Nancy Pelosi mocks AOC & left-wing opposition to Border funding bill: “They have their public whatever and their Twitter world”

Balphon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,004
The problem with the arguments that suggest if we dont fund them they might get worse assume we want them to refuse funding and then do nothing further to remedy the matter. Strip them of funding, push for great oversight including public access to closely monitor the ongoings of these camps. Weve already seen public consciousness have an effect on their behavior. No one is saying just not to fund them and be done with it.
But what do you do about ORR in the interim? Is your argument premised on the assumption that they were lying about being out of money?

Putting aside the fact that the crisis is of Trump’s own making, the problem remains.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,175
But what do you do about ORR in the interim? Is your argument premised on the assumption that they were lying about being out of money?

Putting aside the fact that the crisis is of Trump’s own making, the problem remains.
The argument is premised on the fact that the prisoners would not receive a penny of assistance, money or no.
 
Nov 2, 2017
411
But what do you do about ORR in the interim? Is your argument premised on the assumption that they were lying about being out of money?

Putting aside the fact that the crisis is of Trump’s own making, the problem remains.
There are resources that are not being utilized, and the reason why is because they're not places that they can cage people, because they're shelters and not concentration camps, because they're places where people could have ready access to legal aid. They're perfectly sufficient for the actual task at hand, and are only insufficient in advancing the Trump Administration's agenda of intentional cruelty.

And all of this ignores that the root of this is because they're deliberately choosing to detain people that they could easily release without problems. If you make a choice to detain a bunch of people just because and then you can't handle the influx that you created, the problem that needs to be solved isn't "how are we going to clothe and feed all these people we've needlessly locked away?"
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,810
But what do you do about ORR in the interim? Is your argument premised on the assumption that they were lying about being out of money?

Putting aside the fact that the crisis is of Trump’s own making, the problem remains.
There are valid alternatives to these camps. The camps don't exist out of necessity or because they're cheaper. They exist because of the cruelty which can then be used as a deterrence against future immigrants who decide to cross the border.
 

Balphon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,004
There are resources that are not being utilized, and the reason why is because they're not places that they can cage people, because they're shelters and not concentration camps, because they're places where people could have ready access to legal aid. They're perfectly sufficient for the actual task at hand, and are only insufficient in advancing the Trump Administration's agenda of intentional cruelty.

And all of this ignores that the root of this is because they're deliberately choosing to detain people that they could easily release without problems. If you make a choice to detain a bunch of people just because and then you can't handle the influx that you created, the problem that needs to be solved isn't "how are we going to clothe and feed all these people we've needlessly locked away?"
Oh believe me, I am more than willing to stipulate that the administration’s barbarism is the root of the problem. But to the extent that they’ve created a crisis in the immigration system for unaccompanied kids, it’s one that actually does have to be addressed.

There are valid alternatives to these camps. The camps don't exist out of necessity or because they're cheaper. They exist because of the cruelty which can then be used as a deterrence against future immigrants who decide to cross the border.
...right, which is why I’m asking about ORR funding.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
453
We should make a gofundme for one of us to take a job at one of these facilities and be a whistleblower leaking shit.
 

Mr. X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,761

ICE opened 3 more detention centers.
Im sure Congress will be shocked they lied. Like everyone expected.
 

floridaguy954

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,321
If Trump isnt the person to use the impeachment process on then who the fuck is, honestly?
Exactly. The impeachment process has been used on individuals with offenses exponentially less than Trump, to great effect. Attempting to impeach Trump will undoubtedly be a homerun in comparison.

Incrementalist will try their best to convince people otherwise, but alas, I cannot see their arguments since they are most likely on my ignore list by now.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,442

ICE opened 3 more detention centers.
Im sure Congress will be shocked they lied. Like everyone expected.
This on top of how ineffectual they’ve been at enforcing subpoenas and not impeaching...

Democrats are weak on purpose. They fucking roll over and even help republicans. They went back to their bullshit default mode after giving them a house majority. It doesn’t matter if we give Dems majorities, if they’re all corporate tools paid to throw the fight, they’ll do everything to hamstring themselves before actually fixing the deep rooted issues that plague this country, and they leave the door wide open for dangerous republican fascist authority.
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,912
This on top of how ineffectual they’ve been at enforcing subpoenas and not impeaching...

Democrats are weak on purpose. They fucking roll over and even help republicans. They went back to their bullshit default mode after giving them a house majority. It doesn’t matter if we give Dems a majorities, if they’re all corporate tools paid to throw the fight, they’ll do everything to hamstring themselves before actually fixing the deep rooted issues that plague this country, and they leave the door wide open for dangerous republican fascist authority.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,442
It’s especially exasperating now that we’re switching gears to fascism. Like, COME THE FUCK ON! They really haven’t found some deep hidden moral conviction at this point to stop with the same old games of chasing republicans to the right. It’s hard for me to not feel like we’re fucked. We’re so fucking fucked. Full fascism is coming.
 

Jeremy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
717
I can't help but believe that if Pelosi became a hardliner on something like Impeachment the Democratic coalition in the House would fall apart.

Right now its unity is literally our only governmental safeguard against an unchecked Trump.

Yes, I'm bitter about her statements, but I have to believe there's some method to the madness, cowardly as it appears.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,895
Terana
not a great week for nancy. i know she's gotta kowtow to the moderates in her caucus but no sense following them down that path. just bad politics at this point.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,308
Bandung Indonesia
Just read on ProPublica and TheIntercept about border guys having secret facebook group where they posted all sorts of racists, sexist, and vile crap (like saying AOC needs to be raped when she visits, something to that effect), etc etc.

I just think that those kind of people are not exactly the ones that you can compromise with... no matter what.

Speaking of which, have the honorable Madam Speaker ever deigned to share some of her time to visit any of these detention center? This is surely a matter worth doing that, yea?
 

Brazil

The Dude of Prophecy
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
8,619
São Paulo, Brazil
I can't help but believe that if Pelosi became a hardliner on something like Impeachment the Democratic coalition in the House would fall apart.

Right now its unity is literally our only governmental safeguard against an unchecked Trump.

Yes, I'm bitter about her statements, but I have to believe there's some method to the madness, cowardly as it appears.
I have a hard time grasping how you think Trump is somehow “checked” right now.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,250
Sydney
You conflated EPA and Planned Parenthood funding with not brutalizing, torturing and killing human beings as competing 'ideologies' that should be opposed by similar means, and that's fucking asinine.
I'm not sure you really understood my post at all.

I'm saying the Democrats should do to child jails what the GOP has been doing to do to the EPA and Planned Parenthood, because defunding an organisation is an effective way of suppressing its activity.
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
Tokyo
I have a hard time grasping how you think a non-unified Democratic party or GOP control would lead to less power for Trump.
I'm not really sure what is meant by 'unified', does it mean everyone votes the same way? I think it would probably be more beneficial to have lawmakers vote for what is right, if that happens wouldn't they automatically be unified? If unified means voting to fund these kinds of services, I'd seriously question it being a good thing to strive for.

I'm out of this silly semantic game.

I am on your side guys... Don't be antagonistic.
Sorry. It's just hard on everyone watch America become this...
 

Shy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,500
Just read on ProPublica and TheIntercept about border guys having secret facebook group where they posted all sorts of racists, sexist, and vile crap (like saying AOC needs to be raped when she visits, something to that effect), etc etc.

I just think that those kind of people are not exactly the ones that you can compromise with... no matter what.
White moderates.

Speaking of which, have the honorable Madam Speaker ever deigned to share some of her time to visit any of these detention center? This is surely a matter worth doing that, yea?
This is your answer.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,442
Unity in inefficacy. With their powers combined, Democrats form the world’s finest doormat for republicans and Trump to wipe their feet on.
 

GiantBreadbug

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,087
Iitate-mura, Japan
I'm out of this silly semantic game.

I am on your side guys... Don't be antagonistic.
Using the term "unity" is not a great choice considering it's become one of the Dems' favorite dogwhistles for those on the left. In any case, the entire point is that their "unity" is fragile and nearly meaningless when you hold it up to the capitulations they're so regularly making now. They need to be unified in doing what's right. Not this.
 

Boiled Goose

Member
Nov 2, 2017
7,262
Unity in inefficacy. With their powers combined, Democrats form the world’s finest doormat for republicans and Trump to wipe their feet on.
Who should unite with whom?

Should progressives side with the leadership that enables Trump? The side doing nothing about concentration camps?

Or should leadership side with progressives? Who resist trump? Bring awareness to critical issues? And generally have the backing of the Democratic base regarding polling on policy?
 

RailWays

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,157
Oh man i can feel the fucking HEAT on the email the dems are going to politely send.

holy shit did the admin just shoot themselves in the foot! lol. Falling right into the trap.
Problem is they'll keep believing these people not operating out of good faith because of the sanctity of "bipartisanship" or whatever bullshit.

Everyone saw this result coming, yet leadership gave in weakly. Fuck the "Schumer tied our hands" bullshit, the house should have rejected it.