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Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,576
Is Maddow even discussing how Democratic leadership is slow rolling the accrual of Trump's tax returns and this spat between Pelosi and the progressive congresswomen?
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,704
Siloam Springs
So thats two freshman women of color thrown under the bus so far. Ilan and AOC. Very cool to treat "the future of the party" like this.

Edit: damn she actually threw all of them under the bus. Really awesome.

I got mocked hard here when I was not happy about Pelosi getting speaker when Ryan retired, because I wanted a democrat that was less in the pockets of big money.

I'm happy she is showing her rear, but very unhappy that this division is most likely going to lead to Trump winning 2020, provided he doesn't die or the Republicans decide to run someone else against him.
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,745
Canada
We need to realize that Omar, Pressley, Tlaib, and AOC mark the possibility of a fundamental change that the white political elites fear more than they fear elite supremacists, no matter how minuscule that possibility is. How they seamlessly combine the intersectional positions of gender, race and class to question the political imaginational boundaries set by the white ruling class, including the role of capital, is absolutely threatening .. Historically the black/brown communities are conditioned not to dream political dreams outside of the absolute middle of political discourse (this is one of the reasons Biden has so strong support in those communities). 'If you dream and act outside of the political boundaries given, there will be repercussions that are worse than what came before', is the conditioning. The radical dream of 'change' for many black and brown communities is one where things are simply not worse than what they were before. That is what is meant when we talk about the need for 'pragmatism' - not to dream of real change for anyone but the white middle class. This is also why these four women of color are constantly attacked by the dem leadership - they need to be conditioned and set as an example of what happens to strong women of color who dare to question what feminism means outside of the liberal confines, who hint at the root causes of oppression of the system, who question some of our cemented social relations. For those of us who study history, we recognize the violence in the language of those in power who constantly come back to how insignificant, worthless, useless, naive and weak in this game of patriarchal politics these women of color are - how they need to learn to play within the white pragmatic confines that they so gracefully have been given access to. They are allowed to exist because if they can be broken from their dreams of change, their intersectionality is a useful tool for promising change but changing nothing, for maintaining the consensus that transformative change is not possible for minorities.

The centrist men in this forum are equally obsessed with 'these women', seemingly they need to remind themselves and their surroundings constantly how insignificant 'these women' are, and how they absolutely *do not* threaten the foundations of their privilege.
I know this has been quoted a bunch of times but this is legitimately one of the best posts that have ever been written on this board.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
I got mocked hard here when I was not happy about Pelosi getting speaker when Ryan retired, because I wanted a democrat that was less in the pockets of big money.

I'm happy she is showing her rear, but very unhappy that this division is most likely going to lead to Trump winning 2020, provided he doesn't die or the Republicans decide to run someone else against him.
I don't like Tim Ryan or the other challengers to speaker. But he at least supports impeachment which is a huge plus in hindsight
 

maxxpower

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
California
Fuck this country.

There's no work for them to do. All their bills are dead on arrival. Impeachment is the only thing they have any power over.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,301
Can anyone more politically savvy tell me what Pelosi's grand political plan is? If it's to win in 2020, what she's doing is running counter to that. Every instance of inaction from her tells the base that voting for Democrats in 2020 won't matter because they won't do anything. Constantly attacking young, progressive members of her caucus that don't sit by and let the GOP get away with shit unchallenged or fold preemptively to GOP framing and talking points tells younger voters that the Democratic party is openly hostile to their ideas and brand of politicking (i.e. actually taking the GOP to task and not being so passive).

Isn't Pelosi suppose to be this grand political chess master? That certainly what was sold to us six months ago.
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
Can anyone more politically savvy tell me what Pelosi's grand political plan is? If it's to win in 2020, what she's doing is running counter to that. Every instance of inaction from her tells the base that voting for Democrats in 2020 won't matter because they won't do anything. Constantly attacking young, progressive members of her caucus that don't sit by and let the GOP get away with shit unchallenged or fold preemptively to GOP framing and talking points tells younger voters that the Democratic party is openly hostile to their ideas and brand of politicking (i.e. actually taking the GOP to task and not being so passive).

Isn't Pelosi suppose to be this grand political chess master? That certainly what was sold to us six months ago.

Shes a comfortable wealthy white woman. She will be fine, whatever her "plan" is. The party wont.

The end.
 

mescalineeyes

Banned
May 12, 2018
4,444
Vienna
Can anyone more politically savvy tell me what Pelosi's grand political plan is? If it's to win in 2020, what she's doing is running counter to that. Every instance of inaction from her tells the base that voting for Democrats in 2020 won't matter because they won't do anything. Constantly attacking young, progressive members of her caucus that don't sit by and let the GOP get away with shit unchallenged or fold preemptively to GOP framing and talking points tells younger voters that the Democratic party is openly hostile to their ideas and brand of politicking (i.e. actually taking the GOP to task and not being so passive).

Isn't Pelosi suppose to be this grand political chess master? That certainly what was sold to us six months ago.
if you want to be cynical her goal is 4 more years of Trump because it's good for dem fund raising.

as for her *actual* goal, no one knows. If someone still thinks there's some sort of master plan behind this I don't know what to tell them.
 
Oct 27, 2017
10,660
So if we win in 2020 and it's a progressive, will Nancy hum and haw and sit on her hands and preach centrism compromise bullshit or will she fall in line?
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237



He thinks that we need to take our time and maybe, just maybe, in around 2 decades we can do something. He thinks the long game is president over all else. He blatantly said that he doesn't care that I have a non-zero chance that I will die by the end of this year because of healthcare costs because he thinks the long-term is infinitely better than the short term. My death, or the death of anyone along the way have already been calculated as "thoughts and prayers", but necessary "thoughts and prayers". Hell, the probably like it that way since as a statistic, they can do whatever they want rather than a voice that contradicts them.
The world could come crashing down - and let's be honest, it currently is - and he would still be arguing for incrementalism. No matter how many people suffer, it will always be incrementalism even if the GOP wipes away those meager efforts.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,301
I never understood why Democratic politicians don't understand that throwing your base a bone every once in a while is crucial for keeping them engaged and getting them to the polls on election day. Even if your efforts is futile, showing your base that you are at least listening to them on a few issues goes a long way towards firing them up to vote for them come election time. The GOP has mastered this kind of politics. Instead, modern Democratic politics is to shun, berated, or ignore the base at every turn. And then turn and and bitch and moan at them for not showing up in sufficient numbers come election day.
 

mescalineeyes

Banned
May 12, 2018
4,444
Vienna
She's been complicit for over 10 years.

Little do many know that she had a chance to nail George W. Bush for lying about WMDs but used similar stall tactics/excuses/hand-waving there as well.

Here is the related article.

Fuck Nancy Pelosi to be honest.
yeah but at least back then she was still nice with it now it's just like "go back to twitter you socialist ghouls and leave Queen Pelosi alone"
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,494
Miami
She's been complicit for over 10 years.

Little do many know that she had a chance to nail George W. Bush for lying about WMDs but used similar stall tactics/excuses/hand-waving there as well.

Here is the related article.

Fuck Nancy Pelosi to be honest.
A lot of folks have said it recently but the honest truth is that she's not a revolutionary. She wants Dems in power and peace, not upheaval. I just don't think she has the capability to recognize the difference between a partisan disagreement and actual fucking war crimes which is depressing and sad but probably common for someone from her generation.

Look at how many people these days seem to think that racism is just an "opinion" to be debated. Kids in cages probably is probably something up for debate to someone like that too.
 

mescalineeyes

Banned
May 12, 2018
4,444
Vienna
A lot of folks have said it recently but the honest truth is that she's not a revolutionary. She wants Dems in power and peace, not upheaval. I just don't think she has the capability to recognize the difference between a partisan disagreement and actual fucking war crimes which is depressing and sad but probably common for someone from her generation.

Look at how many people these days seem to think that racism is just an "opinion" to be debated. Kids in cages probably is probably something up for debate to someone like that too.

so she's just dumb gotcha
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,699
if you want to be cynical her goal is 4 more years of Trump because it's good for dem fund raising.

as for her *actual* goal, no one knows. If someone still thinks there's some sort of master plan behind this I don't know what to tell them.

I think it's obvious that the only thing she cares about is hanging on to the title of speaker.

She doesn't want to get anything done
She doesn't want to hold trump accountable
She doesn't want to uphold the law.

She wants that title.


Actually, that's not fair. Nancy wants to do everything she can to keep Trump's concentration camp's open and free of oversight. And she want's to keep being called "madame speaker"

Well, go fuck yourself, madam speaker.