being on their side. Where Doc Ock can steal Peter's body but still redeem himself and later fight with the good guys.
I'm not saying any of this is good. Most of these redemptions are pretty dumb imo. But given what Hori is inspired by, I wouldn't be surprised at all if at least one member of the league tries to redeem themselves in some way.
Nah I completely agree, MHA has been very clear on this. If the heroes ever do ever team up with a hero for whatever reason, it'll be far more nuanced at the very least.
Aliens coming our way~
We've technically already had a hero villain team up in the Yakuza arc and we currently have a arc were the LoV are taking down a villain so I don't see it as too far fetch that something similar could happen in the end but with Shigaraki as the big bad, and also a villain redemption doesn't mean they would get away scott free, they could still be wanted criminals for the rest of there lives
Great chapter, every Twice, and that was a lot of Twice, made me happy, the Ice duded seems crazy confidnet in his quirk and has the feats to back up it.
About Twice I think it is less than he is free and more that the adrenaline is pushing him forward, once things calm down I think he still have some reminiscences of his doubts like Todoroki after fighting Deku
About Twice I think it is less than he is free and more that the adrenaline is pushing him forward, once things calm down I think he still have some reminiscences of his doubts like Todoroki after fighting Deku
Outside of Compress and Kurogiri , the rest of the LOV are teenagers or in their 20s. And they all clearly come from either abusive, traumatic situations or have genuine mental health issues. Hori has put a lot of focus on how society has failed them, and, while they shouldn't get off scot-free, I don't think having some members be reformed would be out of the question.
I mean, there's a reason this arc started with the LOV fighting the MHA equivalent of Neo-Nazis, and their current enemies are a bunch of rich, corporate, exploitive assholes who think deregulation will solve societies' problems. The LOV are victims of a broken system. That doesn't absolve them, or their crimes, but that doesn't mean they can't be reformed if given the help that they need.
I mean, there's a reason this arc started with the LOV fighting the MHA equivalent of Neo-Nazis, and their current enemies are a bunch of rich, corporate, exploitive assholes who think deregulation will solve societies' problems. The LOV are victims of a broken system. That doesn't absolve them, or their crimes, but that doesn't mean they can't be reformed if given the help that they need.
But even Harley had to be put away in jail for years and put on a government death squad to even begin to get some redemption. Also she wanted help for her mental degradation and thats more that any of the villians we have see from the LoV. None of these people want help and they all revel in their disfunction.
Poison Ivy is another Villian that heroes give a pass to because they understand her methodology in modern reboot and also understands that she works for the same people as swamp thing but as a lesser Avatar so as long as she doesn't go to far they let her slide. None of the League are at that type of level.
They may be likable but they all got to go to jail. Dabi killed a cop and a pro-hero with a family and has killed countless other low-level criminals and he needs to be put down. Toga is a spree killing vampire who revels in her bloodlust. She has to answer for her crimes. Twice most likely needs mental help and time in jail to get his shit together.
Shigiraki already attacked kids multiple times and also sub-leader of an organization that most likely kidnaps children and does horrific experiments on them to make those Nomu. He is gonna die or go to jail until he dies.
Compress and Spinner are lterally the only ones who are less culpable and even Compress would go to jail for aiding in Killing the sand hero. These people aint getting no redemption.
They are just being built up like the phantom troupe so we can feel bad when they get got. Like I was sad when Magne died but she also committed like 6 murders and 15 attempted murders and 28 assaults so It was just things coming back at her at that point.
Like someone was trying to argue that Magne shouldn't have died because she was trans on reddit the other day and that she should have gotten some type of redemption. I aint here for that, She got bodies on her and even though it was sad she died, she lived that sort of life that played with her life like that. She got buck on the wrong person and lost and that is how shit go sometimes.
When people talk about the idea of a redemption Arc for some of the LoV members it's exactly that and idea, one that's entirely possible because most fictional stories about superheroes aren't tied to the idea that every villain needs their tragic end punishment, redemption it's quite common in these type of stories and granted you're sorta right the league members fight for themselves but we've just had a chapter where Twice gives everything he has to save someone, none of the League members have been protrayed as pure evil so there's no reason that Horikoshi can't write a scenario were redemption is possible and earned
Also the phantom troupe isn't the best comparison for your argument since there's the possibility that not all phantom troupe members will die in HxH as well, the world of HxH is a pretty outlaw-ish one, the phantom troupe are running around freely just fine and you can have (HxH manga spoilers)
chrollo battling in heaven's arena and you have an arc where kurapika learns to let go of his need for revenge, I do think most of them are going to die and maybe one or two will survive but right now in the story they aren't even being hunted because of their past crimes
I'd like to be wrong as well but it's hard not to think that now with Giga waking up. I have some hope that spinner might get a chance to shine since he's with Shigaraki and he could fight together with him against Destro or take out the puppet guy who's name I can't remember. Can't say I have much confidence for Compress however.
Yeah I can't blame anyone for getting bored with uninterrupted fighting, since even I get bored of that after a while. I was just hoping we'd get some of the lesser LOV members showing off such as Spinner and Compress before Giga woke up, but now that he is it feels like this arc could be wrapping up soon. Which would suck if that does end up happening but it is what it is I guess.
Also since I've seen people talking about it I still feel that only Spinner, Twice, and Compress have the best shot at redemption if Hirokoshi ever goes that route.
That's fair but you're acting as if these characters are static. They can grow and change. I'm also not saying anyone should get off scot free. You can redeem yourself and still end up in jail. You can redeem yourself and still die. Twice could save Deku's life in a future arc and still get punished for his crimes. Redemption doesn't exclude punishment
Yeah, I think Compress is done. I just want to see Spinner doing something.
Spinner, Twice, and Toga for me. I don't mind if they get redeemed or not depending on how it is handled, because I do think it's a possibility for some
I don't see how the arc is ending soon with only one top member taken down so far, they still have 4 to go, that is depending on if the whole MLA is getting taken out this arc
I feel like BigWinnie's post sorta dips into why most of MHA's villains have kind of elicited a big shrug from me most of the time, or at least why redemption isn't fun to speculate.
In as much as I enjoy this particular villain arc, I kind of feel like Hori boned himself when bringing in the de facto "League" once Stain wrapped up. The original League when they were introduced were basically just thugs - with their only claim to fame being Nomu - but it almost feels like the post-Stain League was just kinda introduced as "here's the same brand of edgy kids; except these guys are more fucked up". We're introduced to characters like Toga and Dabi when they're already multiple cadavers into their villain life, yet that kind of runs antithetical to the Hero group who, with the exception of arguably Deku, have barely done anything worthy of being a hero (which is especially a point with Bakugo). While we're watching most of UA learning how to be a hero, that same dichotomy doesn't feel like it exists with the villains because they were already far into that business when we first met them.
MHA kind of has a problem of telling over showing, which is less of a problem for the heroes because we're still seeing them learn what it means to be a proper hero and pushing their own boundaries. That doesn't feel like it's really there for me with the villains because they've basically already had most of their defining moments off-screen. I think Dabi is justifiable, given that they're really leaning in on the inevitable twist that he's Shoto's brother, so it makes sense for him to have an enigmatic villainous past, but characters like Toga are already entering the series with a body count when I don't really know whether that adds anything to the story. Spinner is seemingly the only character supposedly "inspired" by Stain's morals to have possibly come into this business without a villain record on name. I feel like if they were really going for a "Villain Academia" idea here, we should've seen these guys start at the bottom. That's when you can start asking whether or not redemption is possible, imo. That's when you start questioning how far down some of these characters will sink, whether some of them will kill, whether some of them will have second thoughts about the ordeal, whether they think they're capable, because right now I don't really expect anything from these baddies outside of this arc just being a powerup/training arc to make the main bad guys relevant again. Even the protagonists have had multiple moments of them questioning whether they're worth it (it was notably the impetus of Tsuyu's heartfelt apology for making an assumption out of Deku, Kirishima, et al. going off to save Bakugo), whereas the villains generally don't have any of that stuff.
None of that is to say the bad guys are... bad I guess, because they are entertaining. It's just that I find it hard to really see them as anything but "bad guys", despite the series' effort to show them being troubled individuals. Most of these flashbacks they bring up to justify the characters kinda elicit a "well that's sad but okay" response from me, there's only so many times you can show a "society failed them!" story on screen without wanting something a little more substantive, given that all of it is text as opposed to subtext, and doesn't dig into the character nuances. There's a lot of action, but there's not enough "reaction".
All of this is to say much of this is why Gentle and La Brava are probably my favorite antagonists in the series thus far, because they actually develop away from the whole League "baggage" and we see a little more nuance to their relationship and what they want from each other, developing in the process. While society did "fail" them, it's taken in a more unique direction that focuses mainly on how they see each other. Extra side note; I really liked Rappa upon re-reading, especially how he basically had a tenuous allegiance to the yakuza and even helped Kirishima recover.
In as much as I enjoy this particular villain arc, I kind of feel like Hori boned himself when bringing in the de facto "League" once Stain wrapped up. The original League when they were introduced were basically just thugs - with their only claim to fame being Nomu - but it almost feels like the post-Stain League was just kinda introduced as "here's the same brand of edgy kids; except these guys are more fucked up". We're introduced to characters like Toga and Dabi when they're already multiple cadavers into their villain life, yet that kind of runs antithetical to the Hero group who, with the exception of arguably Deku, have barely done anything worthy of being a hero (which is especially a point with Bakugo). While we're watching most of UA learning how to be a hero, that same dichotomy doesn't feel like it exists with the villains because they were already far into that business when we first met them.
MHA kind of has a problem of telling over showing, which is less of a problem for the heroes because we're still seeing them learn what it means to be a proper hero and pushing their own boundaries. That doesn't feel like it's really there for me with the villains because they've basically already had most of their defining moments off-screen. I think Dabi is justifiable, given that they're really leaning in on the inevitable twist that he's Shoto's brother, so it makes sense for him to have an enigmatic villainous past, but characters like Toga are already entering the series with a body count when I don't really know whether that adds anything to the story. Spinner is seemingly the only character supposedly "inspired" by Stain's morals to have possibly come into this business without a villain record on name. I feel like if they were really going for a "Villain Academia" idea here, we should've seen these guys start at the bottom. That's when you can start asking whether or not redemption is possible, imo. That's when you start questioning how far down some of these characters will sink, whether some of them will kill, whether some of them will have second thoughts about the ordeal, whether they think they're capable, because right now I don't really expect anything from these baddies outside of this arc just being a powerup/training arc to make the main bad guys relevant again. Even the protagonists have had multiple moments of them questioning whether they're worth it (it was notably the impetus of Tsuyu's heartfelt apology for making an assumption out of Deku, Kirishima, et al. going off to save Bakugo), whereas the villains generally don't have any of that stuff.
None of that is to say the bad guys are... bad I guess, because they are entertaining. It's just that I find it hard to really see them as anything but "bad guys", despite the series' effort to show them being troubled individuals. Most of these flashbacks they bring up to justify the characters kinda elicit a "well that's sad but okay" response from me, there's only so many times you can show a "society failed them!" story on screen without wanting something a little more substantive, given that all of it is text as opposed to subtext, and doesn't dig into the character nuances. There's a lot of action, but there's not enough "reaction".
All of this is to say much of this is why Gentle and La Brava are probably my favorite antagonists in the series thus far, because they actually develop away from the whole League "baggage" and we see a little more nuance to their relationship and what they want from each other, developing in the process. While society did "fail" them, it's taken in a more unique direction that focuses mainly on how they see each other. Extra side note; I really liked Rappa upon re-reading, especially how he basically had a tenuous allegiance to the yakuza and even helped Kirishima recover.
I see zero chance of any redemption for the League. They are growing to be villains of the series. There is no "bigger bad" to take down, they are developing into that bigger bad. It makes no sense for them to be redeemed and giving them sympathetic backgrounds doesn't mean they will leave their role in the series. Seems more as a commentary on the society that they are living in.
I don't think anyone is arguing for the league as a whole to be redeemed, just that a few members possibly could
so how exactly does Twice's power work? The original can make 2 copies, and then his copies can use the quirk and go on to make other copies? Is that right?
Great chapter. Looking forward to learning more about Dabi's power too.
Great chapter. Looking forward to learning more about Dabi's power too.
Can I just say again that I think Dabi is not what he seems to be. I wouldn't be surprised if his true form is like the goop monster who wanted a meat puppet suit in the first episode. I would love for that to be the Twist with Dabi and thats why we haven't really gotten any information on him at all from anyone.
It feels like Dabi's whole character revolves around teasing that he's a Todoroki, like he seriously has nothing else going for him
I've actually been liking Dabi, a lot more lately. His rudeness bounces off the rest of the LoV pretty well.
Dabi's gonna get a lot more when the todoroki/hawks storyline begins again, so I'm not impatient.
Because we are at point were it's no hints, it's balant statements that he's Touya, there isn't any mystery for it to be a twist, the story is straight up telling you who he is
What do you mean why? Do you think it would genuinely be better for Horikoshi to have Dabi be someone else given all the teasing he's been doing? I may have a distaste for said teasing being drawn out the way it has, but I'd sincerely loathe the idea of that all being subverted just for the sake of it. It'd be like the reverse of what happened with Obito from Naruto. Like for a brief moment it'd be all like "Woah, Horikoshi sure got us huh", and then afterwards I'd just be left thinking how unnecessary the twist is. Sometimes your readers figure shit out (Well in this particular case he's clearly spelling it out for us), and that's okay, doesn't always mean you need to change it up when what you already have makes perfect narrative sense.
Because thus far, he doesn't. All he really has outside of that is admittedly very dope fire powers that make it easy to find him cool, that's about it. It will presumably start up in full this arc, but Horikoshi does have to begin making us care about Dabi as a character, rather than as a ticking timebomb that we can't wait to see how Todoroki and Endeavor react to.
I still can see Dabi being someone/something that possessed Toya and is tormented by Toya's memories
Indeed I think ther is some hints about this
Because there are plenty of ways to make Dabi not be Toya and still feel like he is related to Toya
There is no need to claim right now if Horikoshi does this or doesnt do this it will be bad, it feels like a self fulfilling prophecy
Don't say these words to me after GoT Lotus
Was it confirmed before now that Dabi couldn't actually handle his own heat or was that just a fan theory that became my head canon I can't remember coz it was revealed like it was new info this chapter but I was already under that impression
In any case his reaction to the idea that people without good quirks should just die was interesting if you think about how Endeavour treated his kids
Also Sad Man's Parade is a cool ass name for what is essentially hundreds of idiots clambering over each other to beat people up
What if he's his half-brother? All the teasing could work just as well for somebody who's Endeavor's son, but not part of the family.
I don't even know what this means
I'm just speaking my mind.
Lmao, that phrase has definitely been stuck in my head since GoT ended.
It was never confirmed for Dabi, we're assuming his weakness stated this chapter is a reference to this from Ch. 202:
Though yea, looking at his body, it wasn't the hardest thing to guess I suppose.
I mean that's just kinda semantics at that point. Todoroki's brother/half-brother, so long as he shares a relationship to the family, its all good. If he's completely unrelated to them, not so much.
Lol on the bright side at least we'll never get Ochako turning evil in the span of one chapter or Tsuyu killing AFO
I mean, there's sharing a relationship and there's sharing a relationship. Dabi being Todoroki's older brother, somebody his family at least knows, would be a pretty different setup than Dabi being Endeavor's lovechild that nobody else in the family is even aware exists.
You're right, I should clarify that I'm not saying that him being a half-brother wouldn't in fact be lamer than just straight up having him be directly related to Todoroki. It most certainly would be. But at least the connection would still be there, just moreso for Endeavor I guess. But if Dabi is literally just some nobody to both the Todorokis and us readers... then that's just dumb.
Oh, I get you.
Yeah, having him be a nobody at this point after laying so much groundwork for a connection or secret history would be subverting expectations for the sake of "beating" the theorists. It's the same stuff that messed up the later GoT seasons.
It was never confirmed for Dabi, we're assuming his weakness stated this chapter is a reference to this from Ch. 202:
Though yea, looking at his body, it wasn't the hardest thing to guess I suppose.
Yeah that quote you posted at the time I read it was just the nail in the coffin for me that Dabi was Touya coz my mind went "ah yeah Touya was too weak to handle his own heat then so its definitely gotta be Dabi"
This still leaves me bewildered at when I decided that Dabi's reason for having those skin grafts or whatever they are was confirmed to be coz his fire too damn heat 🔥
I'm assuming I read it as a theory somewhere and just subconsciously decided it was legit lol
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I agree with this but don't compare The Hero of Winterfell with frog girl
Exactly. And it'd be all the more irritating given how Horikoshi is purposely steering us to believe that. Now, some might make the argument that due to that constant teasing, it's perfectly valid to consider the possibility that its an intentional red herring. But I personally think that ship has long since sailed, and would not at all be a better reveal than just simply sticking to what virtually everyone in the fandom believes. Even if you or anyone else just ends up sort of shrugging when its finally confirmed, we still have a lot to look forward to, such as seeing how exactly Todoroki and Endeavor process that knowledge of how far Dabi has fallen. That'll be some excellent drama I imagine.
I dunno, if you look back, you can see evidence that Tsuyu was always meant to do this. After all, she has no weaknesses.
Though maybe Compress will get lucky and fight the sunglasses guy. I could see that possibly happening if Giga takes a few chapters to arrive. But if he doesn't and arrives right away then rip Compress chance to shine. But yeah I'm real thirsty for some Spinner action at this point and want him to do something significant as well.
I can't say I really see Toga getting any kind of redemption with how many people she's killed. Granted it really does come down to how it's handled but even then I feel like it would be a hard pill to swallow. Also sorry for replying so late got a bad habit of doing that.
I personally can't see this arc lasting much longer once Giga arrives, dude is just gonna wreck people left and right.
I'd be cool with anything for either of them. I know them just going fight after fight could get boring, but Hori is handling it much better than he did in the Yakuza Arc. It's admittedly due to his idolization of Stain, but I think Spinner could really surprise us.
I honestly don't know about Toga. I'll just say I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
No worries. I never rush the fam
This arc has been pretty meh for me but I guess it's needed because the LoV needed a power up.
Well here's hoping that Horikoshi does give them both something rather than nothing. And big agree that he's handling this arc better than the Overhaul, granted I despise that arc with a passion. The surprise with Spinner will probably be his quirk and why he hasn't used it yet or something along those lines. And with Toga I'd be surprised if she did but that just how I feel anyways.
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