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  1. TheBeardedOne

    TheBeardedOne
    Member

    Dating generally means attraction and the potential for a sexual relationship. Friendship is different.
     
  2. Visanideth

    Visanideth
    Member

    Let's be clear here: you're saying that not being willing to date a trans woman as a cis man/gay man or a trans man as a cis/gay woman on the premise that he/she's trans is transphobia? I got that right?
     
  3. Yasuke

    Yasuke
    Member

    Of course dicks and vaginas don’t come up; those surveys are about what they find attractive on the opposite sex lol implying said person has the opposite genitalia.
     
    • User banned (1 week): Thread-complaining in a thread concerning discrimination
    Can I ask what the purpose of the thread was? Like, what would be the spectrum of acceptable opinion in this thread without risking being banned or suspended?

    Does the OP realise that posting a thread as a mod has an immediate chilling effect on people that might want to express an opinion but feel unable to do so.

    And for a lot of them, that might be the correct way, to make sure they take stock and ponder what they actually mean before offering something.

    But it also means that people cant understand why their position might be wrong, worrisome, transphobic or problematic.

    So far, the pathway to not get banned is to say "I only date people I can have children with".

    Was this a genuine attempt to challenge conventional views?
     
  4. TheLostBigBoss

    TheLostBigBoss
    One day my GVT will be worth millions Member

    Let me counter by asking do you consider trans women to be women and trans men to be men?

    Because my answer is pretty obvious depending on how you answer that question.
     
  5. Enzo Lebold

    Enzo Lebold
    Member

    It appears to be bannable to express that you view a person as something as which that person doesn't view itself.
     
  6. PaddingtonDidntDoIt

    PaddingtonDidntDoIt
    Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account Member

    What are the stats on Trans people dating gay people?
    For example, Trans men dating gay men or trans women dating lesbian women?
     
  7. Rayne

    Rayne
    Member

    Yes that's what I was trying to get at. Long as that discrimination doesn't leave that arena I don't see an issue. No one's obligated for people to find them dateable.
     
  8. GenericVillainName

    GenericVillainName
    Banned Member

    Maybe im wrong but this person pretty much said that and nothing else

     
  9. BDS

    BDS
    Member

    Don't worry, despite dozens of people posting horrifically transphobic rhetoric throughout this thread, only a couple have been banned.
     
  10. Skelepuzzle

    Skelepuzzle
    Member

    ...they conflated being trans with two cultural pejoratives. It was clearly meant to be insulting and not an explanation on how people can be attractive despite certain attributes that society may look down on as a tendency.
     
  11. Protome

    Protome
    Member

    I’d be interested in seeing how this has changed and continues to change over time. You would hope that low number in the OP is at the very least a little higher than it would have been in previous years. Still disappointing to see though.

    No, it’s just bannable to say trans women aren’t women and trans men aren’t men. Which is a pretty reasonable thing to ban people for.
     
  12. MarineMountie

    MarineMountie
    Member

    Starting to wonder the same thing. I say I don't want to date or sleep with someone with a penis and suddenly I'm a bigot that needs to fix my way of thinking, and I'm being accuses of saying transpeople aren't what they identify as by a mod.

    Most hostile forum I visit, that's for sure.
     
  13. Yasuke

    Yasuke
    Member

    Nah, this isn’t it.

    There’s something to be said about people not being open enough to date someone because they were born as something other than what they are at present. That likely points to some type of prejudice.

    But not being down with dating someone who currently does not have the sexual organ you yourself like to play with ain’t it. I don’t like penises, no matter who they’re attached to.

    I don’t think anyone would seriously argue your preferred sex makes you bigoted.
     
  14. Aang's_Bae

    Aang's_Bae
    Member

    29 percent for cis lesbians according to the article and 11 something for gay cis dudes. Even fifty percent of non-cis people said no to other non-cis but no one seems to want to discuss that.

    Look at the op for the direct quote. Can’t post it for some reason.
     
  15. Yoshi

    Yoshi
    Member

    Sorry, but what is the context here? Beating someone up for not disclosing their sex before intercourse is in some way comparable to unfriendly comments towards an unhealthy lifestyle?
     
  16. Cas

    Cas
    Member

    I don't believe trans male surgery is advanced enough to fully construct a working male penis yet, so that would be a major obstacle for me personally. Maybe once science catches up enough more people would be on board.
     
  17. dragonlife

    dragonlife
    Member

    I'm not trying to bash you, man. The fact that you're still thinking you're not saying anything hateful is telling, though. If I'm sounding condescending, that was definitely not my intent, either, but it's hard to decipher when you're heated and reading text.

    I'm not building a funeral pyre for you for anything you've said, but I'll leave you to your views. I'll take my drivel with me, but I'm not getting the fuck outta here.
     
  18. IceBringer

    IceBringer
    Member

    You really don’t see anything wrong with that post?
     
  19. Robin

    Robin
    Restless Insomniac Moderator OP

    Those transpeople are wrong too. I'm happy to talk about it.
     
  20. TheBeardedOne

    TheBeardedOne
    Member

    Yeah, people who say no are being demonized for not wanting to sleep with someone who was the same sex (and perhaps currently has the same genitalia or at least once did), or someone who is wanting to become the same sex.

    It's not like people pick who they're attracted to.

    I'm all for trans rights, but I have the right to my own sex life too, just like anyone else does or at least should. Not that I have much of a sex life.
     
  21. Persephone

    Persephone
    Member

    Sounds like you're demisexual breh

    ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm
     
  22. GenericVillainName

    GenericVillainName
    Banned Member

    Yeah , most people in this thread have pretty much said the same thing but have added context to it , i dont want to derail or anything so ill just report it , but i dont see that as something to be banned over.
     
  23. I mean they're clearly using trans as a pejorative. I don't think that post was remotely constructive in any way.

    If it was bannable to say you wouldn't date a trans person then apparently 97% of straight people wouldn't be welcome here.
     
  24. AztecComplex

    AztecComplex
    Member

    How different is questioning straight guys about them preferring ciswomen because of their genital preferences from questioning gay men for choosing penises and ignoring vaginas? Not much different, in my opinion.

    Sexual preference is not the same as being discriminatory.
     
  25. Aang's_Bae

    Aang's_Bae
    Member

    It kinda is but it’s hyper complicated and the results aren’t the prettiest from the super post op pics I’ve seen.
    Why do so many so when they’re already on the outs with society. Self-hate is strong in the black community but not this strong.
     
  26. PaddingtonDidntDoIt

    PaddingtonDidntDoIt
    Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account Member

    So 50% of trans people said they don't want to date other trans people? Am I getting this right??
     
  27. Aang's_Bae

    Aang's_Bae
    Member

    Yep. I was kinda blown away too. Also non-binary individuals said no too.
     
  28. TheLostBigBoss

    TheLostBigBoss
    One day my GVT will be worth millions Member

    Non CIS != Trans
     
  29. Robin

    Robin
    Restless Insomniac Moderator OP

    That's what it says, which is quite upsetting if true. I raised an eyebrow for sure, but internalized transphobia is totes a problem within the community, just shocked to see the number that high.
     
  30. The Wraith

    The Wraith
    Member

    A person's sexual preference is their own. Im not going to judge someone for not wanting to date a transexual person, just like I won't judge someone for dating a transsexual person. It comes down to the persons preference. I'm a cis straight male and I have no interests in dating a transsexual woman. I dont have anything against them but I prefer cis straight women.
     
  31. Lurcharound

    Lurcharound
    Member

    What people note as being 'attractive' I find one of the least trustworthy elements of such studies. Not that I'm saying they're all thinking 'dicks and vaginas' secretly but it's been shown multiple times there's a big gulf between noted - what the person thinks intellectually - in such studies and what they do in real life which can vary wildly. Dating is minefield of desires, ideals, social conditioning and norms and spur of the moment madness. Putting it in a survey and drawing conclusions has always led to conflicting results.

    My point is more on the relationship of dating/attraction to social acceptance which I don't think is useful focus given all the uncertainties in dating/attraction in the first place. Not only that but there's a huge gulf in attainment between getting trans-gender individuals equal treatment and making majority of others date them. Who anybody dates is inherently impossible to dictate (well without a social structure you really wouldn't want anyway). I'd focus energies on more urgent social and professional issues with discrimination of trans individuals myself.
     
  32. Zoc

    Zoc
    Member

    This is arguing in bad faith, dude has obviously had surgery/hormones.
     
  33. TheBeardedOne

    TheBeardedOne
    Member

    .
     
  34. TheLostBigBoss

    TheLostBigBoss
    One day my GVT will be worth millions Member

    Most trans people who are out take hormones.
     
  35. Cas

    Cas
    Member

    Good to hear they're working on it, but yeah.

    Huh. Now that's interesting.
     
  36. MegaBeefBowl

    MegaBeefBowl
    Member

    This seems like a bad study, but even if it wasn't so broad I'm sure the numbers would still be embarrassing.

    I think society has long forged the penis as a masculine thing, and I wouldn't want to engage sexually with another penis because of that masculine connection.
    If a trans woman is post-op, she's no different from a cis woman sexually speaking, and wouldn't be excluded from my potential dating pool.
    I assume, however, I'd be labeled as a "No" on this study because of that stance.

    Even that stance is a tiny group of people, and it's a shame, but I have no idea how that mindset shifts besides time.

    That's a shocker.
     
  37. Yoshi

    Yoshi
    Member

    I think this is a bit difficult though in the following sense: If a woman is sterile, yet has not tried getting children yet, there is likely no way of you or her knowing that she is sterile when you start dating. If then, years later, it comes out that she is sterile, it's not a matter of deciding whether to date anymore, but a matter of deciding whether you stand by your partner after loving the partner for many years and having formed a partnership already. As important as reproduction is for me, if my wife had turned out sterile, I would definitely not have left her for that.

    Now, on the other hand, this poll makes the assumption you are aware a potential partner is transsexual, because if you are unaware of it, the question whether you'd date the person is certainly stupid. Now, if you are aware that a person is trans and does not have the right sex for you to be able to get children with the person, then this is a valid reason not to want to date the person as to not to start a relationship with someone you know in advance will not be able to get children. In a sense, we are experiencing here a shift from a "me" perspective (person deciding on who to date) to a "we" perspective (persons already in an established relationship). Of course, this is potentially less of an issue with matching sex but incongruent gender, depending on whether the potential partner plans on having any procedures done.
     
  38. TheBeardedOne

    TheBeardedOne
    Member

    It's only fair for the other person to be made aware, though.
     
  39. Aang's_Bae

    Aang's_Bae
    Member

    Shouldn’t non-binary people have even less reason to say no due to the absolute metric ton of shit they face?
     
  40. Heisenberg726

    Heisenberg726
    Member

    Best post of the thread here. I agree completely.
     
  41. It's weird that is being considered "outrageous".
     
  42. Eduardo Corrochio

    Eduardo Corrochio
    Banned Member

    I think it's a bit odd that people who have been claiming that they have no control over their own sexual preferences are now raising eyebrows at the sexual preferences of those 50% of trans folk.

    Can't have it both ways.
     
  43. Visanideth

    Visanideth
    Member


    I consider trans women to be women and trans men to be men.
     
  44. TheLostBigBoss

    TheLostBigBoss
    One day my GVT will be worth millions Member

    I really love how people have completely twisted the thread into little sub arguments and excuses, when really the main issue is people, full stop, won't date a trans person simply because they are trans.

    And we have people in this thread being open and honest with that, and then being applauded by other members like they are brave for saying how they marginalize a marginalized group of people.
     
  45. Zoc

    Zoc
    Member

    Sure, I know. This whole topic is about whether straight cismen who aren't attracted to transwomen are bigoted. I'm presenting an argument that they aren't, because sexuality is about bodies, not minds. So, logically, cismen would be more likely to be attracted to transmen than transwomen. Now, personally I fall into that camp, although we've had a few replies to the contrary already. I think nobody has really asked this question directly, and I think it's worth asking. The article in the OP provides some evidence to back me up:

    "Surprisingly, among the 127 participants open to dating a trans person, almost half selected a trans person of a gender incongruent with their stated sexual orientation. For example, 50% of the trans-inclusive straight women and 28% of the trans-inclusive gay men were willing to date a trans woman, even though one wouldn’t expect either straight women or gay men to be attracted to women. Similarly, 50% of trans-inclusive straight men and 69% of trans-inclusive lesbians said they’d date a trans man, even though both groups are presumably only attracted to women."

    This is going to be a very difficult question to answer, because I'm sure exceedingly few people have ever thought about it, and even those who do so now will be deeply wrapped up in existing prejudices. Also, the attraction of cismen to transmen is likely to exist on a continuum with a sharp dropoff at some point. Lots of dude are into tomboys or mannish women, fewer are going to be into that ripped hairy dude a few posts up.
     
  46. Aiii

    Aiii
    何これ Moderator

    This thread has run its course.

    We will be looking into some of the posts and see if further action is required.
     
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