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Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
This is the part people should be taking issue with, not the glass of water comment. She's, once again, peddling the same ol' bulshit that Dems need to tread down the middle instead of going further progressive/left. Yes, because that's worked out so wonderfully these past few years.

Fuck off..
A number of the freshman from competitive swing districts ran telling voters that they'd vote against Pelosi in the general. (For context, the Tim Ryans of the world are your Washington Generals of the democratic inter-caucus political battle.) You cannot run on the same platform in SF or Queens that you do in these marginal districts because they have a wildly different electorate.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
The full quote reinforces that pelosi is a spineless centrist and wants more spineless centrists so no, it's not fine.
Some of you really need to stop conflating voting record and rhetoric. Pelosi's voting record is close to Maxine Waters and other longtime members of the Progressive Caucus, and that's with the concessions leadership has to make in the majority and the minority. If she were just the Congresswoman from San Francisco, she'd probably be saying everything in the way you want her to say it.

But she's the Speaker, and part of her job is protecting her members - which, again, means giving cover to people in swing districts and places that just started voting Democratic.
 

FirMatt

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
252
Boston MA
Goddamn it, Pelosi. I feel like 75% of ERA was on-board with her at the start. I didn't understand it then, and I still don't now. She's no better than Schumer, and we'd be better off with them out of the way. It's well-past time for a more progressive Democratic party.
 

Deleted member 6949

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,786
A lot of the policies being put forth by politicians like AOC are very popular, but from Pelosi's perspective, those policies are too progressive to shoot for. I think Democrats would be fine being further left than it currently is.

The problem isn't that the policies are too progressive. The problem is that there are too many dinosaur centrists like Pelosi in the Democratic party that are already hopelessly beholden to special interests.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
Yep, she's pretty dissmisive of the left and wants them to come to the center.
"There is only 5 of them"

Sad part is she still has stans here.

Corrupt and attached to the status quo, like other establishment dems such as Schumer.
The Congressional Progressive Caucus has been around for 30+ years. The AOC group actually does have, like, five people. It was an enumeration, not a judgment. They are a small part of the CPC and the caucus in general.
 

FeliciaFelix

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,778
Man I think ERA is seriously overestimating AOC/super left appeal. Some Dems think AOC is damaging. Like, they'd vote D even if it was AOC or a sentient box of TicTacks, but they wouldn't like it, Hilary-style.
 

thesoapster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,904
MD, USA
Yeah, but not so sure it's necessary to state the obvious (especially when her primary result was the real shocker and something AOC worked hard for).
 

ASaiyan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,228
"But our message, our progressive message, is down the middle."

Pelosi said a strongly left-wing message such as that of Ocasio Cortez "works great in my district, I get over 80 percent in my district, these folks do as well, but that's not where we have to win the election."
Hi Nancy, please leave office. Thanks!
 

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,038
Man I think ERA is seriously overestimating AOC/super left appeal. Some Dems think AOC is damaging. Like, they'd vote D even if it was AOC or a sentient box of TicTacks, but they wouldn't like it, Hilary-style.
Only people that think AOC is damaging are establishment democrats who don't want to rock the boat and right wing loonies.

Fuck em. The party needs to change. Having someone that speaks with conviction and passion is a good start.
 

hurlex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,143
This is the part people should be taking issue with, not the glass of water comment. She's, once again, peddling the same ol' bulshit that Dems need to tread down the middle instead of going further progressive/left. Yes, because that's worked out so wonderfully these past few years.

Fuck off.



She is.

I mean, it worked pretty well last election.

I don't think you can go into a swing district with a super left message. Maybe you can since it seems like some progressive ideas are gaining steam, but it's conjecture at best right now.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,958
HEre's the Q&A session. Sorry the video is on Facebook, which I hate, but I can't find it elsewhere:

https://www.facebook.com/lseps/videos/2426339337379047/

It's over an hour long and so I can't find the specific question that prompted this, correct, reply.

The whole framing is still put in place as to downplay AOC's pressence.

The framing of the clickbait article/thread is. But not Pelosi's quote, at all. She's explaining at a Q&A session, seemingly, about how Democrats won the House in 2018 and will win in 2020, which as she correctly put, was in turning ~40 something red seats to blue. While her seat and AOC's seat were already safe Democratic seats.
 

RedVejigante

Member
Aug 18, 2018
5,640
My question is how has the democratic method of middle of the road campaigning exactly worked to help those who go to sleep hungry at night or who live in poverty?
 

Deleted member 1445

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,140
What middle? All this bullshit about having to adhere to some strawman voter, that is super informed, can't be swayed by debates, arguments, charisma, and knows exactly where this mysterious border is, over which they SHANT CROSS, is a complete lie. Voters are uninformed AF. It's all about messaging, charisma, if they trust you, do others support you, and so on. It's a matter of psychology. and that is something that's unpredictable. With the right combination of appeals you can have voters for anything really.

There's a case to be made that a message such as Bernie's - where you just straight up counter the narrative of the "socialism is bad" bullshit, works better to get voters to your side, than some middling "yeah sure socialism is bad, let's do this minor thing tho", when you have the opposition making much grander appeals. You can't have the same strength of appeal as the Republicans, when all you have is incrementalism or maintaining the status quo.
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,154
Chasing the status quo is frankly madness in light Republicans rigging the game every chance they get.
 

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
No lies detected at all. I was mad at Pelosi for not defending them when they are attacked, but this is simple. AOC can't get what she wants passed. That net gain of 40 doesn't happen without some compromise.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
What middle? All this bullshit about having to adhere to some strawman voter, that is super informed, can't be swayed by debates, arguments, charisma, and knows exactly where this mysterious border is, over which they SHANT CROSS, is a complete lie. Voters are uninformed AF. It's all about messaging, charisma, if they trust you, do others support you, and so on. It's a matter of psychology. and that is something that's unpredictable. With the right combination of appeals you can have voters for anything really.

There's a case to be made that a message such as Bernie's - where you just straight up counter the narrative of the "socialism is bad" bullshit, works better to get voters to your side, than some middling "yeah sure socialism is bad, let's do this minor thing tho", when you have the opposition making much grander appeals. You can't have the same strength of appeal as the Republicans have with incrementalism or maintaining the status quo.
This middle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cook_Partisan_Voting_Index#By_congressional_district

Click on PVI to sort it by ranking and scroll till you get to the R/D +/-3 section.
 

GaimeGuy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,092
Founding member of the House Progressive Caucus stresses need to consider all Americans at the federal level.


Article headline: Demon witch attacks the left and dismisses its presence
 

ASaiyan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,228
I know it's frustrating to live in a center right country, but you and I do. If the Democrats go hard left they'll never be the majority, because the majority is not hard left.
Left-wing populism and right-wing populism are not so different. The main difference is that the former is less religious, and far less racist.

The middle has fallen out of American politics. Right-wing populism won in 2016. I see no reason why left-wing populism can't win in the future.
 

GuessMyUserName

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,156
Toronto
The Newsweek tweet is garbage clickbait, but Pelosi statement is still more centrist bullshit painting any progress as radical. Yes, not every district is the same but that does not mean centrists are the saviours the country at large is dying for. Push "the right candidate for the district", absolutely, and the whole point of primaries is to choose a candidate that speaks to its district and being a toothless centrist has little at all to do with that, much less than it's constantly made out to be.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
I'm so tired of Pelosi's shit. There are two Democrats that can't retire soon enough for me, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
I mean, she's not wrong. San Francisco, for example, would vote in a Mission style burrito over anyone with an R next to their name.
Yep. It's sad that the nation has gotten so polarized (especially since this just encourages terrible governance at the local level) but it's just a fact. Most NY districts are not competitive, due to gerrymandering and due to the inherent constituencies in these areas.

That she beat the incumbent in the primary was news, but it was a fait accompli she'd win after that.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
bernie_sanders_fox_town_hall_m4a_hands.wmv

I mean it's not hard to tailor a lefty message for those "jus' folks" out there in middle america or whatever
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
Man I think ERA is seriously overestimating AOC/super left appeal. Some Dems think AOC is damaging. Like, they'd vote D even if it was AOC or a sentient box of TicTacks, but they wouldn't like it, Hilary-style.

Nah, I fully understand that the democratic party takes POC/Black vote for granted. I think everyone does, then we're reminded by the leadership that we are nothing to the party if you don't fall in line. Historic freshmen leadership, and all the dems can do is fall over themselves because its representative of that token for granted vote.
 

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,038
But she's not wrong on that point

I know it's frustrating to live in a center right country, but you and I do. If the Democrats go hard left they'll never be the majority, because the majority is not hard left.
I think If Democrats actually acted like they genuinely cared more instead of being flaccid easy targets for loud obnoxious GOP members (that CAN grab the peoples attention) to take potshots at while holding the line, we would be in much better shape right now.

People want politicians that respond, fight back and that they can relate to. That they're angry and frustrated too. We don't need the right, we need people that can inspire fire in democrat voters again and get them to care and lot of the old guard like Pelosi can't do that and are generally out of touch. Even when they gain victory, I don't think they fully understand why or attribute it to the wrong reasons.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
You're not hearing what I'm saying. It was a rhetorical question, read my post.
Your rhetorical question and post are straight up ignoring the political realities of capturing a majority. We don't have enough safe seats to do it, and we know which ones are the marginal swing seats. Your post presumes that all local political races are nationalized when that's not the case.
 

capitalCORN

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,436
Making the point that the IS a popular upswing on so called 'populist left' platforms right now, ranging from the obvious young, to the tired elderly denied retirement. Sweeping it under the rug under the comfortable pretense of a two party system is gross not just because it's dismissive, but because it's also forcefully belligerent.
 

Tamanon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,720
Weird, the headline didn't say that Pelosi also said the same thing about her own district. Very peculiar!
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
If what Pelosi said is true, and her district would elect a glass of water with a (D) next to its name, we should primary her in 2020. She won her district by 70-some points. Let the Justice Democrats find a charismatic young demsoc candidate and give us an actual progressive voice in that district. Pelosi's time should be brought to an end.
 

Ensorcell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,441
Founding member of the House Progressive Caucus stresses need to consider all Americans at the federal level.


Article headline: Demon witch attacks the left and dismisses its presence
Yeah you are not going to convince some on the Left no matter how hard you try. They're a lost cause. I think even Pelosi knows that.
 

Vas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,016
Thread title is trash. She said her district was a glass of water district, too. It's obvious what she's talking about. Is this some kind of divide and conquer caper?
 

RedVejigante

Member
Aug 18, 2018
5,640
It honestly sound like talk from someone who has already conceded so much ground to the fringe right wing of the US.