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NC House of Reps holds surprise vote while dems at 9/11 ceremony to override Gov Cooper's veto after promising Dems that no vote would take place

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
7,664
Fuck. Me.

Someone get me off of this country now. I have a passport book. I'll take something like Canada, New Zealand, Japan, etc.

Nobody cares about the laws in this country anymore, Republicans or Democrats. They just proudly let Trump & his cohorts continue to fuck up everything.
This is disingenuous. The Dems got outwitted because they have principles and you're blaming them for it. That's exactly what the Republicans want you to do so you'll be less motivated to vote for them when they need it.

For those of you whining about us complaining that the Dems are being incompetent and deserves to be roasted for it, what would be achieved by merely sticking to only lobby complaints at the GOP? The GOP will do what they always do: use every trick in the book to maintain or gain power. No amount of yelling at them from the left or "sick" Twitter burns online will change that.
Because the GOP are the guilty party? It will, however, amplify apathy from the left leading up to the elections so more people will sit out or vote third party because they think the Democrats aren't worth voting for.

But we can influence how the Democrats deal with such a duplicitous party through advocacy from the left, primaries, and putting pressure on Dem politicians.
None of these will be done on a video game forum.

Sticking our heads in the sand and continue to use bad tactics and a foolhardy attitude of taking the GOP at their word results in situations like this. Shit like this will continue to happen until Dems change how they view and engage with the GOP. And that change won't happen if we just shut-up and not take Dems to task when they do foolhardy shit like this.

Why is this hard for some people to grasp?
Why are so you focused on the Democrats when the GOP did something horrible? Sure the Dems made a mistake, that's logical, except don't over react when they do this. It's not the end of the world.

Shit like this will continue to happen when the GOP get more votes than Democrats, and that Democrats are human - something I would have thought you'd want in elected officials.

Nobody is telling you to shut up, it's how you're taking them to task which people are disagreeing about.

The thing about fighting back against the GOP is you have to fight, not attacking the Dems because they're seen as an easier target.
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
8,345
But we're the ridiculous ones for pointing out the flaws in the party. All focus must be on the GOP, ignore the bad and dumb shit the Dems are doing please.
I think it's fair, but I also think it speaks way more to how low the GOP is willing to go than it does how bad Dems can be. I think the Dems need to learn to stop trying to kick the football but it's still the fault of the people pulling it away that we're in the state we're in.
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,582
I think it's fair, but I also think it speaks way more to how low the GOP is willing to go than it does how bad Dems can be. I think the Dems need to learn to stop trying to kick the football but it's still the fault of the people pulling it away that we're in the state we're in.
I’m not absolving the GOP for their actions and recognize that they are doing horrible things. What I want is for the democrats to realize who they are dealing with and act accordingly
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
I consider the GOP a face-eating leopard at this point. You don't defend your face against face eating leopards by asking them nicely or not nicely to stop eating your face. You cannot barter, parley, or compromise with a crazed animal doing the things it tends to do.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
947
Why are so you focused on the Democrats when the GOP did something horrible?
Because complaining how terrible the GOP is amounts to nothing? I mean, I know the GOP is terrible. Everyone here know that. Complaining about how shitty the GOP is from the left isn't going to make them change their behavior. My time and effort is far better spent pressuring Democrats to stop playing the role of Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. I wouldn't even be complaining if this was a one-off, but this has been a constant issue with Dems.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
7,664
Because complaining how terrible the GOP is amounts to nothing? I mean, I know the GOP is terrible. Everyone here know that. Complaining about how shitty the GOP is from the left isn't going to make them change their behavior. My time and effort is far better spent pressuring Democrats to stop playing the role of Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. I wouldn't even be complaining if this was a one-off, but this has been a constant issue with Dems.
You're not going to pressure Dems here, is my point. You lose nothing by castigated the GOP as they should be. Everyone here knows that but too many would rather go nuclear on a Democrat when a Republican does something bad. Complain anyway, but it should be in proportion, the Dems failed they didn't earn the majority of your anger on this.
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,582
You're not going to pressure Dems here, is my point. You lose nothing by castigated the GOP as they should be. Everyone here knows that but too many would rather go nuclear on a Democrat when a Republican does something bad. Complain anyway, but it should be in proportion, the Dems failed they didn't earn the majority of your anger on this.
In other words, you just want people to shut the fuck up, basically. You want them to complain in the specific way you like.

"Please don't complain about Democrats. It's useless. Instead, complain about the GOP which is equally as useless., but it makes me feel better"
 

RustyNails

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,256
Because complaining how terrible the GOP is amounts to nothing? I mean, I know the GOP is terrible. Everyone here know that. Complaining about how shitty the GOP is from the left isn't going to make them change their behavior. My time and effort is far better spent pressuring Democrats to stop playing the role of Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. I wouldn't even be complaining if this was a one-off, but this has been a constant issue with Dems.
But you're not pressuring anyone, let alone Democrats, by comparing them to Trump GOP deplorables. The only reason why North Carolina isn't a complete and total shitshow is because there is a decent number of Democrats there who are able to challenge the godforsaken gerrymandering NCGOP did.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
947
But you're not pressuring anyone, let alone Democrats, by comparing them to Trump GOP deplorables. The only reason why North Carolina isn't a complete and total shitshow is because there is a decent number of Democrats there who are able to challenge the godforsaken gerrymandering NCGOP did.
Where did I compare Democrats to Trump deplorables? My entire argument is that yelling at the GOP for being the shitheels they are is a fruitless endeavor and better time can be spent pressuring Dems to not be gullable fools regarding GOP duplicity. The meme about Demcorats being Charlie Brown didn't come out of nowhere. The GOP has proven time and again that they can't be trusted, and yet Democrats far too often find themselves in situations blind-sided by GOP duplicity. Situations that could have been avoided if they stopped thinking of the GOP as "my respectable colleagues from across the aisle." and see them as the cutthroat assholes that will screw you over at the drop of a hat and act accordingly.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
7,664
In other words, you just want people to shut the fuck up, basically. You want them to complain in the specific way you like.

"Please don't complain about Democrats. It's useless. Instead, complain about the GOP which is equally as useless., but it makes me feel better"
Reacting in proportion to what the Dems did is not telling anyone to shut up, it's being rational. Your position only makes sense if you think Democrats are just as bad as Republicans.

Strawman. The Dems deserve some criticism, going overboard just does the Republicans work for them to depress turnout. Which has been going on for a while now in political threads. Criticism has a certain meaning, it's not what you're doing.

This isn't about me "feeling better," no politician is going to swayed by what we say on a video game forum. And even if you were right the GOP will lose by being fought not running away from them. Something you're chiding the Democrats for doing in NC.
 
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Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,582
Reacting in proportion to what the Dems did is not telling anyone to shut up, it's being rational. Your position only makes sense if you think Democrats are just as bad as Republicans.

Strawman. The Dems deserve some criticism, going overboard just does the Republicans work for them to depress turnout. Which has been going on for a while now in politics threads. Criticism has a certain meaning, it's not what you're doing.

This isn't about me "feeling better," no politician is going to swayed by what we say on a video game forum. And even if you were right the GOP will lose by being fought not running away from them. Something you're chiding the Democrats for doing in NC.
If what we say on this videogame forum is useless, then we aren't - as you put it - "going overboard" therefore you just want us to shut up. I really doubt that our posts in this thread will depress turnout in any kind of meaningful way. But if it does, then the Democratic party has bigger problems than a few posts on a videogame forum. You know what, point out how people are going overboard. I think we will have different standards on what can be considered "overboard" but I'm interested to see what useless posts on a videogame forum you think are going overboard.

And you are telling people to shut up by demanding that people react in proportion to what the Dems did. You want more focus on the GOP in order to silence criticisms of Democrats. Seriously, just come out and say "shut the fuck up." It's better than this passive-ass "react uselessly in proportion" schtick.
 

Televator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,417
Individually, people might not be able to pressure democrats. But if enough individuals agitate enough, people might collectively have impact by protest and/or voting. These things are worth people voicing their grievances for.

Some folks here are so quick to stamp out seditious sentiment in defense of the status quo.
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,582
Individually, people might not be able to pressure democrats. But if enough individuals agitate enough, people might collectively have impact by protest and/or voting. These things are worth people voicing their grievances for.
This is also true. The first step to solving a problem is diagnosing the issue. We need more people to see the faults in the Democratic Party so that we can mend them. If all we do is remain silent, then absolutely nothing will change.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
Will blaming the Democrats do that?
Absolutely. The idea is to tell them "you guys are being fooled WATCH OUT". In the same way telling someone their new friend is an MLM recruiter trying to get them hooked into a pyramid scheme is meant to inoculate them against the MLM scheme.

It is a warning, and also a demand to do better.

It's too late for this vote but there will be future votes, so it's vital they're on guard ALL THE TIME.

I mean this was the tone of their response:
On the House floor, Pierce called the decision to vote “a bit much.”

“I know you gotta do what you gotta do. ... Mr. Speaker, that was not the way to do it,” Pierce said. “I wish you well and God bless you.”
Does this sound like Charlie Brown learned Lucy is going to take the football away next time as well? It doesn't to me.

"I know you gotta do what you gotta do Lucy, but can you not take the football away? God bless you."

lmfao
 

Almighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,282
Every single democrat at any level should understand that the Republicans can't be trusted. Those that think otherwise need to be replaced asap.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,803
Sydney
Anybody who gets tricked like this is fundamentally not cut out for politics lol

Just absolute malpractice on display here from the Dems
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,582
Let's not forget that it was the NC GOP who voted to strip power from the incoming Democratic governor back in 2016 and also tried to push a bill that would only put Republicans on the state election board. Time and time again, they have show that they are not to be trusted, but Democrats negligently keep on trusting them.
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,779
Absolutely. The idea is to tell them "you guys are being fooled WATCH OUT". In the same way telling someone their new friend is an MLM recruiter trying to get them hooked into a pyramid scheme is meant to inoculate them against the MLM scheme.

It is a warning, and also a demand to do better.

It's too late for this vote but there will be future votes, so it's vital they're on guard ALL THE TIME.

I mean this was the tone of their response:

Does this sound like Charlie Brown learned Lucy is going to take the football away next time as well? It doesn't to me.

"I know you gotta do what you gotta do Lucy, but can you not take the football away? God bless you."

lmfao
Pathetic. Just pathetic. How can those Democrats be so incapable of learning to leverage power.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
Nope. But it's not like they'll listen being assholes either.
Right, so why bother complaining? The wildfire doesn't care about how much you hate that it's burning up your shit, you just put it out.

My problem here, and I think the problem of a lot of people here who agree with me, is that there's a group of people's whose jobs it is to put out this wildfire, and when their backs were turned, because the wildfire sent them an email promising not to burn shit up while they were away, the wildfire went and burned shit up. There is literally no one else who can put out this wildfire so I'm basically forced to ask them to do better.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,189
Right, so why bother complaining? The wildfire doesn't care about how much you hate that it's burning up your shit, you just put it out.

My problem here, and I think the problem of a lot of people here who agree with me, is that there's a group of people's whose jobs it is to put out this wildfire, and when their backs were turned, because the wildfire sent them an email promising not to burn shit up while they were away, the wildfire went and burned shit up. There is literally no one else who can put out this wildfire so I'm basically forced to ask them to do better.
Well there is a way but it would get me banned to say how
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
947
Let's not forget that it was the NC GOP who voted to strip power from the incoming Democratic governor back in 2016 and also tried to push a bill that would only put Republicans on the state election board. Time and time again, they have show that they are not to be trusted, but Democrats negligently keep on trusting them.
Exactly. The NC GOP especially has proven themselves to be some of the worst members in an already rotten party. That Democrats STILL somehow trust the NC GOP to not screw them over the second they get the chance to is staggering political incompetence. I don't want an incompetent party, so my criticisms of Dems is my effort to get them it pull their heads of their asses and do better.
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,582
Exactly. The NC GOP especially has proven themselves to be some of the worst members in an already rotten party. That Democrats STILL somehow trust the NC GOP to not screw them over the second they get the chance to is staggering political incompetence. I don't want an incompetent party, so my criticisms of Dems is my effort to get them it pull their heads of their asses and do better.
Everyone in this thread agrees that the GOP are evil duplicitous assholes, but we want the Democrats in power to also see them that way. Personally, I can't just be quiet about it. It may not change much or anything, but being quiet about it is definitely not going to do anything either.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,179
For those of you whining about us complaining that the Dems are being incompetent and deserves to be roasted for it, what would be achieved by merely sticking to only lobby complaints at the GOP? The GOP will do what they always do: use every trick in the book to maintain or gain power. No amount of yelling at them from the left or "sick" Twitter burns online will change that. But we can influence how the Democrats deal with such a duplicitous party through advocacy from the left, primaries, and putting pressure on Dem politicians.

Sticking our heads in the sand and continue to use bad tactics and a foolhardy attitude of taking the GOP at their word results in situations like this. Shit like this will continue to happen until Dems change how they view and engage with the GOP. And that change won't happen if we just shut-up and not take Dems to task when they do foolhardy shit like this.

Why is this hard for some people to grasp?

Probably because its completely stupid and it just demonstrates you have had your back broken.

"The guilty party is so bad that even condemning them is a waste of my time. So since Im incapable of knowing what to do next, I'll just continue condemning, but do it to the people being decent instead".

That's the saddest shit Ive read all day. What's worse is is accomplishes, at best, further setbacks for the people actually trying to help by way of depressed enthusiasm when its needed (during voting years).

Just dumb. Sorry, I don't have another way to frame it.

If your reaction every time the republicans do some repugnant shit is:

"Fucking Democrats!"

Then you are a part of the problem. And honestly, that's a whole damn lot of you around here. Noone is buying your "I only do it because I care" shit, and even if you say that and mean it, its pointless because it doesn't accomplish anything positive. If that's the only reaction you can muster then you seriously need to do better.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,177
Everyone in this thread agrees that the GOP are evil duplicitous assholes, but we want the Democrats in power to also see them that way. Personally, I can't just be quiet about it. It may not change much or anything, but being quiet about it is definitely not going to do anything either.
But their kids go to the same schools and they all eat and wine and dine at the same establishments. Same religion and churches. Probably share a lot of donors too.

We're asking a lot. Some tribes would say, too much.

Endure until we can get to our already rigged and already sold election.
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,582
But their kids go to the same schools and they all eat and wine and dine at the same establishments. Same religion and churches. Probably share a lot of donors too.

We're asking a lot. Some tribes would say, too much.

Endure until we can get to our already rigged and already sold election.
I'm sorry for asking my democrat daddies too much.

But yeah, a lot of the Democrats still view the GOP as respectful colleagues who will definitely act with decorum and then "blindsided" by the GOP every single time.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
947
Probably because its completely stupid and it just demonstrates you have had your back broken.

"The guilty party is so bad that even condemning them is a waste of my time. So since Im incapable of knowing what to do next, I'll just continue condemning, but do it to the people being decent instead".

That's the saddest shit Ive read all day. What's worse is is accomplishes, at best, further setbacks for the people actually trying to help by way of depressed enthusiasm when its needed (during voting years).

Just dumb. Sorry, I don't have another way to frame it.

If your reaction every time the republicans do some repugnant shit is:

"Fucking Democrats!"

Then you are a part of the problem. And honestly, that's a whole damn lot of you around here. Noone is buying your "I only do it because I care" shit, and even if you say that and mean it, its pointless because it doesn't accomplish anything positive. If that's the only reaction you can muster then you seriously need to do better.
What is stupid about getting through the heads of Democrats that the GOP can't be trusted? The GOP being evil assholes is a given at this point. It's beating a dead horse and it doesn't change a thing. You think the GOP care that people from the left are calling them assholes for pulling such a move? Of course not. They probably revel in the thought of this move "triggering the libs." This not to say I'm absolving the GOP for their role in this. Of course I'm not. But this situation wouldn't have even happened if the the Democrats weren't so political incompetent and continue to pursue this "civility" and "respect/trust our colleagues across the aisle" shtick that gets them into these blindsided situations.

Us shutting up about bad Democratic tactics that has a solid history of failure and firing back on us is grossly irresponsible and runs counter to getting shit to a better place. Democrats have a history of getting themselves into these shitty situations, and it won't get better by staying quiet. And I don't believe for a second that pointing that out "depress the vote." What's far more likely to depress Democratic turnout is seeing the people Democratic voters worked hard to elect to protect them from gross GOP fuckery fail them so spectacularly due to gross political incompetence.
 
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Pooh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,265
The Hundred Acre Wood
I’m not absolving the GOP for their actions and recognize that they are doing horrible things. What I want is for the democrats to realize who they are dealing with and act accordingly
I swear people are being intentionally obtuse to not realize this


Does this sound like Charlie Brown learned Lucy is going to take the football away next time as well? It doesn't to me.

"I know you gotta do what you gotta do Lucy, but can you not take the football away? God bless you."

lmfao
Good fucking god, that quote... what the fuck

They do NOT understand the gravity of the situation for their constituents if that's their reaction
 

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
18,274
I shouldn't be surprised that people are defending this but here we are

More concerned with the appearance of civility than actual results
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
Y'all ever consider that it's these high level blunders by Dem politicians that "depress voters?" Maybe voters are tired of a Dem party that's not willing to get in the mud?



Where does this idea come from that the key to really energizing voters is to pretend Dems are beyond criticism? Kind of tired of being told "do better" as a spectator but if I dare to tell a sitting Dem to "do better", "you guys are going to DEPRESS THE VOTE/this is how we get 4 more years of TRUMP". Seems like only voters should be asked to do better but not politicians, apparently never the politicians.

How do you not see that every time a Dem politicians screws something up, it makes Dem voters more disillusioned with the Dems? The mental gymnastics here is incredible.
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,779
Probably because its completely stupid and it just demonstrates you have had your back broken.

"The guilty party is so bad that even condemning them is a waste of my time. So since Im incapable of knowing what to do next, I'll just continue condemning, but do it to the people being decent instead".

That's the saddest shit Ive read all day. What's worse is is accomplishes, at best, further setbacks for the people actually trying to help by way of depressed enthusiasm when its needed (during voting years).

Just dumb. Sorry, I don't have another way to frame it.

If your reaction every time the republicans do some repugnant shit is:

"Fucking Democrats!"

Then you are a part of the problem. And honestly, that's a whole damn lot of you around here. Noone is buying your "I only do it because I care" shit, and even if you say that and mean it, its pointless because it doesn't accomplish anything positive. If that's the only reaction you can muster then you seriously need to do better.
No, the reason people go fucking Democrats at all in this case is that basic political maneuvering and common sense would have prevented this. This was an easily foreseeable trap with easy preventative measures. It's not too much to ask for basic political competency from people who are being paid to represent their constituents and protect their interests.
 

Psychoward

Member
Nov 7, 2017
18,274
No, the reason people go fucking Democrats at all in this case is that basic political maneuvering and common sense would have prevented this. This was an easily foreseeable trap with easy preventative measures. It's not too much to ask for basic political competency from people who are being paid to represent their constituents and protect their interests.
Yep


A fucking higschool freshman with an interest in poli sci could have seen this coming.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
947
I fucking dread Biden getting the nomination for just this reason. He's the personification of this failed "working across the aisle and trusting the GOP" shit that got the NC Dems in this situation.
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,582
Seems like only voters should be asked to do better but not politicians, apparently never the politicians.
It's also seems like the same people who say that you can't complain if you don't vote are now saying to people that do vote that they can't complain either.

Honestly, it's easier to just tell us to shut up. There's no need to go in this roundabout way to do it.
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,779
It's also seems like the same people who say that you can't complain if you don't vote are now saying to people that do vote that they can't complain either.

Honestly, it's easier to just tell us to shut up. There's no need to go in this roundabout way to do it.
It's ridiculous. Those Democrats were failing at basic politicking and we can't even vent about it in a semi obscure gaming forum? Just what the hell.
 

samoyed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,974
These people have already put children in cages, children who have already died from incarceration. No amount of being angry at GOP online is going to convey the message that they're "bad people" more than ACTUAL CHILD KIDNAPPING AND MURDER. It's like Sandy Hook again. If literal CHILD MURDER is not enough to send the message that Something is Wrong, nothing, absolutely nothing will shift people's position even an inch on the GOP.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
947
Asking for basic political competency and common sense from the only option (Democrats) we got that sits between a decent representative democracy and total fascist takeover is asking too much apparently. How dare us for even bringing up such complaints! I'm apparently "part of the problem" for daring to even raise the point publicly.
 

fauxtrot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
200
It's also seems like the same people who say that you can't complain if you don't vote are now saying to people that do vote that they can't complain either.

Honestly, it's easier to just tell us to shut up. There's no need to go in this roundabout way to do it.
They should just be relieved people here are blaming incompetence and not complicity, since the latter honestly makes more sense at this point.
 

Beardlini

Member
Oct 28, 2017
71
So there is no way the override fails correct? They just need a majority in the senate which they have ya?
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,803
Sydney
Probably because its completely stupid and it just demonstrates you have had your back broken.

"The guilty party is so bad that even condemning them is a waste of my time. So since Im incapable of knowing what to do next, I'll just continue condemning, but do it to the people being decent instead".

That's the saddest shit Ive read all day. What's worse is is accomplishes, at best, further setbacks for the people actually trying to help by way of depressed enthusiasm when its needed (during voting years).

Just dumb. Sorry, I don't have another way to frame it.

If your reaction every time the republicans do some repugnant shit is:

"Fucking Democrats!"

Then you are a part of the problem. And honestly, that's a whole damn lot of you around here. Noone is buying your "I only do it because I care" shit, and even if you say that and mean it, its pointless because it doesn't accomplish anything positive. If that's the only reaction you can muster then you seriously need to do better.
Yikes how does an understanding of politics get like this, it's just totally the opposite of how it works
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,582
They should just be relieved people here are blaming incompetence and not complicity, since the latter honestly makes more sense at this point.
Yup. The Democrats keep getting tricked like this and not learning. Either they learn from their mistakes or something else is going on. And they haven't been doing much learning.

It's ridiculous. Those Democrats were failing at basic politicking and we can't even vent about it in a semi obscure gaming forum? Just what the hell.
Asking for basic political competency and common sense from the only option (Democrats) we got that sits between a decent representative democracy and total fascist takeover is asking too much apparently. How dare us for even bringing up such complaints! I'm apparently "part of the problem" for daring to even raise the point publicly.
They just want people to pull the lever for the democrats and not make any complaints about it.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,803
Sydney
Asking for basic political competency and common sense from the only option (Democrats) we got that sits between a decent representative democracy and total fascist takeover is asking too much apparently. How dare us for even bringing up such complaints! I'm apparently "part of the problem" for daring to even raise the point publicly.
It's like a confidence death spiral; if the Democrats fuck up they only insist more loudly they are the indispensable bulwark against the GOP, but that heightens the contradiction between that and their manifest incompetence in opposing the GOP in cases like this