You're absolutely correct! ...but lots of the posters here don't think there's anything wrong with that character's statements themselves.
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Netflix tweets out problematic clip from “Big Mouth” [Co-creator responds,check threadmark]
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You're absolutely correct! ...but lots of the posters here don't think there's anything wrong with that character's statements themselves.
Even if that's what it originally meant, that just means its meaning evolved as people's understanding of gender did.
ITT people who clearly have never seen Big Mouth before. You are absolutely tripping if you think any of the people involved in creating this aren't 100% on the side of the LGBT community.
I mean, there are trans people that are not just a man or just a woman .... like bigender, agender and other non binaries. So a non taco non burrito is needed in the metaphor
While this is true, I think part of the concern is that the educating figure doesn't seem to describe bisexual accurately either. This clip seems very well intentioned, but that seems to be the concern here.
You have the right to feel however you feel about this clip but the context of the show is important.
That's the benefit of a forum, people can potentially learn something or see something through another lens via discussion. I wouldn't have gone full throttle with that thread title though, going to pull in people already on the defensive.
I thought pansexual meant we're pretty open to any identity.
Bisexual always felt a bit limited.
Bisexual always felt a bit limited.
And its a few minute clip from a longer episode. They cover a huge amount of touchy subjects that no other show even dares acknowledge, let alone dedicate entire season length storylines around.
Y'all, again, even if there's context that improves this: Netflix posted this clip without any of it. If the show later shows that what the character is saying is wrong (which, there's a whole lot of stuff she's wrong about), that doesn't really matter cause Netflix is using this shitty wrong explanation of bi and trans people to advertise the show.
Yeah, I admire their goals. Hopefully they'll be able to address this better in a future episode.
I don't know, I don't really watch the show AT ALL and my only impression of the clip is that the pansexual character looks smart and explains to the class what it means?
...?
Even if we assume that the show creaters are trying to express their total understanding of pansexuality through that young girl I still think the OP title is a bit of a stretch.
I'm no expert by any means but unwittingly missing some nuance is a far cry from being incredibly -phobic.
I'm no expert by any means but unwittingly missing some nuance is a far cry from being incredibly -phobic.
Something doesn't add up...
1. It's a comedy cartoon
2. It's a comedy cartoon that is extremely sex positive. You would hope that people would take five seconds out of their life to research something rather than immediately jumping to being outraged, but apparently that takes too much work.
3. As someone who is bi myself, I've always understood bisexual to mean attracted to men and women. I get that may not be how other people define themselves, which is fine, but most people probably believe that definition to be true. I don't think that's transphobic.
4. "-phobic" is getting thrown around way too much.
To some Bi folks, this isn't just nuance. This is a major thing. There are a great many Bi folks that are told that the word they use to identify their sexuality doesn't include trans people, and doesn't include non-binary people, and it's wrong.
Honest question: was the definition of bisexuality always this one?
Thus illustrating the problem. People who don't know this will be mislead by this scene, being used in isolation to advertise the show - a show that seems to get so much positive and right! ...and then inexplicably goes and says this.
And again, maybe that character/the audience is corrected later, and I'm going to watch the 3rd season and will find out for myself. But in isolation, this clip is actually hurtful to me.
Very much this. You'll get a lot further if you use perceived/debatable slights as an opportunity to educate rather than jump immediately to it being genuinely harmful. Since we have to announce our preferences lest we're viewed negative: as someone who went from bi->pan ...the clip doesn't affect , rub me wrong at all in the slightest. I love those show, it's hilarious. It is trying to do right by all colors in the sexuality spectrum. Even when it arguably fails there's never anything close to anything malicious or "phobic" in it
None of this is a defense of what I just posted. "It's a comedy cartoon" and "it's extremely sex positive" wouldn't be a defense of these shitty misconceptions being spouted either. But the trans misconception here isn't just that it's saying bi people can't be attracted to trans people: it's saying that trans men aren't men and trans women aren't women.
And while I can understand thinking it's a stretch to call this biphobic or transphobic: these are still really bad misconceptions that this clip is pushing.
I think what we're learning here is that bisexual doesn't have a concrete definition, even amongst those who identify as bi. Some view it as being attracted to both men and women, and others view it as being attracted to both their own gender as well as all others. Since there is no arbiter of what these terms mean, we're not going to reach a consensus that will satisfy everyone.
DP - something going wrong with my quote here. Will fix momentarily.
Don't like this thread, don't post in it - see how it works if we apply that logic?
Don't like this thread, don't post in it - see how it works if we apply that logic?
Thanks, never heard about it. The name is misleading I suppose.
Well then a much better word would be ignorant. Or misinformed. Something along those lines.
Not trying to police language but I don't think it's in the left's interest to lump in well meaning people/shows with -phobic shitheads.
By that logic, things can't be racist if they're said due to ignorance either.
Like, I agree, the show is amazing in so many ways. But very problematic statements, especially when they're used as an advertisement, need to be called out.
pan is the new bi. if you're just attracted to things you're attracted to, regardless of gender, pan is the new wave.
Functionally the difference is if you like warm colors or cool colors for your pride flag.
Pansexuality is essentially describing the same concept. While bisexuality is older and trying to reclaim a medicalized term, pansexuality is newer and trying to immediately read as inclusive.
pan/bisexuality gets so little representation that i don't even care if this is "unacceptable". take what you can get. I'm also not going to watch it out of context from the show.
It varies from person to person, but for me, I don't identify as pansexual, because to me, while I am attracted to all genders, I tend to be attracted to more women, and my attraction to different genders feels differently. I don't feel comfortable identifying as pansexual, when gender has such a big relation to my attraction.
No, by that logic I don't lump in white people who aren't as versed with the black experience but try to do the right thing and slip up with the alt-right.
You don't have to lump them in together, but you'd still agree with calling out racist behavior due to ignorance right? I'm not saying to bring out pitchforks for the show. There's just a lot of people in this thread who see no problems with the scene at all, and I want them to understand the problematic points. And I'd simply like the show to do better. Again, it's been super positive in so many ways about sex and sexuality. I'd like the show to continue, and keep doing amazing stuff. But I'd like it to get my sexuality correct.
I disliked the clip because I thought it wasn't funny. But I didn't take this as biphobic. It seemed like it was actually trying to explain the difference in a comedic fashion.
User Banned (Permanent): Dismissing Concerns Around LGBT+ Representation; Inflammatory Accusations; Account in Junior Phase
Give me a break lmao, this forum gets worse and worse.. There's nothing wrong with this clip. Outrage culture is getting absolutely ridiculous