NC House of Reps holds surprise vote while dems at 9/11 ceremony to override Gov Cooper's veto after promising Dems that no vote would take place

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,887
Are the Democrats never supposed to leave the chamber or something? I'm not sure what people wanted the Democrats to do?
No one attends unless the entire majority is there.

They need a quorum to pull this trick. The quorum is met with 61 attending members. Republicans had 55 members and Dems had 9, meeting the quorum. Then they called a snap vote and outvoted the Dems. I would accept either the Dems skipping the ceremony or the 9 Dems not being there at that time.

Just, don’t let them take advantage of procedural rules to give up unnecessary power, it can’t possibly be that hard.
 

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,398
Rochester, New York
No one attends unless the entire majority is there.

They need a quorum to pull this trick. The quorum is met with 61 attending members. Republicans had 55 members and Dems had 9, meeting the quorum. Then they called a snap vote and outvoted the Dems. I would accept either the Dems skipping the ceremony or the 9 Dems not being there at that time.

Just, don’t let them take advantage of procedural rules to give up unnecessary power, it can’t possibly be that hard.
They didn't know this vote was happening... it's easy to blame them in hindsight, but there wasn't any indication this vote was going to happen.
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,047
And I’m not even in the realm of victim blaming. The Democratic Party wasn’t the victim of a sexual assault or any other kind of crime. The real victims in this situation are the people of North Carolina, not the people who were elected to office to stop these kinds of GOP antics.
If we're saying that the term "victim blaming" is reserved for cases of sexual assault or crime, then fine, I'll retract the use thereof. That's not what I'm seeing in my search, though I freely, fully, and 100% know that it's primarily used for those cases.

Now then, you make a fair and good point that the people of NC are the ultimate victims. I stand by my claim that the Dems made a mistake in trusting their (shitheel) colleagues, but that criticizing them doesn't do a thing. I think they learned that lesson, but I don't and won't fault them for this. They had every single reason to think it was OK here, and they got backstabbed.

I hope it doesn't happen again, and I hope that this is the steel girder that breaks the camel's back. We can't trust them. Let's learn from this and not let this shit happen anymore.
 

JealousKenny

Member
Jul 17, 2018
1,079
They didn't know this vote was happening... it's easy to blame them in hindsight, but there wasn't any indication this vote was going to happen.
Oh God, these people (democrats) were elected to stop the type of foolishness they just fell for. The democrats gave the republicans a majority voting block and the power to hold a vote, what indication was there that they WOULDNT take advantage of that?
 

thepotatoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,948
Denver
No, I'm saying that by claiming the Dems enable the GOP, you're very close to victim blaming.
What are the democrat politicians victims of exactly? How have they been hurt?

I guess it’s never a good feeling to be lied to, and maybe they took some sort of hit on the imaginary scoreboard in the game of politics. But how does that compare to the people who are actually effected by the legislation they let slip through.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,887
They didn't know this vote was happening... it's easy to blame them in hindsight, but there wasn't any indication this vote was going to happen.
People should assume if anything can go wrong, it will go wrong. It’s been readily established over the last 2-3 years that Republican politicians are unscrupulous crooks who’ll use any trick they have to get any inch.

Who the hell depends on robbers to let them know when they’re planning a robbery so they would be around to stop the robbery? No one sane! If you’re depending on the Republicans to tell you ahead of time when they plan to rob you blind you’ve already lost. It should be the basic assumption now that they will always attempt something underhanded if given the opportunity.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,787
To people who insist people are wrong for being angry with the democrats and focusing on them: Look, I cannot change the GOP's determination to be the most evil fucks out there, but I actually have a chance at convincing democrats to be vigilant because (theoretically) we don't want the GOP to make dirty moves like this.
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,440
Wisconsin
The NC branch of the GOP may genuinely be the least trustworthy in the entire country, they pull this shit all the time

Why couldn't the Democrats just leave? What kind of shitty quorum is only counted at the beginning of the meeting and not immediately prior to any votes?
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,047
What are the democrat politicians victims of exactly? How have they been hurt?

I guess it’s never a good feeling to be lied to, and maybe they took some sort of hit on the imaginary scoreboard in the game of politics. But how does that compare to the people who are actually effected by the legislation they let slip through.
The two are separate, and I won't use the term "victim blaming" going forward. That said, the Dems are the victims of a lie that they're now going to have to fight back on. I'm not going to criticize them...this seems to me like a really obvious and open betrayal of what little trust there was, so it's gloves the fuck off, now. Dems have the numbers, and they'll just need to stay vigilant.

But this isn't about an imaginary scoreboard, to me. "Politics" have very real consequences, and in this case, it's much more likely that a shitty GOP budget could become reality. Yes, the citizens are going to be the ultimate victims here. No one is saying they won't, and I'm not sure why that's been highlighted multiple times TBH. But the Dems were the victims of a real wrong doing by the GOP in this case, the subject of this thread, and that's something I'll stand by.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,312
The security guards turned their back on the obvious bank robbers who proceeded to steal all the people’s money from the bank. Guys, please don’t blame the victims... the security guards. Who let the robbers march straight in to the unlocked vault and walk out with the cash. Poor guys, they even got a note from the bank robbers before hand that promised not to rob the bank. They didn’t know any better, and now people are saying mean things about them on line.
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,314
Miami, FL
The security guards turned their back on the obvious bank robbers who proceeded to steal all the people’s money from the bank. Guys, please don’t blame the victims... the security guards. Who let the robbers march straight in to the unlocked vault and walk out with the cash. Poor guys, they even got a note from the bank robbers before hand that promised not to rob the bank. They didn’t know any better, and now people are saying mean things about them on line.
this
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,887
Robbers: I promise not to break into your house between 8:30am and 9:00am while you’re out attending a ceremony

Dems: oh okay, they promised let’s go and get back in time to vote

Robbers: haha jk, we lied, actually going to steal the vote
 

phanphare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,457
ok the victim blaming stuff in here is pretty fucking gross, cmon yall

you can deflect criticism from the dems without diving head first into a pile of shit

edit: there's confusion here, I'm comparing the victim blaming claims to diving head first into a pile of shit. it's distasteful at best
 
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Lundren

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,084
And that robbery happened right in front of the police who don’t lift a finger to stop it, would it be wrong to be angry at the police?

The democrat politicians aren’t the victims here. Is any of the legislation they let slip through going to materially effect them as individuals? They’re the police who are supposed to stop republicans from robbing from people who need that funding.
I can agree with this.
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,314
Miami, FL
ok the victim blaming stuff in here is pretty fucking gross, cmon yall

you can deflect criticism from the dems without diving head first into a pile of shit
Dems aren't victims here. They are paid, in part, to recognize and react to situations like these in order to protect their consituents from tomfoolery and shenanigans that can lead to bad legislation passing.

Not knowing your entire party is not in attendance and failing to recognize quorum is in play is a colossal fuckup. A situation like this can result in multiple pieces of legislation passing that would otherwise have not. It's not the first time something like this has happened; It's just the most recent.
 

thepotatoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,948
Denver
The two are separate, and I won't use the term "victim blaming" going forward. That said, the Dems are the victims of a lie that they're now going to have to fight back on. I'm not going to criticize them...this seems to me like a really obvious and open betrayal of what little trust there was, so it's gloves the fuck off, now. Dems have the numbers, and they'll just need to stay vigilant.

But this isn't about an imaginary scoreboard, to me. "Politics" have very real consequences, and in this case, it's much more likely that a shitty GOP budget could become reality. Yes, the citizens are going to be the ultimate victims here. No one is saying they won't, and I'm not sure why that's been highlighted multiple times TBH. But the Dems were the victims of a real wrong doing by the GOP in this case, the subject of this thread, and that's something I'll stand by.
I’m highlighting the people effected by the policy because that should be the highlight of every issue in politics.

I feel like people are trying to shame us into focusing more about the republicans politicians acting unfair to democratic politicians and that really obscures the primary goal of getting government policy that helps people in need.
 

phanphare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,457
Dems aren't victims here. They are paid, in part, to recognize and react to situations like these in order to protect their consituents from tomfoolery and shenanigans that can lead to bad legislation passing.

Not knowing your entire party is not in attendance and failing to recognize quorum is in play is a colossal fuckup.
no yeah, that's what I'm saying. that calling this victim blaming is fucking gross and there are ways to deflect criticism from dems without diving head first into a pile of shit, which is what I'm comparing the victim blaming claims to.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,955
Anyone expecting any Republican to act in good faith, at this point, is a fucking moron. Always expect the worst and they will never disappoint you.
 

Robochimp

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,554
ok the victim blaming stuff in here is pretty fucking gross, cmon yall

you can deflect criticism from the dems without diving head first into a pile of shit
I would say stop using the term victims. The Dems are not victims in this.

The Dems here are elected officials who represent constituents in a role defined in very simple terms by a state constitution.

The Dems got played by literally two very clear sentences.


Edit: I see your clarification
 

Pilgrimzero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,704
I’ll never get how Dems can act like they are fine having coworkers who act like Repubs do. I would think I’d be openly hostile all the time. Never a kind word or smile. Nothing but contempt
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,047
The question is why was there any trust to begin with when we all know Republicans are trash?
They put it in writing, and it was for a 9/11 memorial. That's a low, even among Republicans. That said, they crossed that line (like lots of others, to be fair) now, and well...there goes any scrap of trust in the workplace now. Gloves off.

I’m highlighting the people effected by the policy because that should be the highlight of every issue in politics.

I feel like people are trying to shame us into focusing more about the republicans politicians acting unfair to democratic politicians and that really obscures the primary goal of getting government policy that helps people in need.
That's fair. I'd like to add that government only works when it's operated in good faith though. The GOP can't be trusted to respect a tragedy like 9/11. That's in the air and open now, and the Dems need to stonewall them in the Senate going forward, non stop.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,787
They put it in writing, and it was for a 9/11 memorial. That's a low, even among Republicans. That said, they crossed that line (like lots of others, to be fair) now, and well...there goes any scrap of trust in the workplace now. Gloves off.



That's fair. I'd like to add that government only works when it's operated in good faith though. The GOP can't be trusted to respect a tragedy like 9/11. That's in the air and open now, and the Dems need to stonewall them in the Senate going forward, non stop.
The problem is that this isn't the first, tenth, hundredth, or even thousandth time the NC GOP have sunk low. This has been happening for over a decade, and everytime the democrats just shake their head and go right back to trusting their word.
 
Oct 25, 2017
967
They definitely should not have thought it was OK, though, given that the GOP pulled some shady shit back in 2016 when they stripped some power from the incoming democratic governor.
Right. Some of the NC GOP's other greatest hits were even more recent:
2019 - NC GOP chair, major donor charged with bribery
2019 - N.C. Republicans lied to federal court about racial gerrymander: report
2018 - NC GOP Is Trying to Force Through a Bill Mandating Only Republicans Can Chair Election Boards During Elections

The Dems have no excuse being this gullible when the NC GOP is always pulling some sort of fuckery. People making excuses the NC Dems here are being ridiculous.
 

Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,263
There are zero electoral consequences to playing dirty pool.

Republican voters want to stifle the Democrat’s agenda at every opportunity. Democrats need to get on board with these tactics unless there’s some weird significant percentage of voters that aren’t in favor of stopping Republican policies no matter what?
There are sero consequences for Republicans.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
2,630
There needs to be an understanding that conservatives in general feel there's a clock to their ability to win elections long term, and will continue to lash out more and more to try to protect their currently held beliefs and policies for as long as possible. They're like a cornered animal here, and we need to be ready for absolutely anything.

But you shouldn't even need to know that to know that North Carolina Republicans specifically aren't to be trusted. They've used every trick in the book over the last decade, many much more dastardly than even this. I'd be disappointed to see democrats fall for this in any other state, but them falling for it in North Carolina leaves me completely dumbstruck.
yep. conservatism ALWAYS loses in the end because they are literally fighting against time.
 

whiskeystrike

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
239
hopefully this is the last of this kind of bullshit.

if it can go wrong, assume it will and plan accordingly.

nc gop are notoriously devilish, maybe the worst in the country when it comes to abusing everything they can to get what they want and dems keep trusting them.