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Best gym leader

  • #TeamBea - Sword Exclusive

  • #TeamAllister - Shield Exclusive


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lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,643
Holy hell, have people seen this?




The battle animations in this largely look soooo much better than in Sword/Shield...and it's a chinese knockoff mobile game.


its been spammed a bunch, yes. The comparison doesn't really make any kind of sense though as theyre not similar games and they have 1 unique attack per Pokemon and like 60 total. Would make more sense to compare it to Pokemon Masters which is along those lines (gacha, battles only, 3v3 with simplified pokemon)

Kind of shitty to promote a game that's using stolen assets too :/
 
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ERAsaur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
750
I do think there is a level of polish to come. We have seen an improvement in each of the subsequent trailers.

I do hope they map the Max Move to Charizard better. It is mapped to its original position but not its final. There's still time to fix
I'm personally fine with it as it is now. It was either PBR or Colosseum/XD that mapped the "beam" moves to the correct places but as a result this made the beam physically move around like, well, a solid pole. It looked horrible and still hit on the other side of the screen in its original trajectory.

So they can either:
-Change Charizard's no-contact attack animation to be much more boring and stationary, making several other moves that share the animation less flashy.
-Map all "beam" moves to their point of origin.
-Leave it as it is and just say the move came from the fire dimension or something.

Like I said, the third one isn't exactly ideal but as it is, Pokemon get a contact animation and a no-contact animation with some occasional exceptions and if I had a game to ship in 4 months I'd prefer some slight misalignment over the other options.
 

Deleted member 19218

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,323
The biggest sin in Pokemon is the one open blank space in Pokken Tournament DX's full roster with DLC:
DY72-v0X4AcvkqH.jpg


Come on you could have easily added a random selector there or a Battle Pack 3!

Obviously it isn't a real sin but it does bother me cause I'm weird lol

Should have been Venosaur. Blastoise and Charizard are there so it's strange leaving the Podedex #1 Pokemon out.
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,048
Melbourne, Australia
its been spammed a bunch, yes. The comparison doesn't really make any kind of sense though as theyre not similar games and they have 1 unique attack per Pokemon. Would make more sense to compare it to Pokemon Masters which is along those lines.
Always with the excuses.

It's ridiculous that a chinese knockoff could show up the mainline series in any regard...right? And yet it absolutely does. The basic attacks look amazing, and the specials are on another level compared to what Game Freak is doing. That trailer is exactly what Game Freak should be able to do on a much larger scale. I mean the budget of that knockoff is probably minuscule, and yet most of their animations look superb compared to Sword and Shield. There's so much personality to them. Seriously, you should check out the several unique animations each Pokemon seemingly has in the stats screen, let alone what they're doing in battles.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,643
Always with the excuses.

It's ridiculous that a chinese knockoff could show up the mainline series in any regard...right? That trailer is indicative of what Game Freak should be able to do on a much larger scale. I mean the budget of that knockoff is probably minuscule, and yet most of their animations look superb compared to Sword and Shield. Seriously, you should check out the several unique animations each Pokemon seemingly has in the stats screen, let alone what they're doing in battles. The basic attacks look amazing, and the specials are on another level compared to what Game Freak is doing.

Excuse? Its a bootleg gacha game with stolen models and some janky ass animations. The basic attacks look and sound terrible. The special moves look fine but again they're 1 per each of the 60 pokemon similar to Masters sync moves. I think Masters also looks a whole lot more polished.
People should stop promoting pirated shit. Support the official mobile game instead.
 
Jun 2, 2019
4,947
Always with the excuses.

It's ridiculous that a chinese knockoff could show up the mainline series in any regard...right? That trailer is indicative of what Game Freak should be able to do on a much larger scale. I mean the budget of that knockoff is probably minuscule, and yet most of their animations look superb compared to Sword and Shield. Seriously, you should check out the several unique animations each Pokemon seemingly has in the stats screen, let alone what they're doing in battles. The basic attacks look amazing, and the specials are on another level compared to what Game Freak is doing.

Not this fucking shit again, please
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,048
Melbourne, Australia
Excuse? Its a bootleg gacha game with stolen models and some janky ass animations. The basic attacks look and sound terrible. The special moves look fine but again they're 1 per each of the 60 pokemon similar to Masters sync moves. I think Masters also looks a whole lot more polished.
I honestly don't know someone could look at that trailer and not see it as embarrassing for Game Freak. It has a smaller scope, sure, but it's not being made by a billion-dollar studio. Sword and Shield battles look hella static in comparison.

Not this fucking shit again, please
This is the only active Sword & Shield thread atm. The others have been locked. So...no, sorry.
 
Jun 2, 2019
4,947
I honestly don't know someone could look at that trailer and not see it as embarrassing for Game Freak. It has a smaller scope, sure, but it's not being made by a billion-dollar studio. Sword and Shield battles look hella static in comparison.


This is the only active Sword & Shield thread atm. The others have been locked. So...no, sorry.
And they have been locked for a reason, don't you think?

I won't even answer to the rest of your post because you're parroting the same nonsense everyone spouts, so please save us the hassle
 

Apa504

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Oct 25, 2017
1,291
User warned: hostility

ERAsaur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
750
I honestly don't know someone could look at that trailer and not see it as embarrassing for Game Freak. It has a smaller scope, sure, but it's not being made by a billion-dollar studio. Sword and Shield battles look hella static in comparison.
While they do look nice, they're designed with only one move in mind. Could you see that Greninja animation being used for, say, Power-up Punch? Waterfall? That type of animation would be one that would show up for a Z-Move or signature move exclusive to Greninja. As I said earlier in the thread, they have to limit it to one contact animation and one non-contact animation (with some exceptions like Mewtwo I believe, it's been a while) that work for all sorts of move effects or else the scope of the project would become way too massive even for one of the biggest franchises in the world.
 

Nightbird

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,780
Germany
I guess people complained about every pokemon game then.

Absolutely, every gen/game had its complaints.

The difference to what's happening now is the scale.

Hell, Black/White had also people complaining about not being able to use older Pokemon, the difference here being that they could however use them after completing the game.

Still, those complaints lead to B/W2 abolishing the concept of locking older Pokémon out of the main story forever.

Some like it, others dislike it and a few downright hate it.


The Pokémon-series is no stranger to controversy. But contrary to what's happening now, there was always some way to rationalize the issues. It's just that this time around, people ain't having it. They are not satisfied.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,752
Has this been talked about



Now this makes a lot more sense as to why not every Pokemon will be included in S/S

Assuming this is true (honestly can't tell with how much false info makes the rounds these days) then they really should have clarified this from the start but I guess they didn't want to have to make it look like their "future proofing models" attempts completely backfired.
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,048
Melbourne, Australia
And they have been locked for a reason, don't you think?
The thread specifically about the Pokemon cull was seemingly locked after someone used a phrase that's often used to mock people with autism. And it didn't come from someone critical of Game Freak, if that's what you were thinking!

Dude has been looking for SwSh threads. It's obvious what his aim is.
To point out how poor Sword and Shield look in comparison? Congrats, you figured it out.

While they do look nice, they're designed with only one move in mind. Could you see that Greninja animation being used for, say, Power-up Punch? Waterfall? That type of animation would be one that would show up for a Z-Move or signature move exclusive to Greninja. As I said earlier in the thread, they have to limit it to one contact animation and one non-contact animation (with some exceptions like Mewtwo I believe, it's been a while) that work for all sorts of move effects or else the scope of the project would become way too massive even for one of the biggest franchises in the world.
As I said - obviously the scope of this game is much smaller, but that's to be expected from a chinese knockoff. And yet I genuinely think almost all of those animations look considerably better than what Game Freak has been able to achieve. You're right that some of those animations probably couldn't be used for a wide variety of attacks as is, but I'm not arguing Game Freak should be copying these wholesale. Just that this is a good example of what I think they should be aiming for. And I feel that the developer of one of the biggest game franchises in the world should be capable of better.

But they won't bother, because they don't need to. People will buy the games anyway.
 

Apa504

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Oct 25, 2017
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Assuming this is true (honestly can't tell with how much false info makes the rounds these days) then they really should have clarified this from the start but I guess they didn't want to have to make it look like their "future proofing models" attempts completely backfired.

They did at E3, everyone called it a lie.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,752
They did at E3, everyone called it a lie.
I really can't remember what it was they said at E3, I don't remember them mentioning being forced to recreate Pokémon models from scratch because of porting issues, I just remember them talking about making new animations. If they did, then Mandela effect is working hard against me on this one.
 

Apa504

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The thread specifically about the Pokemon cull was seemingly locked after someone used a phrase that's often used to mock people with autism. And it didn't come from someone critical of Game Freak, if that's what you were thinking!

Haha no.
Joe used that word, and it was rightly warned, but the thread was closed because everyone started acussing him of being a shill and defending Gamefreak.
 
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Apa504

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I really can't remember what it was they said at E3, I don't remember them mentioning being forced to recreate Pokémon models from scratch because of porting issues, I just remember them talking about making new animations. If they did, then Mandela effect is working hard against me on this one.

They didnt mention it at the treehouse, but at an interview the day after the dex news, I think.
 
Jun 2, 2019
4,947
To point out how poor Sword and Shield look in comparison? Congr

You haven't pointed anything. You have used a poor knockoff based on asset flipping (I would even bet that animations have been stolen from somewhere) and compared it with a game that has more than 10x pokémon and a whole different estructure and content. And then you proceeded to do a checklist of multimillion studio, lazy devs rethoric yadda yadda. Not only you didn't say nothing new, you almost sound like a copy paste of a reddittor outrage.
 

Serebii

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Oct 24, 2017
13,117
Has this been talked about



Now this makes a lot more sense as to why not every Pokemon will be included in S/S

Pretty sure I talked to that back in June and people said they were lying haha.

What people don't get is that models are more than just the wireframes. Textures are confirmed to have been redone btw, not just a new lighting on it. We can tell that by Minccino's eyes.

Then if there was a need to remap animations to the models during the transfer, that too would take time and resources.


Haha no.
Joe used that word, and it was rightly warned, but the thread was closed because everyone started acussing him of being a shil and defend Gamefreak.
Yeah that warning was 100% right. I didn't know the history of the phrase
You haven't pointed anything. You have used a poor knockoff based on asset flipping (I would even bet that animations have been stolen from somewhere) and compared it with a game that has more than 10x pokémon and a whole different estructure and content. And then you proceeded to do a checklist of multimillion studio, lazy devs rethoric yadda yadda. Not only you didn't say nothing new, you almost sound like a copy paste of a reddittor outrage.
There was an example that the Charizard animation did seem to be at the very least based on a Pokkén animation from Charizard
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,752
Frankly they reallllly should have said this from the start - there would be far less backlash
I don't know about that. It might be a more understandable reason, but designing assets to be future proofed and having them not actually be future proofed adds a whole lot of fuel to the sentiment that Game Freak are inept.
 

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
I really can't remember what it was they said at E3, I don't remember them mentioning being forced to recreate Pokémon models from scratch because of porting issues, I just remember them talking about making new animations. If they did, then Mandela effect is working hard against me on this one.
They mentioned it at some point right after the news and people said it was either a lie or incompetence.

My god, the last sentence is such a great idea.

Imagine having a nice pokemon you really like, then making it your Partner in a new Ranger game, or it becoming you in a Mystery Dungeon game.
That idea has potential.
 

Galkinator

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,947
Has this been talked about



Now this makes a lot more sense as to why not every Pokemon will be included in S/S

If what's said there is true - it's absolutely ridiculous that the developer of one of the biggest gaming franchise in the world has only 143 employees, where only half of them actively works on the most awaited release in a long time.
It's both hindering their progression towards better and more modern games and at the same time their workers probably suffer from an insane crunch, especially considering they work in Japan where people work themselves to death.
Hire more people GF, jesus.
 

Wise

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,228
If what's said there is true - it's absolutely ridiculous that the developer of one of the biggest gaming franchise in the world has only 143 employees, where only half of them actively works on the most awaited release in a long time.
It's both hindering their progression towards better and more modern games and at the same time their workers probably suffer from an insane crunch, especially considering they work in Japan where people work themselves to death.
Hire more people GF, jesus.
Agreed. They have way too little employees
 

Nightbird

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,780
Germany
Has this been talked about



Now this makes a lot more sense as to why not every Pokemon will be included in S/S


While not specifically this article, this possibility has been talked before, yes.


What I find curious is that, according to this article, they haven't ruled out the possibility of making all Pokémon available in a single title again, contrary to what we've been told before.

If that's true it would improve this whole situation for me quite a bit.

If what's said there is true - it's absolutely ridiculous that the developer of one of the biggest gaming franchise in the world has only 143 employees, where only half of them actively works on the most awaited release in a long time.

It's both hindering their progression towards better and more modern games and at the same time their workers probably suffer from an insane crunch, especially considering they work in Japan where people work themselves to death.

Hire more people GF, jesus.

Don't forget, not all of those 143 are active developers. Some are Designers, Composers e.t.c. So the actual number of people from Game Freak involved in the process of doing the "grunt work" of coding and programming is much less than that.
 

Serebii

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Oct 24, 2017
13,117
I'm sorry but this has to be bullshit.
If it's true, then it's such a level of revoltingly incredible incompetence that I'm left speechless.

Don't TPC handle the models anyway, not Gamefreak?
How is it incompetence?

where only half of them actively works on the most awaited release in a long time.
Can we stop this? It's not only half. Gear Project didn't gut half of Game Freak and there are people who work on both too. Plus, GEAR PROJECT HAS EXISTED SINCE 2010.

Also, Sun & Moon had over 500 people work on it, so for god's sake stop pushing this fake narrative
I'm sorry but this has to be bullshit.
If it's true, then it's such a level of revoltingly incredible incompetence that I'm left speechless.

Don't TPC handle the models anyway, not Gamefreak?
Creatures Inc. do the bulk of the models and animation for Pokémon games, yes. Game Freak outsource it to them.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,752
If what's said there is true - it's absolutely ridiculous that the developer of one of the biggest gaming franchise in the world has only 143 employees, where only half of them actively works on the most awaited release in a long time.
It's both hindering their progression towards better and more modern games and at the same time their workers probably suffer from an insane crunch, especially considering they work in Japan where people work themselves to death.
Hire more people GF, jesus.
I don't really think that Redditor knows how game dev works. Pokémon, like most other development studios, gets a whole lot of work done through outsourcing. The number of people involved with Sword & Shield is guaranteed to be way more than just 143 people, and it doesn't really behoove a studio like Game Freak to expand when their output outside of just Pokémon is limited in scale.
 
Feb 26, 2019
4,273
Tijuana
I think that interview was shared/ talked about the day after the Treehouse event. All the points sound familiar to me, I thought everyone had read it already.

What an efficient way to future proof the models though, if they couldn't even survive the passing from just 1 generation of console to another.
 

Ramsay

Member
Jul 2, 2019
3,621
Australia
This makes me more curious about Sword and Shield-if Gamefreak had to recreate all of these models from scratch, then why didn't they take this opportunity to change Pokemon's artstyle? It would have made this game look far more appealing and provided credence to their initial statement that they improved the graphics as a response to them cutting the National Dex.
 
Jun 2, 2019
4,947
Inept and incompetent are not adjectives you use for a team that has successfully released 7 generations of a series without doing a Level 5

Come on now
 

Galkinator

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,947
Can we stop this? It's not only half. Gear Project didn't gut half of Game Freak and there are people who work on both too. Plus, GEAR PROJECT HAS EXISTED SINCE 2010.

Also, Sun & Moon had over 500 people work on it, so for god's sake stop pushing this fake narrative

Creatures Inc. do the bulk of the models and animation for Pokémon games, yes. Game Freak outsource it to them.
That's why I said "if what's said there is true".
And according to this interview, Sun&Moon had a team of 120 (as said by Masuda himself). Sounds fine for a 3DS game, but for a Switch game it's a whole different league.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,752
Inept and incompetent are not adjectives you use for a team that has successfully released 7 generations of a series without doing a Level 5

Come on now
Half-full/half-empty and all that.

This makes me more curious about Sword and Shield-if Gamefreak had to recreate all of these models from scratch, then why didn't they take this opportunity to change Pokemon's artstyle? It would have made this game look far more appealing and provided credence to their initial statement that they improved the graphics as a response to them cutting the National Dex.

Up-ending the visual presentation is going to be a lot of work, and updating the models from reference is way easier than just starting on brand new ones. If they really did, we'd probably be looking at a much smaller dex. Pokémon is a well oiled machine and evidently this looked to be the figurative spanner in the works.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,117
I don't really think that Redditor knows how game dev works. Pokémon, like most other development studios, gets a whole lot of work done through outsourcing. The number of people involved with Sword & Shield is guaranteed to be way more than just 143 people, and it doesn't really behoove a studio like Game Freak to expand when their output outside of just Pokémon is limited in scale.
Game Freak has been expanding. They even own subsidiaries

The 143 staff is just full-time and contracted staff. It doesn't count freelancers (of which there are many), interns, temporary staff and so forth. It also doesn't count those that work in their subsidiaries

As listed in their site, listing only full time and contracted

In April 2012, they had 90 staff
In April 2014, they had 73 staff
In April 2015, they had 81 staff
In April 2016, they had 108 staff
In April 2017, they had 118 staff
In April 2018 they had 143 staff

They are expanding, and don't forget that staff numbers are irrelevant. I keep seeing people say that in regards to the animations. How would a scenario writer help with that?

This makes me more curious about Sword and Shield-if Gamefreak had to recreate all of these models from scratch, then why didn't they take this opportunity to change Pokemon's artstyle? It would have made this game look far more appealing and provided credence to their initial statement that they improved the graphics as a response to them cutting the National Dex.
Maybe they like this art style?

That's why I said "if what's said there is true".
And according to this interview, Sun&Moon had a team of 120 (as said by Masuda himself). Sounds fine for a 3DS game, but for a Switch game it's a whole different league.
Well 500 individual people are listed in the credits...
 
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