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Deleted member 6949

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,786
"I believe donald trump is a criminal who should be removed from office. let's get that process started"

"what, do you want 4 more years of trump?!?!?!?!?!"

this thread, basically


This is the same thing that people do to defend Biden's record. "DO U WANT MORE TRUMP?" They act like they are the fucking 3 Eye Raven seeing all and the only correct path is nominating Biden and failing to impeach, and literally any variation from that plan results in 4 more years of Trump. They are cowards acting in bad faith.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Yup, bring to light whatever you can and when it inevitably dies in the Senate you can use that to control the narrative going into 2020.

If Trump isn't impeached I'm worried that basically establishes the president as someone who's truly above the law and if that happens I don't think that's anything you can ever reel back in.
Yup
Listen dolts

If impeaching AssClown means he wins reelection, then this entire country deserves to burn from the top down entirely and unequivocally.

It was fucked from the beginning. And no amount of posturing was going to change that.

At least you'd be able to finally accept the majority of people are racist or idiots.

Just out it plain and simple.
Yuuuuuuup
 

Domcorleone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,191
Why impeach now when you can try to beat him in 2020 and if not successful then move for impeachment when the dems win back the senate
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,254
New York City
Listen dolts

If impeaching AssClown means he wins reelection, then this entire country deserves to burn from the top down entirely and unequivocally.

It was fucked from the beginning. And no amount of posturing was going to change that.

At least you'd be able to finally accept the majority of people are racist or idiots.

Just out it plain and simple.

That's ok, I think we will try to make him lose in 2020 anyways. I will agree with you on one thing the way to avoid this was not to elect trump in the first place.

What people don't understand is that the consatutional crisis we talked about.. We are in it now.. The crisis is and has been going on since he was elected.. The time for doing the "right thing" and our "duty" is over.. It's been over. Stomping your feel and saying but it's the right thing is a child's reaction. You can hate pelosi and call out all of her and dems shortcommings 'til November but don't be naive. Dems were elected on healthcare and to help mitigate the president's rampage on this country.. If impeachment was ever anything but a pipe dream then we should have got the Senate in 2018 but we didnt. There is no-one in this thread that doesn't want impeachment but charging into impeachment procedures with no strategy no concept of timing and no plan for inevitable blow back is foolosh.

Thinking that the only outcome of failing to impeach trump is everyone nodding their heads in agreement that "at least the dems did the right thing and tried" is absolutely perposterous.

If dems move to impeach the materials and testimony gathered have to be damaging enough to offset the eventual and inevitable shockwave of us failing to actually remove him from office.. Which is no confined to him claiming victory at his rallies. The media, all media, for months will be talking about how trump beat Democrats again. Also do you think any presidential candidate will be able to get any sort of cohesive message out to voters while impeachment proceedings could be going on. It is stupid to not consider what COULD happen. We always have to consider what could happen.

Everyone needs to stop being so naive.. If dems impeach this president they have to ruin him in the process and we have to do it with no support from the GOP, with the limited powers of the house. Den leadership need a plan and it needs more than 5 minutes to come together.
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,676
Unsurprisingly, McGahn didn't show up to the judicial hearing when he was told by the White House to not show up.
But I'm sure Dems will just have to ask a little nicer next time /s
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
pure unadulterated facts from someone who actually tries to :gasp: represent her constituents



some of yall need to quit playing games
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
That's ok, I think we will try to make him lose in 2020 anyways. I will agree with you on one thing the way to avoid this was not to elect trump in the first place.

What people don't understand is that the consatutional crisis we talked about.. We are in it now.. The crisis is and has been going on since he was elected.. The time for doing the "right thing" and our "duty" is over.. It's been over. Stomping your feel and saying but it's the right thing is a child's reaction. You can hate pelosi and call out all of her and dems shortcommings 'til November but don't be naive. Dems were elected on healthcare and to help mitigate the president's rampage on this country.. If impeachment was ever anything but a pipe dream then we should have got the Senate in 2018 but we didnt. There is no-one in this thread that doesn't want impeachment but charging into impeachment procedures with no strategy no concept of timing and no plan for inevitable blow back is foolosh.

Thinking that the only outcome of failing to impeach trump is everyone nodding their heads in agreement that "at least the dems did the right thing and tried" is absolutely perposterous.

If dems move to impeach the materials and testimony gathered have to be damaging enough to offset the eventual and inevitable shockwave of us failing to actually remove him from office.. Which is no confined to him claiming victory at his rallies. The media, all media, for months will be talking about how trump beat Democrats again. Also do you think any presidential candidate will be able to get any sort of cohesive message out to voters while impeachment proceedings could be going on. It is stupid to not consider what COULD happen. We always have to consider what could happen.

Everyone needs to stop being so naive.. If dems impeach this president they have to ruin him in the process and we have to do it with no support from the GOP, with the limited powers of the house. Den leadership need a plan and it needs more than 5 minutes to come together.
If only Democratic party leadership had more than five minutes to spare in the past 28 months to devise a plan in case it came to this, or will have more than five minutes to spare in the next 17 months.

But who could have possibly seen it coming to this. Who?
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
it was only like a year ago that I got into an argument with someone on this site who claimed she was a great leader for the Party

lmao
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
That's ok, I think we will try to make him lose in 2020 anyways. I will agree with you on one thing the way to avoid this was not to elect trump in the first place.

What people don't understand is that the consatutional crisis we talked about.. We are in it now.. The crisis is and has been going on since he was elected.. The time for doing the "right thing" and our "duty" is over.. It's been over. Stomping your feel and saying but it's the right thing is a child's reaction. You can hate pelosi and call out all of her and dems shortcommings 'til November but don't be naive. Dems were elected on healthcare and to help mitigate the president's rampage on this country.. If impeachment was ever anything but a pipe dream then we should have got the Senate in 2018 but we didnt. There is no-one in this thread that doesn't want impeachment but charging into impeachment procedures with no strategy no concept of timing and no plan for inevitable blow back is foolosh.

Thinking that the only outcome of failing to impeach trump is everyone nodding their heads in agreement that "at least the dems did the right thing and tried" is absolutely perposterous.

If dems move to impeach the materials and testimony gathered have to be damaging enough to offset the eventual and inevitable shockwave of us failing to actually remove him from office.. Which is no confined to him claiming victory at his rallies. The media, all media, for months will be talking about how trump beat Democrats again. Also do you think any presidential candidate will be able to get any sort of cohesive message out to voters while impeachment proceedings could be going on. It is stupid to not consider what COULD happen. We always have to consider what could happen.

Everyone needs to stop being so naive.. If dems impeach this president they have to ruin him in the process and we have to do it with no support from the GOP, with the limited powers of the house. Den leadership need a plan and it needs more than 5 minutes to come together.
Is AOC's take below also a child stomping feet?
pure unadulterated facts from someone who actually tries to :gasp: represent her constituents



some of yall need to quit playing games
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,930
Time to send in the Sergeant at Arms:

DU1bplWVMAEDzIn.jpg


Paul D. Irving. Remember that name. He's going to be the subpoena hunter. He'll be dragging all these malcontents to Congressional Jail.
 

Christian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,636
pure unadulterated facts from someone who actually tries to :gasp: represent her constituents



some of yall need to quit playing games


No, phanphare! She's stomping her feet like a child and saying, "This is the RIGHT thing to do!" She's having a temper tantrum! She's not being totally logically and rational, and opposing impeachment due to imagined and unrealistic threats! Like an adult!
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,254
New York City
If only Democratic party leadership had more than five minutes to spare in the past 28 months to devise a plan in case it came to this, or will have more than five minutes to spare in the next 17 months.

But who could have possibly seen it coming to this. Who?
Maybe Barr saw it coming. Maybe the plan has been in motion all along but has been met with wall of stone but if you think that the idea of this process being a part of a concerted effort to bring down this president is a stretch.. It's only about as big of a stretch that anyone including yourself saw this coming.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
Maybe Barr saw it coming. Maybe the plan has been in motion all along but has been met with wall of stone but if you think that the idea of this process being a part of a concerted effort to bring down this president is a stretch.. It's only about as big of a stretch that anyone including yourself saw this coming.
You think it's a big stretch that anyone, including a random lay person like myself, could have possibly foreseen this administration's brazen, proud recalcitrance when faced with Congressional oversight?
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
AOC is dead on the money too, all yall trying to spin dems' inaction as necessary are doing more harm to our institutions than a failed impeachment would

never mind the message that it sends to people who have been hurt most by this administration. dems leaving them high and dry with all this bullshit. no amount of smug "well actually" spin can change those optics.
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,246
Never had strong feelings about Pelosi in the past but I do now.

She's a pathetic fucking coward who needs to retire so some relevant human beings can steer the party. Every bit as much a champion of the status quo as any other wrinkled old white person. Just move, go, leave.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,254
New York City
You think it's a big stretch that anyone, including a random lay person like myself, could have possibly foreseen this administration's brazen, proud recalcitrance when faced with Congressional oversight?
It is a stretch to think that at start of this presidency that a person could have predicted that an obstructed investigation would result in a stooge being put into place to stifle oversight yes. We are in these circumstances because of exact events. The president has committed many possible impeachable offenses even without this investigation.. Why are we talking about this now and not a year ago? Because new shit happened.
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
That's ok, I think we will try to make him lose in 2020 anyways. I will agree with you on one thing the way to avoid this was not to elect trump in the first place.

What people don't understand is that the consatutional crisis we talked about.. We are in it now.. The crisis is and has been going on since he was elected.. The time for doing the "right thing" and our "duty" is over.. It's been over. Stomping your feel and saying but it's the right thing is a child's reaction. You can hate pelosi and call out all of her and dems shortcommings 'til November but don't be naive. Dems were elected on healthcare and to help mitigate the president's rampage on this country.. If impeachment was ever anything but a pipe dream then we should have got the Senate in 2018 but we didnt. There is no-one in this thread that doesn't want impeachment but charging into impeachment procedures with no strategy no concept of timing and no plan for inevitable blow back is foolosh.

Thinking that the only outcome of failing to impeach trump is everyone nodding their heads in agreement that "at least the dems did the right thing and tried" is absolutely perposterous.

If dems move to impeach the materials and testimony gathered have to be damaging enough to offset the eventual and inevitable shockwave of us failing to actually remove him from office.. Which is no confined to him claiming victory at his rallies. The media, all media, for months will be talking about how trump beat Democrats again. Also do you think any presidential candidate will be able to get any sort of cohesive message out to voters while impeachment proceedings could be going on. It is stupid to not consider what COULD happen. We always have to consider what could happen.

Everyone needs to stop being so naive.. If dems impeach this president they have to ruin him in the process and we have to do it with no support from the GOP, with the limited powers of the house. Den leadership need a plan and it needs more than 5 minutes to come together.


Yeah, totally childish to *check notes* want Congress to do their damn job.
I'd argue that starting the proceedings will show on paper all the crimes Trump has committed and forever tie the GOP to him for defending him.


I mean check the fucking AOC tweet above? This spineless way of acting will only further embolden Trump.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
It is a stretch to think that at start of this presidency that a person could have predicted that an obstructed investigation would result in a stooge being put into place to stifle oversight yes. We are in these circumstances because of exact events. The president has committed many possible impeachable offenses even without this investigation.. Why are we talking about this now and not a year ago? Because new shit happened.
It's discussed now because it's gone from the hypothetical to the actual, not the impossible to anticipate to shocking new reality. None of this is surprising, shocking, or unexpected in broad strokes, even if some the particulars weren't predicted or contemplated at the time.

To be frank, your surprise at any of this is the Pikachu meme.

pikachu_sorprendido.jpg


And to be fair, none of us and our ability to anticipate what would or wouldn't happen matter. We're random chucklefucks. These are career politicians and advisors and consultants. It is their job to anticipate and plan, to prepare for worst case outcomes and have contingencies. Theirs. Not ours. They're the purported experts. They're held to a much higher standard than you or I. It's their failure.
 

Christian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,636
It is a stretch to think that at start of this presidency that a person could have predicted that an obstructed investigation would result in a stooge being put into place to stifle oversight yes. We are in these circumstances because of exact events. The president has committed many possible impeachable offenses even without this investigation.. Why are we talking about this now and not a year ago? Because new shit happened.

No. We're talking about it now, because a year ago, Democrats in the federal government literally had no power to control anything.
 

ISOM

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,684
Bingo. This right here. If you don't move to impeach now, we will never impeach any sitting president no matter how heinous or blatant his/her crimes are.

Democrats won't but Republicans will always pull the trigger of impeachment because they don't give a fuck. This situation has exposed Democrat leadership and lots of Democrats as being spineless.
 
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phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
It's obscuring the fundamental question, does Trump deserve to be impeached. And that makes it in bad faith. If you honestly don't think he should be impeached, that's fine, but back up your argument with actual facts. These tedious and constantly regurgitated ideas based purely on hypotheticals, which history doesn't even back up, serve no purpose. The ruling document of the country calls for impeachment in situations such as this. That's a fact. The president engaged in impeachable behavior. That's a fact. Saying it might energize a base, which needs little motivation to get energized, and despite historic levels of turnout in a midterm in 2018 still resulting in a 10% point defeat to the opposition party, is NOT a fact, it's not a realistic point of contention, and is really just being used to obfuscate the main point.

There is not a single person in this thread arguing FOR impeachment because they think it will result in Trump's removal from office. But there are multiple people arguing AGAINST it, because it won't. They're arguing against no one, first of all. But it also lacks a fundamental understanding of what impeachment is, and why it's to be used.

I assume everyone here agrees that he should be impeached,
You pulled a number out of your ass to suggest that going forward with impeachment proceedings would result in Trump winning. It was completely made up and ignored the very real possibility that not moving forward with impeachment could hurt Democrats. The majority of Democrats, the people who actually vote and are registered as a Democrat, have favored impeachment since the report came out. Generally, it's bad not to do what the majority of your supporters actually want - especially when it's the right thing to do.

Would you be ok not proceeding with impeachment if it meant Dems lost 5 points? It was a meaningless counterpoint that deserved being called out.

Perhaps im not clear: my point is not that they should or shouldnt impeach trump. But calling Pelosi a sellout or coward because she doesnt blindly jump into the abyss is not doing justice to the very real risks that there are.

The number, which I regret posting because the literal crowd like you cant seem to let that go, was to illustrate that you can be in favor of impeachment, but then you have to accept that risk, and not go flinging shit towards Pelosi because the dem candidate lost.

Like I said 2 times now: im in favor of impeachment because there is little data and he's such a piece of shit; but Im not calling Pelosi a fucking coward. Thats real big talk when you're not the one that has to pull the handle that might result in a republican Supreme Court for the next 20 years.

I certainly dont want that responsability
 

ISOM

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,684
It's obscuring the fundamental question, does Trump deserve to be impeached. And that makes it in bad faith. If you honestly don't think he should be impeached, that's fine, but back up your argument with actual facts. These tedious and constantly regurgitated ideas based purely on hypotheticals, which history doesn't even back up, serve no purpose. The ruling document of the country calls for impeachment in situations such as this. That's a fact. The president engaged in impeachable behavior. That's a fact. Saying it might energize a base, which needs little motivation to get energized, and despite historic levels of turnout in a midterm in 2018 still resulting in a 10% point defeat to the opposition party, is NOT a fact, it's not a realistic point of contention, and is really just being used to obfuscate the main point.

There is not a single person in this thread arguing FOR impeachment because they think it will result in Trump's removal from office. But there are multiple people arguing AGAINST it, because it won't. They're arguing against no one, first of all. But it also lacks a fundamental understanding of what impeachment is, and why it's to be used.

You summed it up better than I could.
 

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
This is the same thing that people do to defend Biden's record. "DO U WANT MORE TRUMP?" They act like they are the fucking 3 Eye Raven seeing all and the only correct path is nominating Biden and failing to impeach, and literally any variation from that plan results in 4 more years of Trump. They are cowards acting in bad faith.

See: this shit. Bad faith because someone disagrees on the odds. Fuck that.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
"Get out and go vote! Exercise your power as a citizen!"

*when it comes time to take action themselves*

"Impeach? Nah, too scary."
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
We elected Dems to a House majority to provide oversight and a check against the president's power. Up to and including impeachment. If Pelosi is too chickenshit to do it, then we need new leadership. Full stop.

it was only like a year ago that I got into an argument with someone on this site who claimed she was a great leader for the Party

lmao

There are still people here who believe that Pelosi is a great leader for the party. It's staggering.
 

Zelas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
It's a good thing that we elected a bunch of people that apparently are incapable of multitasking.

Another bad faith argument: "People want changes to healthcare and immigration! If dems focus on impeachment, they won't get anything done!"
What you think about their multitasking ability isnt relevant when voters are saying not to get distracted with the russia issue to begin with or more importantly dragging the issue out with its outsized coverage will have a negative effects on voting.

There is no grounds to claim that the public is uninformed on the issue and just need Congress to educate them.

I think if you put "Impeaching Trump" on there directly it would do a lot better than that.
No. Making the generic issue of Russia, which includes non partisan election security topics, all about impeaching Trump is far less popular. Going from ~60% to ~35% support for impeaching Trump.

https://morningconsult.com/2019/04/...-record-low-as-support-for-impeachment-wanes/

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/05/01/politics/cnn-poll-mueller-report-trump-approval/index.html
 

GuessMyUserName

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,176
Toronto
Never had strong feelings about Pelosi in the past but I do now.

She's a pathetic fucking coward who needs to retire so some relevant human beings can steer the party. Every bit as much a champion of the status quo as any other wrinkled old white person. Just move, go, leave.
Yeap this is me. Was largely unfazed by arguments against her during the whole leadership selection since it's not like there were any better options coming out, but with this stubborn reservation for doing the right thing, caring too much about energizing the right while completely disregarding her own base's anger, and all even on top of the gross debacle with Ilhan Omar she only fueled after parading her around in photo-ops about party "diversity", I'm all aboard the train to ditch Pelosi now.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
What are they afraid of, do they have skeletons that will somehow get dug up if they impeach, you can't play games with republicans, you can't deal with republicans so what is it, some illogical fear that Trump has a better chance of winning. Whatever it is, they look very stupid. The only sane thing I can think of is it takes eyeballs off the stuff they doing right now, tax returns, inauguration etc. but I don't even know if impeachment proceedings would help that or stop it.
 

Mr. Wonderful

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,295
Personally, I think the political consequences of impeachment will be negligible. Almost everyone has already formed an opinion on Trump one way or the other. And let's face it Trump needs to be held accountable so I hope it happens.
I think it would cause a Kavenaugh-like bump to his approval ratings and the mobilization of the GOP base. That stupid group of independents/GOP supporters but Trump haters who fall in line when incensed on a conservative issue.

But otherwise, as you said, no more movement than we have today.
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
I think it would cause a Kavenaugh-like bump to his approval ratings and the mobilization of the GOP base. That stupid group of independents/GOP supporters but Trump haters who fall in line when incensed on a conservative issue.

But otherwise, as you said, no more movement than we have today.


I mean that depends.
If an investigation does turn out some egregious stuff like say money laundering then I can't see him getting a bump.
 

Username1198

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,123
Space, Man
If one of the weakest presidents in history can get around with a multitude of impeachable acts simply because of a misguided and likely wrong assumption that starting the impeachment process will help Trump/Republicans then what does that say about our democracy.

Pelosi is 100% wrong on this. Presidents must be held accountable, especially THIS president. It's incredibly frustrating. We need to consider our actual fucking democracy for fucks sake.

Plus, it won't help Trump. That's a silly narrative.

100% agree. Impeach that traitorous fuck. Yea it won't work, but at least we tried to send a message that no one is above the law.

Listen dolts

If impeaching AssClown means he wins reelection, then this entire country deserves to burn from the top down entirely and unequivocally.

It was fucked from the beginning. And no amount of posturing was going to change that.

At least you'd be able to finally accept the majority of people are racist or idiots.

Just out it plain and simple.

Thiiiiiiiiis.
 

Ominym

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,068
I sincerely hope Trump doesn't win in 2020, however, if he does, I cannot wait to see the next round of bullshit excuses people utilize to encourage inaction under the guise of "strategy".

There will always be an excuse from these people.

People act like they're playing 5D political chess when really all they're doing is galvanizing the belief that politicians don't care about their constituents or what they want; not to mention what's right.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,930
One could argue that had the GoP House not impeached Bill Clinton, despite the Senate backing down, Al Gore would have defeated George W. Bush. The GoP House impeachment of Bill Clinton may have been just enough to push the scale in W's favor over Gore that year.

You could make a similar prediction that if the House does not move forward on impeachment of Trump, that whoever the Dem candidate is will be guaranteed to lose to Trump in 2020 or the GoP candidate in 2024 - depending on when the actual impeachment vote happens. It may not happen until after the 2020 election, if everything is hung up in the court system.

Either way, impeachment, even just in the House of Reps, may be just enough to sway voter's minds in following year's elections in favor of the Dems. Especially if the candidates run heavily with it in their ad campaigns.
 

Deleted member 10551

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,031
AOC is right and if she was leader of the House Dems would be much better for it.

The only way AOC wins is if young people radicalize and are willing to do whatever it takes to beat not just the Republicans, but establishment Dems. Republicans are the bigger enemy, but the establishment have to be beaten down as well.

If Dems think they are likely to win in 2020, holding off on impeachment makes sense, but they need to start jailing the Republicans who won't answer subpeonas. Otherwise rule of law will be fatally damaged, and eventually you'll see a secession crisis all over again (with the possibility that 1/2 of the country will want to eject the other half)
 

Deleted member 2533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,325
Mueller is begging for a subpoena to keep it non-political.

If he volunteers, it looks political.

Mueller is ready, willing and able to testify. But he wants to be compelled to do it. And by doing so, he sets the example for others to obey subpoenas.

It's not like subpoenas were just invented, Mueller doesn't need to be the person setting an example here. There's nothing "political" about telling the truth w/r/t the report he wrote, which is already viewed as a political act. It will also be viewed as political by the Trump base to not defy the subpoena because that is the example that has been set in the meantime as Mueller drags his feet.
 
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