NC House of Reps holds surprise vote while dems at 9/11 ceremony to override Gov Cooper's veto after promising Dems that no vote would take place

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,787
This thread is what happens when folks' entire political philosophy and memory are lifted from Reddit threads.

Go ahead, folks, bang some more shoes on the desk, I am sure that'll change things
So you don't want me to email the leader of the NC Democratic party to make sure they are more vigilant. You don't want me to do anything other than vote? Why? Why is the only power you want me to wield is one vote? Is your catipulation such a perfect dream that someone fighting for their life isn't worth it?

Oh wait, of course it isn't. You side with assholes who openly want me dead from my liver problems because I am more worth to you as a dead statistic than a living person who dares have opinions that aren't your own.
 

ibyea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,773
Am I living in bizarro world here? What's going on in this thread?

This stunt isn't going to work. The override can be put to a stop in the North Carolina Senate. The Democrats didn't get played; their first line of defense may have been duped, but their next line is now going to be impenetrable.

This isn't about Republicans stealing a victory by disregarding the rules, then. It's about highlighting the depravity and total lack of scruples that Republicans have.

I don't understand what there is to be mad at the Democrats about. The Republicans are still going to ultimately fail at this, so what are we blaming Democrats for?

The victim blaming over the past few pages is off the charts, jesus
Firstly using victim blaming rhetoric on politicians whose job it is to do politics and safeguard their constituents is hilarious.

Secondly, I and probably other people already know of the Senate being able to salvage things. That is not the point. This getting duped thing is a consistent pattern with Democratic politicians, and I am frustrated about it. You are not supposed to give these assholes an inch in the first place. Why risk it with the Senate when you had a 100% assurance in the first place that the veto wouldn't be overturned? And how can I be sure they won't make the same mistake in a different situation where they don't have a buffer? Do you understand how incompetence like this have the capacity to erode trust even if course correction is possible? I want them to stop losing from obvious traps. That is not asking for much.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,146
So you don't want me to email the leader of the NC Democratic party to make sure they are more vigilant. You don't want me to do anything other than vote? Why? Why is the only power you want me to wield is one vote? Is your catipulation such a perfect dream that someone fighting for their life isn't worth it?

Oh wait, of course it isn't. You side with assholes who openly want me dead from my liver problems because I am more worth to you as a dead statistic than a living person who dares have opinions that aren't your own.
So what is this, the transitive property of online rhetoric? If I don't buy into your flaccid online whinging, that means I'm trying to kill you?

You go ahead and run with that story, bro

What is your expected outcome here? Do you expect North Carolina Democrats to make 40 people sleep in the chambers and go to the bathroom in shifts?
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,787
So what is this, the transitive property of online rhetoric? If I don't buy into your flaccid online whinging, that means I'm trying to kill you?

You go ahead and run with that story, bro

What is your expected outcome here? Do you expect North Carolina Democrats to make 40 people sleep in the chambers and go to the bathroom in shifts?
I expect the democrats to realize the republicans are not to be trusted at their word and to plan accordingly. Literally all the dems had to do was make sure 5 or less democrats showed up to work that day. I'm not asking for shit like what you want to imply.

And yeah, Ido get to run that story when you guys directly stated that me dying from liver disease was "unfortunate" but then kept saying that a long term solution was best and I would just have to die in the name of the moderates not doing shit.
 

ThLunarian

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,128
Firstly using victim blaming rhetoric on politicians whose job it is to do politics and safeguard their constituents is hilarious.

Secondly, I and probably other people already know of the Senate being able to salvage things. That is not the point. This getting duped thing is a consistent pattern with Democratic politicians, and I am frustrated about it. You are not supposed to give these assholes an inch in the first place. Why risk it with the Senate when you had a 100% assurance in the first place that the veto wouldn't be overturned? And how can I be sure they won't make the same mistake in a different situation where they don't have a buffer? Do you understand how incompetence like this have the capacity to erode trust even if course correction is possible? I want them to stop losing from obvious traps. That is not asking for much.
Is it really a constant pattern though? What are some other instances where Democrats were literally tricked like this? Because every other encounter I can think of where Republicans got away with something, the Democrats had no power to do anything about it.

And the buffer is more important than you're acknowledging. Its existence automatically makes this not as big of a deal.

In fact all this really is is a PR disaster for the Republicans. And it would be much more devastating if people like you didn't use it as an opportunity to bash Democrats.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,787
Is it really a constant pattern though? What are some other instances where Democrats were literally tricked like this? Because every other encounter I can think of where Republicans got away with something, the Democrats had no power to do anything about it.

And the buffer is more important than you're acknowledging. Its existence automatically makes this not as big of a deal.

In fact all this really is is a PR disaster for the Republicans. And it would be much more devastating if people like you didn't use it as an opportunity to bash Democrats.
In terms of the NC GOP? Yeah, actually, it is a pattern. And what PR disaster? The republicans are openly loving the blatant cheating they do. Trying to guilt them into having a heart won't work with most republicans and certainly won't work of NC GOP members, some of the most vilest of the lot. The only way to stop them is to make sure they can never pull a dirty trick, like not taking the GOP at their word since it's not worth the paper its printed on.
 

ThLunarian

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,128
In terms of the NC GOP? Yeah, actually, it is a pattern. And what PR disaster? The republicans are openly loving the blatant cheating they do. Trying to guilt them into having a heart won't work with most republicans and certainly won't work of NC GOP members, some of the most vilest of the lot. The only way to stop them is to make sure they can never pull a dirty trick, like not taking the GOP at their word since it's not worth the paper its printed on.
What are some of these tricks they've pulled? They had a supermajority for like 8 years so they didn't have to bother with tricks like this, they just won with brute force. I'm interested to hear about other subterfuge along these lines.

Believe it or not, there are actually people who identify as Republicans and would also be turned off by tricks like this. It also looks really bad to the 'undecided' folks who actually decide elections. Not to mention motivating the Democrat base to get these cheaters the F out of there.

PR matters, especially in a swing state like NC.
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,487
Remember, they stripped power from the incoming democratic governor back in 2016. In 2018, they tried to push a policy that only republicans can serve in election boards
 

ThLunarian

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,128
Remember, they stripped power from the incoming democratic governor back in 2016. In 2018, they tried to push a policy that only republicans can serve in election boards
Sure, and they were able to do that because they had an overwhelming majority. Not because they were pulling parlor tricks that Democrats were falling for. The Democrats were literally powerless to do anything about it.

You're trying to contextualize these previous incidents as though the Democrats are sad sacks who keep falling for skullduggery, but that is not what's been happening. This is, I believe, the first time the Republicans have stooped to nonsense trickery like this, and it's not even going to work.

Democrats are not always destined to lose. Your characterization of them as such is harmful.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,146
And yeah, Ido get to run that story when you guys directly stated that me dying from liver disease was "unfortunate" but then kept saying that a long term solution was best and I would just have to die in the name of the moderates not doing shit.
Unpack this.

What was "unfortunate"?

Who is, "you guys"--specifically--in your estimation?
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,487
Sure, and they were able to do that because they had an overwhelming majority. Not because they were pulling parlor tricks that Democrats were falling for. The Democrats were literally powerless to do anything about it.

You're trying to contextualize these previous incidents as though the Democrats are sad sacks who keep falling for skullduggery, but that is not what's been happening. This is, I believe, the first time the Republicans have stooped to nonsense trickery like this, and it's not even going to work.

Democrats are not always destined to lose. Your characterization of them as such is harmful.
Those are examples to show that the NC GOP are not to be trusted, not to show that the democrats keep falling for tricks. We have seen the GOP use every trick in the book to get what they want. I want the Dems to be more on guard when it comes to the GOP and not to trust them.
 

ThLunarian

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,128
Those are examples to show that the NC GOP are not to be trusted, not to show that the democrats keep falling for tricks. We have seen the GOP use every trick in the book to get what they want. I want the Dems to be more on guard when it comes to the GOP and not to trust them.
I mean, okay, sure. I believe they will be after this.

But before yesterday, if a guy in the office who you work with tells you there won't be a vote today, you'd have no reason to disbelieve them. I can understand falling for that one time.

They shouldn't fall for it anymore.

But one time? Yeah, I'll give that to the Democrats.

Spreading nonsense about them getting duped constantly and never wising up is just incorrect.
 

TheAbsolution

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,136
Atlanta, GA
Also
I mean, okay, sure. I believe they will be after this.

But before yesterday, if a guy in the office who you work with tells you there won't be a vote today, you'd have no reason to disbelieve them. I can understand falling for that one time.

They shouldn't fall for it anymore.

But one time? Yeah, I'll give that to the Democrats.

Spreading nonsense about them getting duped constantly and never wising up is just incorrect.
also, it’s not like the GOP was literally stonewalling the Dems on passing a negotiated budget. They’ve been working together and passing portions of the budget for months now. So there wasn’t a real indication that they’d pull this stunt.
 

AstronaughtE

Member
Nov 26, 2017
1,548
I mean, okay, sure. I believe they will be after this.

But before yesterday, if a guy in the office who you work with tells you there won't be a vote today, you'd have no reason to disbelieve them. I can understand falling for that one time.

They shouldn't fall for it anymore.

But one time? Yeah, I'll give that to the Democrats.

Spreading nonsense about them getting duped constantly and never wising up is just incorrect.
Looks like Democrats just found something else never to forget on 9-11.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
7,627
For the same reason you spend all of your time tone policing instead of activism.

People don't care.

When you figure out how to make people care call me and I'll give it a shot as well.

Here's a snapshot of your thread history:


Number of threads about comic books and pop culture bullshit: 8
Number of disingenuous threads about the DSA: 1
Number of threads about Chuck Schumer: 1
Number of threads condemning the GOP for anything: 0
Posting on the internet isn't activism, Samoyd. Framing my argument as "tone policing" to fit your narrative since you know you can't refute my argument with either facts or a sufficient defence.

People care plenty about what I have to say, they've made that abundantly clear. That's why you're trying to silence my voice as we speak, it's difficult to maintain a narrative when someone like me, and others, identify flaws since you'd rather spin wheels when contemplate how to strengthen your own movement or accomplish the change you want by acknowledging the system itself isn't going to bow down to your whims because you're asking nicely. Demoralisation is entrenched in ERA from the left and rather than help guiding people you're leaving them rudderless and without the tools they need to change the system.

No, you won't. If you truly cared you've had answered those questions honestly rather than hot takes to get a rise out of me as though we were discussing a Marvel film not lives at stake.

Using my threads as "proof" for anything substantial is bizarre. You had to know that proves nothing and did it anyway.

Then why aren't you inciting people to be more angry at the GOP? As you said, they're putting kids in cages so why is giving them their due on that count on a message board too much to ask for? What you're getting wrong is that this is about sending messages we passed that gulf long ago. This requires action, but what action do you suggest? You're not advocating anything here for what people to do.
These are very important questions, and how you responded makes me question wether you're a leftist, period. It's ok to admit you don't answers except what I was left with was apathy and hostility that dodged every single word in it. Do you care? It looks like you don't.

Intriguing how you and Helio switched the good cop/bad cop routine.

point out where I said this. Otherwise, this is a straw man
Yup. The Democrats keep getting tricked like this and not learning. Either they learn from their mistakes or something else is going on. And they haven't been doing much learning.
I don't need to built a straw man when I have this post. Just retract it.

Me saying that the 9 democrats who provided a quorum to a notoriously duplicitous party like the NC GOP is overboard? I’m not mad that the Dems were at the 9/11 ceremony. I’m not mad that they missed a vote.
Yes.

lol another straw man
[1]If what we say on this videogame forum is useless, then we aren't - as you put it - "going overboard" therefore you just want us to shut up. [2] I really doubt that our posts in this thread will depress turnout in any kind of meaningful way. But if it does, then the Democratic party has bigger problems than a few posts on a videogame forum. [3]You know what, point out how people are going overboard. I think we will have different standards on what can be considered "overboard" but I'm interested to see what useless posts on a videogame forum you think are going overboard.
Let's dissect this, shall we?

[1] Your stance suggests you don't think posting on a video game forum is useless in affecting politicians, since the belief that posting here is useless is my argument. If you're agreeing with me you're just arguing for the sake of it. Insinuating that any disagreement with you or others who agree with you as "shutting up" is incredibly disingenuous and you know it. It's what I'd expect from a Fox News talking head to keep themselves in the right with their audience while giving the impression that they're being persecuted when all they're being responded to is that there are more options in a discussion than not saying anything and framing your opponents as evil that cannot be bargained with as though they are the Terminator. Against Liberal Democrats.

[2] Which is it?

[3] Declaring the NC Dems as being so corrupt they're secretly taking a dive is going over board. You haven't provided a smidgen of proof, we're supposed to take your word for it. When pressed on this you refuse to explain further how you got to this conclusion, as well.

No straw man here.

You say it’s all useless so it doesn’t matter if I respond proportionately or not: either way it’s useless. I and many others have said it would be easier to convince the Democrats to change than the GOP, but you’re ignoring that.
If it's useless it wouldn't matter who criticise so why bother going after the side which didn't do you wrong? This is a justification to go after Democrats, your allies. Which is not only wrong, it's what the GOP want so we're divided and distracted. As well as being hypocritical with this situation.

It’s the same thing with you. Rather than get mad or even criticize the ones who can stop this, you admonish the ones who complain. Every single time the Dems get criticized by us lowly folk, you come in to wag your finger at us instead of the Dems. When children protested Diane Feinstein for her response to the climate change crisis, you chose to tut-tut them and that they should protest in the right way echoing the white moderates from the Civil Rights Era. “I agree with your stance, but I don’t agree with your methods.” When the Dems voted to fund concentration camps, you wagged your finger at those who got mad at the Dems for doing so and tried to redirect their anger to the GOP despite Dems having control of the House. And now this.All you want to do is to silence dissent against the Democrats for whatever reason.
I've criticised both parties repeatedly on ERA, what I get in trouble for is simply acknowledging how entrenched the status quo is and thinking the system can be reformed rather than replaced. What you're doing is not criticising it's deliberately weakening the Democrats from within. Undermining them, making them appear as unsalvageable to the left so they'll turn to whatever group you want to replace them with. Every one has the right to disagree about politics on a video game forum. You don't speak for every oppressed group in America - they're not a hive mind. Were that true African Americans wouldn't be supporting Biden in the numbers they do, and the numerous groups are split among the majority of the candidates running. Some agree with you, some agree with me, and many disagree with both of us. Disagreeing with how some kids protested Feinstein is not the same as disagreeing with MLK Jr. Omitting the context behind the Border Bill options so it's a black and white option when it's anything but due to how the bills were made and the politics involved within the party itself to get that vote, including how if the Democrats did what you want it would speed up death in the camps significantly since people need food to survive and the guards will take it out further on them. Why wouldn't you be directing the majority of your anger at the GOP over that? They created every step of this mess, the Democrats didn't. Another omission, controlling the House gives them some power they don't control as much of the government as the GOP does. Everything the House does is limited by the Senate, since bills retire both to pass.

Dissent, now that's a good word for your complaints. Not "disagreement" or "criticism."

I'm not silencing anybody, my reasoning is that I want a good discussion between mature adults, and that we get the right results through government action.

In other words, Democrats say that they should be elected to stop the GOP, but when the Democrats fail to stop the GOP even though it's within their power, it completely disproves their premise and destroys the illusion that the democrats are protectors.

It's why peeps are coming in here to tell us to focus solely on the GOP. They want to maintain that illusion.
Disassociating the Democrats as "protectors" of society, tainting their brand so they'll be seen as the enemy. Divide and conquer, a tale as old as time. Comparing anyone who stands up for the Democrats as collaborators who are using "illusions" as though they are tricksters not to be trusted so those who disagree appear like noble knights who know the right answers and whose allegiance to the group they belong to should be open to recruitment. I'm impressed at the work that went into this, looks like psyops.
 
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fauxtrot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
193
Posting on the internet isn't activism, Samoyd. Framing my argument as "tone policing" to fit your narrative since you know you can't refute my argument with either facts or a sufficient defence.

People care plenty about what I have to say, they've made that abundantly clear. That's why you're trying to silence my voice as we speak, it's difficult to maintain a narrative when someone like me, and others, identify flaws since you'd rather spin wheels when contemplate how to strengthen your own movement or accomplish the change you want by acknowledging the system itself isn't going to bow down to your whims because you're asking nicely. Demoralisation is entrenched in ERA from the left and rather than help guiding people you're leaving them rudderless and without the tools they need to change the system.

No, you won't. If you truly cared you've had answered those questions honestly rather than hot takes to get a rise out of me as though we were discussing a Marvel film not lives at stake.

Using my threads as "proof" for anything substantial is bizarre. You had to know that proves nothing and did it anyway.



These are very important questions, and how you responded makes me question wether you're a leftist, period. It's ok to admit you don't answers except what I was left with was apathy and hostility that dodged every single word in it. Do you care? It looks like you don't.

Intriguing how you and Helio switched the good cop/bad cop routine.





I don't need to built a straw man when I have this post. Just retract it.



Yes.





Let's dissect this, shall we?

[1] Your stance suggests you don't think posting on a video game forum is useless in affecting politicians, since the belief that posting here is useless is my argument. If you're agreeing with me you're just arguing for the sake of it. Insinuating that any disagreement with you or others who agree with you as "shutting up" is incredibly disingenuous and you know it. It's what I'd expect from a Fox News talking head to keep themselves in the right with their audience while giving the impression that they're being persecuted when all they're being responded to is that there are more options in a discussion than not saying anything and framing your opponents as evil that cannot be bargained with as though they are the Terminator. Against Liberal Democrats.

[2] Which is it?

[3] Declaring the NC Dems as being so corrupt they're secretly taking a dive is going over board. You haven't provided a smidgen of proof, we're supposed to take your word for it. When pressed on this you refuse to explain further how you got to this conclusion, as well.

No straw man here.



If it's useless it wouldn't matter who criticise so why bother going after the side which didn't do you wrong? This is a justification to go after Democrats, your allies. Which is not only wrong, it's what the GOP want so we're divided and distracted. As well as being hypocritical with this situation.



I've criticised both parties repeatedly on ERA, what I get in trouble for is simply acknowledging how entrenched the status quo is and thinking the system can be reformed rather than replaced. What you're doing is not criticising it's deliberately weakening the Democrats from within. Undermining them, making them appear as unsalvageable to the left so they'll turn to whatever group you want to replace them with. Every one has the right to disagree about politics on a video game forum. You don't speak for every oppressed group in America - they're not a hive mind. Were that true African Americans wouldn't be supporting Biden in the numbers they do, and the numerous groups are split among the majority of the candidates running. Some agree with you, some agree with me, and many disagree with both of us. Disagreeing with how some kids protested Feinstein is not the same as disagreeing with MLK Jr. Omitting the context behind the Border Bill options so it's a black and white option when it's anything but due to how the bills were made and the politics involved within the party itself to get that vote, including how if the Democrats did what you want it would speed up death in the camps significantly since people need food to survive and the guards will take it out further on them. Why would you be directing the majority of your anger at the GOP over that? They created every step of this mess, the Democrats didn't. Another omission, controlling the House gives them some power they don't control as much of the government as the GOP does. Everything the House does is limited by the Senate, since bills retire both to pass.

Dissent, now that's a good word for your complaints. Not "disagreement" or "criticism."

I'm not silencing anybody, my reasoning is that I want a good discussion between mature adults, and that we get the right results through government action.



Disassociating the Democrats as "protectors" of society, tainting their brand so they'll be seen as the enemy. Divide and conquer, a tale as old as time. Comparing anyone who stands up for the Democrats as collaborators who are using "illusions" as though they are tricksters not to be trusted so those who disagree appear like noble knights who know the right answers and whose allegiance to the group they belong to should be open to recruitment. I'm impressed at the work that went into this, looks like psyops.
In case you haven't noticed, you spent 5 days crafting that response. The forum has moved on, but another set of NC Dems have completely fucked up since then if you want to find a thread to defend then in.
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,487
The Dems don’t have to be mustache twirling corrupt to still be structurally incompetent. The NC senate Dems just voted for maps that still favors the GOP because the Dems’ seats are safe.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Member
Dec 26, 2018
7,627
The Dems don’t have to be mustache twirling corrupt to still be structurally incompetent. The NC senate Dems just voted for maps that still favors the GOP because the Dems’ seats are safe.
So you're abandoning your charge that the NC Dems took a dive on purpose, good. It's concerning you won't admit you were wrong about that, however. Being able to admit you made a mistake is a strength, not a weakness.