New Patent From Mark Cerny suggests Sony solved BC on PS5 and PS4 (update: latest continuation of a 2015 patent regarding PS4 Pro running PS4 games)

[Vash]

A new patent was filed by Mark Cerny that, as the title says, suggests PlayStation may finally be able to move forward on full backwards compatibility for the PS5 and PS4.

With the mentioning of a "Spoof Clock" and "Fine Grain Frequency Control", and especially that of Claim 11, could point to them solving the software side that would allow them to run games from the PS1, PS2, PS3 and the PSP on both later systems.

It's an interesting read nonetheless, and you can find the patent here: Backward Compatability Through Use Of Spoof Clock And Fine Grain Frequency Control

It is not currently known if this has anything to do with the recent rumors and news about Spartacus, but it would be great if true. I don't expect disc versions of your games to work on PS5 though.

Source:

 

[Transistor]

PS1, PS2, PS3 _and_ the PSP on both later systems.

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Y no Vita

 

[litebrite]

Hope they did figure it out.

Would be a great feature.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I will believe PS3 when I see it, but I would pay for a PS1, PS2, and PSP and Vita games alone. The inaccessibility of this catalog is one of PlayStation's biggest shortcomings - I'd actually go so far to call it a failing - and I hope this means they are finally about to rectify this in a meaningful way.

 

[Amnixia]

Y no Vita

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Touch controls on the back?

 

[Diogo Arez]

If he figured out PS3 I'll praise him forever considering how much of a hassle it was always considered

 

[Delusibeta]

I dunno, on initial skim this reads to me like a solution for PS4 backwards compatability. I don't see anything that would improve the ability to run non-x86 code (that would be required for pre-PS4 software).

 

[Transistor]

Touch controls on the back?

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Like, 12 games actually used that lol

 

[Deleted member 13101]

Please tell me "Spoof Clock" is the name of Sony's employee jam band.

 

[Strings]

Y no Vita

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Because it's a cruel world we live in and there is no justice.

 

[Amnixia]

Would be nice but I got rid of all my old shit ):

I'd hunt down Champions of Norrath 1 and 2 in a heartbeat though

 

[purseowner]

Y no Vita

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Because then Cr*m*nal G*rls et al would run on PS5, and judging from Sony's recent moves on content alteration I doubt they want that.

I only half kid. (But it's probably more because there's less demand from the core Sony audience for Vita BC)

 

[Nightfall]

This together with Spartacus sounds promising. They can then have all my money.

 

[Vash]

Y no Vita

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Good point, just forgot to mention it.

Of course, all the platforms mentioned are purely speculative. It could be just PS1 and PS2, but combined with the rumor of the PS1 and PSP library on PSNow that seems to be more like at this point. Full BC would be the dream though.

 

[Acquiescence]

If BC is on the way then I hope we can purchase these older games digitally and that they aren't just tied to a subscription service.

 

[Rodelero]

Like, 12 games actually used that lol

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All of the good ones.

 

[STGHMAAV]

I don't expect disc versions of your games to work on PS5 though.

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PSP I understand, but not for PS1/2/3? Is there a hardware issue for that to be a problem?

 

[Stowaway Silfer]

Y no Vita

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Everyone forgets the Vita when talking about BC

 

[Delusibeta]

Besides, Sony already has functional emulators for PS1, PS2 and PSP games, and they used them on significantly weaker hardware than the PS5. Not sure why they would feel the need to reinvent the wheel there.

 

[hey it's that dog]

This was posted in the PS studios thread and people said it's an old patent.

Also it sounds like the PS4 BC solution.

 

[cw_sasuke]

This would be massive, endless possibilities considering how large the PS libraries of the past are.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Y no Vita

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Ironically, the Vita's best feature and the strength of its catalog came largely from its backwards compatibility. Vita did what PS4 and PS5 won't.

 

[dlauv]

I remember the last time people got hyped for Cerny patents. It'd be great but I'm taking a wait and see approach in terms of expectations.

 

[Strafer]

That would be amazing.

 

[Vash]

Everyone forgets the Vita when talking about BC

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Even I make that mistake sometimes, yeah. And I love my Vita.

*Hangs head in shame*

 

[Diogo Arez]

PSP I understand, but not for PS1/2/3? Is there a hardware issue for that to be a problem?

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Iirc the PS5 disc drive isn't compatible or something like that I remember seeing

 

[Callibretto]

PSP I understand, but not for PS1/2/3? Is there a hardware issue for that to be a problem?

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Because Sony is not making any money from that, of bc is finally coming, it's probably to add more library content for their subscription service or something

 

[gofreak]

These are not new patents, have been floating about for years in various guises, and likely deal with work relating to getting PS4 software to run on PS5. Mentions of platforms in patent applications are by often by way of illustration only.

 

[Print_Dog]

Oh snap. This Spartacus stuff is getting interesting

 

[HardRojo]

Will get excited when it's official or we get all but official types of info about this. For now, I'll just keep expectations in check.

 

[Shopolic]

If this happens, I expect to see PS1,2,3,P (and maybe PS4?) games from PlayStation studios on Spartacus. That would be an amazing library, even without new PS5 games.

 

[Patitoloco]

"Spoof Clock", in fact, sounds to me more like a FPS Boost kind of thing right?

Lying to the game that it's running at X frequency, while the console is actually running it differently?

 

[Psyrgery]

If BC is on the way then I hope we can purchase these older games digitally and that they aren't just tied to a subscription service.

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Thats ridiculous, who would do something like that?

 

[CarterTax]

I thought I read in some other thread on this site that the patents were older and related to the PS4 Pro running PS4 games at their original clock speed or something to that nature (I am not technical lol)

 

[litebrite]

I dunno, on initial skim this reads to me like a solution for PS4 backwards compatability. I don't see anything that would improve the ability to run non-x86 code (that would be required for pre-PS4 software).

Click to shrink...

This was posted in the PS studios thread and people said it's an old patent.

Also it sounds like the PS4 BC solution.

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Thanks.

No need for us to get excited then.

 

[2Blackcats]

This was posted in the PS studios thread and people said it's an old patent.

Also it sounds like the PS4 BC solution.

Click to shrink...

I certainly remember that terminology from older patents.

 

[gabdeg]

I don't understand how patents regarding manipulating clocks and frequencies will help with emulating the older hardware architectures of PS1-PS3.

 

[Pankratous]

This is gonna sound dumb, but is PS4 even powerful enough to run PS3 games?

Like, isn't the CELL a lot stronger from a CPU perspective than the Jaguar thingy?

 

[nsilvias]

this sounds like enchanced last gen games solution rather than actual bc

 

[dlauv]

This was posted in the PS studios thread and people said it's an old patent.

Also it sounds like the PS4 BC solution.

Click to shrink...

On Reddit they said it was named differently than the old patent.

This is gonna sound dumb, but is PS4 even powerful enough to run PS3 games?

Like, isn't the CELL a lot stronger from a CPU perspective than the Jaguar thingy?

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No the PS4 CPU was stronger. The Cell could be a "cell" in a daisy-chained PS3 supercomputer "body" though. The Cell was also complex, which made BC difficult.

 

[Korigama]

That sounds nice and all, but doesn't amount to much until it's actually implemented.

 

[nsilvias]

This is gonna sound dumb, but is PS4 even powerful enough to run PS3 games?

Like, isn't the CELL a lot stronger from a CPU perspective than the Jaguar thingy?

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nope. the ps4 cpu is a crappy netbook processor. even a high end processor today struggles with ps3 in alot of titles

 

[Kill3r7]

This looks promising. Although it is a continuation of several prior patents .

This application is a continuation of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 16/740,271, filed Jan. 10, 2020 to be issued as U.S. Pat. No. 11,119,528. U.S. patent application Ser. No. 16/740,271 is a continuation of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 15/701,736 filed Sep. 12, 2017, now U.S. Pat. No. 10,534,395, the entire contents of which are incorporated herein by reference. U.S. patent application Ser. No. 15/701,736 is a continuation of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 14/627,988 filed Feb. 20, 2015, now U.S. Pat. No. 9,760,113, the entire contents of which are incorporated herein by reference.

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[jsnepo]

OKAY! WHY not discs? At least for PS3 games, allow discs so I can finally get rid of my PS3!

 

[GhostTrick]

I fail to see the relation with clocks and PS1/PS2/PS3 hardware when the architectures are that different. It's not like PS4 where it's from the same vendor and use an architure, while different, has some similarities between them.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I'd still want the ability to run old disc games.

But I wonder if the Spartacus platform will be the only way to consume legacy content. Because I have a hard time seeing Sony move the PS3 and Vita stores onto the modern PSN.

 

[Carn]

Ah, "Patent Watchers".

A lot of assumptions going on here. Similar patents regarding this have been filed from literally years back; this could still be ongoing research to improve current BC-capabilities, or just updates; it doesnt imply that we're getting PS1/PS2/PS3 BC.

Backward compatibility through use of spoof clock and fine grain frequency control (first filing january 2020)
Spoofing CPUID for backwards compatibility (first filing 2017)
Simulating legacy bus behavior for backwards compatibility (2017)
Backward compatibility testing of software in a mode that disrupts timing (2015)
BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY BY RESTRICTION OF HARDWARE RESOURCES (2015)

 

[big_z]

"Spoof Clock", in fact, sounds to me more like a FPS Boost kind of thing right?

Lying to the game that it's running at X frequency, while the console is actually running it differently?

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No, sounds like it's fooling the emulator into thinking it's running at the correct clock speed for the corresponding console. This would allow for games to run more accurately to real hardware improving compatibility but not necessarily improving graphics/performance.

 

[Deleted member 17860]

If BC is on the way then I hope we can purchase these older games digitally and that they aren't just tied to a subscription service.

Click to shrink...

or let us redownload them again if we use the same psn which i have for 14 years now -_- would love to replay SSX or demon souls.. i even still have my msg4 ps3 but i have no controller anymore and they are insane prices if you want a sony one.. :/

 

[NewDust]

I'm gonna be pessimistic and expect this to be an enhanced BC for PS4 on PS5, fixing the remaining games with issues. Not withstanding that is seems there wil be broader BC on PS5, just that I think this particular patent might not be filed for that.