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AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,082
I'm talking about Capcom. I know Konami owns the license, but the screenshots Dusk Golem posted earlier this year reminded me of the REngine so...
I think the chances of Capcom having anything to do with a Silent Hill game is very close to 0. I'm not even sure that they are open to licensing the RE Engine to anyone at all.

Did I do something wrong? I'm new here so I apologize
Nothing wrong no. It's just a weird question is all lol. Don't sweat it.
 

Masagiwa

Member
Jan 27, 2018
9,902
Did I do something wrong? I'm new here so I apologize
No, but Capcom being involved in this is almost at a 0% they have their own survival horror franchises they promote why would they take on the development of a Silent Hill title which is owned by Konami? They aren't exactly a mercenary dev
 

Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,452
Jesus christ stop bumping this thread unless there's new info smh
No. How about y'all stop yelling at people for talking on a forum.

Like, seriously, people need to stop complaining about threads being bumped for reasons other than "info". This isn't a news website, it's a forum, we're not here to be your RSS feed. If we want to discuss the leaks and speculate about the potential future of this project and the leaks surrounding it, why can't we? If you don't want to engage in that then unfollow or mute the thread. You can get your "new info" in a thousand places.
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
No. How about y'all stop yelling at people for talking on a forum.

Like, seriously, people need to stop complaining about threads being bumped for reasons other than "info". This isn't a news website, it's a forum, we're not here to be your RSS feed. If we want to discuss the leaks and speculate about the potential future of this project and the leaks surrounding it, why can't we? If you don't want to engage in that then unfollow or mute the thread. You can get your "new info" in a thousand places.
👆🏾
 

TheJollyCorner

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
9,475
No. How about y'all stop yelling at people for talking on a forum.

Like, seriously, people need to stop complaining about threads being bumped for reasons other than "info". This isn't a news website, it's a forum, we're not here to be your RSS feed. If we want to discuss the leaks and speculate about the potential future of this project and the leaks surrounding it, why can't we? If you don't want to engage in that then unfollow or mute the thread. You can get your "new info" in a thousand places.

Well said.
Goddamn the fuckin meanness of this forum sometimes can be really frustrating.
 

Darkknight2149

Ban made permanent due to harassment of staff
Banned
May 27, 2020
6,398
Masahiro Ito confirming his 2020 game is still in development + leaked screenshots from that game getting DMCA'd by Konami + Christophe Gans' own statement are legitimately the smoking guns. I fully believe the people still doubting "the rumours" are the ones twisting themselves into pretzels at this point.

That being said, I wish people would stop falling for every single rumour no matter how stupid and building themselves up for every event. No one promised an announcement at Summer Games Fest and it was obviously going to be Layers of Fear anyway. Blue Box Game Studios got way more attention than it deserves, given that it's literally an established company with a several-years track record of pulling the same stunt multiple times. A lot of fans on other sites massively fell for that fake af "July 12" teaser and then got angry + whined about all of the rumours being "fake" because of it. Even now, some sites are reporting on Dusk Golem's speculation as a legitimate rumour for clicks (I saw some people on Twitter taking the bait too), which probably isn't going to end well. This has been a nonstop cyclical phenomenon since 2020.

I want it to be announced as much as the next guy, but people need to do a better job distinguishing between reliable reports, ridiculous rumours (a badly CGI'd "sHaRe HoLdErS tEaSeR" that someone pulled from a random forum on a Japanese site is not a fucking reliable source, people), and speculation, and fans need to stop fully hyping themselves up for every event in sight. Games take forever to develop and it might not even get announced until 2023 for all we know. Keep an eye out and keep your enthusiasm, but don't expect a reveal tomorrow.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,416
I really hope and pray that Masahiro Ito's game is well praised, even universally, and that he gets the recognition he truly deserves, and that he has a long and happy life.
 

Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,452
Yeah, so many years of cancelled titles. He knows he has a lot of fans but it's clear he's been discouraged for a long time. I hope this is the one to bring him back in a big way.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,741
There's plenty of smoke at least, but I still don't think Christophe Gans knows shit about any in-development games.
 

Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,452
There's plenty of smoke at least, but I still don't think Christophe Gans knows shit about any in-development games.
I'll go a step further, I think Christophe Gans is never going to make another Silent Hill movie. I believe he wrote a script. I don't believe it's ever going into production. I understand there's some weird circumstance where he might have the rights to make one due to someone he knows but he'd still need to get a studio involved for the type of film it'd need to be. He shouldn't have claimed to have it coming because for years at this point SH fans have been saying "and another movie is being made", like it's filming right now or something.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,741
I'll go a step further, I think Christophe Gans is never going to make another Silent Hill movie. I believe he wrote a script. I don't believe it's ever going into production. I understand there's some weird circumstance where he might have the rights to make one due to someone he knows but he'd still need to get a studio involved for the type of film it'd need to be. He shouldn't have claimed to have it coming because for years at this point SH fans have been saying "and another movie is being made", like it's filming right now or something.

That sounds right to me. This "it's in production, it's in production!" talk really...doesn't actually make sense. The Metal Gear Solid movie is deeper "in production" than anything Gans is working on, and it isn't even being made right now. Film directors love to talk about prospective future projects like they're done deals, but if this was actually anywhere near production it would've actually been announced. The film industry doesn't work on surprise time like the gaming industry.
 

Darkknight2149

Ban made permanent due to harassment of staff
Banned
May 27, 2020
6,398
PlanetSmasher

Ashes of Dreams

Has Christophe Gans lied that brazenly before? The closest thing I know of is when he said Neil Gaiman was co-writing Silent Hill 2 with Roger Avary.

www.gamespot.com

<i>Silent Hill 2</i> movie confirmed

[UPDATE] French director Christophe Gans tells magazine <i>DVDrama</i> that the movie is "well underway," though there's confusion over Neil Gaiman's possible contribution.

indeterminacy

Heigh ho. Miles away from working internet, and the one time I try and get online I discover that Blogger has now updated itself out of Beta...

(A Neil Gaiman Silent Hill story would be pretty sweet, though)
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,741
PlanetSmasher

Ashes of Dreams

Has Christophe Gans lied that brazenly before? The closest thing I know of is when he said Neil Gaiman was co-writing Silent Hill 2 with Roger Avary.

www.gamespot.com

<i>Silent Hill 2</i> movie confirmed

[UPDATE] French director Christophe Gans tells magazine <i>DVDrama</i> that the movie is "well underway," though there's confusion over Neil Gaiman's possible contribution.

indeterminacy

Heigh ho. Miles away from working internet, and the one time I try and get online I discover that Blogger has now updated itself out of Beta...

(A Neil Gaiman Silent Hill story would be pretty sweet, though)

He can say all he wants, but we have no production company, no casting announcements, no filming announcements, nothing. The film industry isn't like video games. Movies don't get made in total secret and then just come out. Even direct to video junk gets announced in advance.

He could very easily be wishful-thinking about a project he wants to make, or a script he's actually written, or a script he started to write. But there's absolutely zero indication beyond his own word that this project is anywhere close to being a real thing. Like I said, even the MGS movie is further along than that and the MGS movie is barely an idea in Jordan Vogt-Roberts' brain.
 

Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,452
I mean he said he was adapting SH1 into a movie once. ;)

Like I said, I'm sure he's written a script. But what he wants to happen and what's actually going to happen are two different things and the way he's worded things so directly is pretty misleading to the actual situation given there's been no ACTUAL movement on such a project from a production point of view.
 

BitterRoot

Member
Jul 4, 2022
211
This rumor have been around for so much time, hyped about, that I think if any Silent Hill game ever comes out, it will never deliver to the public expectation.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,741
I don't think any "very surprising creatives" can save a Bloober Team game. They simply don't have the X-factor.
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
17,480
I don't think any "very surprising creatives" can save a Bloober Team game. They simply don't have the X-factor.

Well that's why you get that help.

Plenty of studios have grown and become better. And they do this by hiring and working with talent and experience. Naughty Dog made mediocre forgetful stuff for years. It's not entirely impossible that Blooper can make a good Silent Hill game.
 

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,854
Well that's why you get that help.

Plenty of studios have grown and become better. And they do this by hiring and working with talent and experience. Naughty Dog made mediocre forgetful stuff for years. It's not entirely impossible that Blooper can make a good Silent Hill game.

The Naughty Dog that was mediocre stuff wasn't suddenly handed the keys to one of the most beloved IP though.
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
17,480
The Naughty Dog that was mediocre stuff wasn't suddenly handed the keys to one of the most beloved IP though.

No but my point is studios can grow and prosper. And Blooper games have been okay. Not great but not total shit fest either. Although that is my opinion so people may see differently :p regardless, they aren't changing genres. With some talent that knows the series well, they could do better,

I guess to some extent I remain a little optimistic until we at least see it.
 

Beelzebufo

Member
Jun 1, 2022
4,025
Canada
Well that's why you get that help.

Plenty of studios have grown and become better. And they do this by hiring and working with talent and experience. Naughty Dog made mediocre forgetful stuff for years. It's not entirely impossible that Blooper can make a good Silent Hill game.

To be fair, Bloober doesn't make terrible video games, they write terrible stories with awful handling of delicate subject matter, which is what worries people the most when they're brought up in Silent Hill conversation. Making a better video game is one thing, but if their people are writing the story then we're gonna have to pray they underwent some massive change in the way they think.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
Bloober is in a position to me that I think they have potential to be a great horror game studio. I think they have really talented people, especially in the graphical, animation & audio department. But what's holding them back is not the talent of their teams technically, but the creative directions and story choices they choose to do with certain projects.

I do know a decent bit about the Bloober Team Silent Hill project at this stage (and mentioning one of the SH games is a Bloober game I don't think is much of a leak at this stage; after Konami & Bloober announced publicly their partnership on working together on game stuff, I think it's been pretty obvious that was in relation to a SH game). I'll just say it's the project I'm the most apprehensive of, but I don't hate what I've heard & seen about it, it looks good, & I even think on paper it sounds good, but obviously it'll all come down to execution. My hope is they've learned from past mistakes and some of the other people on the project will be able to help realize it the best it can be. But visually and on paper, I like the project, just the one I'm most apprehensive of at this point for a few reasons. But I'm cautiously optimistic all the same, not as much as the other two projects, but I'm open to giving them a chance (though if they screw this up, I think their reputation will forever be smeared by the horror game community, so good luck Bloober).

I guess it's also worth mentioning their project at this point in time is the one I'm most apprehensive of, but I could see it turning out good, it just depends on them executing it well really. But the other two projects I'm just personally more excited and optimistic for at this point in time. I'm just ready for this stuff to start getting revealed hopefully soon so we get past the pre-announcement stage and can more openly talking about things. For many they still are in doubt these projects even exist, so it'll be nice to get past the doubt phase and get to the phase of rampant speculation about the projects from however they decide to publicly present them in question.
 
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Darkknight2149

Ban made permanent due to harassment of staff
Banned
May 27, 2020
6,398
Well that's why you get that help.

Plenty of studios have grown and become better. And they do this by hiring and working with talent and experience. Naughty Dog made mediocre forgetful stuff for years. It's not entirely impossible that Blooper can make a good Silent Hill game.
Whatever they're working on, it better not be a remake of the originals (especially Silent Hill 2). It doesn't matter who's helping them at that point. The only people who could pull that off is Team Silent and they're not around anymore.

The thing is Bloober's biggest weaknesses as creatives align with Silent Hill's biggest strengths as a series, so it's weird that Konami would hire them at all. Hopefully they're working on a spin-off or something.

It isn't just Bloober's writing that's flawed, it's their design choices, their attempts at horror, their lack of originality, their handling of serious topics. They're the opposite of who most people would want involved with a series like this.

Bloober is in a position to me that I think they have potential to be a great horror game studio. I think they have really talented people, especially in the graphical, animation & audio department. But what's holding them back is not the talent of their teams technically, but the creative directions and story choices they choose to do with certain projects.

I do know a decent bit about the Bloober Team Silent Hill project at this stage (and I don't mentioning one of the SH games is a Bloober game I don't think is much of a leak; after Konami & Bloober announced their partnership on working together on game stuff, I think it's been pretty obvious that was in relation to a SH game). I'll just say it's the project I'm the most apprehensive of, but I don't hate what I've heard & seen about it, it looks good, & I even think on paper it sounds good, but obviously it'll all come down to execution. My hope is they've learned from past mistakes and some of the other people on the project will be able to help realize it the best it can be. But visually and on paper, I like the project, just the one I'm most apprehensive of at this point for a few reasons. But I'm cautiously optimistic all the same, not as much as the other two projects, but I'm open to giving them a chance (though if they screw this up, I think their reputation will forever be smeared by the horror game community, so good luck Bloober).

I guess it's also worth mentioning their project at this point in time is the one I'm most apprehensive of, but I could see it turning out good, it just depends on them executing it well really. The other two projects I'm personally more excited and optimistic for at this point in time, though. I'm just ready for this stuff to start getting revealed soon so we get past the pre-announcement stage and can more openly talk about things.
Do you know if it's a remake or not?
 

Beelzebufo

Member
Jun 1, 2022
4,025
Canada
Oh yeah, if they fuck this up there's absolutely zero coming back from it. They are either incredibly brave or incredibly arrogant to have taken this on.
 
Apr 27, 2018
2,445
I'm playing The Medium on the PS5 right now, and the music is top notch as it's the same composer of Silent Hill 1-4.

Hopefully Sony is still involved with the series. Just want a Silent Hill game or Silent Hill(s) to come back. The Dualsense controller will probably play a huge role, in regards to gameplay.

Wanted to wish PT a happy 8th birthday as well. :)
 

Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,452
Let's hope Bloober doesn't turn Pyramid Head into a stalker enemy in their SH2 remake
I know some people are burned out by the gimmick but I honestly think making a stalker segment with him would be cool. Specifically I'd like to see it in the Labyrinth. It feels to me like what they wanted to convey with the "he walks around in a circle" section.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
I know some people are burned out by the gimmick but I honestly think making a stalker segment with him would be cool. Specifically I'd like to see it in the Labyrinth. It feels to me like what they wanted to convey with the "he walks around in a circle" section.
I do think it's pretty clear in the original SH2 the team wanted to do a stalker Pyramid Head, it just didn't pan out due to technological problems at the time. You can even see in early trailers for SH2 Pyramid Head wandering the apartments and the city streets at night, but both were cut reportedly for AI limitations at the time.

And indeed, the stuff in the labyrinth felt like they were trying to convey Pyramid Head hunting you, but in a very limited way working with how limited the AI system in SH2 was. Pyramid Head's usage in the original SH2 was confined not due to creative intent by the team, but technical limitations at the time. And I think it's telling how much they wanted something like this in that they even did a couple "fake" stalker sections with Pyramid Head in the Labyrinth to try and give that feeling.

Actually, ironically even though the series has had "pseudo stalkers", there's never been a proper stalker. Between Pyramid Head in SH2 (and Homecoming), Butcher in Origins, Bogeyman in Downpour, all of them ended up being very limited use and never really being a stalker enemy, though in every case it felt like they wanted to be in many ways.

I guess the closest would actually be the Raw Shocks in Shattered Memories (maybe the Red Light in Downpour (and could go and even include the red light chase sequence in the Borley Mansion in SH3 maybe), but ehhhh).
 
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Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,452
I do think it's pretty clear in the original SH2 the team wanted to do a stalker Pyramid Head, it just didn't pan out due to technological problems at the time. You can even see in early trailers for SH2 Pyramid Head wandering the apartments and the city streets at night, but both were cut reportedly for AI limitations at the time.

And indeed, the stuff in the labyrinth felt like they were trying to convey Pyramid Head hunting you, but in a very limited way working with how limited the AI system in SH2 was. Pyramid Head's usage in the original SH2 was confined not due to creative intent by the team, but technical limitations at the time. And I think it's telling how much they wanted something like this in that they even did a couple "fake" stalker sections with Pyramid Head in the Labyrinth to try and give that feeling.
Unfortunately this fanbase doesn't accept that anything could possible be changed or improved in SH2. Like, it's one of my favorite games of all time and it's fine how it is. But it's also clearly not perfect on a gameplay or technical standpoint at all and we have a lot of confirmation that there's stuff they wanted to do but couldn't. But this is the fanbase that harassed Tomm Hulett to the point of quitting partially because he at one point suggested there were gameplay elements of SH2 that weren't perfect. A remake that does anything more than a complete 1:1 in every way beyond prettier graphics will be roasted alive regardless of who is making it.
 

SketchDog

Member
Nov 25, 2021
2,665
Toronto
A remake that does anything more than a complete 1:1 in every way beyond prettier graphics will be roasted alive regardless of who is making it.

A lot of time that's just noise from hardcore purists on the internet. There's been lots of remakes that change things up quite a bit and are commercial successes, get good reviews etc. This could be one of them.
 

Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,452
A lot of time that's just noise from hardcore purists on the internet. There's been lots of remakes that change things up quite a bit and are commercial successes, get good reviews etc. This could be one of them.
Perhaps. I think the SH fanbase is a bit different though. It was already in the process of eating itself alive back in the early 2010s as it split between "SH1-4 Only" and "The Newer Games Are Good Too" camps. The decade of stagnation put that process on hold a bit but I'm honestly not sure what the fanbase has become in the meantime. It's a weird situation. I think whatever happens we're going to see a lot of debate.
 

SketchDog

Member
Nov 25, 2021
2,665
Toronto
and mentioning one of the SH games is a Bloober game I don't think is much of a leak at this stage; after Konami & Bloober announced publicly their partnership on working together on game stuff, I think it's been pretty obvious that was in relation to a SH game

This isn't really an original leak at this point because I think 3 or 4 other leakers came out and confirmed the SH2 remake from bloober months ago.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
This isn't really an original leak at this point because I think 3 or 4 other leakers came out and confirmed the SH2 remake from bloober months ago.
I kinda' don't want to confirm or deny the leaks I didn't post, what I will say is there's something about the leaks outside of myself I'm really pissed off about, and rightfully so I think, but talking about it specifically may give out a bit too much, which isn't what I want at this point. I'll probably talk about it once stuff is properly out there though, it's a bit of drama is all I'll say for now.
 

Milfanito ~

Member
Apr 1, 2022
142
Imagine if you work at Blooper, the amount of fan bullshit you have to put up with must be unbelievable, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes, the constant pressure and criticism knowing that they will crucify you for any little change you try to make. I don't know if Blooper are ideal or up to the task or not, I don't think it's up to me to say that either, when I'm just a fan.
We can criticise ad nauseam when we don't like a game, but to have an almost bullying attitude during development when we don't know anything about it yet is another thing.
 

Darkknight2149

Ban made permanent due to harassment of staff
Banned
May 27, 2020
6,398
I do think it's pretty clear in the original SH2 the team wanted to do a stalker Pyramid Head, it just didn't pan out due to technological problems at the time. You can even see in early trailers for SH2 Pyramid Head wandering the apartments and the city streets at night, but both were cut reportedly for AI limitations at the time.

And indeed, the stuff in the labyrinth felt like they were trying to convey Pyramid Head hunting you, but in a very limited way working with how limited the AI system in SH2 was. Pyramid Head's usage in the original SH2 was confined not due to creative intent by the team, but technical limitations at the time. And I think it's telling how much they wanted something like this in that they even did a couple "fake" stalker sections with Pyramid Head in the Labyrinth to try and give that feeling.

Actually, ironically even though the series has had "pseudo stalkers", there's never been a proper stalker. Between Pyramid Head in SH2 (and Homecoming), Butcher in Origins, Bogeyman in Downpour, all of them ended up being very limited use and never really being a stalker enemy, though in every case it felt like they wanted to be in many ways.

I guess the closest would actually be the Raw Shocks in Shattered Memories (maybe the Red Light in Downpour (and could go and even include the red light chase sequence in the Borley Mansion in SH3 maybe), but ehhhh).
Unfortunately this fanbase doesn't accept that anything could possible be changed or improved in SH2. Like, it's one of my favorite games of all time and it's fine how it is. But it's also clearly not perfect on a gameplay or technical standpoint at all and we have a lot of confirmation that there's stuff they wanted to do but couldn't. But this is the fanbase that harassed Tomm Hulett to the point of quitting partially because he at one point suggested there were gameplay elements of SH2 that weren't perfect. A remake that does anything more than a complete 1:1 in every way beyond prettier graphics will be roasted alive regardless of who is making it.
The problem is that Pyramid Head isn't hunting you, though. He isn't even trying to kill you. Pyramid Head canonically kills the other monsters to snap James out of his delusions. The only chase sequence in the game involves him targeting Maria and not you. Even in the Labyrinth, Pyramid Head doesn't chase you at all or attack you unless you go straight up to him. The same thing goes for the segments in the demo where Pyramid Head roams the streets of the town.

The only time he has any real interest in killing James is in two scripted boss fights that represent James overcoming himself, and even in those, he straight up leaves if you avoid him long enough.


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/adsk4/status/1263050285062094848


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/adsk4/status/1557567351729446917?cxt=HHwWioCjmaHQy50rAAAA


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/adsk4/status/1418627017457557506


Turning Pyramid Head into a stalker wouldn't be an improvement, it would just be a misinterpretation of the character. Like it or not, he's not Nemesis. "Fans will get mad if we make Pyramid Head do out-of-character stuff to ape a popular trend." Well, yeah. Of course.

The things the team couldn't do because of technical limitations were also minor for the most part.

A lot of time that's just noise from hardcore purists on the internet. There's been lots of remakes that change things up quite a bit and are commercial successes, get good reviews etc. This could be one of them.
Silent Hill 2 is an authorial work of art with symbolism and subtext. Not every game is a digital toy or a blockbuster like Resident Evil. Obviously changing it in trendy misinterpretive ways (which is unnecessary to begin with) is going to spark outrage, I'm not sure why you would expect it not to.

Being a "commercial success" also doesn't make something good. What's the actual point of a Silent Hill 2 remake like that?
 

SketchDog

Member
Nov 25, 2021
2,665
Toronto
Silent Hill 2 is an authorial work of art with symbolism and subtext. Not every game is a digital toy or a blockbuster like Resident Evil. Obviously changing it in trendy misinterpretive ways (which is unnecessary to begin with) is going to spark outrage, I'm not sure why you would expect it not to.

Being a "commercial success" also doesn't make something good. What's the actual point of a Silent Hill 2 remake like that?

Well...there's different kinds of people. The gaming market has changed a lot since the days of the original silent hill 2 release. Market is a lot bigger now. Lots of new kinds of people buying and playing games these days. So you'll have all types - people who haven't played the original and don't care, people who played the original but don't mind change, people who are just generally indifferent for x,y,z reason, people who actually prefer change to mix things up, and of course the people who want the game to be faithful to the original. If it's a commercial success that's one indicator it appealed to a market broader than just the people who wanted it to be a faithful remake.
 

Darkknight2149

Ban made permanent due to harassment of staff
Banned
May 27, 2020
6,398
Well...there's different kinds of people. The gaming market has changed a lot since the days of the original silent hill 2 release. Market is a lot bigger now. Lots of new kinds of people buying and playing games these days. So you'll have all types - people who haven't played the original and don't care, people who played the original but don't mind change, people who are just generally indifferent for x,y,z reason, people who actually prefer change to mix things up, and of course the people who want the game to be faithful to the original. If it's a commercial success that's one indicator it appealed to a market broader than just the people who wanted it to be a faithful remake.
I can fully understand this reasoning for commercial-driven blockbusters and most other video games, but Silent Hill 2 is basically a David Lynch film in video game form. I think that's the wrong mentality to approach a remake from in this instance. It's just not me saying this:

www.resetera.com

What game has the best story in videogames?

All of the recent TLOU Part II threads popping up, with so many praising it's story tellng, have got me thinking: What game has the best story in videogame history? What game has a story that transcends the medium, and not only stands out amongst other games, but alongside some of the great...

Even a new game would have to balance appealing to a large audience with the vision of the creators.

(Typo)
 
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Ashes of Dreams

Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
14,452
The problem is that Pyramid Head isn't hunting you, though. He isn't even trying to kill you. Pyramid Head canonically kills the other monsters to snap James out of his delusions. The only chase sequence in the game involves him targeting Maria and not you. Even in the Labyrinth, Pyramid Head doesn't chase you at all or attack you unless you go straight up to him. The same thing goes for the segments in the demo where Pyramid Head roams the streets of the town.

The only time he has any real interest in killing James is in two scripted boss fights that represent James overcoming himself, and even in those, he straight up leaves if you avoid him long enough.


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/adsk4/status/1263050285062094848


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/adsk4/status/1557567351729446917?cxt=HHwWioCjmaHQy50rAAAA


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/adsk4/status/1418627017457557506



Turning Pyramid Head into a stalker wouldn't be an improvement, it would just be a misinterpretation of the character. Like it or not, he's not Nemesis. "Fans will get mad if we make Pyramid Head do out-of-character stuff to ape a popular trend." Well, yeah. Of course.

The things the team couldn't do because of technical limitations were also minor for the most part.


My problem with this is that while it sounds great on paper, it's got too many asterisks next to it.
Pyramid Head never tries to kill James***
*Except in the two boss fights against him
*Unless you run into him in the Labyrinth where he'll chase after you
*Also don't get in his way in the Hospital hallway either

Like, trust me, I'm aware of the role Pyramid Head plays in the story. It's great. And the details about what his actions are actually contributing too is great. But from a gameplay perspective, you can Game Over to him. He actively attacks and chases down James. We can consider scenarios where you die to him "non-canon" for the sake of the deeper story but then there's nothing stopping us from doing the same thing if he's a stalker enemy for a segment either. To only actual difference is that it's not something that was done in SH2 before.

Jesus, that one Ito tweet. What in the fuck is that scene meant to depict or mean then? Am I a weird idiot or is he just lying?
The one with Pyramid Head and the Lying Figure? To me it's been very clear from the beginning that he's not "raping" the other monsters. SH2 treats the subject of sexual abuse very seriously and it's always bothered me that people made a bunch of tasteless rape jokes around Pyramid Head. It seemed clear to me that he was just killing them. Through, you know, suffocation. Which is far more relevant to James's story than rape.
That said, the one right before the first boss fight is a bit easier to view as some kind of sexual thing than the one in closet, though that's still not where my mind ever went personally and they've been pretty clear long before those tweets that it wasn't the case.
 

Lucini

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,529
Silent Hill 2 is an authorial work of art with symbolism and subtext. Not every game is a digital toy or a blockbuster like Resident Evil. Obviously changing it in trendy misinterpretive ways (which is unnecessary to begin with) is going to spark outrage, I'm not sure why you would expect it not to.

Authorial intent is great for context but every author and creator knows that when it's in the wild, everything is up for interpretation.

I 100 percent agree that there's no point in a change that chases trends, as it will definitely come off as derivative.

Given that there are assertions about the limits of the platform making Pyramid Head into what we know, I'm inclined to the position that if he's allowed to roam freely and encounter James more often, this strengthens the relationship that Ito is mentioning in his tweets.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,216
Brazil
And indeed, the stuff in the labyrinth felt like they were trying to convey Pyramid Head hunting you, but in a very limited way working with how limited the AI system in SH2 was. Pyramid Head's usage in the original SH2 was confined not due to creative intent by the team, but technical limitations at the time. And I think it's telling how much they wanted something like this in that they even did a couple "fake" stalker sections with Pyramid Head in the Labyrinth to try and give that feeling.
The two areas in which the Pyramid Heads appear in the Labyrinth are optional and dead ends. If James follows the correct path, he'll never run into the PHs, which pretty much adds to they being a guide of sorts and keeping James from straying.
 

Darkknight2149

Ban made permanent due to harassment of staff
Banned
May 27, 2020
6,398
Authorial intent is great for context but every author and creator knows that when it's in the wild, everything is up for interpretation.

I 100 percent agree that there's no point in a change that chases trends, as it will definitely come off as derivative.

Given that there are assertions about the limits of the platform making Pyramid Head into what we know, I'm inclined to the position that if he's allowed to roam freely and encounter James more often, this strengthens the relationship that Ito is mentioning in his tweets.
If everything is purely open to interpretation, doesn't that leave even less wiggle room for changes? I think there's a distinction between interpretations and doing over someone else's work.

For this particular game, it would make a lot more sense for a remake to focus on quality-of-life updates. Item balancing, enemy A.I., graphics, more fluid controls, a rotational camera in the free-floating segments (instead of holding "R2"), update the inventory system, ETC.
 

Pyramid Head

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,839
I don't think any "very surprising creatives" can save a Bloober Team game. They simply don't have the X-factor.
What Bloober Team needs are better game designers, capable of producing more than the ultra rudimentary borefests they've outputted to date, and better programmers, capable of stringing together basic game logic that doesn't crumble the moment the user does anything but the one single action they anticipated.

Edit: Oh yeah, and better writers. Waaay better writers.
Way better everyone basically.
 

Lucini

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,529
If everything is purely open to interpretation, doesn't that leave even less wiggle room for changes? I think there's a distinction between interpretations and doing over someone else's work.

For this particular game, it would make a lot more sense for a remake to focus on quality-of-life updates. Item balancing, enemy A.I., graphics, more fluid controls, a rotational camera in the free-floating segments (instead of holding "R2"), update the inventory system, ETC.

I mean it like this: the author can intend a lot of things, interpretation is left up to those consuming whatever media is created. The people remaking SH2, if that's what is happening, will have likely played SH2. How they interpreted the events of the game, the actual experience of playing the game, and how to improve or iterate on the original are all going to be up to those people on that team.

Needless to say there's a non-zero chance that they'll differ in minor and major ways from the original authorial vision. This is a similar discussion, I think, to the ones around Resident Evil's remakes as well. The original intent is not gospel in producing a remake. The idea is to evoke the original in a new creation, not remaster it or simply update the old thing. Tomorrow, Ito and others could say that their original vision was that the UFO endings are canon. I wouldn't find that a compelling reason to take that intent into a remake and have that view be the guideline that drives production.

As for the quality of life updates you're talking about…that's a remaster, not a remake. That's a very different scope for production.