'My son spent £3,160 in one game' (BBC article looking at exploitative MTXs)

[Noog]

A couple years ago my dad had a stroke and he used my mom's iPad to play games and keep up with the news while he was in rehab. He had never been involved in the mobile market, and the only video games he was familiar with were some PC games and the game consoles I had. He didn't understand, especially in the condition he was at the time, that he was spending real life currency on extra lives in Toy Blast. He thought it was a virtual currency you got from playing levels. He ended up spending around $30, and Apple actually ended up refunding us the money when we told them what happened, but my point is there's more to the story than parents giving kids access to their credit cards.

 

[Nome]

The fact that there are not similar issues with Amazon's 1 click purchase or eBay and other online shops out there should show how this issue is not just bad parenting.

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lol, what a misinformed post.
Do children browse Amazon and eBay for fun? Would the parent of a disabled child hand them an iPad and tell them to go to Amazon?

1-click purchases increase conversion, period. All of these features are intended to get you to spend more.
If you put them in the hands of a person who doesn't understand the significance of money, then you will get a disaster.

 

[Ebnas]

Why go to bat for corporations, even if the parents made a mistake in their access to money? Why waste keystrokes when these are perfectly good cudgels to bash MTXs with?

 

[Hasseigaku]

A lot of this is things working as intended. Developers know that a lot of parents aren't up on parental controls and other tools to limit spending and know they'll get burned on this front.

 

[oni-link]

lol, what a misinformed post.
Do children browse Amazon and eBay for fun? Would the parent of a disabled child hand them an iPad and tell them to go to Amazon?

1-click purchases increase conversion, period. All of these features are intended to get you to spend more.
If you put them in the hands of a person who doesn't understand the significance of money, then you will get a disaster.

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Which is why virtual currencies are a bad idea, as they blur the line between real money and fake money

Spending 1000 gems sounds a lot better than spending $100 dollars

 

[Deleted member 135]

Microtransactions should be banned across the board. No exceptions.

 

[Deleted member 8196]

mtx apologists out in force. Papa EA would be proud.

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ayyy

Because if you blame the parents that are letting their kids use their own bank account you are an "MtX aPoLoGisT" lol

 

[mael]

lol, what a misinformed post.
Do children browse Amazon and eBay for fun? Would the parent of a disabled child hand them an iPad and tell them to go to Amazon?

1-click purchases increase conversion, period. All of these features are intended to get you to spend more.
If you put them in the hands of a person who doesn't understand the significance of money, then you will get a disaster.

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Exactly so the issue can't just be bad parents letting their kids with cash because they're bad parents.
You'll also note that amazon and other stores actually refund your purchase if you made them by mistake.
Which is apparently not something possible for MTx.
If the issue was just parents being bad with money and parenting, the issue wouldn't just be fake money on kid's games.

 

[Nome]

Which is why virtual currencies are a bad idea, as they blur the line between real money and fake money

Spending 1000 gems sounds a lot better than spending $100 dollars

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You realize they had to buy the virtual currency with real money first, right?
And that brings up the OS-native purchasing flow.

 

[cnorwood]

Exactly. Growing up it took an act of God and a mound of documentation if I wanted to use my parent's credit card to buy something online. It maybe happened 3 times.

Irresponsible parents are trying to shift the blame.

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I never get these responses, were you using your parents phone or tablets that hold all of this data and can buy things in a few taps or did you have to physically get their credit card/remember their number? Because I imagine there was a fairly big tech leap from when you were using your parents credit card and today.

 

[Mr Spasiba]

I don't understand these stories. I was a kid before the days of microtransactions but we still had the internet which had unlimited other places you could plug in a card and spend money and my mom just... didn't give me her card.

 

[Jeronimo]

It seems parental control options need to be advertised better, and some of the intentionally easy for a kid to make multiple unauthorized purchases designs should be regulated in some way. It's not the same as it used to be, smartphone/tablet OSes all but require you to enter payment details during the initial set-up so your details are already there and it only takes a few clicks for a kid to rack up some significant purchases.

No kids yet, but the parental controls are something we will have to educate ourselves on.

 

[Nome]

Exactly so the issue can't just be bad parents letting their kids with cash because they're bad parents.
You'll also note that amazon and other stores actually refund your purchase if you made them by mistake.
Which is apparently not something possible for MTx.
If the issue was just parents being bad with money and parenting, the issue wouldn't just be fake money on kid's games.

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It's entirely possible to refund MTX, most companies just choose not to.
The issue is not "fake money on kid's games"; the issue is inadequate security and authentication on OS purchasing flow.

 

[Deleted member 8196]

I was a kid before the days of microtransactions but we still had the internet which had unlimited other places you could plug in a card and spend money and my mom just... didn't give me her card.

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sssh don't say that or you are an mtx apologist according to some posters here
Parents make no mistakes, it's all on the evil corporations.

 

[BGBW]

Something as simple as making all microtransaction have a 30 day refund policy would cut down on this quick.

One could argue that would ruin the gacha model since you could just refund a bad draw, but that's not my problem.

 

[¡ B 0 0 P !]

Games analyst Piers Harding-Rolls, from IHS Markit, said that 56% of consumer spending on games in the UK is forecast to be on micro-transactions, in-app purchases and paid downloadable content (outside of full games) in 2019.

"It is clear that there need to be safeguards for younger players," he said.

"Educating parents around controls that can be used on devices to help mitigate these incidents occurring, and awareness of age rating for content, is a good starting point.

"I'd also like to see the industry self-regulate to do more to safeguard younger players and overuse of games."

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[leafcutter]

This article literally lists examples of kids who bought shit without realizing what they were doing, so yeah it's probably the software companies being shady and not "irresponsible parents"

 

[apocat]

I will never understand victim blaming, when we are talking about a trash monetization practice that abuses children and those psychologically susceptible to gambling addiction

do you want this crap to continue? do you like having loot boxes? you know how it ends, if this garbage bullshit goes unchecked? overbroad government regulation.

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I honestly get furious when reading all these posts laying the blame on parents. It's sickening. It's obvious that companies meant to make it feel like you're not spending actual money when buying in game currencies, that is the sole reason they exist. And people who post on video game forums should maybe try to understand that they have a literacy for this kind of technology that isn't representative of the population as a whole. Things that seem obvious to people hanging on resetera might not be for the average person.

Empathy is hard, but it's a valuable skill to have. Maybe take this as an opportunity to exercise yours instead of siding with obviously manipulative video game creators.

 

[mael]

I don't understand these stories. I was a kid before the days of microtransactions but we still had the internet which had unlimited other places you could plug in a card and spend money and my mom just... didn't give me her card.

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They don't need to as well.
If the card information is already stored in the device, giving the device means giving the cards as well.
Like how hard it is to understand that devices store purchase info that can be easily accessed by a kid?
If you can't understand that, what makes you think that the parents are somehow at fault for not understanding that too?

It's entirely possible to refund MTX, most companies just choose not to.
The issue is not "fake money on kid's games"; the issue is inadequate security and authentication on OS purchasing flow.

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I can tell you it's working as intended, no mistake on the design parts at all.

 

[Z-Beat]

Predatory as all hell

 

[Strangelove_77]

Sounds like the parent's fault. Don't give your credit card info to your kids. It's that easy.

 

[Deleted member 41520]

Exactly. Growing up it took an act of God and a mound of documentation if I wanted to use my parent's credit card to buy something online. It maybe happened 3 times.

Irresponsible parents are trying to shift the blame.

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Sounds like the parent's fault. Don't give your credit card info to your kids. It's that easy.

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Totally different era, though. Today, your payment information will be held directly on your phone in at least several apps, if not a system-wide connectivity system. Boot up an app and with one push you can connect your card details straight into it. It's not like you have to manually get the card out and enter anything (in most cases).

Almost all the cases here are where no card information was handed to the kids at all. It was just there on the phone already - and hidden well out of sight so the parent wouldn't think twice about it.

 

[id.]

I'd have sympathy for you, but I wouldn't expect the company that made the lock to pay to replace all your stolen stuff.

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The example wasn't a direct comparison, it was to show how questioning the victim is weird. Obviously it was a mistake on their part, so it seems pretty rude to question why they would even make a mistake in the first place.

And this isn't replacing stolen goods, these are refunds for mistaken purchases for pixels on a screen. Refunding a mistaken purchase in these scenarios is much less complicated than refunding tangible goods.

 

[Rosebud]

I feel bad for them. Kid me with a credit card would be a disaster.

 

[Deleted member 8196]

This article literally lists examples of kids who bought shit without realizing what they were doing, so yeah it's probably the software companies being shady and not "irresponsible parents"

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I mean in the EA and Fortnite case, the parents let their cc on the consoles or PCs, so yes, they are irresponsible.

 

[catswaller]

I don't understand these stories. I was a kid before the days of microtransactions but we still had the internet which had unlimited other places you could plug in a card and spend money and my mom just... didn't give me her card.

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This is blatantly disingenuous.

a- if youre weren't capable of circumventing some levels of protection (curfews, content filters, etc) your parents/schools/etc tried to impose on you, you were either very boring or very docile

b- If you grew up in a time before smart phones and social media, and are still alive today, you obviously know the different extent to which daily life coerces, harangues, and demands credit cards hooked up to devices then vs now.

 

[Syysch]

You literally just described them willingly giving children access to payment details.

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Just a week ago, i accidentally clicked on an in-app purchase in a game i was playing on my phone. It conveniently popped up a button to click on my saved credit card information that i never entered into my google account from this phone, and it's been years since i would have had it linked to my google account. I deleted the payment information from my phone and went back into the game to test - it STILL pulled up my credit card information as an option to use. I had to clear the cache for the google play settings in order to finally get rid of it, which i had to google for instructions because why the hell is that required in order to delete saved credit card info you never entered on that device?

 

[Nome]

I honestly get furious when reading all these posts laying the blame on parents. It's sickening. It's obvious that companies meant to make it feel like you're not spending actual money when buying in game currencies, that is the sole reason they exist. And people who post on video game forums should maybe try to understand that they have a literacy for this kind of technology that isn't representative of the population as a whole. Things that seem obvious to people hanging on resetera might not be for the average person.

Empathy is hard, but it's a valuable skill to have. Maybe take this as an opportunity to exercise yours instead of siding with obviously manipulative video game creators.

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No.

The goal of virtual currency is to disassociate spending it from spending real currency.

You still have to spend real money to purchase fake currency. That's where the issue lies.

 

[Ohri-Jin]

There definitely needs to be more awareness of these shady practices.

Notice how scummy most mobile games truly are. It is the sole business model.

Unfortunately it is creeping onto AAA gaming as well.

 

[catswaller]

Also this "stupid parents" stuff (and other examples of childish posters denigrating adults whose life experiences they dont understand, such as "lazy devs", etc) should be against the rules.

 

[Breqesk]

blaming the parents and caping for exploitative corporations who design these games to squeeze money out of kids is a real shitty thing to do, and completely ignores the reality of the situation. i really don't give a fuck if you think personal responsibility is the be all end all, particularly when your argument seems predicated on absolving these companies of any responsibility to ensure their practices aren't harmful.

and if you're about to say, 'well, duh, that's what corporations are: their only real responsibility is to make money for the shareholders', then you've zeroed in on precisely why leaving these companies to operate unchecked, and placing all the responsibility for guarding against them on individuals, is a fucking terrible idea.

the world would be better off if all this shite were banned, at least in any game rated below an 18. and even in games rated 18 or above, the same regulations that apply to casinos and online gambling should be enforced.

 

[mael]

Just a week ago, i accidentally clicked on an in-app purchase in a game i was playing on my phone. It conveniently popped up a button to click on my saved credit card information that i never entered into my google account from this phone, and it's been years since i would have had it linked to my google account. I deleted the payment information from my phone and went back into the game to test - it STILL pulled up my credit card information as an option to use. I had to clear the cache for the google play settings in order to finally get rid of it, which i had to google for instructions because why the hell is that required in order to delete saved credit card info you never entered on that device?

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Come on, you're just a bad parent in the making.
Clearly you should know about the intricacies of how Google is tracking your shit.

 

[Z-Beat]

Sounds like the parent's fault. Don't give your credit card info to your kids. It's that easy.

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In some cases. In others it was the game purposefully disguising its microtransactions to dupe people who otherwise would not know better. If your kid stole your carton of cigarettes because the packaging was modeled to look like candy the company shares some degree of responsibility

 

[sir_crocodile]

regulate it out of existence pls

 

[Ænima]

Its not MTX, its Surprise Bankruptcy

 

[Hasseigaku]

Even if the parents are responsible and wise to this kids are fucking smart about getting around protection if they're motivated enough.

And since a lot of phones will have an account on file for various reasons, this shit is bound to happen.

 

[Z-Beat]

Its not MTX, its Surprise Bankruptcy

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Like Monopoly!

 

[apocat]

No.

The goal of virtual currency is to disassociate spending it from spending real currency.

You still have to spend real money to purchase fake currency. That's where the issue lies.

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Yeah, I meant "buying with in game currencies". Missed a word there, thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Deleted member 14377]

Like Monopoly!

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Can't wait for EA to go to jail

 

[Strangelove_77]

Totally different era, though. Today, your payment information will be held directly on your phone in at least several apps, if not a system-wide connectivity system. Boot up an app and with one push you can connect your card details straight into it. It's not like you have to manually get the card out and enter anything (in most cases).

Almost all the cases here are where no card information was handed to the kids at all. It was just there on the phone already - and hidden well out of sight so the parent wouldn't think twice about it.

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I just wouldn't buy stuff from digital stores for my kids at all. Kids don't need that especially when there are so many free apps and free games out there nowadays.
Your Amazon or Uber cc details aren't going to magically transfer over on the App Store. Unless that's a thing that happens now.

 

[MrHedin]

This article literally lists examples of kids who bought shit without realizing what they were doing, so yeah it's probably the software companies being shady and not "irresponsible parents"

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Yes the practices companies use to sell their MTX are very shady but parents also share responsibility to make sure they are protecting themselves and their children at the same time (and I say this as my parent). I make sure every storefront I use requires password when making a purchase and I don't store my payment information. If my kids want to buy something they would have to figure out my password and then go to my wallet and take my credit card just like the good old days that I may or may not have participated in. I really think the not storing payment information is the key thing, if there is nothing to charge against they can't actually buy anything.

 

[mael]

I just wouldn't buy stuff from digital stores for my kids at all. Kids don't need that especially when there are so many free apps and free games out there nowadays.
Your Amazon or Uber cc details aren't going to magically transfer over on the App Store. Unless that's a thing that happens now.

Click to shrink...

Just a week ago, i accidentally clicked on an in-app purchase in a game i was playing on my phone. It conveniently popped up a button to click on my saved credit card information that i never entered into my google account from this phone, and it's been years since i would have had it linked to my google account. I deleted the payment information from my phone and went back into the game to test - it STILL pulled up my credit card information as an option to use. I had to clear the cache for the google play settings in order to finally get rid of it, which i had to google for instructions because why the hell is that required in order to delete saved credit card info you never entered on that device?

Click to shrink...

It's apparently a thing now at least for Google.

 

[Mr Spasiba]

They don't need to as well.
If the card information is already stored in the device, giving the device means giving the cards as well.
Like how hard it is to understand that devices store purchase info that can be easily accessed by a kid?
If you can't understand that, what makes you think that the parents are somehow at fault for not understanding that too?

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My current phone uses facial recognition for purchases, my phone before that used my thumbprint, my phone before that needed a password. If you decide not to set up any security or restrictions how is it anyone else's fault? Most of that shit is setup by default too.

This is blatantly disingenuous.

a- if youre weren't capable of circumventing some levels of protection (curfews, content filters, etc) your parents/schools/etc tried to impose on you, you were either very boring or very docile

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Okay so that's theft. What do you want the game to do to stop your kid from stealing from you?

 

[Hasseigaku]

You've clearly got some issues if your first instinct is to go to bat for the corporations instead of the people who may have made a mistake in their phone settings or in their phone access.

 

[apocat]

Can't wait for EA to go to jail

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At least in the US it's more likely they would buy a jail to earn even more money than something like that ever happening. I wonder how you could apply microtransaction to the prison industry? It's all ethical though, it's a free market after all.

 

[Deleted member 14377]

At least in the US it's more likely they would buy a jail to earn even more money than something like that ever happening. I wonder how you could apply microtransaction to the prison industry? It's all ethical though, it's a free market after all.

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Meal upgrades. Prison cell upgrades. The list is endless!

 

[defaltoption]

As someone who personally spent over $2000 on a gotcha game before realizing I had a problem yea this shit definitely needs to stop, the only thing that helped me was completely deleting the game. Even now sometimes with console games I get the urge once in a while but I have to take a second and realize what I'm doing is silly. I can't imagine what would happen had I had access to much more money back when I was spending the amount I did.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

EA: "Surpriseee!"

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Well it is a suprise. For the father's wallet.


God what a mess.

 

[jman2050]

You all are in for a rude awakening if you think the kids getting suckered in by these manipulative and dangerous exploitative practices would be all totally fine and not damaged at all if only their supposedly dumb parents had known what parental controls are.

 

[mael]

My current phone uses facial recognition for purchases, my phone before that used my thumbprint, my phone before that needed a password. If you decide not to set up any security or restrictions how is it anyone else's fault? Most of that shit is setup by default too.

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Yeah if you're on Android I don't think you have that.
The system definitely does not provide any steps to protect you from unwanted purchases and hide that firmly in the settings were less savvy customers will not find them.