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New Switch model coming in second half of 2019, reports Japanese WSJ
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So instead of the top part of the clamshell being the screen it's just a kickstand, backplate and cover.
Not to completely dismiss the idea out of hand, but if the entire source of it is Nintendo's usual "no comment" when asked about future revision, that's pretty weak info. You could also have asked them about a Switch Pro and they would have said the same thing.
That said, a smaller Switch could work if they remember to keep the joy-cons as part of the system. Trying to make a GBA SP out of it would look pretty bad when there are several million selling titles out there that make extensive use of the joy-con controllers, including Splatoon and Super Mario Party. To make a revision that plays these incredibly popular games worse isn't a great selling point.
But this might be good news for the Switch Pro, or possibly a Switch successor. Nintendo waiting a year gives the increased probably of them and nVidia moving to 7nm and the performance upgrades that brings to the table, allowing the tech to mature and settle down in price. A bigger upgrade might be easier to advertise than a smaller one.
Yeah I think so. Removing the dock already saves something like $50 (not in BOM but based on the dockless Switch they sell in Japan) and using a smaller chip as well as less materials, smaller battery, and maybe no fan should save a good amount of money. Then you factor in savings in shipping from having a smaller box, things like that. Maybe they'll integrate the controllers so no detachable joycons, no separate batteries/bluetooth chips/gyro sensors, etc.
I feel like $200 is achievable but I was pretty optimistic that they could do that for the OG Switch so what do I know.
For ds/3ds BC, they could make a joy con/switch grip like this, put the 2ds internal in there and sell it for a profit at $50-$80 since 2ds is sold at a profit at $80 with a game. Wouldn't even require a screen since it would connect to the switch via usbc port.
Alternatively, they could do the same thing, a joy con grip, but with 2 3.5 inch screens in the middle that again, is essentially a 2ds, and have it connect via usbc to the switch dock or be a stand alone handheld.
If its profitable at $250 in japan it probably costs like $200-$230ish to make a switch on its own without dock (and i imagine dock only adds like $10) so with a node shrink, smaller case, no fan, smaller screen i think $199 at a profit is doable.
The video you posted says they don't understand why it works, but there are also links showing these batteries are already being used? So I take it the info in the video is out dated? Otherwise, who would make this if they don't even know how or why it works.
We don't know how most painkillers work but we still use them. Tylenol/acetaminophen being one of them.
Hell, we don't know how or why anasthesia works but we use it for almost every single surgery performed.
We use all sorts of technology before we understand that tech.
If we do get a mini, they'll probably reduce the price to 279.99 or 249.99. $300 is too drastic. Will be interesting to see if the dock will be included. Better battery, trimmed bezels, maybe a higher quality 720p screen.
Specially when this console would be aimed at an audience that would actually want to play with joy-cons, enjoy multiplayer and co-op games and make use of motion control features. They joy-cons are way more important than the dock in my opinion. By removing the dock you can use two of the Switch modes, you can still play all of the games, including the family ones, and be able to enjoy multiplayer games, a core feature of the Switch. A joyconless Switch leaves you with just one mode, makes some games unplayable, etc. I'll quote myself from the other thread.
I think this latest ad could give us a hint of what kind of revision we'll get, they only focus on handheld and tabletop mode, with no mention at all of the dock, they're not even showing it once he gets to the living room, which would make more sense. Instead, they're in their living room playing tabletop mode. Even the final part of the ad doesn't show the fact you can dock the Switch and play on your TV, which was something pretty common in most of the ads, if not all.
Nintendo saving $50 on a dockless Switch is more because it's being sold directly to the consumer, forgoing retail overhead. The dock doesn't really cost the $60 or $80 or whatever Nintendo charges for an extra.
Right but I think it costs more than the $5 people seem to exaggerate with. I'm guessing something like $20. But it also comes with reduction in packaging size which helps with shipping and storage costs.
I'm a Nintendo fan since the SNES. Why I'm so displeased that they're doing the opposite that I think that they should do? I should be accostumed to that on 2019.
It's basically a USB-C hub with an HDMI output. You can find those on Amazon for sub $20, meaning they are likely even cheaper to actually make. You'll also find ones that are stupid expensive too. The reason is Apple's infamous move to less USB ports on their laptops and tablets, causing a little gold rush in usb-c hubs, along with the premium pricing apple places on their products rubbing off on the third party accessory makers.
I actually fucking love thisAlternatively, they could do the same thing, a joy con grip, but with 2 3.5 inch screens in the middle that again, is essentially a 2ds, and have it connect via usbc to the switch dock or be a stand alone handheld.
Alright, see my fanfiction
2019:
Switch Mini
Switch Model E which is the equivalent of Xbox One S. Using the internals of Switch Mini, enabling it to achieve greater battery life and slightly better performance in the regular thermal envelope. Gradually replaces the standard Switch as the default SKU.
2020:
Switch Pro
2019:
Switch Mini
Switch Model E which is the equivalent of Xbox One S. Using the internals of Switch Mini, enabling it to achieve greater battery life and slightly better performance in the regular thermal envelope. Gradually replaces the standard Switch as the default SKU.
2020:
Switch Pro
[QUOTE="Deguello, post: 17450234, member: 51986"]It's basically a USB-C hub with an HDMI output. You can find those on Amazon for sub $20, meaning they are likely even cheaper to actually make. You'll also find ones that are stupid expensive too. The reason is Apple's infamous move to less USB ports on their laptops and tablets, causing a little gold rush in usb-c hubs, along with the premium pricing apple places on their products rubbing off on the third party accessory makers.[/QUOTE]
I think you are forgetting in your cost assessment the current charger. It is not your everyday charger that can be trivialized (but if they sell the product without a dock they can provide a lesser charger, since the current charger is beefed up for dock mode).
I think you are forgetting in your cost assessment the current charger. It is not your everyday charger that can be trivialized (but if they sell the product without a dock they can provide a lesser charger, since the current charger is beefed up for dock mode).
This is pretty close to my current thinking. I don't think that they will differentiate your Model E - it will just be that new stock of the Switch will be this model.
I think that when they release a dockless switch, they'll leave the current ac adapter alone. I think the cost savings would be small and would be way more hard to keep track of than different versions of the console.
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I wouldn't be shocked if it only comes with a usb A to C cable like some phones do.
Could be. The difficult part is making sure that your AC adapter puts out enough juice to support the Switch. That said, cutting the price by the cost of a *nice* ac adapter and having a big sticker on the box that says "Requires an AC Adapter that supports the USB Power Delivery Specification to 20W" and then putting exactly that AC adapter on the shelf next to it for a reasonable price ($20?) could be the trick to cutting the price by another $20.
Of course, when they make the revision they should update to make sure they conform to the USB PD standard as well.
I think Nintendo would benefit from an S/Slim/Lite kind of deal from a marketing perspective. A new, sleeker, refined Switch would be both more enticing to prospective customers, especially at a likely reduced price point that accompanies such revisions, and also prompt a small fragment of the current owners to buy a second unit.
I was thinking they might be able to get it down to 5W for a standalone model, but idk. The dock supply needs to be able to power up to 3 usb devices, not including the Switch.
Had to look it up.
The Nintendo Switch Console is expected to enjoy optimal charging over USB Type-C using its own Nintendo Switch AC Adapter that comes with the Switch. The Nintendo Switch AC Adapter uses USB Power Delivery over USB Type-C to provide 7.5 watts (5 volts @ 1.5 amps) and 39 watts (15 volts @ 2.6 amps) of charging to the Switch Console.
I actually wasn't expecting that amount of disparity.
Looking at Amazon, the $30 for the Nintendo adapter is a really decent price.
Edit: I can't figure out how to remove the links from my phone.
That was my point - a dockless Switch can get by with a much, much cheaper charging solution, so people describing the dock (as far as cost) as just "a USB-C hub with an HDMI output. " while omitting the charger are doing it a disservice.
So does the smaller Switch exist to bring existing 3DS base over to the Switch unified platform. I'd still say there will be an improved Switch/Hydrid model with improved power for the traditional console market however the Switch mini is the 3DS of the new generation. Kind of makes sense in their move to unify their resources to get cost efficiency gains as well as continuing to capture the 3DS market which from memory they sell more DS units than they do consoles.
I'm not entirely sure what that 7.5W number is, but it doesn't correspond to the power draw of the Switch while undocked. Anandtech's actual testing shows it can still manage to draw nearly 18W from the adapter undocked. That's less than 39W, sure, but unless they hinder the rate of charging while playing, it still won't be cheap compared to your 5 or 10 watt phone charger.
Releasing different spec. adapter for different Switch sounds like a potential official cheaper adapter killing original Switch situation. Unless they use a different connector like a barrel connector.
I'm guessing a cheaper Switch to get the 3DS customers. $249 should be the goal.
The New 3DS with more horsepower was released in 2015, four years after the launch of the console.
It was early 2015, 4 years later. Late 2014 for Japan (+ Australia?)
Late 2020-early 2021 would be the equivalent for an upgraded Switch.
It could come out at anytime. Like 3 years after it's initial release date, on March 2020.
It's not going to matter much, the chance that Nintendo/Nvidia continue to use Tegra X1 20nm in future iterations is very very low. On 12nm the power draw of the portable performance can probably be halved, I don't think a cheaper AC adapter is out of the question, though my hope is that any iteration will target Switch docked performance, which on 12nm could consume 7watts or so, hopefully.
Yep, original plan was holiday 2016 and that date was controlled more by Wii U still being on the market than access to the Tegra X1 chip, which could have actually been available for use in 2015.
We know a Switch Pro exists too, though benji chimed in earlier in the thread and last mentioned that the pro model's release has become murky... I think Nintendo was hoping for the 3DS to actually hit sales target of 4M and for Switch to sell a bit better in Japan, currently it's on track to sell about 18 Million units world wide this FY, but they obviously expected Japan sales to be higher, had it of sold ~5 Million in Japan, they could have been very close to 20 Million, especially because Switch looked like it was going to break 10 Million last quarter without that.
Anyways, the emergency of the handheld market, has refocused Nintendo to release the cheaper Switch sku first, though there is still some room for improved performance, via clock speeds and CPU architecture (A72/A73 is actually cheaper than A57).
But when you consider what Nintendo said on how long they want to support the switch, it is really likely that there will be some kind of an upgrade in the near future.
Depends on who you find to be creditable, Matt, John Harken, the SNK leaker have all said a Switch Pro exists. There are other people who have confirmed that one exists as well.
Let's just look at the history of Nintendo handhelds really quick too...
Gameboy got a Gameboy "Pro" via the Gameboy Color
Gameboy Advance did not see a spec upgrade, but the SP was a drastic improvement, so arguably no "Pro" model here.
DS got a DS "Pro" via the DSi/DSi XL
3DS got a 3DS "Pro" via New 3DS/New 3DS XL/New 2DS XL.
Switch getting a "Pro" is hardly a revolution in how Nintendo does business... Hell, you could argue that Wii was just a Gamecube "Pro" and the Wii U was a "Pro2" not exactly what I have in mind with the Switch, but history shows they will do it, and the above leakers have yet to be proven wrong too, heck Matt knew the Switch display resolution back in 2015 iirc.
It's definitely possible there will be an upgrade, but its not really likely that it will be anywhere in the near future.
How long do they want to support Switch? And will new games run on both Switch consoles? Maybe future games will only run decently in docked mode on the current model.
You are definitely ignoring John's post, and Matt's post. With the Pro model already existing, it does lend itself to coming out sooner rather than later. Let's not forget that Nvidia's Tegra Mariko SoC is currently supported in Switch firmware, and has been updated along the way since 5.0 in March last year. It's not just wishful thinking going on here for 7,000 posts, it's confirmation, rumors and leaks. Though I believe plans have changed over the last 6 months, and we might not see this version of the Pro model that Matt and John are talking about, as I think they could move on to 7nm in 2020 or even 2021. With the rumors that PS5 is only 8Teraflops, it could benefit Nintendo to jump the shark with a beefy revision that can handle next gen ports very easily.
Samsung has also completed development on their Graphene battery, though this is a clump style, not single layers, and only increases capacity by 45%. A Pro Switch might have a much higher portable performance than we expected if they don't launch until late 2020 or 2021. If the glass battery is ready by then, it could change the very limits of what a hybrid console is, pushing the power consumption as high as 25 watts.
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It's interesting searching Amazon for USB Power Delivery chargers. I'm not finding much under $20. I can search aliexpress and find things down to like $10, but the shipping is a killer, and I'd rather not plug my switch into something that sketchy.
I hear a lot of talk about Nintendo and 7nm. I just don't expect them to be bleeding edge. They took a big break off of leading edge for Wii and Wii U, and now they're back to something close to leading edge. I would expect them to do a revision to 12nm this year for an internal revision of the core switch and the mini. I would expect them to use that technology to build a revised switch for next year - maybe the 3 year anniversary? I would expect them to revise the chipset again to 7nm in 2021 or 2022 when it's mature, and use that to do internal revisions to the Switch and Mini first, followed by a revised unit the next year.
I think battery is going to be the same thing. When there's a new battery tech, and it's mature enough to be cheaper to use the newer battery type to power a switch for 3 hours than it would be to do so with Lithium Ion, then they'll adopt it. If it's significantly smaller for the capacity, then maybe they'd use it to support a smaller switch, but I don't think they're to that point yet.
I don't think Nintendo is looking for bleeding edge. I think they're looking for reliably repeatable at 20,000,000 units per year.
There are a few things to keep in mind here. Nintendo and Nvidia have chosen to be more cutting edge than Nintendo's previous partners.
They aren't competing with that technology directly, which is what they want to avoid, they want to compete on their own hooks/gimmicks, which any hybrid would be.
7nm showing up 2 years after phones ship with them (last year) isn't cutting edge, in fact it's par for the course with Nintendo, even with the Wii.
These high capacity, safer batteries, especially the glass battery will be cheaper than the batteries used today, the glass battery uses no exotic materials and might be made out of sodium electrodes. If the entire industry switches over to it, there is little reason to believe that the battery dependent switch wouldn't use one. Outside of the wii u gamepad, Nintendo has actually used high capacity batteries for their devices too, the galaxy s10 series will have a 4000mah battery, same as switch.
Nintendo spent ~$57 on each Tegra X1, they spent twice that on Wii U and Microsoft and Sony are likely to spend as much as $200 a piece on their APU chips. Nintendo's hybrid form factor with active cooling, already limits the price and performance they can spend on silicon, so while it might seem like bleeding edge tech, the reality is that Nintendo is saving money and if all 3 are unwilling to sell for a loss and ps5 is looking for $399 with some profit, well $299 without a disc drive and with an ARM CPU, that leaves plenty of room for high performance than we are talking about. If this Pro model doesn't launch next year, or comes at the very end of next year (I think spring 2021 is more likely to avoid Sony and Microsoft personally) they might move on from Mariko, which could still be used in the mini.
Anyways, I think the window for 12nm pro is smaller than we think, Nvidia and Nintendo will find a lot of benefits going with 7nm after 2020 and with PS5 possibly being so low performance, Nintendo can reach much higher on 7nm thanks to more Cuda cores and higher clocks.
Sony could always change their specs later. I'm sure it's not set in stone, like the amount of RAM for the PS4 jumped from 4 to 8. They are very competitive with MS on power. Would be surprised if we get less than 10-12 TFLOPs tbqh.
I don't think we'll get graphene or glass anytime soon on the mass market, at least not for switch pro release. I want to believe Nintendo would go for 7nm, but from their history, they go price over power/latest tech usually. I also I wonder if it will be ready in March 2020. They should ideally release the Switch Pro early as possible before PS5/XBtwo. Summer 2020 the latest(feels late for me), but hopefully Q4 2019-Q1 2020.
In terms of watt usage (replying to an earlier post), shouldn't watt usage be cut by 60% for the same performance speeds as TX1? 12nm would go further. For the switch mini, I just realized they could make it smaller than the current switch size by stacking the ram on top of each other, and they could reduce the battery size a little. The smaller node will help offset watt usage. Don't care for the smaller size though and hoping they keep the battery size the same if possible and feasible though.
Right, getting a switch pro out this year is best, Sony going for 8tflops isn't super surprising tbh, it was designed to come out this year but was delayed. It could come as early as March next year. The size of the chip is hard to change at this point, but they could go with a higher clock. I expect Microsoft to have an expensive and cheap sku so they will likely release 2 consoles with different gpu performance at launch, while Sony will wait 3 years for ps5 pro, unless they want to chase that same high end market, we will see.
7nm won't be bleeding edge by the time Nintendo and nVidia would use it, though. It debuted earlier in 2018, which will be plenty of time for it to mature into 2020. 20nm debuted in late 2014, nVidia used it for the Tegra X1 in 2015, and Nintendo decided to use it prolly later that year. Since Nintendo and nVidia are tight now, Nintendo doesn't need the shopping around and selection step, as they'll likely use whatever nVidia makes for them, if they already aren't making it right now. Since nvidia is heavily rumored that they are aiming to have 7nm stuff this year and pretty much guaranteed to use it next year, it's not too much of a stretch to surmise that Switch 2/Pro/Advance would use a 2 year old die process that has matured greatly.
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