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Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,593
You know, after hearing so much about it and knowing the vague outline of what happens over the years through cultural osmosis I thought End of Eva would be much more nihilistic than it ended up being. Aside from the surreal nightmarish imagery I'd say it's still a pretty optimistic ending.

Also I like how there's a scene entirely dedicated to Anno telling otaku to get a fucking life and stop using his work as a means of escaping reality.
 

Blade24070

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,989
I've been reading about the series and its issues and apparently the series changed course even across production. Are there any reading materials or interviews that delve into what the series was originally supposed to end up as or the OG ending?
 

Kensation

Enlightened
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,837

shergal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
89
There's this:
Hideako Anno said:
The year: 2015. A world where, fifteen years before, over half the human population perished. A world that has been miraculously revived: its economy, the production, circulation, consumption of material goods, so that even the shelves of convenience stores are filled. A world where the people have gotten used to the ressurrection-yet still feel the end of the world is destined to come. A world where the number of children, the future leaders of the world, is few. A world where Japan saw the original Tokyo destroyed, discarded and forgotten, and built a new capital in Nagano Prefecture. They constructed a new capital, Tokyo-2, then left it to be a decoy-then constructed another new capital, Tokyo-3, and tried to make it safe from attack. A world where some completely unknown enemy called the "Angels" comes to ravage the cities.
This is roughly the world-view for Neon Genesis Evangelion. This is a world-view drenched in a vision of pessimism. A world-view where the story starts only after any traces of optimism have been removed.
And in that world, a 14-year-old boy shrinks from human contact. And he tries to live in a closed world where his behavior dooms him, and he has abandoned the attempt to understand himself. A cowardly young man who feels that his father has abandoned him, and so he has convinced himself that he is a completely unnecessary person, so much so that he cannot even commit suicide.
And there is a 29-year-old woman who lives life so lightly as to barely allow the possibility of a human touch. She protects herself by having surface level relationships, and running away.
Both are extremely afraid of being hurt. Both are unsuitable-lacking the positive attitude-for what people call heroes of an adventure. But in any case, they are the heroes of this story.
They say, "To live is to change." I started this production with the wish that once the production complete, the world, and the heroes would change. That was my "true" desire. I tried to include everything of myself in Neon Genesis Evangelion-myself, a broken man who could do nothing for four years. A man who ran away for four years, one who was simply not dead. Then one thought. "You can't run away," came to me, and I restarted this production. It is a production where my only thought was to burn my feelings into film. I know my behavior was thoughtless, troublesome, and arrogant. But I tried. I don't know what the result will be. That is because within me, the story is not yet finished. I don't know what will happen to Shinji, Misato or Rei. I don't know where life will take them. Because I don't know where life is taking the staff of the production. I feel that I am being irresponsible. But... But it's only natural that we should synchronize ourselves with the world within the production. I've taken on a risk: "It's just an imitation." And for now I can only write this explanation. But perhaps our "original" lies somewhere within there.
July 17, 1995,
In the studio, a cloudy, rainy day.
PS.
By the way, Shinji's name came from a friend of mine. Misato's name came from the hero of a manga. The name Ritsuko came from a friend of mine in middle school. I borrowed from everywhere. Even names that have no bearing on anything actually came from the countless rules that govern these things. It might be fun if someone with free time could research them.

It somewhat shows that there wasn't really an "originally planned story" that they just diverged from. The whole process was constantly shifting from the start.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
exactly

those two guys and then that other guy later in the series.

they cared about shinji from the very beginning kinda

contrary to Rei who ignores him and is obssesed with his father, and Asuka who sees him as competition, maybe Misato cared about him but don come saying she didnt fucked up him by giving mixed signals at first.
Rei is a clone manufactured to to synchronise with Eva; she sees that as her only purpose in life. Asuka is dealing with the suicide of her mother. Misato has no idea how to be a guardian or mother figure, and so just tries her best to be his friend.
 

Arkeband

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,663
I watched Death (True)^2 or whatever the fuck the other night. They spliced in a lot of things I never saw before, even though some big moments were left mostly untouched.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
I tried to import the Platinum thin pack when it first came out. It got lost in the mail. And i'm still pissed about it.
Nope. It completely misses the point of the show. At its best, it's a redundant tl;dw retelling of the show aimed at a younger, dumber audience, At its worst, by the time it reaches The End of Evangelion, it reads like a fanfic written by someone who hated the original so much that they'd spend 20 years telling the world how much better Evangelion would be if Shinji weren't such a pussy.
It's kinda wild to see something like that produced by a person who was involved in the show's creation since the very beginning. In that sense, it's an interesting oddity, but it's definitely not a worthwhile story.
Ohh dear. I wonder how Anno felt about it, i'm sure he was "disappointed" to say the least 😆
gendo doesnt interact enough with him to actually matter.

i know he fucked up shinji, but right now in the series the girls are his principal source of confusion and unhappiness
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Having watched NGE and EoE for the first time this weekend, it really seemed the animation at the end of EoE was basically, "Sorry about all those notebook sketches. Now check this out"
Ohhh. It's definitely a "check this out" but not as an apology.
Almost as if he's a neglectful and abusive father who only pays attention to Shinji when he needs him, making him feel miserable because of it.
Stop making sense. Damn it!
We need a spoiler thread
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What is Death? Why is it optional?
That's a bit of heavy existential question to ask in here. I know eva deals with existentialism, but...... Oh you mean the show.😜

Because originally it was released in the cinema with re:birth (which was the first half of EOE) And is a recap of the series (up to 24) with some new animation.
Good shit.

I'll post some more for people that like this aspect of EVA.

Gunbuster (directed by Hideaki Anno, also by Gainax)
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Metal Skin Panic MADOX-01 (produced by Anno)
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Patlabor 2 (Mamoru Oshiii directed this one, the
preceding OVA and movie are wonderful, but this movie is probably a great one for those that like GITS)
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Patlabor 2 is on of my favourite films of all time.
Surely 3.33 will be much more understated and cohesive!
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Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,593
Wow, yeah, I dunno if it's because the Netflix subs paint the movie in an entirely different light but after rewatching Dan Olson's analysis I feel like he was watching an entirely different movie.

Anno definitely had become more jaded through his experience with otaku after the original series' ending, but I feel like it's undercutting the optimistic aspects of the movie basically screaming in your face throughout to say that everything was just Anno trolling his audience. There was a scene explicitly dedicated to calling out otaku, but it's done in the most jarring way possible as if to act as an aside to the core content of the film.

Maybe I'll think about it some more later and change my mind, but right now the Folding Ideas video feels a lot like ignoring the actual content of the film and the more positive aspects of the bittersweet message it conveys in favor of cherry picking to suit a more interesting meta-narrative about Anno shitting on loser otakus.
 
Mar 27, 2019
369
So I have a question. Did they re-record a new English dub for the Netflix release? The VAs seem the same to me although I haven't watched the series in a couple years. There are some odd phrases that hit the ear wrong like saying third children instead of third child. Am I missing something?
 
OP
OP
munchie64

munchie64

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,541
Wow, yeah, I dunno if it's because the Netflix subs paint the movie in an entirely different light but after rewatching Dan Olson's analysis I feel like he was watching an entirely different movie.

Anno definitely had become more jaded through his experience with otaku after the original series' ending, but I feel like it's undercutting the optimistic aspects of the movie basically screaming in your face throughout to say that everything was just Anno trolling his audience. There was a scene explicitly dedicated to calling out otaku, but it's done in the most jarring way possible as if to act as an aside to the core content of the film.

Maybe I'll think about it some more later and change my mind, but right now the Folding Ideas video feels a lot like ignoring the actual content of the film and the more positive aspects of the bittersweet message it conveys in favor of cherry picking to suit a more interesting meta-narrative about Anno shitting on loser otakus.
I love Dan, and believe his interpretation is a legit one, but I've always kinda felt this way about those particular videos. With the Netflix translation changing a lot of the dialogue he based his video on, I disagree even more now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053

No, and this will probably end in a giant thread derail. He's fourteen years old, and not notably misogynistic until EoE when

Anno spends a half an hour just totally dumping on him, repeatedly, piling on more and more trauma and pokes than anyone would be able to sustain.

He's sure not sexually well-adjusted, but I don't think any fourteen year old boys are.

Even debating him as an incel demonstrates how the word has totally lost all meaning by people throwing it around thoughtlessly. It is a modern-day hate group, and you can't just assign the label to fictional teenagers with fucked up personal relationships.
 

Flipyap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,489
Wow, yeah, I dunno if it's because the Netflix subs paint the movie in an entirely different light but after rewatching Dan Olson's analysis I feel like he was watching an entirely different movie.

Anno definitely had become more jaded through his experience with otaku after the original series' ending, but I feel like it's undercutting the optimistic aspects of the movie basically screaming in your face throughout to say that everything was just Anno trolling his audience. There was a scene explicitly dedicated to calling out otaku, but it's done in the most jarring way possible as if to act as an aside to the core content of the film.

Maybe I'll think about it some more later and change my mind, but right now the Folding Ideas video feels a lot like ignoring the actual content of the film and the more positive aspects of the bittersweet message it conveys in favor of cherry picking to suit a more interesting meta-narrative about Anno shitting on loser otakus.
His "interpretation" is based on complete misunderstanding of the series caused in part by the poor quality of those old translations (Manga's release of The End of Evangelion was infamously sloppy). Netflix subs mostly align with the translations that have been available for years in the form of fansubs and other fan resources.
The whole reading of Shinji as an attack on otaku (as a phenomenon external to Anno) is also misguided because he was and will always be Anno's self-insert character. It's not trolling, it's primarily introspection crossing into cinematic self-flagellation.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Just wanted to say if you enjoyed NGE at all then you should also check out Devilman Crybaby on Netflix. Its an adaptation of the manga that heavily inspired NGE as well as series like Berserk. Needless to say... it goes some places...
 

Kensation

Enlightened
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,837
Just wanted to say if you enjoyed NGE at all then you should also check out Devilman Crybaby on Netflix. Its an adaptation of the manga that heavily inspired NGE as well as series like Berserk. Needless to say... it goes some places...
Also check out Serial Experiments Lain, as well as anything from Satoshi Kon.
 

Rad Bandolar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,036
SoCal
I came across this Crunchyroll video in my YouTube recs, and I'm now an expert on the Evangelion multiverse:

 

Drain You

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,985
Connecticut
Really annoyed the subtitles don't match the dub. Was hoping since Netflix just did it or whatever that they would. That aside this is absolutely one of my favorite of all time.
 

spx54

Member
Mar 21, 2019
3,273
now I see why people were raging mad after those last 2 episodes. that shit is bonkers

but yeah, hopefully EoE is a satisfying conclusion
 

Kapryov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,129
Australia
I've been trying to avoid this topic until I finish... but I'm taking too long getting through this series. Binge watching isn't exactly possible with my current roster/responsibilities.
I'm up to episode 7 or 8 at the moment, the episode I watched last night was the "Rei II" one .

I don't know how I feel about going along this ride with Shinji as a main character, he's more frustrating to watch than anything else.

Also why isn't Netflix translating any of the text on screen? It looked like it was describing teams within NERV at one point but it was all in Japanese.
 

TheMathyFolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,010
Oh boy. I can relate a lot to Shinji's introspection. The Eva's are lifeforms of some sort I feel, they aren't just exoskeletons. I'm not really sure what other thoughts I have about this episode. I think I'm glad I didn't see this as a teenager, I was depressed for sure, and I don't know if this would have helped or made things worse. You can't rely on one moment of happiness for the rest of your life.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
so I just finished 25 and 26

what the fuck
Congratulations.
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Oh boy. I can relate a lot to Shinji's introspection. The Eva's are lifeforms of some sort I feel, they aren't just exoskeletons. I'm not really sure what other thoughts I have about this episode. I think I'm glad I didn't see this as a teenager, I was depressed for sure, and I don't know if this would have helped or made things worse. You can't rely on one moment of happiness for the rest of your life.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on 25&26.
 

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
17,525
So this is only my second time watching the ending of the TV show-

Jesus christ Shinji's conclusion at the end is more powerful to me now than it was five years ago. "I am worth living here". Honestly when i first watched this I was kinda down on Shinji and the show as a whole but after I left High School I spiraled into a really bad depression that lead to some really bad places. Only about half a year ago did I start climbing back out. I can fully understand the feeling of worthlessness and just wanting to be, well, wanted. I get that this is a series that people pick apart to death, but to me this will always be a series about finding true meaning in your own individuality and realizing that there is worth in you living simply because you're "you" if that makes any sense. Finding beauty in what makes the hedgehog dilemma so troublesome.

In the end it's a story to me about how no matter how much shit you go through there's still worth in you because no one else can be you.
 

RumbleHumble

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,128
So this is only my second time watching the ending of the TV show-

Jesus christ Shinji's conclusion at the end is more powerful to me now than it was five years ago. "I am worth living here". Honestly when i first watched this I was kinda down on Shinji and the show as a whole but after I left High School I spiraled into a really bad depression that lead to some really bad places. Only about half a year ago did I start climbing back out. I can fully understand the feeling of worthlessness and just wanting to be, well, wanted. I get that this is a series that people pick apart to death, but to me this will always be a series about finding true meaning in your own individuality and realizing that there is worth in you living simply because you're "you" if that makes any sense. Finding beauty in what makes the hedgehog dilemma so troublesome.

In the end it's a story to me about how no matter how much shit you go through there's still worth in you because no one else can be you.
Pretty much my takeaway too. Glad you found something so powerful this time around.