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N7Day - BioWare asks what do you want to see in the future (Mass Effect related)

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,065
New York
People bought a game with an incomplete conclusion and, as flawed as it was, Andromeda did a lot of work trying to carve out a world for itself in the Andromeda universe... and mostly squandered player's abilities to really explore it.

The potential of Andromeda is actually quite fascinating. The execution was middling.
The name "Mass Effect: Andromeda" is tainted. There's no fucking way BioWare is making a direct sequel to that turd given how awful it was received. It was so fucking bad they canceled all DLC and it killed the franchise as of now.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,963
The name "Mass Effect: Andromeda" is tainted. There's no fucking way BioWare is making a direct sequel to that turd given how awful it was received. It was so fucking bad they canceled all DLC and it killed the franchise as of now.
It's been years and we already know gamers have a short term memory; Andromeda is in no way tainted. If Bioware can bounce back and get their focus on track and do a solid Andromeda sequel, people will flock to it.
 

RavenH2

Member
Oct 27, 2017
255
Argentina
Someone always says it, and probably already has done so in the thread, but...

Dear Bioware,

Make a game about a C-Sec detective dealing with multiple cases in the citadel that involve the numerous criminal organisations, the embasies and/or the council. If you want to throw some chaos into the mix add sovereigns attacks on the citadel, or some event involving batarian, geth or whatever, but keep it within the already established and known universe.

Gameplay? Give me Deus Ex/Prey (new one)/or why not? The cancelled Prey 2 gameplay. Heck, I'll go crazy, give a Detroit Become Human style of game if you want. Just not a miliatry shooter. I'm a cop, I don't have big guns, just my gun, my wits and (if needed) my fists.

Let me build my own C-Sec officer and chose his/her story. Let me choose many races (would love to see an Elcor, Hanar or Volus officer, but I'll settle with anything other than human) and backstories (a family person or a hard lonely type detective among others), make my little and big choices matter and have consecuences on the life of this peculiar detective. Move away from good or bad, give me a lot of grey.

Make it a conclusive story and leave some threads hanging for a sequel on Omega, for a fresh start.

I love the universe you've built, let us explore it on our own time and taste.

Thank you for reading this.

Sincerely

ME
I signed the "so called message" but I'm sure I read this general idea from one of you two back in the old forum...

Pretty much. Just bite the bullet and choose one. The trilogy is complete and I don't think it's reasonable for fans to continue to want every variable attuned to their choices, mine included.
Pick or create a canon ending. An amalgamation of choices and concepts from the trilogy.
New protagonist, new squad mates.
Post Reaper war depression, races reforming, rebuilding, and burying their dead.
Reflection on the cost of and price of war at that scale.
Resource scarcity.
Relay activation laws loosened in an effort to expand the Milky Way and secure resource rich planets and garden worlds to ease the post war struggle.
Krogan Empire and Geth/Quarian Collaborative rebuilding strong. Asari decimated. Turian military hurt. New allies, new developments.
Relay activation uncovers new group of systems populated by new space travelling species. Species did not use mass technology, but instead developed along this path naturally. Something happened in the past millennia that lost their home system's mass tech and relay. Thus they were entirely off the Reaper grid during extinction cycles, not connected to the Citadel network.
Tension ensures as to their motivations, given they're not impacted by the war.
Tighter, hub-like mission structure. I love open planets but BioWare just cant get it right.
Snappier combat. Andromeda is free but guns are pea shooters and the looseness of it all diminished the tight, surgical feel from the trilogy.
Crafting sucks. Bin it.
Memorable soundtrack, please.
 

Garlador

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,175
The name "Mass Effect: Andromeda" is tainted. There's no fucking way BioWare is making a direct sequel to that turd given how awful it was received. It was so fucking bad they canceled all DLC and it killed the franchise as of now.
Yes... but it's also a decent game whose biggest issues were a lack of time in the oven. We're in an age where games like No Man's Sky can bounce back stronger than ever, where content can ultimately come out and turn public perception. Andromeda wasn't even awful... it's greatest sin was just being average with a clear lack of polish and variety. Its combat is pretty great, its visuals weren't actually good when they weren't breaking, and the Nomad controlled better than the Mako could ever dream of.

It had dozens of other flaws, but it has its defenders. I wouldn't mind another trip to the Andromeda galaxy, but it's not my first request for righting the ship.
 

SeanMN

Member
Oct 28, 2017
850
It's been years and we already know gamers have a short term memory; Andromeda is in no way tainted. If Bioware can bounce back and get their focus on track and do a solid Andromeda sequel, people will flock to it.
Mass Effect 1-3 are in my top 25 games of all time. Mass Effect Andromeda I would consider the most disappointing game I've ever played. I don't think I'd even play a sequel to ME:A if it was given away for free.
 

SofNascimento

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,451
It's been years and we already know gamers have a short term memory; Andromeda is in no way tainted. If Bioware can bounce back and get their focus on track and do a solid Andromeda sequel, people will flock to it.
Oh but it is. That's why it killed Mass Effect, that's why it never got a single piece of DLC. I can't blame people for wanting the story to continue, but not even EA would made such a terrible decision.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,963
Mass Effect 1-3 are in my top 25 games of all time. Mass Effect Andromeda I would consider the most disappointing game I've ever played. I don't think I'd even play a sequel to ME:A if it was given away for free.
The trilogy is in my top 25 too, and I'd jump at an Andromeda sequel if it was announced. Even with all of the launch issues, I enjoyed the game. Solid 7.5-8/10, which is fine since not every game needs to be 9/10.\

Oh but it is. That's why it killed Mass Effect, that's why it never got a single piece of DLC. I can't blame people for wanting the story to continue, but not even EA would made such a terrible decision.
It didn't kill Mass Effect, it killed further development of that game because Bioware fucked up. Bioware also fucked up on Anthem, hence the slow trickle of content. Bioware also made some missteps with Inquisition. These are signs of Bioware having issues, these are not signs that there's flaws with these IPs. A Bioware back on its A game making sequels in these franchises or spinoffs would not put me off from trying them.

A Bioware not on their A game making a trilogy sequel or some new IP would be just as disastrous as them not on their A game making an Andromeda sequel, so it makes no sense for people to ask for one and dismiss the latter when the result would be the same regardless of the IP.

If Bioware is back on the ball and is asking us what we want to see, I want to see them dabble in Andromeda again. I want them to do a post-Reaper Milky Way game. I want Dragon Age 4. If Bioware is fixed, all of these games will be fine. If they are not fixed, it doesn't matter what they make.
 

SofNascimento

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,451
It didn't kill Mass Effect, it killed further development of that game because Bioware fucked up. Bioware also fucked up on Anthem, hence the slow trickle of content. Bioware also made some missteps with Inquisition. These are signs of Bioware having issues, these are not signs that there's flaws with these IPs. A Bioware back on its A game making sequels in these franchises or spinoffs would not put me off from trying them.

A Bioware not on their A game making a trilogy sequel or some new IP would be just as disastrous as them not on their A game making an Andromeda sequel, so it makes no sense for people to ask for one and dismiss the latter when the result would be the same regardless of the IP.
I did. That's why there has nothing be anything Mass Effect related since then (I mean, there was one book that told the story of the cancelled DLC and I think that was it). Right now, there is no reason to believe that there might be more Mass Effect games (or any other media) other than the fact the trilogy was well loved and because of it the IP still has some weight to it.

And the difference between Anthem and Andromeda is that the former didn't carry a stablished franchise to the grave with it. Andromeda had issues because Bioware had issues, that's true enough. The problem is that Bioware getting itself together will not make all the terrible creative decisions surrounding Andromeda go away.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,963
I did. That's why there has nothing be anything Mass Effect related since then (I mean, there was one book that told the story of the cancelled DLC and I think that was it). Right now, there is no reason to believe that there might be more Mass Effect games (or any other media) other than the fact the trilogy was well loved and because of it the IP still has some weight to it.

And the difference between Anthem and Andromeda is that the former didn't carry a stablished franchise to the grave with it. Andromeda had issues because Bioware had issues, that's true enough. The problem is that Bioware getting itself together will not make all the terrible creative decisions surrounding Andromeda go away.
Those issues don't need to go away, they just need to be addressed in a way that makes sense and doesn't detract from any ongoing experience, which is something I imagine they'd be able to do.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,725
Every year

People: “I wonder what Bioware will announce on N7 day. Sequel? Remaster? Maybe even just some books or something?”

Bioware: “Remember those games? Us too. Bye.”
 

SofNascimento

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,451
Those issues don't need to go away, they just need to be addressed in a way that makes sense and doesn't detract from any ongoing experience, which is something I imagine they'd be able to do.
I don't think so. The problems with Andromeda are embedded in the very core of the game and universe. From the decisions to justify the Arks, the amount of lore they break, the boring and unoriginal new races, the Heleus Cluster backstory, the dynamic of the races in the new galaxy, and more. To make an Andromeda sequel work, they will basically have to do a soft-reboot of it. But even that won't fix everything, nor distant itself from the colossal failure the first game was.
 

Asbsand

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,564
Denmark
Mass Effect 1: 7/10 the first time, 9/10 on replays
Mass Effect 2: 10/10 the first time, 9/10 on replays
Mass Effect 3: 6/10 the first time, 8/10 on replays.
Andromeda: 7/10 first time, still 7/10.

I really hope they can just somehow hone in on what Mass Effect 2 did.

Vince Zampella from Respawn just visited their new office this week. Collaborate with Respawn Entertainment to create the perfect action/RPG successor to Mass Effect 2, where roleplaying through choices, interesting squad side-stories and a politic-rich main story is at play, without making the conflict too blown out of proportion.

Mass Effect 3 was too much - it felt like you were just blasting from one war to the next and resolving them in days, it feels really cheap, even when it's sort of good. Mass Effect 1 and 2 reach a level of in-world believability that the subsequent games failed to, when they tried to copy other genres or do the popular Joss Whedon thing or make NPCs yell "Get to cover!" instead of "Hold your horses". I dunno how to explain it. The series had a charm to it once and it needs to have that back moreso than it needs to think about what features or what scope it needs. And it just needs polish and big focus on playable conversations.
 

Asbsand

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,564
Denmark
There's no fucking way BioWare is making a direct sequel to that turd given how awful it was received.
Considering how they've crawled into a hole multiple times and has that avoidant behavior, with their Anthem PR only focusing on influencers or how the only staff interviews you see will be in GameSpot or those boot-licking "can-do-no-wrong" BioWare fans I think it's actually likely that BioWare has a culture where all honest criticism is dismissed and not even considered in favor of praise. I could just see them mentally block all the people that say "Andromeda sucks" and choose to make MEA2 based on the tiny echochamber that's left that was like "Gimme MEA2 pleeease"
 

SofNascimento

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,451
Mass Effect 2: 10/10 the first time, 9/10 on replays
HERETIC.

Also, I saw the video you posted earlier. Very cool stuff. I always found they lost the way with ME3's dialogue wheel, both in terms of auto-dialogue and the smaller amount of options. I often feel like I couldn't say what I wanted, and that was the opposite in previous games.
 

Asbsand

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,564
Denmark
HERETIC.

Also, I saw the video you posted earlier. Very cool stuff. I always found they lost the way with ME3's dialogue wheel, both in terms of auto-dialogue and the smaller amount of options. I often feel like I couldn't say what I wanted, and that was the opposite in previous games.
I believe/hope it was done to streamline development. The lead cinematic designer Armando Troisi left after ME2 and he laid out the "principles of choice" for the games prior to ME3, which included mantras like "give the player the choices they want", and I think based on interviews there was a feeling in the room at BioWare around ME3 that "We've made it, ME2 was GOTY, now let's make THE MOVIE of Mass Effect" and they upped the amount of pacing of camerawork and dialogue to achieve it, sacrificing the player's agency.

I always felt that particularly made ME3 suck, even just as a standalone game because let's be honest, when ME2 was new it still was nothing compared to Uncharted 2 based on raw animation quality and emotive storytelling. But it ended up feeling even more impactful than that because everything was nested in choices you made, and you could excuse the somewhat robotic animations because you knew it was "a system" and not all pre-directed animation. ME3 keeps the gesture system for the most part but omits choices and tries too hard to make the gesture-animations look as if they're all "movie" quality, and the result is that it just came out looking inferior to a lot of its peers. If ME3 had next-level, Naughty Dog animation I would've been maybe a little optimistic about reduction of choice, but it practically feels like it's just ME2 but less.

So, I'm hoping I can make it work more like ME2 across the entire game. It's a lot of work but I'm making progress.
 

SofNascimento

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,451
I believe/hope it was done to streamline development. The lead cinematic designer Armando Troisi left after ME2 and he laid out the "principles of choice" for the games prior to ME3, which included mantras like "give the player the choices they want", and I think based on interviews there was a feeling in the room at BioWare around ME3 that "We've made it, ME2 was GOTY, now let's make THE MOVIE of Mass Effect" and they upped the amount of pacing of camerawork and dialogue to achieve it, sacrificing the player's agency.

I always felt that particularly made ME3 suck, even just as a standalone game because let's be honest, when ME2 was new it still was nothing compared to Uncharted 2 based on raw animation quality and emotive storytelling. But it ended up feeling even more impactful than that because everything was nested in choices you made, and you could excuse the somewhat robotic animations because you knew it was "a system" and not all pre-directed animation. ME3 keeps the gesture system for the most part but omits choices and tries too hard to make the gesture-animations look as if they're all "movie" quality, and the result is that it just came out looking inferior to a lot of its peers. If ME3 had next-level, Naughty Dog animation I would've been maybe a little optimistic about reduction of choice, but it practically feels like it's just ME2 but less.

So, I'm hoping I can make it work more like ME2 across the entire game. It's a lot of work but I'm making progress.
I think it's a interesting decision, in theory. But the sacrifices were too great. The overall quality of the dialogue went down, even in ordinary conversations your choices were limited and there basically no memorable paragon/renegade interrupts. I can think of the one where you kill Kai Leng and that's it.
 

keidash

Member
Jan 31, 2018
143
For me the best solution would be selling the franchise to Microsoft and let Obsidian do their magic for the next 5 years with absolute freedom.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,534
At this point they've got to know the most requested thing is a remaster of the trilogy, right?
I mean, we've all been like broken records for at least a few years.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,742
The tone of conversation has shifted from BioWare and EA scrapping post launch DLC support for Andromeda, collapsing BioWare Montreal, and outright saying the series is being put aside...


...to Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble openly humouring a future for the series, and straight up asking people what they'd like to see next.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,534
The tone of conversation has shifted from BioWare and EA scrapping post launch DLC support for Andromeda, collapsing BioWare Montreal, and outright saying the series is being put aside...


...to Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble openly humouring a future for the series, and straight up asking people what they'd like to see next.
Yeah, it was always too valuable an IP to let it die. I never believed the stories that it was dead. On hold, sure, but not dead.
 

Arulan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,253
Speaking for myself... BioWare has been dead in all but name for almost a decade. I don't know why I'd expect anything to change. I don't have any need for remastered versions on PC either.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,205
Something set a few hundred years after the trilogy. Things are familiar, yet very different (weapons, architecture, armour etc). Quarians have found a way to escape their suits. Geth are a peaceful nation. Lower the scope, lower the stakes. Build back up to something epic from scratch.
 

Gamer @ Heart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,707
Give me a mandalorian. Don't try to do Galaxy saving storylines and give me a deeper side story with enough elements to feel familiar but plenty of room to expand.

Set it on a single planet if it means a more focused and detailed level design to suit the smaller scope.
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,302
Who'd even want to go back to Andromeda? Not only is the name absolutely, 100% salted earth tainted, but there's nothing there anyway. What are we going to do, another story about the Kett? The dipshit other race whose name I don't even remember? Are we going to relive our favourite memories of Sand Planet, Ice Planet and Sand Planet: Slight Return? Are we going to fight another Archon with another basketball hoop head? Another trip to the stupid network of space magic bullshit machines to look at and hold the Y button on?

Everything there sucks. Everyone in that galaxy talks like an imgur comments section. That whole game was billed as establishing a colony in an undiscovered colony and was actually about waking up in a fully-populated galaxy and just killing everyone there. Remember when the Scottish lass on your ship tells you she believes in God and your two dialogue options are "I do too" and "UHH ACK-CHOO-ALLY THERE'S NO PROOF GOD EXISTS"?

At this point it's poor taste to even do N7 Day any more. Hey remember that thing you loved that we ruined? Be sure to buy our shitty merch and Tweet campaign at us for stuff we definitely can't do because we're in the doghouse after Anthem!

Fuck Andromeda. Fuck Mass Effect. Fuck it, fuck me, fuck everything. Capcom is back. Bernie 2020.
 

BrassDragon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,250
The Netherlands
I'd like to see more actual science in my science fiction, a story with real stakes and heroes who take their responsibilities seriously, conflicts that emerge naturally from alien societies living in the same universe instead of monolithic threats, and mysteries that lead to interesting revelations when explored instead of DLC / sequel bait. In fact, forget trilogies, DLC, roadmaps, GAAS, find your story and tell it in one satisfying release.

But above all, no stress casualties, soul crushing crunch and management based on 'BioWare magic'. Have fun working on this, be inspired and nail down the vision before ramping up production.
 

LossAversion

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,814
I would settle for remasters of the original trilogy with all of the DLC included and a working ME3 multiplayer.

I wouldn't mind seeing a complete reboot of the franchise.

In a perfect world, I would like to see extensive remakes of the original trilogy. The gameplay in Andromeda was fantastic. The jump jets might not work with the level design in the original games but they could still smooth out the movement and cover system. Then unify the weapons, powers, etc. in all three games so that there's a tangible sense of progression that continues throughout the entire trilogy. Incorporate the (good) DLC into the games more seamlessly. Completely rewrite the entire last act of the third game. All they need to do is take the ending of ME2 and do it on a bigger scale. All of our major choices throughout the entire trilogy should have an impact on the way the final mission plays out. Your decisions affect who lives and who dies, who is your ally and who is your enemy, etc. It may not be as ambitious as the original ending but it would certainly be a lot more satisfying.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,742
Allow all 3 endings to be canon, based on a start-menu type of choice or save-import (using the Mass Effect Archi-- oh wait it's offline now) and then give an in-lore rationalization of how and why, for instance, Synthesis doesn't actually combine all life and instead go on the message of it. You could simply say that Synthesis was a wave of the same type of energy Reapers used to indoctrinate, and it "indoctrinated" the Reapers to understand organic feelings so they became self-aware and left and other organics and synthetics felt as if a seed had been planted in their imagination - getting a new ideal about wanting to combine organic and synthetic life as if the concepts don't exist.

As long as the message remains I feel you can justify subverting or nullifying the endings, because the most impactful outcome of the trilogy in terms of magnitude I still feel would be Shepard being the spearhead for multiple species that ended the billion-year-old Reaper conflict. And by doing so they could then think about the physical outcome of the endings: What happens in an aftermath scenario of that war. Just thinking about the Mass Relays I imagine all kinds of newfound Mass Effect-styled political power struggles, like, which can be parralleled ot the moon landings. Whoever wins that arms race becomes the dominant "nation" but instead of nation you could say "Batarians" or "Humans" or "Turians" or "Salarians".
I think that's why I'd rather they construct a canon amalgamation of various ending states, rather than try to excuse them. It's just too hard to buy, in my opinion, acknowledging them. We all know they could never do justice to the various end-trilogy game states, no one could, and I think any attention they give to humouring choice is inviting complaints. I'd rather they just straight up go "Reapers destroyed, Shepard dead, no synthesis, Quarians and Geth united, Krogan Empire built, almost none of the post-game slide panels added in via the Extended Ending are relevant, relays damaged but also being rebuilt as per Extended Ending, no damage done to other AI in the universe, etc", rather than pick synthesis but also try to excuse why it didn't actually happen, or pick destroy and excuse why all other AI survived through, or pick control and explain why the Reapers are all actually dead and not under Shepard's hive mind control, etc.

Unify an ending that technically nobody could have got, nullify the extended ending slides, and just keep that experience essentially canon to the very particular personal experience each player had with the trilogy. New series set post Reaper war, taking enough material to make it an obvious sequel, but also solidified enough as its own thing that nobody can really complain or have their choices considered at all.
 

Son of Sparda

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,961
The name "Mass Effect: Andromeda" is tainted.
Is that why people on Twitter keep asking for a sequel/DLC for Andromeda?

Yes, the name Andromeda (and Mass Effect as a whole tbh) was tainted for a time, but nowadays people are actually a lot more positive about Andromeda and (as you see by many people asking for it) wouldn't be against Bioware continuing the story.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
1,143
Has anybody asked about a representation in Smash Bros for this series?

Shepard Male and Female (both VAs would likely be on board)

A range of weapons/skills could form the basis for a move-set.

We just saw again how the DLC can be beautiful love letters to the character's franchise, and I think Mass Effect is a great candidate.

The series ended up with more melee-focused combat, from memory.

Biotic powers could be akin to the Earthbound characters.

Robotic or cybernetically enhanced characters could receive double damage from some of the more Tech-focused skills.

A Final Smash could be the final united attack on the Reapers from ME3.

Levels/music/guest cameos etc.