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New Hampshire Democratic debate, 8PM ET on ABC | Live Free or Don't

Tiger Priest

Tiger Priest

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,120
New York, NY
Keith Stat said:
You said she was "finished." I took that as you wanted her to drop out. I apologize if that wasn't your intent.

I also don't think you meant it in a malicious way, but saying the leading female candidate "looked weak" isn't a good look.

You said nothing of Steyer and that had to do with the other message that was quoted in my message.
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On the contrary I wish her and Bernie's position in the polls was flipped! She would be a good president. I still prefer Pete though.

Steyer is so obviously pandering to be Bernie's VP and he has no business at all talking climate change when he made much of his money investing in coal.
 
Jimrpg

Jimrpg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
Mayor Pete did a horrible job in general tonight - but i'm just watching the start of the debate because I missed it before, but he got was right when he defended Joe Biden and his son.
 
Keith Stat

Keith Stat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,258
ScribbleD said:
I said no such thing at all. I said neither of these two things. So again I'm gonna ask wtf are you talking about?
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Sorry, I apologize and updated my message as I see I got your message crossed with Tiger's. Shouldn't have combined the two.

I do disagree strongly Steyer has any business being up there at this stage. He's a billionaire that bought his way on the stage and received .3% of the vote. He says nice fluffy things, but this weird romanticizing of Steyer has no business at this point and his time belongs to literally anyone else on that stage.
 

Deleted member 20630

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,406
arbok26 said:
Mayor Pete did a horrible job in general tonight - but i'm just watching the start of the debate because I missed it before, but he got was right when he defended Joe Biden and his son.
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Pete got beat up by every person on the stage. They went to town on him, and Pete's record and general demeanor as a person makes it really easy.

It doesn't help that he cannot go off-script without short circuiting. He's very much the Marco Rubio of this race, with perhaps an even worse record.
 
Jimrpg

Jimrpg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
Tiger Priest said:
On the contrary I wish her and Bernie's position in the polls was flipped! She would be a good president. I still prefer Pete though.

Steyer is so obviously pandering to be Bernie's VP and he has no business at all talking climate change when he made much of his money investing in coal.
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It's possible he regrets some parts of that decision, but now making climate change his top priority, I think that's a fairly big turnaround. You can't always be on the right side of every issue, but at least he changed his views. Look at Tulsi Gabbard, she was against same sex marriage when she was younger, but has changed her mind.
 
Jimrpg

Jimrpg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
ScribbleD said:
Pete got beat up by every person on the stage. They went to town on him, and Pete's record and general demeanor as a person makes it really easy.

It doesn't help that he cannot go off-script without short circuiting. He's very much the Marco Rubio of this race, with perhaps an even worse record.
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They had to go after him tonight, he was climbing in polls.

I wonder if he'll be around after Super Tuesday.
 

Deleted member 20630

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,406
Mekanos said:
lmao wait until you hear his answer on race issues. it's a doozy.
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Yeah. It's the kind of thing that, just by itself, should be enough to disqualify his candidacy.

arbok26 said:
They had to go after him tonight, he was climbing in polls.

I wonder if he'll be around after Super Tuesday.
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Oh they went after him way harder than they needed to. Legit seemed like they didn't just see a target on someone rising in the polls, they went after him with the knives out like they just didn't like him. It was great. Everybody was pretty respectful with each other for the most part, but Pete got nothing but disdain from the other 6.
 
Tiger Priest

Tiger Priest

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,120
New York, NY
arbok26 said:
It's possible he regrets some parts of that decision, but now making climate change his top priority, I think that's a fairly big turnaround. You can't always be on the right side of every issue, but at least he changed his views. Look at Tulsi Gabbard, she was against same sex marriage when she was younger, but has changed her mind.
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Are you seriously pointing to Tulsi Gabbard as a positive example of anything?
 
Jimrpg

Jimrpg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
Mekanos said:
It's the exact kind of thing that makes it obvious he can't significantly grow his POC support and why he can't win the primary.
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You just know that if he polls as well as he does in NH like he did in Iowa, the DNC might have to back him and not Biden in the mainstream media. That would make him tougher to deal with for Sanders/Warren.

I don't know what the rules are for a contested convention, but the dem establishment probably want to get to that, then the nominee decision would be in their hands. Whereas Sanders best bet is to win outright.
 
splash wave

splash wave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,537
Bay Area, CA
What happens if Pete wins in NH? I still feel like he doesn't have enough non-white support to become the nominee, but I do feel that he'd compromise Sanders' position as the frontrunner. Then what? The return of Biden?
 

Deleted member 24149

Oct 29, 2017
2,150
splash wave said:
What happens if Pete wins in NH? I still feel like he doesn't have enough non-white support to become the nominee, but I do feel that he'd compromise Sanders' position as the frontrunner. Then what? The return of Biden?
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He'll carry more momentum that might swing make him unstoppable. I would be physically sick if he won NH.
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,126
arbok26 said:
You just know that if he polls as well as he does in NH like he did in Iowa, the DNC might have to back him and not Biden in the mainstream media. That would make him tougher to deal with for Sanders/Warren.

I don't know what the rules are for a contested convention, but the dem establishment probably want to get to that, then the nominee decision would be in their hands. Whereas Sanders best bet is to win outright.
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If there's a contested convention the party will be irrevocably broken and we will basically hand Trump the win.
 
Surfinn

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Let's have a little optimism here. I think Pete's huge boost will be temporary and tonight certainly didn't do him any favors. Still a good chance NH goes to Bernie
 
Jimrpg

Jimrpg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,280
Mekanos said:
If there's a contested convention the party will be irrevocably broken and we will basically hand Trump the win.
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Right now the establishment dems are acting like Bernie Sanders's movement against wealth inequality is just as horrible as Donald Trump. The Iowa caucus farce is evidence of that. Sanders is the outright leader in polls in almost 50 states, this thing should be over, but not one analyst wants to ever give Sanders credit. The upper middle class who are on tv and in the media are in on the problem. They get paid massive wages by these billionaires and they're scared of Bernie.
 
Ziltoidia 9

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,141
I used to ponder if the reason we can't decide on the best nom with the field we have was because we didn't have that strong of a field, but I then came to realize that it was more about how everything we have tried the past 4 years to fight the Trumps version of the GOP over, we some how just got disregarded, even when we had the law on our side. I really don't know who the best candidate to beat Trump is, but I'm glad we are having this discussion legitimately this time. We didn't really give it a glance in 2016.

I also wonder if the reason there were 4 million less voters in 2016 is because people thought it was so in the bag that Hillary would win, so they just didn't bother.

So Bernies "political revolution" that brings out millions of new voters or not, who ever is on the general ticket should have that goal to have us break new grounds in turn out.

In some ways you could see Trumps 2016 number as his peak, because they were fighting hard to get their bullshit world view into the white house. Maybe it is wishfull thinking, but if it was his peak, maybe it will turn out okay if we can get voters back out like in 2012?
 
Xaszatm

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Today in HOLY SHIT CHRIS MATTHEWS WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SAYING:



Chris is...uh...starting to lose it I see.
 
Grug

Grug

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,644
Xaszatm said:
Today in HOLY SHIT CHRIS MATTHEWS WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SAYING:



Chris is...uh...starting to lose it I see.
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That's the sort of "hurrr sure socialism" boogie man shit I would expect from Fox News, not MSNBC.

Look at his policy platform Matthews. You can clearly see it's the European social democratic model. He isn't being intellectually honest here. Which moderate empty shirt is he stanning for?
 

Something Creative

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,183
Grug said:
That's the sort of "hurrr sure socialism" boogie man shit I would expect from Fox News, not MSNBC.

Look at his policy platform Matthews. You can clearly see it's the European social democratic model. He isn't being intellectually honest here. Which moderate empty shirt is he stanning for?
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HRC still? Honestly that would make the most sense.
 
tulpa

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
Grug said:
Which moderate empty shirt is he stanning for?
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Klobuchar. it was surreal watching it. they had a live audience where person after person they asked talked about her genius and guile, and then they cut to the panel all agreeing that Klobuchar and Warren were the clear winners. and then Chris Matthews started talking about Castro and how he would be publicly executed and the Sanders people would cheer.

it was some wacky shit, i had to turn if off after a few minutes. i was getting a headache
 
Mekanos

Mekanos

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Oct 17, 2018
44,126
I talked about this earlier but I just want to re-iterate it after that disastrous debate statement he made tonight: it is so patronizing how I have seen people be dismissive of Pete's inability to grow his POC support ever since his Iowa performance. People act like he'll just magically grow it because the DNC back him, like his significant problems and history will be ignored by voters, or that POC are a monolith that will just blindly support the Democrat candidate no matter who it is. Democrats aren't owed POC votes and POC have no obligation to vote for a candidate that hasn't earned their trust. No candidate is owed votes, period, least of all from marginalized communities that have been hurt by the Democrat party's policies and actions.

If Democrats really want to be the party of unity and diversity, they would spit in the face of all of that with Pete as the nomination.
 
Quample

Quample

Member
Dec 23, 2017
3,231
Cincinnati, OH
Sanders' conviction is primarily what takes him above and beyond the other candidates. Biden is just "me me me and him him him", Pete has a lot of agreeable talking points but his phraseology comes off to me as overly calculated and rehearsed. You can argue that analysis of character doesn't matter, and of course it doesn't matter as much as the actual issues themselves and acting upon them, but in debates and politics there's a huge discrepancy between "saying what people want to hear" and "saying what you believe is right". Sanders wins the latter by a landslide, imo.
 
Casa

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,501
Been saying this for an while in the PoliEra thread. Chris Matthews has been like this for months with Bernie. It's like that every time he's on. Just like that clip posted the other hosts always just stare at him in disbelief.

He acts like a one of those ultra gullible, super low info voters who fall for the scary socialist propaganda.
 

Deleted member 5359

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
11,326
Grug said:
That's the sort of "hurrr sure socialism" boogie man shit I would expect from Fox News, not MSNBC.

Look at his policy platform Matthews. You can clearly see it's the European social democratic model. He isn't being intellectually honest here. Which moderate empty shirt is he stanning for?
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The "MS" in MSNBC stands for Microsoft. Literally. No, they're no longer a part of the venture. But it's a reminder as to exactly what they represent: corporate shaped news. Not even hiding it.
 
danm999

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,096
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Chris Matthews concerned with Sanders proposal to behead all counter revoluntaries with Valyrian Steel blade gifted to him by Ross Perot.
 

Deleted member 10551

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
3,031
arbok26 said:
Right now the establishment dems are acting like Bernie Sanders's movement against wealth inequality is just as horrible as Donald Trump. The Iowa caucus farce is evidence of that. Sanders is the outright leader in polls in almost 50 states, this thing should be over, but not one analyst wants to ever give Sanders credit. The upper middle class who are on tv and in the media are in on the problem. They get paid massive wages by these billionaires and they're scared of Bernie.
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Bernie's path to victory is the same as Trump's in the 2016 primary, but it's going to be harder because the Dems have a lot more organized corruption in their party apparatus. (Republicans are more personally corrupt), and the Dems are a more diverse group, so you can't just play a white supremacy card equivalent.

He's gotta get the most delegates, or at least a plurality (the way it's set up it's hard to get a majority), have the most popular support at the end while the establishment remains split. Then he has to win the convention, which might be tough, but the Dems would know what they're risking if they screw Bernie there.
 

TiC

Banned
Jul 12, 2019
609
Kyra said:
Warren got the rawest deal of em all eh? But Bernie did well so that's great!
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What happened to Warren recently? She had a spike in the polling a few months back and was #2 against Biden, but now she is slowly fading away. I don't recall her having any scandals or blunders. To be fair, I didn't understand where her surge in support emerged from back then either.
Her rise and fall both just seemed to come out of nowhere.
 
Grug

Grug

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Oct 26, 2017
4,644


Theron Gilliland, Jr. @hotgayscientist

Chris Matthews' wife Kathleen was a candidate in the Democratic primary for Maryland's 8th congressional district. She was defeated by the leftist Jamie Raskin, himself endorsed by the "Our Revolution" PAC inspired by Bernie Sanders. Chris Matthews has hated Bernie ever since.
 
Killthee

Killthee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,169
TiC said:
What happened to Warren recently? She had a spike in the polling a few months back and was #2 against Biden, but now she is slowly fading away. I don't recall her having any scandals or blunders. To be fair, I didn't understand where her surge in support emerged from back then either.
Her rise and fall both just seemed to come out of nowhere.
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She flew too close to the sun too early. As she got close to being the front runner the media focused their target on her, specifically on how she would pay for M4A. Pete saw an opening in this and he bludgeoned her with it, she botched her response, and then Sanders supporters saw an opening and pounced on it. So she bled her moderates to Pete, some progressives to Bernie, and as her viability has dwindled the progressives that were sticking by her have started to rally behind Bernie since hes currently the stronger candidate of the 2 against the moderate wing of the party.
 
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