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Oct 24, 2019
6,560
A lot of people take issue with over the top designs in games, particularly hyper-masculine or hyper-feminine ones, since these generally go hand in hand with sexualized and objectified depictions of characters. In many games, I agree that characters look like models just for the sake of it, and the game wouldn't be impacted at all if they were designed in a more "average" way.

However, in superhero games, I think over the top and sexualized designs is ok and even necessary to some extent.

Comic book characters are supposed to be larger than life heroes and villains, and thus they are supposed to exude power & charisma. With heroes specifically, you're supposed to think of them as the pinnacle of human potential, not just morally, but physically as well. Despite the fact that Superman's powers don't come from his bulging muscles, you can't just have him be some average Joe with laser-vision and super strength. Poison Ivy is a character who is supposed to have almost godlike control over men, so it makes sense that she has nearly unrealistic curves and beauty, even though she could technically just be an average looking woman with pheromone powers.

I also think that sexualized designs in superhero games is justified moreso than in other types of games, because, for the most part, it is an even playing field. Both men and women are depicted with their attractive features cranked to 11, and both men and women are given body-tight suits (or very skimpy suits). The fact that both sides are being viewed through the same lens keeps things level.

The reason I was thinking about this is because I've noticed more retroactive backlash against Rocksteady's Arkham designs for being so over the top, coupled with the fact that in Spider-Man and Avengers it's almost like they're deliberately trying to make the characters look more like average people who just happen to wear costumes and have crazy powers. I personally think it detracts something from the overall superhero fantasy if the characters just have plain looks.

Anyways, I was curious to see how you all feel on the matter?
 

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,701
the problem with the skimpy suit comment is that what men and women find sexy or attractive isnt the same.
 

super-famicom

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
25,136
Disagree OP. It's pretty unnecessary fanservice and can subconsciously pressure people into carrying over those standards into real life.

Hawkeye Initiative is good at poking at this issue.

thehawkeyeinitiative.tumblr.com

The Hawkeye Initiative

"How to fix every Strong Female Character pose in superhero comics: replace the character with Hawkeye doing the same thing." -Gingerhaze

Also, this thread exists on ERA

www.resetera.com

Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP) OT

Please read these notable posts before participating in the thread, if you have not done so already!
 

Suicide King

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,018
I don't think comic book designs should get a pass. There are good designs that are not sexualized or even exaggerated. You can have Milo Manara's Spider-Woman, but you can also have Kamala Khan's first design.

The problems with Arkham series are not because they are too faithful to the comics. There are bad comic book designs that follow this idea of looking over-the-top (Rob Liefeld), and especially for a game a little more grounded in reality, with stealth elements, I can see why people find it weird that everyone in Arkham is either a Gears of War-esque brute or a bimbo. All in a world draped in darkness and lack of color.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
Yeah I remember all those sexualized male designs in the Arkham series like... Uh... Wait a minute.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
A heroine that is peak human potential should be no different than a hero, as in, having a lot of muscular grown. Instead they give them giant tits and asses. It can't even work as a power fantasy like sexualized muscular men are because more often than not when artists (especially men) do a sexy design of a woman in reality are doing a sexist design.
 

Alienhated

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,527
I don't think it's that much controversial to state that most people like to look at beautiful and sexy people in their entertainment products, but i don't think this is the right place to try to have a rational conversation about it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,859
Most designs in the Arkham games (basically every man has bulging biceps and six packs outlined through their clothes, and basically every woman has an hourglass figure with huge TnA)

If you are talking about the mobs yes, but Two-Face, Penguin, Zasz, The Riddler, Ras'al Ghul, Joker, Scarecrow, Mr Freeze have different shapes and they don't have bulging biceps and six packs.

Bane is what i call over the top.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,100
Male comic book characters are not designed to be "sexual" in the way women are. Thats a silly assertion. They are going for a hyper masculine aesthetic and targeting largely straight men.
 

Transistor

The Walnut King
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,113
Washington, D.C.
I don't think it's that much controversial to state that most people like to look at beautiful and sexy people in their entertainment products, but i don't think this is the right place to try to have a rational conversation about it.
There's an entire thread with great rational conversation about it right here.

www.resetera.com

Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP) OT

Please read these notable posts before participating in the thread, if you have not done so already!

In reality, that's just a male power fantasy come to life.

Bingo
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,859
Basically every man in that universe has steroid levels of muscle, even Gordon lol. I would say that's pretty sexualized (imo of course)

Only in Arkham Asylum Gordon has steroid levels of muscle, but in the other titles he has a normal shape.

964959688B5AA5F4A5586E54187EEB6719A8731F
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Someone should post that design of that superhero MK Raiden-like looking dude with the ribbon on his dick because that's the equivalent of a sexualized female design put onto a man, not just a dude with biceps which is more a male power fantasy than a sexualized design.
 
OP
OP
Cosmic Voyager
Oct 24, 2019
6,560
Yeah, all those strapping young lads like the Joker, Scarecrow, Mr. Freeze, Riddler, and Penguin.

Sure, go ahead and disregard Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Arkham Knight, Gordon, Bane, every single goon, etc.

I get your point, but the "regular" shaped men are the exception to the rule in those games
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,100
Sure, go ahead and disregard Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Arkham Knight, Gordon, Bane, every single goon, etc.

I get your point, but the "regular" shaped men are the exception to the rule in those games

Being fit as a male comic book character is not sexualized. People don't call female designs in games sexualized because the women are in good shape. It's because of the way they are designed to look (how they are dressed) and act.


If the Joker in Arkham Knight were walking around in an open cut shirt and briefs, how do you think most of the target audience of that game would react? And yet this happens:
latest
 

super-famicom

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
25,136
If you are talking about the mobs yes, but Two-Face, Penguin, Zasz, The Riddler, Ras'al Ghul, Joker, Scarecrow, Mr Freeze have different shapes and they don't have bulging biceps and six packs.

Bane is what i call over the top.

Did you notice that that those are all villians? More often than not, media is villianizing the ugly and the "other," people who are different from our supposed standards of beauty.

And not to personally dunk on you, but I know comics and video games are all fiction, but they do have a subconscious effect on those who consume them, so I think they should try to do better. Stuff like Kamala's homemade costume are super refreshing and feels progressive, especially when you compare that to something like boob windows on Power Girl.
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,571
The reason I was thinking about this is because I've noticed more retroactive backlash against Rocksteady's Arkham designs for being so over the top, coupled with the fact that in Spider-Man and Avengers it's almost like they're deliberately trying to make the characters look more like average people who just happen to wear costumes and have crazy powers. I personally think it detracts something from the overall superhero fantasy if the characters just have plain looks.

I mean, that's how Spider-Man usually is, outside of characters like Rhino for example, who is still a 7 foot comically sized brute in the game.
 

Mib

Member
Nov 16, 2017
654
Basically every man in that universe has steroid levels of muscle, even Gordon lol. I would say that's pretty sexualized (imo of course)
It's not. Most people don't find that level of hyper musculature attractive. As a general rule of thumb: Think Nightwing or the more lean, athletic (body type) Bruce Wayne, not Bane.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,410
I guess i was wrong, thank you for proving it so with your completely reasonable, chill and open to dialogue reply.

They should absolutely not have misgendered you, but going off your first two posts in this thread, you have a pretty set opinion on the matter you don't seem willing to elaborate on in the first place. So from that alone, it doesn't seem worthwhile to engage in discussion with you.
 

Transistor

The Walnut King
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,113
Washington, D.C.
It's not. Most people don't find that level of hyper musculature attractive. Think Nightwing or the more lean, athletic (body type) Bruce Wayne, not Bane.
Indeed. It all comes back to that male power fantasy.

The women are curvy and large breasted and skimpily dressed because that's what you're expected to want.
The men are big and muscular because that's what you're expected to want to be.

Many newer comics seem to be breaking away from this mindset, thankfully. Spider-Gwen, Kamala Khan, etc are doing great jobs for women and the men are no longer roided up monsters. Games are getting there, too, but some are just taking their time unfortunately.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
9,859
Did you notice that that those are all villians? More often than not, media is villianizing the ugly and the "other," people who are different from our supposed standards of beauty.

And not to personally dunk on you, but I know comics and video games are all fiction, but they do have a subconscious effect on those who consume them, so I think they should try to do better. Stuff like Kamala's homemade costume are super refreshing and feels progressive, especially when you compare that to something like boob windows on Power Girl.

There is a difference between "ugly" and steroid level of muscles and all the villains i listed does not have steroid level of muscles and they are not "ugly" by any means, they are actually very good designed.
 

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,552
Indeed. It all comes back to that male power fantasy.

The women are curvy and large breasted and skimpily dressed because that's what you're expected to want.
The men are big and muscular because that's what you're expected to want to be.
It's like when people try and bring up Kratos as a gotcha when talking abut sexualised designs.
 

Alienhated

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,527
They should absolutely not have misgendered you, but going off your first two posts in this thread, you have a pretty set opinion on the matter you don't seem willing to elaborate on in the first place. So from that alone, it doesn't seem worthwhile to engage in discussion with you.
I just have my personal opinions on the matter, i'm not really 100% on board with any "side".
I just don't think it's worthwile to engage a discussion in a place that doesn't actually allow for it, and honestly if you believe otherwise i think you're kind of fooling yourself.
That said, i'm out.
 
OP
OP
Cosmic Voyager
Oct 24, 2019
6,560
It's not. Most people don't find that level of hyper musculature attractive. As a general rule of thumb: Think Nightwing or the more lean, athletic (body type) Bruce Wayne, not Bane.

Just to clarify, are you saying Batman in Arkham games is lean, or are you talking generally (ie. other depictions of him where he is more lean)?
 

Dalcop

Member
Nov 28, 2017
347
Disagree OP. It's pretty unnecessary fanservice and can subconsciously pressure people into carrying over those standards into real life.

Hawkeye Initiative is good at poking at this issue.

thehawkeyeinitiative.tumblr.com

The Hawkeye Initiative

"How to fix every Strong Female Character pose in superhero comics: replace the character with Hawkeye doing the same thing." -Gingerhaze
This is definitely the same sure.


Are we really going to pretend that men and women are conventionally sexually attractive in the same way?
 

GoldStarz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,040
Sure, go ahead and disregard Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Arkham Knight, Gordon, Bane, every single goon, etc.

I get your point, but the "regular" shaped men are the exception to the rule in those games
God you would be hard pressed to find a less sexy version of the Arkham universe's interpretation of the Robin boys.
 

Arcana Wiz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
817
"Sexualized Male Characters"....

Oh please, you're clearly an oblivious straight man. 99% of the male characters in these games are designed to be a male power fantasy thet ARE not in slightest designed to be hot for straight women/gay men/Bi people.

Another big thing is that the female characters are presented with poses and camera angles that put emphasis on their "Sexyness".
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,404
Over the top and sexualized designs are definitely fine for some characters, when it becomes the default design though you have a problem.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,898
JP
It's not. Most people don't find that level of hyper musculature attractive. As a general rule of thumb: Think Nightwing or the more lean, athletic (body type) Bruce Wayne, not Bane.
Have people really never seen a male model? Or a conventionally attractive male actor? It just boggles my mind that so many people apparently think Hulk Hogan is just as hot as Brad Pitt because of big muscles.

Yes, some people find overly muscular men attractive. But some people find overly muscular women attractive too and those are nowhere to be seen in games.
 

est1992

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,180
I think Spider-Man PS4 gets it the most right in terms of this.

Females are most definitely more sexualized than men though.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,617
Brazil
I literally cannot think of another character that need to be sexualized like your poison ivy example.

Would make sense for Wonder Woman to be a TANK (and I mean that in a "mountain of muscles" way). Catwoman needs to be almost a stick figure for the agility, and talia to have zero fat (aka curves) in her athletic body, just like bats and Harley is literally the definition of a regular human turned by joker .. and unless "breast implants" are now within joker's skills ... it would make no sense for her to be "larger" than life =P
 
OP
OP
Cosmic Voyager
Oct 24, 2019
6,560
Being fit as a male comic book character is not sexualized. People don't call female designs in games sexualized because the women are in good shape. It's because of the way they are designed to look (how they are dressed) and act.

I disagree with that. If we look at the MCU, many of the male characters, particularly Captain America, Thor, Killmonger, Bucky, etc. are huge. Far more fit than the average person could hope to achieve without personal dietitians, personal trainers, and several hours of free time to workout twice a day.

Adding on to that, these characters are usually given at least one "money shot" per movie where they're either shirtless for no other reason than for the audience to admire their bodies, or they're performing some inhuman feat of strength while wearing a size small shirt lol. Not to mention that Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, etc. have model-esque looks on top of their ridiculous physiques.

Now that's not to say that those scenes are purely designed for people who are attracted to men to drool over, but that's kind of my point in general. It's sexualized for the people who are attracted to men, but even if you're not attracted to men, there's that kind of admiration of seeing the "peak" male form. It's pretty common to hear straight men say they have a "man crush" on these superhero actors because they represent what they aspire to be like
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,591
I'd always heard that these designs are one part "male fantasy" and one part "exaggerated nude (spandex) bodies are more dynamic and appealing on paper" (the same reason so many early heroes had capes). Which I kind of get for paper comics but the effect is almost always garish and off-putting when applied to 3D video game models.