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NBC News: Inside Bernie-world's war on Beto O'Rourke
- Thread starter Deleted member 2426
- Start date
What are you talking about? it's the exact opposite. Hillary had the overwhelming minority support because we try to protect our gains.
man, you guys really love to talk about "unelectable" candidates
you know who was really electable, according to mainstream consensus? hillary clinton
you know who was really unelectable, according to mainstream consensus? donald trump
like... maybe it's time to accept that the concept of "electability" has almost nothing to do with "whether or not a candidate can win a general election" (which is something that nobody knows the answer to, especially not you, random person on the internet) and is entirely a fiction generated to push certain types of candidates at the expense of others. the only way around this, to some extent, is to base "electability" on head-to-head polling generated around the end of the primary season. that's how you can get the best (but still not good) insight into who can beat the other dude.
surely that's a better way of determining who the "most electable" candidate is than just like projecting your biases onto all of America so you get the result you want.
you know who was really electable, according to mainstream consensus? hillary clinton
you know who was really unelectable, according to mainstream consensus? donald trump
like... maybe it's time to accept that the concept of "electability" has almost nothing to do with "whether or not a candidate can win a general election" (which is something that nobody knows the answer to, especially not you, random person on the internet) and is entirely a fiction generated to push certain types of candidates at the expense of others. the only way around this, to some extent, is to base "electability" on head-to-head polling generated around the end of the primary season. that's how you can get the best (but still not good) insight into who can beat the other dude.
surely that's a better way of determining who the "most electable" candidate is than just like projecting your biases onto all of America so you get the result you want.
I should meet this "Mainstream Consensus" person. They sound like a hoot.
I love this rhetoric from centrist so much and the fact that they learned nothing from 2016 in their misplaced arrogance and their insistence that Bernie bros stole the election despite repeated proof of the contrary.
Watch one of his rallies. He is the most charismatic Democrat since Obama. He draws 50k+ crowds for a Senate race and gives barn burner speeches. People see that and get excited and invested in him.
He also comes across as very very very down to earth and authentic, more so than again any Democrat since Obama for example:
People get excited by Beto because they see a politician who comes across as authentic and charismatic and think "this guy can crush Trump".
It is two difference perspective. Bernie fans want to find the most leftist candidate possible, electability it not a primary concern. Beto fans wants to find someone they think is the strongest candidate to beat Trump as long as they are as progressive the vein of Obama (which Beto is).
Bernie fans are not invested in winning as the #1 goal, they are invested in trying to push as left of an agenda as humanly possible. Beto fans are focused on trying to find a path that is the strongest way to beat Trump and they think someone energetic, young, and charismatic with Obama like policies is the best way to achieve that goal.
Basically its two divergent goals:
One side is focused on trying to push as leftist of an agenda as possible, even if that means losing an election here and there for the greater cause. One side is focused on finding the strongest path to beat Trump by the largest % possible to drag along more senate and house wins with them,.
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The fact that the word policy doesn't appear in this post once tells you everything you need to know.
think of them as chris matthews, but slightly less annoying
Again as I said Bernie fans #1 goal is push as leftist of an agenda as possible.
Others want to find the strongest general election candidate that has the best odds of beating Trump and having coattails to pull in as many additional senate and house seats as possible.
Wanting to focus on pushing a lefist ideology at the expensive of maybe losing some elections is no less worthy or "better" of a goal than having a primary focus on finding the best path to winning.
He lost to Ted Cruz during the biggest democrat victory in like 50 years
This is an embarrassingly ignorant comment, come on. Be smarter than this. He lost to him in deep red Texas. where Cruz is popular, more popular than Trump. He did better than any Democrat has done in decades and he helped TONS of local Democrats win on his coat-tails, dozens and dozens of liberal judges. Multiple house seats.
He beat polls there and did better than he had any right to do.
Look at the alternatives, all 70+ or are too far left.
That's a tad disingenuous. It's still Texas, one of the safest places in the world for a Republican to be a Republican. The fact that Beto made it a race at all is commendable.
Being young, charismatic, and coming across as authentic is a powerful asset in a Presidential election. Dismissing that doesn't change that fact.
What does winning even mean at this point? Exchanging Donald Trump for someone else who does almost the same dumb shit just with a more agreeable demeanor is not going to cut it. We need a clear path to averting the climate crisis, poverty and actually affordable health care. The time for this wishy washy nonsense is over.
Again, I'm not saying Beto isn't going to crush Trump, but he could do so while promising to enact real change.
I will not think of Chris Matthews and you can't make me. :)
I know you think policy isn't necessary to I , but it's pretty damn important. Just saying he's charismatic is empty calories
Beto is pretty identical to Obama in policy.
The fact you think Beto/Obama is no different than Trump except in demeanor is downright insane.
This
Exactly. I'm tired of GOP diets. I want more progressive canditates socially and fiscally.
Nice, looking forward to years of drone strikes and bipartisanship. Worked out great.
It is not that policy doesn't matter. It is just being pure leftist doesn't matter. Being progressive in the vein of Obama is left enough for 90% of the Dem voting base. Which Beto more than passes.
The Dem primary base loves Obama. So good luck winning over a party which has near 100% support and approval for Obama with these views.
I one is saying pure policy, but you're going in the direction of personality cult
Obama was not a "diet" GOP. He ran a progressive white house and enacted progressive policies and appointed progressive judges.
Good look keeping the house and the senate after 2 years of fuck-all.
Uh.....you do realize that is EXACTLY what presidential races are right? Horse races about personalities. Have you missed the past 50 years of presidential elections?
Yes, treating it like a horse race when it isn't is the problem.
This is all fair game,until the primary is over. If Bernie wins I'll back him. If Beto wins I'll back him.
You must've felt really smart when you typed that. Someone's policies aren't a purity test. It's foundational.
Not at all. Beto is progressive in the vein of Obama which the base clearly is in line with. Candidates still have to be at least that liberal for the base. It is just your standard requirement of how left a candidate has to be is far out wack with where the base is, as shown as how different your views are on Obama compared to the base of the party.
If he was Joe Manchin but charismatic and young he wouldn't have a chance (and no Beto and Obama are much further left of Joe Manchin).
statistically speaking, fun fact:
trump beat clinton 52.23 to 43.24 in texas, a difference of 8.99 percentage points. nationwide, clinton beat trump 48.18 to 46.09, a difference of -2.09 percentage points. this means that, relative to the national results, texas was about 11 percentage points "more republican".
in 2018:
cruz beat beto 50.9 to 48.3, a difference of -2.6 percentage points. nationwide, democrats beat republicans in the house popular vote (the closest thing we have to a nationwide benchmark) 53.1 to 45.2, a difference of 7.9 percentage points. this means that, relative to the national results, texas was about 10.5 percentage points "more republican".
so I mean... did he really? if we applied national voting trends to statewide election results, you end up with... basically beto.
It is when it is at the expense of having the best chance of beating Trump. Putting up a boring cranky 80 year old Vermont socialist isn't a great strategy to win a general election.
I have little qualms with Bernie. It's the Bernie or Bust attack brigade that really do him damage.
Yep. I SHOULD be on their side. I am far from centrist. I want single payer! I supported Dean in 2004 over Kerry! AOC is my hero. But Bernie's cult of personality devotees who don't care about winning the general election and seem to have little concern over the damage Trump is inflicting and rather whine how Obama was not much different than Trump instead really make him have an unappealing toxic fanbase.
Where was this line of thinking when polls showed that Bernie would beat trump easier than Hillary. "Too soon", they said. These polls aren't representative this far from the election.
Yet you never mention what Beto is for. What does he support? I need more than good looks and a wink to support him
Also I'm 100% positive anyone reasonable with a D in front of their name will annihilate trump.
Go check his website. Pretty boiler plate standard Dem policies. He is against the wall, he is against the tax cut for the rich, he is for Medicare For All, he is for being in the Paris Climate Change agreement, he is for appointing liberal judges, etc, etc.
So anyone but Bernie, Warren, or Tulsi. Which I agree with. Beto, Biden, Klobuchar, Kamala, Gillibrand, and so one would all beat him.
Of the "top tier' candidates the only one that would lose to Trump is Bernie and Warren.
You keep saying this but you're in here banking on betos personality