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Xenosaga

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,976
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I am liking the strong attack combos from Punisher mode.
Hopefully that ground pound finisher is gone.
 
Oct 30, 2017
330
Japan
Hard difficulty at release is a must. I'm afraid Nomura is gonna hold it back like KH3.

I want these battles to be on a knife edge in which I have to use the games systems to it's fullest to beat a group of enemies or a boss.
 

Xenosaga

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,976
Hard difficulty at release is a must. I'm afraid Nomura is gonna hold it back like KH3.

I want these battles to be on a knife edge in which I have to use the games systems to it's fullest to beat a group of enemies or a boss.
Or it could be "beat the game to unlock hard difficulty" like some of the portable KH games.

I am hoping there is at least hard on launch day-1 without and restrictions, and maybe even higher difficulty later on.

But honestly I feel like I would start on normal difficulty. The good thing is that it seems you can change the difficulty on the fly unlike Kingdom Hearts.
 

Vault

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,594
Square games have had broken difficultly this gen. KH3 and DQ11 were ridiculously easy on normal.

if you make the game so easy that i don't need to use the games mechanics at all on normal you fucked up.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
I still hate how long Hardedge is now :/
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I wonder how many more weapons we'll get per character. I think it's going to be around 4 or 5 each.
 

Pavemaniac

Member
Sep 10, 2019
194
Won't be surprising if all of his weapons are redesigned to be a similar size, in order to accomodate his animation set.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
And I, on the other hand, welcome the change since I loathe the look of the original Hardedge.
How can you hate this beauty
latest

If it were sborter it would effect Clouds attack range.
I know, but still.

There's also cutscenes, as weapons change there too and Cloud uses his sword quite a lot it seems (to the point where he hits the upper door frame with it when he starts hallucinating in the last trailer).
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,557
I'll be blunt, I think we're gonna get shitty zones and an actual full explorable world isn't going to happen. No airships, no meaningful Gold Chocobo exploration, just a straight line of bland FFXII zones.

I don't see how we won't get vehicles. I don't need an open world but just zones and when they let you control airships and what not they just need to do it like the Dragon Quest games do.

Split the exploration maps this way:
1) Big world Zones
2) Dungeons and towns can be separate spaces that you don't need to design to scale with the big world zones
3) Have a simplified world map that you go to when you are in a vehicle. You can still fly around and find hidden areas.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
Is there any merchandise planned for the game?
Afaik, so far we've mostly got the Play Arts Kai figures:
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I expect figures for Sephiroth, Rufus, Red XIII and maybe a few more characters (that new SOLDIER guy even maybe).

Beyond this, they showed this during TGS, but I think they're sadly not for sale and are just for some contest (the low-poly ones, but I might be wrong and it be both or none of them):
 

Natasha Kerensky

Alt Account
Banned
Jul 18, 2019
262
Praha, CZ
Afaik, so far we've mostly got the Play Arts Kai figures:
SDCC-2019-Square-FF7-Remake-017.jpg

d876078a296f3943bc9ac98c38dbbbf8.jpg

EEOd3XvUUAAxFXl.jpg

EEOd3XsUwAAzgfW


I expect figures for Sephiroth, Rufus, Red XIII and maybe a few more characters (that new SOLDIER guy even maybe).

Beyond this, they showed this during TGS, but I think they're sadly not for sale and are just for some contest (the low-poly ones, but I might be wrong and it be both or none of them):


I am sure it will get bunch of merchs. They are obviously making figures for start





Also other accessories
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Thanks! I'd love some more high quality figures than Play Arts, that would be great. But I guess Final Fantasy isn't known for anything beyond Play Arts, I assume.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,557
I imagine the open world will be traversed by Cloud's bike. They're gonna have to add more roads.

They can follow the basic blueprint of FFXV's open world, but actually fill it with interesting stuff. And if they want the scope of the world to make sense, they can probably logically separate different areas with a "scene transition" to pretend that you just drove on your bike all night to get to another area, rather than FFXV's gas stations and towns all unrealistically within one minute's drive of each other.

FFXV really would have benefited if they had stuck to the trilogy blueprint or had more time.

Game one could have been like this game - Set in Insomnia with the nearby areas and towns explorable, ending with the invasion. Game 2 would have been the whole open world portion where they set off to wake the summons and find the royal arms, maybe with Luna and ending with the Altissia part or before the time skip. Game 3 could have been post time skip expanded. Maybe when we get a remake of the game in 2040 lol.

Still works on me :P


I'd like to see, at the end of Midgar that the party continues on to Kalm with Cloud on the motorcycle and everyone else still piled into the little blue pickup truck.

It would work. Have a hidden love stat again and the highest one will end up on the bike with Cloud and the other 3 in the small car.
 

Nakenorm

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
22,277
It's already been said, but I love how different the turks outfits are.
Didnt notice that Renos suit is almost more like a coat.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,938
FFXV really would have benefited if they had stuck to the trilogy blueprint or had more time.

Game one could have been like this game - Set in Insomnia with the nearby areas and towns explorable, ending with the invasion. Game 2 would have been the whole open world portion where they set off to wake the summons and find the royal arms, maybe with Luna and ending with the Altissia part or before the time skip. Game 3 could have been post time skip expanded. Maybe when we get a remake of the game in 2040 lol.
Honestly, a lot of VII Remake's ideas feel plucked straight out of what we knew about VsXIII's plans before it got retooled into XV. A story that would be told over multiple games, Action Oriented Combat System in which you take direct control of all the characters, a darker tone (obviously VII was already dark, but we're hearing explicit swearing and even a few sexual references in the Remake, and the darker aspects of the story will be emphasized by the realistic graphics).

Since we started hearing more about it, it seems more and more like this is kind of VsVII, if that makes sense.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,496
I don't see how we won't get vehicles. I don't need an open world but just zones and when they let you control airships and what not they just need to do it like the Dragon Quest games do.

Split the exploration maps this way:
1) Big world Zones
2) Dungeons and towns can be separate spaces that you don't need to design to scale with the big world zones
3) Have a simplified world map that you go to when you are in a vehicle. You can still fly around and find hidden areas.

We'll see. If they do a zone-based world my already near-zero hype will fall back down to full 0, honestly. I have never enjoyed zone-based RPG worlds and that's not going to change in a game where the player character can't even jump.

Zone-based overworlds are just so damn boring. Copy-pasted green fields with monsters absently roaming around is the antithesis of fun.
 

Xenosaga

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,976
Honestly, a lot of VII Remake's ideas feel plucked straight out of what we knew about VsXIII's plans before it got retooled into XV. A story that would be told over multiple games, Action Oriented Combat System in which you take direct control of all the characters, a darker tone (obviously VII was already dark, but we're hearing explicit swearing and even a few sexual references in the Remake, and the darker aspects of the story will be emphasized by the realistic graphics).

Since we started hearing more about it, it seems more and more like this is kind of VsVII, if that makes sense.
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A world of the VII Epic
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
We'll see. If they do a zone-based world my already near-zero hype will fall back down to full 0, honestly. I have never enjoyed zone-based RPG worlds and that's not going to change in a game where the player character can't even jump.

Zone-based overworlds are just so damn boring. Copy-pasted green fields with monsters absently roaming around is the antithesis of fun.
As opposed to completely empty world maps that offer absolutely nothing of interest.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,496
As opposed to completely empty world maps that offer absolutely nothing of interest.

At least they offer a slightly different experience. I would rather have an overworld that feels distinctly different and that breaks up the gameplay a little bit than have every single non-town area function identically. Towns should feel different from dungeons and both should feel different from the overworld.

I have never played a zone-based RPG where I enjoyed exploring the world. It has never, ever worked. Devs keep trying and it always sucks. FFXII, DQXI, every post-Vesperia Tales game...how many times do developers have to fail before it becomes clear to them that making their worlds by connecting towns together with a highway of linear field maps doesn't work?
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,557
We'll see. If they do a zone-based world my already near-zero hype will fall back down to full 0, honestly. I have never enjoyed zone-based RPG worlds and that's not going to change in a game where the player character can't even jump.

Zone-based overworlds are just so damn boring. Copy-pasted green fields with monsters absently roaming around is the antithesis of fun.

At least they offer a slightly different experience. I would rather have an overworld that feels distinctly different and that breaks up the gameplay a little bit than have every single non-town area function identically. Towns should feel different from dungeons and both should feel different from the overworld.

I have never played a zone-based RPG where I enjoyed exploring the world. It has never, ever worked. Devs keep trying and it always sucks. FFXII, DQXI, every post-Vesperia Tales game...how many times do developers have to fail before it becomes clear to them that making their worlds by connecting towns together with a highway of linear field maps doesn't work?

The difference is in how they're executed and not whether they are a world map, zones or open world. I don't see how zones equal to boringly designed world. I see you comparing the possibility of zones to FFXII but that game had Ps2 hardware restrictions that prevented its full potential. That's why the areas are separated into some many small zones.

When I say zones I'm thinking of Dragon Quest XI or Xenoblade 2, big spaces that are not quite open world because there's some form of separation and loading. DQXI had a lot of content in each zone-hidden treasures, hidden spots where you need mounts to reach, monster populating the world and a feeling of a living world. What did you not like about it? The game was also varied enough to include the usual JRPG environments. Towns, dungeons and the open zones all feel quite different from each other. It also had a zoomed out simplified worldmap for you to fly around in or sail around.

As for Tales games, what they lack is budget and time. They churned out those games so quickly and practically reused some maps as different ports in one of the games. The problem wasn't zones. It was that Tales games are ultimately B level games when it comes to budget, especially in the Ps3 era.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,336
Honestly, a lot of VII Remake's ideas feel plucked straight out of what we knew about VsXIII's plans before it got retooled into XV. A story that would be told over multiple games, Action Oriented Combat System in which you take direct control of all the characters, a darker tone (obviously VII was already dark, but we're hearing explicit swearing and even a few sexual references in the Remake, and the darker aspects of the story will be emphasized by the realistic graphics).

Since we started hearing more about it, it seems more and more like this is kind of VsVII, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I've thought that for a while too.

First Versus game was supposed to be all about Insomnia.
 

Chasex

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,691
The difference is in how they're executed and not whether they are a world map, zones or open world. I don't see how zones equal to boringly designed world. I see you comparing the possibility of zones to FFXII but that game had Ps2 hardware restrictions that prevented its full potential. That's why the areas are separated into some many small zones.

When I say zones I'm thinking of Dragon Quest XI or Xenoblade 2, big spaces that are not quite open world because there's some form of separation and loading. DQXI had a lot of content in each zone-hidden treasures, hidden spots where you need mounts to reach, monster populating the world and a feeling of a living world. What did you not like about it? The game was also varied enough to include the usual JRPG environments. Towns, dungeons and the open zones all feel quite different from each other. It also had a zoomed out simplified worldmap for you to fly around in or sail around.

As for Tales games, what they lack is budget and time. They churned out those games so quickly and practically reused some maps as different ports in one of the games. The problem wasn't zones. It was that Tales games are ultimately B level games when it comes to budget, especially in the Ps3 era.

Agree with you on all these points.

I would much prefer a zone based overworld than a completely open one. Open worlds I tend to get overwhelmed and start to get anxiety about what I should or shouldn't be doing. With a zone I know that I'm supposed to be there, that the zone is designed for me at this particular part of the game, and the monsters and items are around my level. Anything off limits in that zone be it through environment or guarded by higher level monsters is a place I can make a mental note and revisit later. It's usually pretty clear cut and obvious. As soon as I start second guessing these aspects my interest in the game plummets. I like being able to compartmentalize: "Ok I'm going to work through this zone tonight", or if I stop playing for a few weeks I'm not completely lost when I get back: "I'm in this zone, I need to work through it". It's simple.

I just really, really dislike most of these gaming tends striving for realism. Like I'm not any more "immersed" because the game is open world and doesn't have any loading screens. In fact, more and more often immersion seems to come at the expense of engagement. Whether that be through game mechanics, environmental design, graphics, or whatever else.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
Yeah, having zones doesn't mean we couldn't get big places that actually feel like the countryside, dynamic enough and with some degree of life in them.

Especially when the original game's map is already zoned when on foot, you "just" have to scale it up, change some things around and fill it with wandering enemies and some points of interest. Cleigne in FF XV felt more like a zone to me (unless I'm heavily misremembering it) than an open world and never was I put off or felt that it was a small place, despite having natural barriers left and right and not being terribly big or varied.

On another tangent, having an open world doesn't necessarily imply having a lively world that feels big. Horizon's world to me felt weirdly claustrophobic despite the game's size, and the scale was really off-putting in there too.

A game with this level of visual ambition and budget shouldn't have too much of a problem doing this stuff next-gen.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,891
We have confirmation that this game feels good, right? Like, the combat isn't going to be an unresponsive mess like FFXV, right? I am too hyped by these videos and I want assurances that this is going to feel right.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,496
Agree with you on all these points.

I would much prefer a zone based overworld than a completely open one. Open worlds I tend to get overwhelmed and start to get anxiety about what I should or shouldn't be doing. With a zone I know that I'm supposed to be there, that the zone is designed for me at this particular part of the game, and the monsters and items are around my level. Anything off limits in that zone be it through environment or guarded by higher level monsters is a place I can make a mental note and revisit later. It's usually pretty clear cut and obvious. As soon as I start second guessing these aspects my interest in the game plummets. I like being able to compartmentalize: "Ok I'm going to work through this zone tonight", or if I stop playing for a few weeks I'm not completely lost when I get back: "I'm in this zone, I need to work through it". It's simple.

I just really, really dislike most of these gaming tends striving for realism. Like I'm not any more "immersed" because the game is open world and doesn't have any loading screens. In fact, more and more often immersion seems to come at the expense of engagement. Whether that be through game mechanics, environmental design, graphics, or whatever else.

To be clear, I don't even think it's technologically possible to remake FFVII as a modern-style open world game. They would kill half their staff trying to accomplish that (given how sparse FFXV was and its world was on a MUCH smaller scale), and I don't even think next-gen hardware could handle it even if they somehow DID manage to pull together enough devs to do it on a human resources level.

My issue with zones is that once you've explored one you've explored EVERY one. They all mechanically feel identical to each other. Rather than being like "ooh I have a new place to explore" it's "great, another big empty map with nothing in it that I have to comb looking for the three treasure chests the devs decided to hide in random spots" or "oh look, another big square with a few obvious side areas where I can get like one item" or "oh look it's just a highway with enemies on it". Dragon Quest XI has this problem, Tales has it, FFXII has it, and so on and so forth.

It never feels like you're exploring a world, it feels like you're being pushed through a linear progression of dioramas with slightly different backgrounds or color schemes. And it also makes dungeons feel significantly less meaningful if they're mechanically exactly the same as world progression, just MORE linear.
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
I'm torn on the area of an open world. There's so many caves and dividers that they could easily get away with zones.

It's just the airship. Will they have to nerf it? Make it menu based? Idk.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
At least they offer a slightly different experience. I would rather have an overworld that feels distinctly different and that breaks up the gameplay a little bit than have every single non-town area function identically. Towns should feel different from dungeons and both should feel different from the overworld.

I have never played a zone-based RPG where I enjoyed exploring the world. It has never, ever worked. Devs keep trying and it always sucks. FFXII, DQXI, every post-Vesperia Tales game...how many times do developers have to fail before it becomes clear to them that making their worlds by connecting towns together with a highway of linear field maps doesn't work?
How are world maps any different? They are essentially zones except totally devoid of anything interesting to do but run forwards. The only upside to them is that you can basically do a whole planet with that kind of world map whereas zones are better for large regions/continents/islands. Zones are far better in offering an immersive experience. FFXII was one of the most immersive worlds any game had offered at the time of its release. A bit dated by today's standards & even then technical limitations made them a bit less ambitious than originally planned (it was supposed to be far more seamless but they had to cut areas into smaller pieces). Still, zones work perfectly fine in games. They do need to be designed well & offer something more interesting than just an even field to run through but you have some weird preferences when exploration of fantastical environments is that off-putting to you. You are very alone in that, I'd think.

And they aren't just "highway of linear maps". At least a zone doesn't need to be such. Tales of games are so low budget & mediocre and DQXI needed to accommodate the 3DS/retro version designs as well (I mean, you do understand that DQXI's "zones" are designed exactly like the world maps you so like?), so those limit the possibilities of zones as well. You can do plenty with zones, especially with PS5 level hardware (which is what I presume will be what Part 2 releases on). You're just deciding that everything is shit without even considering that everything might not be just like you imagined or done with as little imagination as you have.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,496
How are world maps any different? They are essentially zones except totally devoid of anything interesting to do but run forwards. The only upside to them is that you can basically do a whole planet with that kind of world map whereas zones are better for large regions/continents/islands. Zones are far better in offering an immersive experience. FFXII was one of the most immersive worlds any game had offered at the time of its release. A bit dated by today's standards & even then technical limitations made them a bit less ambitious than originally planned (it was supposed to be far more seamless but they had to cut areas into smaller pieces). Still, zones work perfectly fine in games. They do need to be designed well & offer something more interesting than just an even field to run through but you have some weird preferences when exploration of fantastical environments is that off-putting to you. You are very alone in that, I'd think.

And they aren't just "highway of linear maps". At least a zone doesn't need to be such. Tales of games are so low budget & mediocre and DQXI needed to accommodate the 3DS/retro version designs as well (I mean, you do understand that DQXI's "zones" are designed exactly like the world maps you so like?), so those limit the possibilities of zones as well. You can do plenty with zones, especially with PS5 level hardware (which is what I presume will be what Part 2 releases on). You're just deciding that everything is shit without even considering that everything might not be just like you imagined or done with as little imagination as you have.

DQXI's maps are boring and empty and I lost interest in the game halfway through because the world felt completely pointless. There was never anything interesting to do or find, just big, dull expanses of space wasting my time.

I have given zones so many chances and they're all dull. Let me travel the world in shorthand (and then use vehicles to speed that up even more) and only give me important areas to go through. I'm tired of having what basically amounts to playable filler making up the bulk of most of these games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,768
One day I just want Robert Ferrari to do the lead character designs. Give Nomura a break. I feel that Robert has a better design sense.
 

sam huge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
183
just make world map with chibi cloud and random encounters you cowards. to spice it up, mix in some unique battlefields where you can stick around clear multiple enemies. heck, instead of random encounters you could just have hot-spots that take you to unique zones via old-school battle transition. World map is for atmosphere, would be a shame to not do one.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,496
I know, I mean on like the next mainline FF. You think they would despite not being Japanese?

Who knows? They might do it, they might not. I remember hearing in the past that Ferrari was pretty pissed about the way things went down with Versus and XV, but I guess Nomura brought him back on for secondary designs in VIIr? I think?

He's not a Square employee at least, the dude's just a contractor, so my gut tells me that Square will err on the side of sticking with established in-house talent for XVI's designs. But stranger things have happened.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,768
Who knows? They might do it, they might not. I remember hearing in the past that Ferrari was pretty pissed about the way things went down with Versus and XV, but I guess Nomura brought him back on for secondary designs in VIIr? I think?

He's not a Square employee at least, the dude's just a contractor, so my gut tells me that Square will err on the side of sticking with established in-house talent for XVI's designs. But stranger things have happened.
Who did the Kingsglaive designs? I thought those were pretty good.