Nancy Pelosi mocks AOC & left-wing opposition to Border funding bill: “They have their public whatever and their Twitter world”

RailWays

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,157
Even here, they're describing what they're going to do. I dont know if dems have actually held anyone in contempt yet (which is why I asked) or what it would look like when they do.
No, They haven't pushed for any action yet. They just held the vote.

The thing is, Barr can give whatever recommendations he wants, but the House needs to go to the courts on these, because then it would actually force Barr to oppose the court orders. If they opt to not push any further because "it won't change anything" Barr/Republicans just get to own the messaging of how the committee "overstepped its authority" or whatever nonsense.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
453
The take is that AOC's bill would result in the exact same thing and therefore we are being hypocrites because we would not attack AOC as much. And again the idea that we secretly want the children dying because we want accelerationism.
Oh please, I don't presume anyone here wants children to die.

I'm a realist not in the sense I know the political game and am trying to school anyone but in the sense that I recognize that people die just making the trek to the border, people die in our care because of poor health that's not our fault, people die in our care due to poor care that is our fault, that the longer these concentration camps, not afraid to say it
Commedieu, are open more people will die in our care in the long term and if we allow the concentration camps' conditions to worsen under accelerationism some more people will die in the short term, I recognize that the more people we send back to their home countries will result in more of their deaths and that the more people we let into our country that some deaths will occur here. I afford all of you the basic assumption that nobody wants anyone to die but I recognize that people die under any decision made, even my preferred personal solution of being relatively lax on immigration and refugee matters means that by default some Americans will die as a result and I don't shy away from that because there's no position I can take where literally no-one fucking dies.

Now, I never said you wouldn't attack AOC as much but if you're saying you wouldn't attack her as much then, uh, you would be a hypocrite I guess? But my real goal was to get people to step back for a moment when discussing this issue that has a lot of concurrent news bites that are related by theme but set into motion at various times and that's, admittedly heavy shit. There's people in here acting like "moderates" are ok with concentration camps which I think is a generally absurd take, as absurd of a take as you should have taken it if I had said you were ok with children dying if we withheld further funding from ICE, CPB and DHS. I mean, people probably would die if we withheld funding but that doesn't mean you're ok with it, that's the problem when addressing monstrous problems like this where all the plays are monstrous and the only real winning play is to not get to this point to begin with. But we're here. So I'm getting frustrated by takes like Congress believed the administration, because I don't think any adult in Congress believes the administration, they're just weird fucking twitter takes that people are latching onto to make it seem like their centrist Democrat villains are getting played because they're stupid and falling for traps when nobody's getting played, they know the administration is shit they just made a judgement call to pass something, that you may or may not agree with that's fine, in the hopes it alleviates some of the suffering. And I really don't get blaming Pelosi for things that wouldn't have stopped under AOC's bill while championing her bill.

at least have the guts to post dumb shit like this on your main account
I did.
They're not even arguing in good faith or, in my opinion, with any sincerity. Either they're stirring the pot, or they're supporters of this shit.
Again stuff like this, this is what I don't get and it's a toxic mentality.
You realize intentions matter to constituents as well, right? If there was a scenario where the house democrats shot down the Schumer/McConnell bill in which the administration still opened sites, people certainly wouldn't be arguing about the House's role in the matter.
Sure. Which is why I said I understood the take from the posters who wanted to pass nothing. I personally believe that we would have lost that fight, but that's just an opinion and I would have supported the fight regardless in the hopes of being wrong.
 

Commedieu

Member
Nov 11, 2017
5,655
Oh please, I don't presume anyone here wants children to die.

I'm a realist not in the sense I know the political game and am trying to school anyone but in the sense that I recognize that people die just making the trek to the border, people die in our care because of poor health that's not our fault, people die in our care due to poor care that is our fault, that the longer these concentration camps, not afraid to say it
Commedieu, are open more people will die in our care in the long term and if we allow the concentration camps' conditions to worsen under accelerationism some more people will die in the short term, I recognize that the more people we send back to their home countries will result in more of their deaths and that the more people we let into our country that some deaths will occur here. I afford all of you the basic assumption that nobody wants anyone to die but I recognize that people die under any decision made, even my preferred personal solution of being relatively lax on immigration and refugee matters means that by default some Americans will die as a result and I don't shy away from that because there's no position I can take where literally no-one fucking dies.

Now, I never said you wouldn't attack AOC as much but if you're saying you wouldn't attack her as much then, uh, you would be a hypocrite I guess? But my real goal was to get people to step back for a moment when discussing this issue that has a lot of concurrent news bites that are related by theme but set into motion at various times and that's, admittedly heavy shit. There's people in here acting like "moderates" are ok with concentration camps which I think is a generally absurd take, as absurd of a take as you should have taken it if I had said you were ok with children dying if we withheld further funding from ICE, CPB and DHS. I mean, people probably would die if we withheld funding but that doesn't mean you're ok with it, that's the problem when addressing monstrous problems like this where all the plays are monstrous and the only real winning play is to not get to this point to begin with. But we're here. So I'm getting frustrated by takes like Congress believed the administration, because I don't think any adult in Congress believes the administration, they're just weird fucking twitter takes that people are latching onto to make it seem like their centrist Democrat villains are getting played because they're stupid and falling for traps when nobody's getting played, they know the administration is shit they just made a judgement call to pass something, that you may or may not agree with that's fine, in the hopes it alleviates some of the suffering. And I really don't get blaming Pelosi for things that wouldn't have stopped under AOC's bill while championing her bill.

I did.
Again stuff like this, this is what I don't get and it's a toxic mentality.
Sure. Which is why I said I understood the take from the posters who wanted to pass nothing. I personally believe that we would have lost that fight, but that's just an opinion and I would have supported the fight regardless in the hopes of being wrong.
If you're a realist, don't you also have to understand that this isn't a political game? The republicans aren't playing a game. They're destroying the gameboard/instructions. They are fascists trying to dismantle the country, and have continued to do so. Every pick is opposite day of their job duty. They ignore the game, the laws, the guidelines, the gentleman's agreement this country was founded on. So, playing that game is effectively playing yourself while Trump & Co continue to destroy the nation. At this point, the only thing you can do is fight any way you can, and get the public support of non trumpites.

We'd never know about alternative dimensions until we figure out dark matter, but I'd shit on AOC if she was doing what pelosi did. I was very very happy with pelosi, then she started shitting up the joint... I also used to be a republican... *shudders*... Its not teams for a lot of people its, white supremacy/fascism needing to be confronted in a myriad of ways. Internet points of proving someone is a hypocrite means dog balls... Maybe people just like AOC more, who knows. But that isn't some grand gotcha while we're discussing concentration camps, and a weak leader.

"Moderates" are ok with a lot of things that other democrats, especially people of color, are not. The concentration camps hit home for a lot of people, because they know if it starts with mexicans, it sure as shit isn't going to stop there. That is what the fight is about, its no longer a political game of chess. Its a meaningful fight where you choose to be on the right side of history. The fact that we're debating concentration camp bills and funding highlights the dire situation. None of this should be at thi spoint, but we are here now. The fight is obvious.

You can't be a centrist with certain issues and human rights violations. Thats why people, at least myself, shit all over those people. I'm only a guest at the democratic party, not a participant as a black person. The republicans were a tad worse.. thats about it. But there is no common ground to be found with todays political teams. one is literally promoting a white supremacist agenda and making everyone poor, the other is trying to figure out how to compromise with those goals. I know a lot of liberals who think blue lives matter, or that immigration from mexico is a big problem.

Congress & Pelosi believe they can work with republicans, the same way joe biden does. Their actions speak to this fact. Nothing leads me to an honest conclusion that they believe otherwise. No need to read tea leaves, read their actions. Fuck twitter.

They're all the old guard, they're experts at the political game you're talking about. But that blocks them from being able to accept reality. Pelosi is saying a fascist should impeach himself, what is your genuine response to that sort of bullshit? That mindset is pathetic. They don't have better things to do besides fight off this administration and embolden the public with information and a plan to show up and get this fuckstain into the history books.

I don't see the winning strategy here. But, its all we officially have.
 
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M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,613
The actual solution is to not have Republicans in power in the first place.
Yeah I've heard that one before. Republicans didn't stop fighting for their awful policies when they lost control of congress or the presidency. And they managed to shit up the political discourse and consistently get most of what they wanted.

Meanwhile the Democrats always come up with an excuse for why they're doing fuck all. It's one thing to hear this nonsense when they didn't have any control. But they've got the House and we still get the same excuse. If they somehow manage to defeat Trump, it'll be "Oh boy, we still don't have the Senate, our hands are tied, we pinky swear! But keep voting for us, we promise we'll do something... eventually."

Intent AND messaging matter. If you're being forced to dole out extortion money by terrorists, you make it loud and clear what's happening every day.

But as this abuse is going on, Pelosi seems more interested in resting on her ass while punching down at her own party than actually getting out there and sounding the 5 alarm fire to the public that literally none of what has happened these last several years is anything close to OK or anything close to being resolved, money or not.
If you're a realist, don't you also have to understand that this isn't a political game? The republicans aren't playing a game. They're destroying the gameboard/instructions. They are fascists trying to dismantle the country, and have continued to do so. Every pick is opposite day of their job duty. They ignore the game, the laws, the guidelines, the gentleman's agreement this country was founded on. So, playing that game is effectively playing yourself while Trump & Co continue to destroy the nation. At this point, the only thing you can do is fight any way you can, and get the public support of non trumpites.

We'd never know about alternative dimensions until we figure out dark matter, but I'd shit on AOC if she was doing what pelosi did. I was very very happy with pelosi, then she started shitting up the joint... I also used to be a republican... *shudders*... Its not teams for a lot of people its, white supremacy/fascism needing to be confronted in a myriad of ways. Internet points of proving someone is a hypocrite means dog balls... Maybe people just like AOC more, who knows. But that isn't some grand gotcha while we're discussing concentration camps, and a weak leader.

"Moderates" are ok with a lot of things that other democrats, especially people of color, are not. The concentration camps hit home for a lot of people, because they know if it starts with mexicans, it sure as shit isn't going to stop there. That is what the fight is about, its no longer a political game of chess. Its a meaningful fight where you choose to be on the right side of history. The fact that we're debating concentration camp bills and funding highlights the dire situation. None of this should be at thi spoint, but we are here now. The fight is obvious.

You can't be a centrist with certain issues and human rights violations. Thats why people, at least myself, shit all over those people. I'm only a guest at the democratic party, not a participant as a black person. The republicans were a tad worse.. thats about it. But there is no common ground to be found with todays political teams. one is literally promoting a white supremacist agenda and making everyone poor, the other is trying to figure out how to compromise with those goals. I know a lot of liberals who think blue lives matter, or that immigration from mexico is a big problem.

Congress & Pelosi believe they can work with republicans, the same way joe biden does. Their actions speak to this fact. Nothing leads me to an honest conclusion that they believe otherwise. No need to read tea leaves, read their actions. Fuck twitter.

They're all the old guard, they're experts at the political game you're talking about. But that blocks them from being able to accept reality. Pelosi is saying a fascist should impeach himself, what is your genuine response to that sort of bullshit? That mindset is pathetic. They don't have better things to do besides fight off this administration and embolden the public with information and a plan to show up and get this fuckstain into the history books.

I don't see the winning strategy here. But, its all we officially have.
FUCKING THISSSS
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
453
If you're a realist, don't you also have to understand that this isn't a political game? The republicans aren't playing a game. They're destroying the gameboard/instructions. They are fascists trying to dismantle the country, and have continued to do so. Every pick is opposite day of their job duty. They ignore the game, the laws, the guidelines, the gentleman's agreement this country was founded on. So, playing that game is effectively playing yourself while Trump & Co continue to destroy the nation. At this point, the only thing you can do is fight any way you can, and get the public support of non trumpites.
Oh I agree, I'm not playing a game here.

We'd never know about alternative dimensions until we figure out dark matter, but I'd shit on AOC if she was doing what pelosi did. I was very very happy with pelosi, then she started shitting up the joint... I also used to be a republican... *shudders*... Its not teams for a lot of people its, white supremacy/fascism needing to be confronted in a myriad of ways. Internet points of proving someone is a hypocrite means dog balls... Maybe people just like AOC more, who knows. But that isn't some grand gotcha while we're discussing concentration camps, and a weak leader.
Well it depends on what we're discussing.

I 100% think people should like AOC, Omar and Tlaib more than Pelosi, from what we've seen from their character versus Pelosi they're better people, their politics are better, why wouldn't someone like them more.

But since we're not playing games, since we are in an era where we have literal concentration camps I do think it's important to properly lay out blame and to properly point out actual solutions versus things that make us feel better.

In this specific case regarding the border bills the Justice Democrats' bill and the Senates' bill continued to enable these camps to continue. Now the Justice Democrats' bill was objectively better than the Senates but we're talking about degrees of monstrosity here in that case which is why I find it so absurd to deem that bill the standard and the Senate bill as supporting concentration camps, if the Senate bill Pelosi passed implies they're all ok with concentration camps so should the same label be applied to supporters of the Justice Democrats' bill. Now, clearly I don't believe any of them are actually ok with concentration camps which brings me to the real gripe which is implying everyone who voted for the Senate bill is.

Or if we're talking about twitter spats instead then again I think that win goes to the likes of AOC, Pelosi throws them under the bus all the time and she's totally being a hypocrite in that regard.

"Moderates" are ok with a lot of things that other democrats, especially people of color, are not. The concentration camps hit home for a lot of people, because they know if it starts with mexicans, it sure as shit isn't going to stop there. That is what the fight is about, its no longer a political game of chess. Its a meaningful fight where you choose to be on the right side of history. The fact that we're debating concentration camp bills and funding highlights the dire situation. None of this should be at thi spoint, but we are here now. The fight is obvious.
Well I agree with that.

You can't be a centrist with certain issues and human rights violations. Thats why people, at least myself, shit all over those people. I'm only a guest at the democratic party, not a participant as a black person. The republicans were a tad worse.. thats about it. But there is no common ground to be found with todays political teams. one is literally promoting a white supremacist agenda and making everyone poor, the other is trying to figure out how to compromise with those goals. I know a lot of liberals who think blue lives matter, or that immigration from mexico is a big problem.
While I agree with this overall my issue is with blanket statements not that it exists. Like I'm sure a lot of "centrists" held their nose voting for the Senate bill because they wanted to do anything to make conditions better since they don't control the actual policy, but I also believe that there's undoubtedly a few Democrats and for sure Republicans that are a-ok with concentration camps. I just don't think a vote on this particular emergency spending bill exposes them.

Congress & Pelosi believe they can work with republicans, the same way joe biden does. Their actions speak to this fact. Nothing leads me to an honest conclusion that they believe otherwise. No need to read tea leaves, read their actions. Fuck twitter.
While I want the Democratic Party to be in a position where it needn't concern itself with working with Republicans we have like 1/4 of the government right now. Biden sucks because he seems to pine for working with Republicans which is disgusting, and really just defeatist and demoralizing as a Presidential candidate. He should be out there trying to get a Democratic win so he doesn't have to, talking about stacking courts and shit and instead he's already acting like he'd squeak out a win and have to wheel and deal with Republicans. Fucking lame. Maybe that'd be the reality for any Democratic Presidential winner come 2020 but that shouldn't be the fucking hope.

They're all the old guard, they're experts at the political game you're talking about. But that blocks them from being able to accept reality. Pelosi is saying a fascist should impeach himself, what is your genuine response to that sort of bullshit? That mindset is pathetic. They don't have better things to do besides fight off this administration and embolden the public with information and a plan to show up and get this fuckstain into the history books.
I don't know what to say about Pelosi's idiotic comments about self impeachment. He's clearly not self-impeaching, it's not his responsibility to impeach himself, she should go fuck herself with that whole idea. It is cowardly. I don't even know that her political metric is accurate, I support starting impeachment procedures.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,514
New York City
Yeah I've heard that one before. Republicans didn't stop fighting for their awful policies when they lost control of congress or the presidency. And they managed to shit up the political discourse and consistently get most of what they wanted.

Meanwhile the Democrats always come up with an excuse for why they're doing fuck all. It's one thing to hear this nonsense when they didn't have any control. But they've got the House and we still get the same excuse. If they somehow manage to defeat Trump, it'll be "Oh boy, we still don't have the Senate, our hands are tied, we pinky swear! But keep voting for us, we promise we'll do something... eventually."
They don't stop fighting for it because they are a cult.. They don't stop fighting for it because they are hell bent on making sure there is no progressive agenda left to thrive. The situation doesn't change even after you've been promised change and don't get it after the hundredth time. All of the scorn you feel doesn't eliminate the opposition and their mission to destroy you.It helps it in fact.
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,613
They don't stop fighting for it because they are a cult.. They don't stop fighting for it because they are hell bent on making sure there is no progressive agenda left to thrive. The situation doesn't change even after you've been promised change and don't get it after the hundredth time. All of the scorn you feel doesn't eliminate the opposition and their mission to destroy you.It helps it in fact.
No shit, that's precisely why we're even more sick and tired of the Dem leadership's chickenshit behavior.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,442
Who should unite with whom?

Should progressives side with the leadership that enables Trump? The side doing nothing about concentration camps?

Or should leadership side with progressives? Who resist trump? Bring awareness to critical issues? And generally have the backing of the Democratic base regarding polling on policy?
I think you misunderstood me. Usually it’s the Trump enabling side that’s doing all the calling for unity, but it’s really a veiled call for progressives to adopt their ineffectual temperament. That’s what I was mocking
 
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Albert

Member
Oct 25, 2017
728
It really is telling how Pelosi won't hesitate to throw women of color like Maxine Waters or Ilhan Omar under the bus but she'll stick her neck out for the likes of anti-gay, anti-ACA Dan Lipinski (who has never shown Pelosi or the Democratic Party the slightest hint of loyalty).
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,109
She had a chance to pass the party on better than where she found it, but it's clear she's just holding the line for centrist-conservative party members. The centrist dem caucus is 10x more disruptive than the freshmen members in the press, procedure, and voting; and have challenged Pelosi and Co. for leadership of the party repeatedly. She chooses to attack the minority freshmen for voicing ideas that are popular with voters regardless of party and that will help their constituents.
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,304
For everyone saying this is a strategic thing... Yes, attacking these congresswomen is a strategy to curb progressivism in the party.

But as for the actual funding bill in question... Mitch McConnell understands some basic things about strategy in the current era of politics that Pelosi and the other dinosaurs he opposes still haven't come to grips with just yet.

There is *nothing* realistic about continuing to cling to a dated ideal that you can appeal to the other party and gain a single thing from the transaction. It doesn't appeal to their voters, and under McConnell they'll simply shake your hand and spit in your face immediately after.

She's not being "realistic," she's clinging to a notion that depresses turnout. The midterm boom came after a long bleed of hundreds of seats before Trump lit a fire under people's asses to come out. Dems won't get to repeat that phenomenon next time.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,175

Well gee, if only there was a power the democrats have that can be used to stop such atrocities! Oh well, let's continue to wag our finger at progressives and blame them for our own incompetence! /s
 

sangreal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,439

Well gee, if only there was a power the democrats have that can be used to stop such atrocities! Oh well, let's continue to wag our finger at progressives and blame them for our own incompetence! /s
There is literally no power Democrats have to do that. If you wanted them to have any power you elected them to the wrong house of congress* let alone branch of government

I get that people want Democrats to grow a spine and impeach but don’t fool yourself that it would accomplish anything practical. I do think it would be good for the party and the country but it would absolutely not stop these actions

As for the quoted tweet it just sounds flippant/sarcastic not that she actually thinks that is a good strategy but judging second hand “quotes” off Twitter is dumb to begin with

*not that a Democratic majority in the Senate would even hold up a nominee under Schumer
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,538

This blows my mind. I can give the average American a pass on not understanding the evangelical strategy but for Pelosi to even directly mention that group specifically among faith based groups tells me she is not fit to be leader of the house.


This is very distressing that our party is going to make so many dumb own goal errors while Trump is in office.

I havea very strong belief that, despite Trump wanting to be a dictator, he lost his window of opportunity back in December 18-January 19 while Republicans haven't left their positions yet; but now, while I know for sure that door is still closed, I'm worried that with Dem leadership this inept his removal from office will be messier than it ever needed to be.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,017
Mainstream Democratic thought assumes everyone is speaking in good faith about their values, so "pro-life" really means they care about kids and not that they want to control women. When they don't turn out to be speaking in good faith:



I want to think maybe she can guilt trip them into appealing against ICE raids but I don't know. It strikes me as exceptionally naive.