Nancy Pelosi won’t send the articles of impeachment to the Senate until she feels they’ll get a fair hearing.

Poltergust

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,982
Orlando, FL
Because it’s one headline away from being framed as “Dems refuse to advance because he’s innocent and they know it and it’s all a sham.” Anything that easily defused isn’t brilliant.

This is a next-level circle-jerk, even for Era. And it’s not even a Marvel thread.
That's an idiotic way to frame things because if the Dems thought he was innocent, the Articles of Impeachment would not have been approved of in the first place.

With how brazen Graham and McConnell were in saying how they were going to side with Trump regardless of the facts laid before them, this is a completely natural response to that.
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,541
Miami
Because it’s one headline away from being framed as “Dems refuse to advance because he’s innocent and they know it and it’s all a sham.” Anything that easily defused isn’t brilliant.

This is a next-level circle-jerk, even for Era. And it’s not even a Marvel thread.
LOL, because he's innocent? Is that the news headline for the deaf/blind or for those who just emerged from caves?

Everyone knows he's guilty, this is all just politics for sport now.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,970
She certainly isn't left wing compared to some of the newer members of the party, so re-framing is necessary. Obama and Hillary are centrists compared to the likes of Warren or Sanders, for example.
She's left wing compared to both the party and the entire political system. She just isn't far left. Obama/Hilary weren't and aren't centrist either.

1/3 of the caucus voted against her in the last contested leadership race and that bloc is what your actual moderate to centrist types look like.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
7,775
Also Lindsey Graham today:


Sen. Lindsey Graham: "I don't want to speak for the president but if there's a witness request by the president, I'm going to say no. If there's a witness request by anybody, I'm going to say no. I want this to end quickly."
"I didn't take this job to listen to testimony."
"Sir you're the head of Senate Judiciary."
"The what on the what now?"
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,040
Because it’s one headline away from being framed as “Dems refuse to advance because he’s innocent and they know it and it’s all a sham.” Anything that easily defused isn’t brilliant.

This is a next-level circle-jerk, even for Era. And it’s not even a Marvel thread.
This is literally the talking point of Lindsey Graham on Twitter.
He's already demonstrated multiple times he has no interest in the merit of this impeachment inquiry.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,441
Texas
Because it’s one headline away from being framed as “Dems refuse to advance because he’s innocent and they know it and it’s all a sham.” Anything that easily defused isn’t brilliant.

This is a next-level circle-jerk, even for Era. And it’s not even a Marvel thread.
WH and dumbfuck Mitch/Lindsay are already flailing and people are still complaining. Yes, the Dems should only do things that the media may frame appropriately or that the GOP will be happy with.
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,541
Miami
Aren't they supposed to be impartial? Why aren't they at least pretending? Why so brazen about being partisan?
Because Trump's fragile ego demands it. It's just that simple.
Making this too easy for Pelosi. God damn, why are they so dumb?
I'm actually starting to wonder if Graham/McConnell aren't doing this on purpose because they hate Trump and want to watch him suffer while claiming that they're out there defending him?
 

Loan Wolf

Member
Nov 9, 2017
2,078
Pelosi always fluctuates from looking like she's making very good and very bad decisions. I hope the big picture gives the desired results for most of us.
 

Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,732
Because it’s one headline away from being framed as “Dems refuse to advance because he’s innocent and they know it and it’s all a sham.” Anything that easily defused isn’t brilliant.

This is a next-level circle-jerk, even for Era. And it’s not even a Marvel thread.
You do realize Republican talking points no longer work on anyone but the cultists right? Who gives a fuck. The bigger failing would absolutely be rolling over and letting the Republicans do whatever the fuck they feel they can get away with. I say fight fight fight.
 

Alcotholic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,883
Also Lindsey Graham today:




"I didn't take this job to listen to testimony."
"Sir you're the head of Senate Judiciary."
"The what on the what now?"
So, like, despite everything the party has said about respecting the president’s authority and decision making, fuck him? These guys need to be consistent. Otherwise they look like complete fucking fools.
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
Ever notice when we get a nice big win, people come out of the woodwork and complain? What the fuck? Gotta be Trump supporters.
 
Jul 7, 2019
596
WH and dumbfuck Mitch/Lindsay are already flailing and people are still complaining. Yes, the Dems should only do things that the media may frame appropriately or that the GOP will be happy with.
No, my larger point is that 70% of people are uninformed. It’s not that I, personally, believe that Democrats shouldn’t do things like this. I wish it were that simple.

It’s because it sort of doesn’t matter what I believe. And it does matter, exponentially, how it’s framed by the media.

On messaging, to a person who maybe sees/hears the occasional headline (already biased, in all likelihood), this looks really weird:

- Wanted to impeach
- Republicans complained about fairness
- Impeached
- Pressed Pause
- Democrats complained about fairness

I have no idea what kind of sense an uninformed voter is supposed to make of that. And without an obvious move, it feels like a dangerous place to wait.

When people are confused, that greatly benefits Trump. I think it’s cool the Democrats grew a spine, but I’m fucking terrified there’s no good way to spin this to the cheap seats.

Like, I don’t see the easy win so many see. I see what looks a shit ton like a partisan squabble (not fair! No, you’re not fair!), even if I, personally, know the reality.
 

Socivol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,185
I love this shit! Republicans are getting a taste of their own shit and hate it. The thing that's really appalling is that Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell have been overt about their intentions to sabotage this so the hypocrisy is hilarious.
 

Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,732
No, my larger point is that 70% of people are uninformed. It’s not that I, personally, believe that Democrats shouldn’t do things like this. I wish it were that simple.

It’s because it sort of doesn’t matter what I believe. And it does matter, exponentially, how it’s framed by the media.

On messaging, to a person who maybe sees/hears the occasional headline (already biased, in all likelihood), this looks really weird:

- Wanted to impeach
- Republicans complained about fairness
- Impeached
- Pressed Pause
- Democrats complained about fairness

I have no idea what kind of sense an uninformed voter is supposed to make of that. And without an obvious move, it feels like a dangerous place to wait.

When people are confused, that greatly benefits Trump. I think it’s cool the Democrats grew a spine, but I’m fucking terrified there’s no good way to spin this to the cheap seats.

Like, I don’t see the easy win so many see. I see what looks a shit ton like a partisan squabble (not fair! No, you’re not fair!), even if I, personally, know the reality.
You conveniently left out the part where Republicans announced that the Senate trial would be rigged.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
7,775
So, like, despite everything the party has said about respecting the president’s authority and decision making, fuck him? These guys need to be consistent. Otherwise they look like complete fucking fools.
Deep down people like Graham know that Trump is an idiot and possibly delusional - he genuinely believed he'd run circles around Mueller in a face to face, and he probably believes that he and his goons would be able to prance and sweet talk through a friendly Senate trial. They aren't going to allow him to fuck himself if they can help it.

So has this been confirmed that they really will hold off sending the articles of impeachment?
I think at the very least the fact that they weren't delivered ASAP indicates they are going to at least have Schumer negotiate for some semblance of a real proceeding.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,360
Nine pages later and I still don’t think this matters. Republicans will win the info war. They always do (and already have on impeachment, considering flailing support).

And to the person who compared this to Garland, um, no? Dems won’t get anything for this. Repubs got a lifetime justice.
Support has remained basically the same through out the entire process.
 

AstronaughtE

Member
Nov 26, 2017
2,132
I don't know what kind assurances the Senate could give that I would find believable. I just hope Nancy remembers what these cowards did on 9-11.
 

EloquentM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,578
The removal process. Can these statements come back to bite them in the ass in an official way?
I do not believe constitution the provide any specific guidance about that so like that other person said it’s solely a political process on that front, and the senate is controlled by a super majority.
 

Allard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
617
I don't know what kind assurances the Senate could give that I would find believable. I just hope Nancy remembers what these cowards did on 9-11.
Forcing Graham to recuse as leader of the judiciary during the trial is probably the minimum they should ask for at this point lol. He is outed himself as someone who has no intention of making a fair trial, so he can't lead the trial anymore.
 

Nude_Tayne

Member
Jan 8, 2018
1,771
earth
Just saw this, seems like a great idea.... Go Nanc'. Trump has the impeachment hanging around his neck indefinitely and he doesn't get an acquittal to gloat about. Moscow Mitch and his senate goons have been blatant about running a kangaroo court so the optics of not sending the impeachment to to the senate shouldn't be a problem if the Dems don't fuck it up (...sigh).
 

Dark Knight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,732
I think the point is that fact isn't "headline news" so an uninformed member of the public (probably the majority of all people if not only the Rep base) won't get that nuance
Does constant coverage and commentary on McConnell's and Graham's comments on CNN for 5 days straight count as headline news?
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
7,775
Devil is in the details:

When asked about the specific impeachment charges, 53% agreed that Trump abused his office and 51% agreed that he obstructed Congress.


Some 42% of respondents - most of them Democrats - said Congress should carry out its ultimate sanction and remove the president from office, as the Senate has the power to do.

Another 17% said Trump should be formally reprimanded with a congressional censure, 29% said they want the impeachment charges dismissed, and the rest said they did not have an opinion.
59% (42% removed, 17% censured) of the country believes he should be punished after his impeachment, but roughly 1/3 of those don't think we should go as far as removal. Only 29% support removing the charges. Those are great numbers.
 

EloquentM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,578
Congress does have rules underlining the guidelines of impeachment and removal, but again constitution says nothing so like you said as long as their constituents don’t care whether they follow these rules, they don’t care. It’s so weird that we’re in constant state of perpetual constitutional crisis.
 
Jul 7, 2019
596
Support has remained basically the same through out the entire process.
Keyword there is basically. But nevertheless, the point of impeachment was for evidence to sway polling and force the senate’s hand. It didn’t happen. That is a negative for the Democrats.
You conveniently left out the part where Republicans announced that the Senate trial would be rigged.
No, that was intentional. Because for it to matter, the narrative would have to have been that it was possible for him to be removed by the senate. We all knew they’d probably acquit, so it was rigged from there.
 

Sr Kitsune

Member
Oct 27, 2017
267
Ensenada, Mexico
I don't like the precedent this sets. What's to stop a Republican-controlled House from sending articles over after they've impeached a Democratic President until they have a more favorable position in a Senate Trial?
If a democratic president is impeached for articles similar to the ones presented for Trump. I'm sure most democrats would be calling for the Senate to have an impartial trial and convict if guilty. I don't think there would be support for a sham trial and expedite acquitted just because the president is democratic.
 

Beanman25

Member
Oct 25, 2017
348
Regardless. Seems like he won't be removed. And will get reelected because the Democratic party suppresses good candidates like Sanders. IMO he would take Trump down handily.