NBA FINALS 2019: My Little Finals Can't Be This Kawhi! | Warriors vs Raptors | OT | Started From Lebronto Now We're Here

Who wins?


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Gigglepoo

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Oct 25, 2017
3,469
I just don't think you can build a trade around Ball and Ingram considering their injury history. That's just too big of a risk for NO. Maybe they can find another team to take one or both of those question marks.
 

Swauny Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,758
RIP KD

Looks like he will miss the entire year, probably won't be the same player again either. Should be elite but he's on the wrong side of 30. I wonder if he picks up his option to spend next year rehabbing on the Warriors dime before ditching them in FA.
If I'm him I'm taking a max contract from whichever sucker is willing to pony it up while I rehab. It's too risky to wait out a year and hope for an offer next year which could be way less than he can get now.
 

Crumb

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Oct 25, 2017
3,523
I just don't think you can build a trade around Ball and Ingram considering their injury history. That's just too big of a risk for NO. Maybe they can find another team to take one or both of those question marks.
Even if Ingram is going to return to form and not deal with blood clots, you want to be the team that maxes him at age 22 and hopes he makes the jump? He isn't the asset Lakers fans like to say he is.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,649
A full year off seems a bit extreme. KD should be able to play by February of next year.

Now that doesn't guarantee he's going to be "old KD", but resting/rehabbing for longer than that likely isn't going to make that much of a difference.
 

Doomsayer

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Oct 25, 2017
1,354
A full year off seems a bit extreme. He should be able to play by January of next year.

Now that doesn't guarantee he's going to be "old KD", but resting/rehabbing for longer than that likely isn't going to make that much of a difference.
I don't know. Achilles injuries have the same rehabilitation time as ACLs. I would imagine he wouldn't want to rush it either.
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,709
Rushing somebody back from an Achilles tear is a good way to make sure that person will never fully recover

(Wherever KD is next year -- imo, probably golden state -- they should not be expecting him to suit up)
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,935
A full year off seems a bit extreme. KD should be able to play by February of next year.

Now that doesn't guarantee he's going to be "old KD", but resting/rehabbing for longer than that likely isn't going to make that much of a difference.
The most recent example, DeMarcus Cousins, had taken 357 days before finally playing a basketball game (and there are guys before him who took less days). A full year isn't extreme. It just depends on the person's body.
 

Gigglepoo

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Oct 25, 2017
3,469
Even if Ingram is going to return to form and not deal with blood clots, you want to be the team that maxes him at age 22 and hopes he makes the jump? He isn't the asset Lakers fans like to say he is.
Yeah, that's a good point. Ingram will get a max offer from some desperate team so New Orelans would have to be prepared to pay him 4/$120 or whatever restricted free agents get. Seems like a terrible idea. I'd still pull the trigger if Ingram was just one of many good pieces, though. But if it's Ingram, Ball, and #4, he's one with the best chance of making an All Star team. Not a good enough haul for a top 10 player.

I believe an ACL injury is worse.
It's not even close. Players come back from ACL tears all the time and are 99% of what they were pre-injury. No NBA player has come back even close to what he once was after blowing an achilles. See: Dominque, Kobe, Cousins, Gay.
 

Tom Penny

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Oct 26, 2017
6,492
Yeah, that's a good point. Ingram will get a max offer from some desperate team so New Orelans would have to be prepared to pay him 4/$120 or whatever restricted free agents get. Seems like a terrible idea. I'd still pull the trigger if Ingram was just one of many good pieces, though. But if it's Ingram, Ball, and #4, he's one with the best chance of making an All Star team. Not a good enough haul for a top 10 player.
If Ingram doesn't get suspended last year he's probably an All star.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,649
Yeah, that's a good point. Ingram will get a max offer from some desperate team so New Orelans would have to be prepared to pay him 4/$120 or whatever restricted free agents get. Seems like a terrible idea. I'd still pull the trigger if Ingram was just one of many good pieces, though. But if it's Ingram, Ball, and #4, he's one with the best chance of making an All Star team. Not a good enough haul for a top 10 player.



It's not even close. Players come back from ACL tears all the time and are 99% of what they were pre-injury. No NBA player has come back even close to what he once was after blowing an achilles. See: Dominque, Kobe, Cousins, Gay.
In terms of recovery time though, I meant an ACL tear can be more all over the place in terms of how long it takes to heal.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,649
Are you just making up numbers? Because you're way off.



Are you trying to make Gobert cry?
Quite a few athletes do come back from achilles tears after 7-8 months. Kobe Bryant did it and he was about 4 years older at that time IIRC. You can take a year off fully but I don't think it's really after a certain point going to make a big difference in how you can play, it is what it is.
 

Gigglepoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,469
In terms of recovery time though, I meant an ACL tear can be more all over the place in terms of how long it takes to heal.
Players come back usually come back in less than a year from an ACL tear and are roughly back to full strength after 2 years. Players come back after roughly a year with an achilles tear and are back to full strength roughly never. In no world is blowing out your achilles preferable to tearing your ACL.
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,709
Coming back after 7-8 months isn't really "rushing it" though, that's pretty much the standard recovery time + an extra month or two tacked on.
It's rushing. 7-8 months is an incredibly optimistic timeline.

Quite a few athletes do come back from achilles tears after 7-8 months. Kobe Bryant did it and he was about 4 years older at that time IIRC. You can take a year off fully but I don't think it's really after a certain point going to make a big difference in how you can play, it is what it is.
Did Kobe come back from his Achilles injury?
 

OfficerRob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,555
Coming back after 7-8 months isn't really "rushing it" though, that's pretty much the standard recovery time + an extra month or two tacked on.
Boogie had surgery to repair his torn Achilles on January 31st 2018, he returned to the NBA January 18, 2019 and has been a shell of his former self. His lateral movement is NOTHING like it was before the injury
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,649
Boogie had surgery to repair his torn achilles on January 31st 2018, he returned to the NBA January 18, 2019 and has been a shell of his former self. His lateral movement is NOTHING like it was before the injury
Yeah which kinda just shows the injury is what it is. You can rehab for a year and take a full year off, but really it is what it is.

You're not going to be that much better by resting an extra 2-3 months past the initial healing period which usually takes 6-8 months.

You will certainly though prevent the chances of reinjury by sitting out. I mean that's a given.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,935
Yeah which kinda just shows the injury is what it is. You can rehab for a year and take a full year off, but really it is what it is.

You're not going to be that much better by resting an extra 2-3 months past the initial healing period which usually takes 6-8 months.

You will certainly though prevent the chances of reinjury by sitting out. I mean that's a given.
That's not necessarily correct. Yes, an achilles injury is pretty devastating, but the real story is on the player's 2nd year after the injury. If they cannot keep the same or similar performance levels, that's when you know they're finished.

I'm pretty optimistic about Durant's ability to maintain his performance levels considering he doesn't rely on athleticism as much as other players who were destroyed by this injury.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,649
I like how we're all doctors in here.
Not a doctor but I do know a hockey player that suffered an ACL tear one year (a bad one) and then the very next summer tore his achilles working out. Brutal.

Stay away from the stupid box jumping exercises, folks.

I have a friend who has achilles issues and his dumb ass gym trainer was trying to get him to do box jumps, I had to tell him to stop that immediately.
 

mjp2417

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,008
The thing with KD is we kinda have an existing template of what a less athletic 7'0" sharpshooter would like. Dirk was pretty good at basketball.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,935
When it comes to eventually returning to at or near your athletic level before injury, give me an ACL injury every day before an Achilles
Yeah we have good amount of players across multiple sports that maintained their performance levels after suffering an ACL injury. The number of players who came back as themselves from an achilles injury is significantly lower. Dominique Wilkins is the only one who kept his levels, and the jury is still out on DeMarcus Cousins.
 

UltraMagnus

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Oct 27, 2017
5,649
Dirk was a bit heavier through and more apt to get himself in the post, KD can adjust but it's also hard to do so in the your 30s because you're used to playing one way and all of the sudden you have new limits to play within. It can be a difficult adjustment.

I think he can still be a 20+ ppg player, but 28-30+ ppg, probably not.
 

Smurf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,065
Wouldn't Klay not being eligible for the supermax actually increase his chances of leaving since teams can now offer him the same amount of money as the Warriors?
Not really. He loves it and is loved there, it's a perfect fit for his skillset. IMO the most likely scenario where he would leave would be him being eligible for the supermax but the team wanting him to take a pay cut.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,935
Dirk was a bit heavier through and more apt to get himself in the post, KD can adjust but it's also hard to do so in the your 30s because you're used to playing one way and all of the sudden you have new limits to play within. It can be a difficult adjustment.

I think he can still be a 20+ ppg player, but 28-30+ ppg, probably not.
Is that really any different from Giannis, Simmons, etc. who are now having to adjust their games after being used to playing a certain way? Granted, they have more years, but it's not as if it's easier on them when they're used to playing a certain way ever since they were young. It's just difficult in general to change styles.
 
Oct 30, 2017
599
Yeah we have good amount of players across multiple sports that maintained their performance levels after suffering an ACL injury. The number of players who came back as themselves from an achilles injury is significantly lower. Dominique Wilkins is the only one who kept his levels, and the jury is still out on DeMarcus Cousins.
I think it's also important to note that medical science is always coming up with new treatments, surgeries, and rehabilitation schemes - players not coming back from these injuries in the past is not necessarily indicative of how players will be coming back from the injury in the present or future
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,319
I kinda want the Warriors to get it more less for the three peat and more for KD. It’s so shitty if after all this they still lose.
 
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