• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Is 'Choose Your Own Adventure' worthy or Trademark protection?

  • It's perfectly trademarkable.

    Votes: 32 19.5%
  • it's very generic.

    Votes: 132 80.5%

  • Total voters
    164
  • Poll closed .

faceless

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,198
Yup. In addition to the affirmative defenses laid out in its motion for dismissal, Netflix is now asking that Chooseco's trademark be cancelled entirely. This is going to have a ripple effect across all of the other actions Chooseco has taken as set forth above. Those indie game threats? Those go away if Chooseco doesn't have a trademark to wield. Future lucrative deals such as that struck with Amazon? Nope, those are gone, too, potentially. By picking this wholly unnecessary fight, Chooseco has potentially given Netflix the ability to yank away the one poker chip it had left to play.

www.techdirt.com

Netflix Seeks Cancellation Of "Choose Your Own Adventure" Trademark

Gov Uscourts Vtd 29835 32 0 (PDF) Gov Uscourts Vtd 29835 32 0 (Text)

if you recall, Chooseco got the ball rolling when they sued Netflix after an interactive episode of Black Mirror dropped.

WIll Chooseco get a stupid prize?
 

Goldenroad

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,475
They're suing people who use the phrase "choose your own adventure".

I'm not saying they're in the right here, or that they should be, but they're not suing anyone that uses the phrase, they are suing company's who are making money off the phrase "Choose Your Own Adventure".
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,220
This is actually a fairly interesting case - at least the way I see it.

Choose Your Own Adventure was originally a brand name for a new kind of product (technically a segment of the publishing industry, but still novel in that sense) that was subsequently trademarked. Netflix's argument - and it's one that makes a lot of sense - is that the new tier of product CYOA was applied to became so widespread and ubiquitous that the trademark was rendered essentially worthless. That's going to be hard to argue against based on, well, reality.

But the wrinkle is that those styles of books only really became generic because the trademark holder arguably didn't enforce it strongly enough back then. Presumably because there was no point going after every single small press that decided to do books with a choice component after the original CYOA series became so popular.

So really this is a situation of Chooseco's own making in two ways. Obviously they brought this on themselves by suing Netflix, but also by allowing the idea to proliferate so widely in its heyday.

To be clear, though, it should be apparent to anyone that Bandersnatch was purposefully playing on the nostalgia for the CYOA brand.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
I'm not saying they're in the right here, or that they should be, but they're not suing anyone that uses the phrase, they are suing company's who are making money off the phrase "Choose Your Own Adventure".
www.techdirt.com

Chooseco Chooses An Adventure In Bullying Indie Game Devs Over Trademark

Earlier this year, after Netflix released an iteration of its Black Mirror series entitled Bandersnatch, which allowed the viewer to choose their own story path through the narrative, the company b…
 

Bigwombat

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
3,416
nph_book-full.png


Dookie Hoosier better watch out!

Funny book jokes aside
 

Goldenroad

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,475
www.techdirt.com

Chooseco Chooses An Adventure In Bullying Indie Game Devs Over Trademark

Earlier this year, after Netflix released an iteration of its Black Mirror series entitled Bandersnatch, which allowed the viewer to choose their own story path through the narrative, the company b…

I understand, but these are games that could potentially profit off the phrase, regardless of how much or how little. Not protecting your trademarks is the quickest way to lose them. My point is, they're not going to sue Giant Bomb or IGN if the call The Walking Dead a choose your own adventure game. It's not just using the phrase that could spark potential litigation. But if Telltale were to refer to their game as a choose your own adventure, that would be a different story.
 

Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,006
I don't see how the concept can be trademarkable, but the name+design should be like anything else.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
"kill Jester"

Okay, let us begin our quest...

"KILL JESTER!"




- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
 

RiOrius

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,073
Nobody would use that phrase to describe Bandersnatch if the very well-known book series hadn't preceded it. Bandersnatch isn't an adventure. At best you could say CYOA has become generic a la Xerox and Kleenex.

I don't think Netflix needs to use that phrase themselves. Every blog post or review can and will use it, but Netflix's own marketing materials can and should just go with "interactive fiction" or "branching narrative" or what have you. Like how The Surge doesn't say "plays like Dark Souls" on the box.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,132
For me there is very little chance Netflix will win revocation of the trademark since Chooseco is still actively trading with that strapline.
 

NookSports

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,208
I don't think Netflix needs to use that phrase themselves. Every blog post or review can and will use it, but Netflix's own marketing materials can and should just go with "interactive fiction" or "branching narrative" or what have you. Like how The Surge doesn't say "plays like Dark Souls" on the box.
Both those terms are terrible from a marketing perspective, I can see why Netflix is petitioning for this.
 

kirby_fox

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,733
Midwest USA
This is actually a fairly interesting case - at least the way I see it.

Choose Your Own Adventure was originally a brand name for a new kind of product (technically a segment of the publishing industry, but still novel in that sense) that was subsequently trademarked. Netflix's argument - and it's one that makes a lot of sense - is that the new tier of product CYOA was applied to became so widespread and ubiquitous that the trademark was rendered essentially worthless. That's going to be hard to argue against based on, well, reality.

But the wrinkle is that those styles of books only really became generic because the trademark holder arguably didn't enforce it strongly enough back then. Presumably because there was no point going after every single small press that decided to do books with a choice component after the original CYOA series became so popular.

So really this is a situation of Chooseco's own making in two ways. Obviously they brought this on themselves by suing Netflix, but also by allowing the idea to proliferate so widely in its heyday.

To be clear, though, it should be apparent to anyone that Bandersnatch was purposefully playing on the nostalgia for the CYOA brand.

I'm curious if Netflix has a bunch of proof that the company hasn't gone after recent publications or uses. If they can show they were only recently going after stuff it might work in their favor.
 

RiOrius

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,073
Both those terms are terrible from a marketing perspective, I can see why Netflix is petitioning for this.
Then Netflix's marketing guys can come up with something better. But the only reason CYOA works is because some other guys put in a lot of effort to make that a known thing, and it seems kind of lame for Netflix to swoop in and capitalize off of it.

If a brand-new studio like Riot Games can make MOBA a thing, surely an entertainment giant like Netflix can figure out some branding that works. Especially since, again, every review and blog post and mention of the show is free to use CYOA in the meantime.
 

Xagarath

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,140
North-East England
This is actually a fairly interesting case - at least the way I see it.

Choose Your Own Adventure was originally a brand name for a new kind of product (technically a segment of the publishing industry, but still novel in that sense) that was subsequently trademarked. Netflix's argument - and it's one that makes a lot of sense - is that the new tier of product CYOA was applied to became so widespread and ubiquitous that the trademark was rendered essentially worthless. That's going to be hard to argue against based on, well, reality.

But the wrinkle is that those styles of books only really became generic because the trademark holder arguably didn't enforce it strongly enough back then. Presumably because there was no point going after every single small press that decided to do books with a choice component after the original CYOA series became so popular.

So really this is a situation of Chooseco's own making in two ways. Obviously they brought this on themselves by suing Netflix, but also by allowing the idea to proliferate so widely in its heyday.

To be clear, though, it should be apparent to anyone that Bandersnatch was purposefully playing on the nostalgia for the CYOA brand.
Except they didn't even invent the genre. Gamebooks have been around since the 1960s (State of Emergency in 1969 being one early example), while the first CYOA books didn't come out until the mid-70s.
 

Jay Shadow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,604
At best you could say CYOA has become generic a la Xerox and Kleenex.
That's exactly what Netflix is claiming here. That CYOA has become the accepted generic term referring to this type of format. Escalator, Dry Ice, Flip Phone, Asprin, Video Tape, Teleprompter, and Trampoline were all examples of things that used to be trademarked brands but were lost when they became the overwhelmingly accepted term. You're essentially so dominant you end up getting penalized.

Velro ran an online campaign few years ago to tell the public not to use the term Velcro for everything cause they can lose their trademark over it.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
That's exactly what Netflix is claiming here. That CYOA has become the accepted generic term referring to this type of format. Escalator, Dry Ice, Flip Phone, Asprin, Video Tape, Teleprompter, and Trampoline were all examples of things that used to be trademarked brands but were lost when they became the overwhelmingly accepted term. You're essentially so dominant you end up getting penalized.

Velro ran an online campaign few years ago to tell the public not to use the term Velcro for everything cause they can lose their trademark over it.

Nintendo had made flyers in 1990 over the same thing.
ijqzgsqfsslrfylg1v6j.jpg