Too late. The game industry has no problem taking advantage of a constant flow of "bodies" to use Epic Games' terminology.
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NetherRealm (Mortal Kombat 11, Injustice) also has a culture of crunch
- Thread starter XaviConcept
- Start date
So all the studios we know have a culture of crunch.
Bioware
Epic
Rockstar
CD Projekt Red
Nether realm
Who am i missing?
Bioware
Epic
Rockstar
CD Projekt Red
Nether realm
Who am i missing?
To add to what others have said, sometimes contract workers would have to be trained in the tools, pipeline etc... which would require taking experienced people away from their work for extended periods of time. Ultimately that alone can make it not worthwhile to hire more workers.
Naughty Dog has a history of being notorious for crunch
You're talking about Geoff Keighley, right? Maybe I'm mis-remembering but doesn't he mainly do fluff pieces? I don't think he'd want to do interviews where he pressures top people about working conditions.
It's a step on the road to improving everything, of course they're not going to magically change things overnight but they give the powerless some extra assistance and can help liase with the "top" and try to encourage change.
it would probably be easier to just list the studios that don't crunch
Damn near every developer in the industry. Or at least it's starting to feel that way
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These companies are not going to change willingly. All the threads and twitter posts in the world won't shame them into it. Not when profits are the priority and these games keep selling by the truck load. This is not a cultural change that has to happen. This kind of thing is only changed by law and regulation.
9 years in the industry now.
7 studios.
Only one crunched.
Outside of that one studio, I can count the days that I was asked to stay past normal hours on one hand. It's not guaranteed when your production is on point.
Ah, no. I was talking about Jeff Gerstmann at Giant Bomb, Ed Boon drops by on their E3 live show each year. I agree with you about Keighley though lol.
Dang. And I really liked Ed Boon. I mean he seems like a nice guy, but honestly this was the culture he helped create and maintain. He very much carries the majority of the blame and should be held accountable. Do the right thing Ed: apologize, change the culture, and change your policies.
Devs need unions, the ability to collectively bargain or just go on strike. That's the only way their employers will budge. Going on Twitter and telling us (consumers) does nothing. Awareness only does so much. Of course no one wants to get fired or compromise their livelihood. Yes, it goes without saying that people should be paid what they're worth and work reasonable hours. But it's abundantly clear that some of these companies don't operate within reason and don't give a fuck. So more extreme measures might have to be taken.
I know people say unions will help, but as someone who doesn't know the exact mechanics of unions - what would they change, and more to the point...how? I get that it becomes a question of collective bargaining, but is there nothing in place where it still becomes "hey, union head, look, we're releasing in 3 months; collectively, these things need to happen before then"? Like, are unions involved in financial projections or release dates? What is the union mechanism to dampen the blow from missing key performance metrics?
It's almost not surprising at this point, however, its still something that needs to be brought up and talked about.
Check out the thread, it goes in depth, another example
Confirmed by Beck Hallstedt who was a contractor for Injustice
And of course Glassdoor reviews tried to tell ya
"Contract workers are disposable, horribly paid, and overcrunched"
Current Contractor - Anonymous Contractor
I have been working at NetherRealm as a contractor
Pros
Cons
- The only AAA studio in Chicago (aka they have a vicegrip on new grads and hobbyists trying to go pro)
- $12/hour for associate artists
Associate employees strung along from contract to contract for years with no benefits
Too much crunch(Not going to discuss the other thread that was locked since it has unconfirmed information)
- Advice to Management
- Treat associate employees like human beings
I haven't bought MK11.
And it looks like I won't until NRS changes crunch culture.
I mean, I'm not defending anything here, but isn't this all companies? I've worked my ass off many times, but I've never been forced to. I've been compensated and I've always has a pretty good time if I got to work with people I liked and projects I was proud of. I've worked 36 hours straight because I wanted to, not because anybody told me to. Could things have been planned better to prevent that situation? Probably, yeah? I don't blame anyone, it's jus the nature of the IT/software/gaming/entertainment business at times.
Obviously, if this was forced/expected of me, it would probably be different.
You're describing unionization and you're right. People suffering in these situations need someone to fight their corner. Absolutely.
Once a company has to compensate for personal time, expand benefits, provide space and extra overtime pay, they change their culture real fast. Especially if workers organize a walkout and the money bleeds.
OP
OP
Theres a lot to unpack but knowing that NR is a lead heavy studio (the people who've been there for a while have all the power while new employees get in there, get burned out, leave and are replaced by the next crop) its tweets like these that really make me mad
Everybody in every industry has to work extra hard sometimes, but you know leadership is shit when your direct boss gets to leave early and then say how pleasant it is to do so
Everybody in every industry has to work extra hard sometimes, but you know leadership is shit when your direct boss gets to leave early and then say how pleasant it is to do so
Well if you've ever wondered how they've managed to put out insanely high budget fighting games every other year like clockwork, here's your answer.
This is a slippery slope honestly. This is how companies let it go as first "this is what I want" then as more and more are on board they start passive-aggressively forcing others to do it too "all the old guys do it, why can't you new/temp guys?"
What if no one had to do it, things were managed correctly and we could put a line under our work and just enjoy our lives outside of work too? Dismissing it as "just the way it is" isn't helping it. The compensation in your case is nice but maybe there should be someone telling you to just go home instead of putting in those insane hours.
As someone that crunched on God of War (and some other things) boycotting the game would be salt in the wound. I worked real hard, please play it! But be conscious of crunch and working conditions and be as vocal with your disdain of it as microtransactions. We got in here, terrible conditions and all to make entertainment for people, at least give us that satisfaction.
My two cents, could totally see other devs supporting a boycott, especially if they were very exploited.
My two cents, could totally see other devs supporting a boycott, especially if they were very exploited.
I mean there's "ok so sorry but we'll have to give it 110% for a few days" and then there's a lot of stories from game studios who are in almost constant crunch.
Thought I feel like one of the big reasons the game industry gets it so bad is the perceived privileged of making games.
As a fan of MK, this is very disapointing to read. As a simple graphic designer doing some whatever jobs, I already crunch some hours now and then and it's something I hate to do, I can only imagine how horrible it must be considering the scale of NRS projects.
Hopefully these voices are heard and actual change happens soon.
Hopefully these voices are heard and actual change happens soon.
I don't get paid much but you're telling me I get paid more than someone making assets for a Mortal Kombat game? wtf?
I think a lot of entertainment industries and companies probably take advantage of this. Kids grow up dreaming of working in music or movies or games and it becomes easy to exploit that.
But places like Epic, apparently, have good benefits and good comp. Still lots of crunch. Space is a one time upfront cost per head, and...so, wait, are these devs paid hourly? Contractors, sure, but that's different from a developer union. Are places like Netherrealm otherwise cheating people out of pay? None of that sounds like anything that would actively get rid of crunch. Walkouts are a thing, but that brings me back to my other point - what is the mechanism for dampening the blow when KPIs are missed?
That explains their quick turnaround on projects. I really appreciated how quickly NRS put out projects but it's unsurprising to learn that it was the result of crunch.
Unionization is really the only thing that can be done to stop this. But I have a question, would it be possible to have a quicker turn-around on games if there was less emphasis on pushing boundaries with graphics and superfluous online systems like lootboxes or do video games just take a long ass time to develop? I assume it's the latter, and my guess is that the amount of software we saw pushed out during the 90s-early 2000s was also due to (a potentially worse) crunch culture. It's just crazy to me that we've gone from studios like Rockstar putting out almost a dozen games a generation to one-maybe two. But I don't want to be like, "waah lazy rockstar, give me bully 2 and la noire 2 and agent now" because clearly that's not doable without driving devs well past the brink of exhaustion.
Unionization is really the only thing that can be done to stop this. But I have a question, would it be possible to have a quicker turn-around on games if there was less emphasis on pushing boundaries with graphics and superfluous online systems like lootboxes or do video games just take a long ass time to develop? I assume it's the latter, and my guess is that the amount of software we saw pushed out during the 90s-early 2000s was also due to (a potentially worse) crunch culture. It's just crazy to me that we've gone from studios like Rockstar putting out almost a dozen games a generation to one-maybe two. But I don't want to be like, "waah lazy rockstar, give me bully 2 and la noire 2 and agent now" because clearly that's not doable without driving devs well past the brink of exhaustion.
What else would you suggest for evening out the balance in power dynamics between employers and workers?
Agree on both counts. Not saying I have the answer, but sometimes you're really invested in something and you want to succeed. My point, if I have one, is that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Crunch culture is obviously bad, but periods of intense work to get something done can also be very rewarding.
I don't have an answer to this problem at all, just to be clear. Just offering my perspective and my own experience.
Wonder who doesn't do crunch. Didn't Insomniac come out and say they didn't do it?
A union would say that if you work overtime you're paid double. Or if you're salary that you get set premiums for extended crunch time. That if you work a certain number of days in a row your get an unquestionable amount off no matter what. That if your employee work crunch you have to pay for stress leave/counselling/etc.
unfortunately thats true, only an union or the government to change this
When has the "top" ever willingly changed? We needed laws to step in and tell companies to stop working children to death in factories.
If you're referring to the MTX thing, that's the Era bubble at work. None of that will matter to 95% of players. The game will be tweaked and patched and they'll play it and love it.
Unionizing would have to help. I would gather that in turn we consumers would need to pay more. Let's face it though, inflation hasn't hit the gaming industry like it has for other products. At least we would also know our $ is going to support a better working environment.
Also, can someone explain to me why these reports tend to surface around the release of AAA games?
Also, can someone explain to me why these reports tend to surface around the release of AAA games?
My employer used to have some pretty brutal crunching. One project I was on nearly drove me to a legitimate nervous breakdown because of the pressure. But that particular release, which was a mess on multiple fronts, was also a wake-up call to the higher-ups at the time that Crunch Is Bad and should be avoided for the health of the employees and for the company. Company-wide, we have not crunched to that degree ever since, as we instituted a lot of new development practices and policies that in general reduced the urgency that would increase the demand for crunch. I've personally not been on a project involving crunch since that hellmouth of a project (though I did need nearly a month off to recover from the stress of that crunch).
