"I only want to date cishet women, that's my sexual orientation, but I don't determine what freedom from discrimination people should get according to whether I want to date them, and think everyone deserves respect and being treated reasonably".
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New Research Shows a Vast Majority of Cis People Won't Date Trans People
- Thread starter Robin
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I have an easy way to phrase it
You like women on the more feminine scale.
Like, yeah. A lot of it is just education because I'm willing to bet most people don't even know if they've met a trans person (they probably have w/o realizing it). Like, sex ed especially with LBGTQ+ topics is so bad. It's getting better in some aspects, but ignorance is still everywhere.
I mean you don't directly stick it in the urethra but it exits the vagina doesn't it? And it gets all over the vagina too.
Atleast in a trans-woman the piss won't get all over their vagina since they'll have a small penis to direct away their piss or does it?
As a trans woman, who has seen this happen in various threads countless times, it's not surprising in the least. Hit the report button and move on. These guys often aren't worth our time.
This is something I didn't need to see in an already crappy day. I already knew that I was unloved because I'm trans, so much so that I was willing to do anything to make sure a previous boyfriend didn't leave me. It led to a violently abusive relationship in the past because if it wasn't him, who else would love me. I'm thankfully with a loving partner now, but many of the comments made here brought back some those old feelings, unfortunately. :/
If I was the one taking the survey, preop vs postop would have been the difference between yes and no for me.
I think the numbers would have changed quite a bit.
Do you think 97% of people saying "hard pass" is being treated "reasonably"?
I'll have you know I have a distinct preference for individuals that still have their their wisdom teeth! Because um... evolution or mating or something DNA children.
I remember reading an article a while ago about transgender people dating that mentioned that, for the most part, they don't have much trouble finding people willing to date them. Instead the issue is that people who date transgender people tend to not want people to know that they're dating someone who is trans and will hide the relationship.
This seems like something I need to be better educated about.
Because I'll admit I've never not noticed a feature or two. So now I'm curious exactly how well is "done well".
You should consider that trans people probably don't need or want to be told they aren't normal.
Because almost nobody wants to be told that. It's inconsiderate.
You're going to get a lot of 'lol no that's gay'
Straight men have a mighty need to signal that they're SUPER straight and totally never kissed a guy while drunk in college
Yeah, fair enough. It just always manages to catch me by surprise when it's not the exact same people every time; but one's who have been present in other threads without saying stupid shit.
You can x-ray my mouth to verify my wisdom teeth any time. ;)
Depends what you mean by hard pass. Politely declining romantic advances from someone because you are not interested in them romantically is something that reasonable people do all the time. Hostile, threatening or dehumanising reactions would obviously be awful and discrimination, but a polite "no thanks" is not.
Wouldn't the implication be that they would eventually get the surgery at some point? That could cause complications, but otherwise I don't think most people would have an issue as long as they found the person attractive.
Please don't feel sorry! It stings to read through the article and this thread, like even a little bit, but I think threads like these are rather important for trans acceptance.
I appreciate the kind words and I definitely have hope that future generations will have it better. It's important to remember that we're not just fighting for the trans lives of today, but the trans lives of tomorrow as well.
lol you have no idea what happens to a transman's clitoris on tesosterone, do you?
I don't see why this is outrageous, people have preference, I'm a heterosexual male who is only interested in Women, and yet I still accept Gay/Trans people, people should live their life the way they choose to, and this should involve the type of people they're interested in.
Nah. This is still very informative regardless (especially combined with threads like this one). Because if, for whatever reason people may have, just assume "pre-op" when they see the word "transgender" and nope the fuck out of there because people refuse to date pre-op trans men and women, what hope do post-op trans men and women have? Why is it exactly that when not specified that so many people would assume pre-op in this situation? Why make an assumption at all? Why not assume post-op? And even if one assumes pre-op, why does that really matter in the end one way or the other since that's just a fleeting state?
It'a the answers to questions like those that are revealing to me (which unfortunately comes down to most people seeing transgender individuals as, and forgive me for even mentioning this word, "traps" and don't give them the time of day. You just don't get percentages like those otherwise).
Like even if someone is post-op, would they even get a chance to say so? And even if they do, would most people actually believe them or care at all? Or would they still just nope the fuck out of there because of myths of all transgender individuals just being evil people trying to trick them, and just the slightest, most remote possibility that they're lying and that they're actually pre-op would be enough to call the whole thing off?
Because again, looking at those numbers and putting them in the context of this thread and what most of the replies are automatically assuming when they see the word transgender (which, no, you can't blame on the study because, let's be real here for a moment: most people probably haven't actually even read the study or even probably the OP, as is the case in most threads) is rather revealing, unfortunately. People just seem to be seeing the word "transgender" automatically assuming "pre-op" and just getting out of there before they even give this hypothetical transgender individual the time to explain. Doesn't really matter if you're post-op if you never get a chance to say it, or if you do but people don't believe you. =/
That, and another thought occurs to me reading this thread, seeing all the people talking about the right bits and pieces and whether this person is pre-op or post-op and all that. For the heterosexual men that feel that way and would only be willing to date a post-op transwoman, question: would you be willing to date a pre-op trans-man in that case? Because that person would have all the right bits and pieces, right? Or would the person's mind and the fact that he considers himself (and is) a man put you off, despite not having the biological parts of one?
Yeah, I grew up in cities that were considered pretty LGBTQ+ friendly like San Francisco and Atlanta, but I didn't learn anything about trans people until I made a couple of trans friends when I studied abroad. So I can understand that a lot of people are still really ignorant about those topics. It was pretty cool when I was in Thailand because I was able to meet trans people in a pretty open environment where no-one had to be uncomfortable with talking about it.
Sadly.
I could see a situation where people wouldn't even be thinking about post-op people unless the survey specified it.
Because she's disqualifying billions of potential partners on the basis of skin tone, and not anything substantial to long term relationships like personality? Or hell, even basic physical attraction like body proportions, facial structure, and prominence of secondary sexual characteristics?
I categorically reject the notion that a human being can find unattractive literally every person with skin of a certain shade. That is fucking absurd. That's like saying you can never love a flat-chested girl, or that men shorter than you are unloveable. Anyone who prescribes to these ideas is an asshole at best, and more than likely a bigot.
i don't know if it's a majority but things like this and miscarriages end relationships all the time. Relationships are hard enough as it is and losing the possibility of kids can absolutely destroy them.
The only overly broad generalizations that are harmful in this discussion are the exact ones I was denouncing in that post. When, as a straight man, a person proudly claims, "I will never date a trans woman", that person is without a shadow of a doubt displaying bigoted behavior. That person isn't giving any thought to the fact that each woman is an individual with their own traits. Only prejudice fuels those types of thoughts.
The "valid reasons unrelated to hatred" you mentioned aren't really valid reasons for saying something like the above at all. People who care deeply about having biological children have had and do have relationships with partners who are sterile. People have had to and do renounce their religious vows to stay with someone they love.
People go on with their lives while being open to changing their minds about stuff like that, and those are things that happen all the time.
When people preemptively and willingly distance themselves from those possibilities when it comes to trans or black women, for example, they're acting out of prejudice, pure and simple.
I'm not a dude and don't know what my label is on the sexuality spectrum but yeah. Vaginas are hot. I struggle to understand why people don't get this.
Funny thing my friend and I where talking about this a couple weeks ago and he surprisingly said he's absolutely open to the idea if he's attracted to the person, I'd be ok as long as I'm attracted also.
I wouldn't find them attractive as they are a man, post or pre-op. I don't identify exactly with the because I like vaginas deal, I'm just straight. It's not just about the vagina for me, but that's definitely a big part of it.
Absolutely! My daughter will be educated to treat trans folk as equals and I won't ignore the history of trans people.
Less than a third of trans people get physical alterations to their genitals. And even within that number "surgery" is a wide array of areas, and complete genital alteration is even a lower percentage.
Lots of trans people feel completely comfortable with their genitals
Because pre-op is the vast majority. Should I not assume most people in Scandinavia are tall. And the article already answered your question about pre-op individuals.
Yeah then that's an easy yes. The scenario in the survey is that you're attracted to the person already, so that's a no brainer.
No. Along with the vagina comes feminine qualities that straight men are attracted to. Maybe not all straight men, but myself and others that I know. If I have trans man, he is now speaking in a not so feminine voice, and not having the feminine actions that I find attractive.
A woman to me is a full package. Their attitudes, genitalia, soothing voice, pretty hair, etc...If my soon to be wife acted and sounded like a man, I wouldn't be with her right now as I wouldn't have found her attractive.
This is why I keep saying that talking down to people for their secual preference is disgusting. I didn't talk down to my coworker that said I was the wrong color for her. Why would I do that? I'm not her preference, and that is ok. There are many different sexual preferences out there, and all of them are A OK in my book.
This isn't that weird. I'm 100% supportive and accepting of any sexual or gender orientation, but I don't think I could date a woman who's biologically a man. Or are we not talking about that? Part of dating someone has to do with sex, and that's all biology. I'm not attracted to male biology. That doesn't make me close-minded, it just makes me straight. Cause we're not taking about people who have had a sex change, or are we...?
I'm not sure it's "outrageous." Unfortunate, absolutely. In an ideal world gender confirmation surgery would be advanced enough to allow any person to pass as their experienced gender. It's conceivable that we'll get there within this century if medical advances aren't derailed by social and political nonsense and/or environmental catastrophe.
In the meantime it's important to approach the subjects of transition and sexual attraction with sympathy and understanding. Most people want nothing more than to be desired and appreciated for who they are. Who likes judgment and rejection? If some trans people don't do it for you, or you can't get over a personal mental hurdle, just try not to be a jerk.
A lot of this prickly business can be solved with dialog. Talk with people who have insight that you don't, or at the very least, consider reading or listening to an account of their experiences.
In the meantime it's important to approach the subjects of transition and sexual attraction with sympathy and understanding. Most people want nothing more than to be desired and appreciated for who they are. Who likes judgment and rejection? If some trans people don't do it for you, or you can't get over a personal mental hurdle, just try not to be a jerk.
A lot of this prickly business can be solved with dialog. Talk with people who have insight that you don't, or at the very least, consider reading or listening to an account of their experiences.
I didn't until you said that and I googled it. Meh. I could deal.
Keep posting facts like this and some people might actually learn that someone choosing to physically transition isn't just having one distinct operation and that's it.
This so much. My sexual preference dictates to me I'm into other straight ciswomen but I would never stop a transperson from, say, being hired or providing a service to. Who I sleep with is my choice as is theirs. Do I have to be willing to date one for me to not be discriminatory? I dont think so.
I have nothing against any member of the trans community but who I want to sleep with is my business.
Does this apply to all traits a person finds attractive or unattractive? There are a vast number of traits not under a person's control that another might find attractive or not. Things like height or breast size or personality or how long their legs are or how muscular they are or if they wear glasses, etc, etc. Would anyone claiming they are not attracted to people because of any of those particular traits also be bigoted?
Yeah, but then they'd stop being ignorant. And we can't have that now, can we?
As a gay man I could see myself dating a trans person if the overall physique was male enough to get by as that is what attracts me more than genitalia. Hell genitalia wouldn't even matter that much to me at all.
What opened up my mind was some smut I stumbled across of a guy/girl (no context so unsure of desired classification) with female genitalia and a very male physique and I honestly found it fucking hot. I assume this was a male -> female mid transition, but I could be wrong.
I am not exactly sure how female -> male end stage would work in bed, but I am not against it in principle if the physique is right.
TBH I think they were getting at that they themselves see trans women as women, but their penises don't (not saying that this isn't a problem, but imo it isn't the same as bigotry).
At least that was my take from the post.
What opened up my mind was some smut I stumbled across of a guy/girl (no context so unsure of desired classification) with female genitalia and a very male physique and I honestly found it fucking hot. I assume this was a male -> female mid transition, but I could be wrong.
I am not exactly sure how female -> male end stage would work in bed, but I am not against it in principle if the physique is right.
Man this is hard to explain.
TBH I think they were getting at that they themselves see trans women as women, but their penises don't (not saying that this isn't a problem, but imo it isn't the same as bigotry).
At least that was my take from the post.
Im getting married soon and you bet your ass I want to have my own children with my fiancé. Adoption has always been an option only if, God forbid, we're unable to have our own. Of course this is important for many couples. My gf yearns to go through a pregnancy and become a mom from a kid she procreated with me. Its incredibly important for her this, much more than it already is for me.
I think people know this. That's probably what turns a lot of them away.
I've been able to tell many times if someone was trans while their pants were on.
And appendix has nothing to do with intimacy so there's a huge difference lol.
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