Newsweek: Alt-Right White Supremacists Claim Papa John's as Official Pizza

[Darryl M R]

Your entire argument since you started quoting me has been predicated on false equivalences and hyperbole.
Its nice to know that a pizza brand that many liberals and democrats probably use in america is literally the KKK.

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It is clear that you have a hard time comprehending so I'll wait for you to go back and tell me where did I say Papa John is "literally" the KKK.

And hint, it is not my previous post where I provided a facetious example to display that the argument that people should be against horrible people laying claim to a horrible brand is dumb.

Also you should not use words and phrases that you do not know how to use or identify. Go back and highlight false equivalences and any hyperbole in my posts.

 

[Jom]

People in this thread are basically saying "we don't want it, so go ahead and take it."
I'm saying Thats a really shitty reaction because it just further legitimizes the shitheads.

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"Take" what exactly?

Are you telling me I couldn't pick up the phone and order some inedible shit right now delivered to my house from Papa John's?

 

[DerbyCityDerek]

Has anyone considered that maybe the point of boycotting Papa Johns (or Chick-fil-A, as others have brought up) isn't to destroy that company's income but rather as something resembling a principled stand?

Like, my life isn't about making sure Chick-fil-A goes under. I just don't want to give my money to companies with gross leadership. I have alternatives.

I'm not some spirit of consumer vengeance trying to drive people into poverty, I just don't want to financially support these people, and I want others to have the information to make the same choice if they so choose. I suspect this is basically the chain of thought most of us have.

 

[Speevy]

If history has taught us anything, it's that you never assume racists will defeat themselves.

 

[Mailbox]

All i'm saying is that mocking them and shaming them for even insinuating they have any stake in official status on anything is a much better reaction to this than "Yeah, okay, Papa Johns is the official pizza of white supremacy because i don't like it or its owner "

 

[Darryl M R]

All i'm saying is that mocking them and shaming them for even insinuating they have any stake in official status on anything is a much better reaction to this than "Yeah, okay, Papa Johns is the official pizza of white supremacy because i don't like it or its owner "

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That's not all you were saying but that's all you can say now because your arguments have been rooted in the false premise that people should defend things they are morally against.

 

[Speevy]

Has anyone considered that maybe the point of boycotting Papa Johns (or Chick-fil-A, as others have brought up) isn't to destroy that company's income but rather as something resembling a principled stand?

Like, my life isn't about making sure Chick-fil-A goes under. I just don't want to give my money to companies with gross leadership. I have alternatives.

I'm not some spirit of consumer vengeance trying to drive people into poverty, I just don't want to financially support these people, and I want others to have the information to make the same choice if they so choose. I suspect this is basically the chain of thought most of us have.

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Except that it frequently devolves into "Don't even tell me that you still eat there.", which is totally ridiculous.

 

[Jom]

Has anyone considered that maybe the point of boycotting Papa Johns (or Chick-fil-A, as others have brought up) isn't to destroy that company's income but rather as something resembling a principled stand?

Like, my life isn't about making sure Chick-fil-A goes under. I just don't want to give my money to companies with gross leadership. I have alternatives.

I'm not some spirit of consumer vengeance trying to drive people into poverty, I just don't want to financially support these people, and I want others to have the information to make the same choice if they so choose. I suspect this is basically the chain of thought most of us have.

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To add onto this many times these kinds of boycotts if great enough will do one of two positive things:

1) The board or shareholders could drive the cancerous owner out, forcing him to sell his shares and causing a reform in the leadership. Regular people aren't out of jobs and even the pushed out leader is going to get a huge windfall.

2) If sales truly go down it creates a vacuum where another more deserving and socially conscious pizza chain can rise up and fill the vacuum. People don't suddenly just stop eating pizza. They'll look for alternatives. If this hypothetical other pizza chain fills that vacuum the increased demand will create more jobs that people leaving the shitty chain can work at.

 

[Slayven]

People should talk to the owner if they concerned about the alt right being so attracted to them. I don't know why some folks believe the onus is on us to save a private business who shits the bed on PR.

 

[EdibleKnife]

People should talk to the owner if they concerned about the alt right being so attracted to them. I don't know why some folks believe the onus is on us to save a private business who shits the bed on PR.

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Right? I and minorities in general already call out white supremacists on their bullshit, especially when it actually matters. This current situation is one of only Papa John's making so it (and I guess it's diehard fans) should do the work to push back against the association. They've got the stigma of being associated with white supremacists because they took part in rhetoric attractive to white supremacists. I have no stock in PJ's or their plight so I'll address other, more important instances of white supremacist fuckery rather than come to PJ's defense just because. The enemy of my enemy is not suddenly my friend in this case. PJ's can still get fucked and so can white supremacists. Don't know why there are any arguments about "letting white supremacists do as they like" in this topic at all.

 

[skillzilla81]

People should talk to the owner if they concerned about the alt right being so attracted to them. I don't know why some folks believe the onus is on us to save a private business who shits the bed on PR.

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I'm saying. I literally don't understand how I'm supposed to react to a racist saying racist shit attracting more racists other than saying fuck this company.

 

[DerbyCityDerek]

Except that it frequently devolves into "Don't even tell me that you still eat there.", which is totally ridiculous.

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It's not ridiculous. People are allowed to apply social pressure. In this case, the question of whether or not someone still eats there begs to be followed up with a series of questions.

"Do you know about the reason why I and others are boycotting?"

"If you know (or now that you know), do you still plan to eat there?"

"If you do, is it because you support the controversial opinion or because you simply don't care?"

That whole conversation (for me) has more to do with evaluating the other person than insisting that Papa Johns or whoever go out of business.

 

[Speevy]

"If you do, is it because you support the controversial opinion or because you simply don't care?"
.

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Have you ever worked at a chain store of any kind? Maybe people care, but they care more about their jobs than a single individual who doesn't make decisions on an operational basis.

If you're just trying to make people think about the businesses they support, I understand. But also realize that regular people don't owe you anything because the CEO of Papa John's said something. I worked at a department store and wasn't responsible for the opinions of its CEO there either. There's principle and there's reality, and in the real world, people have bigger problems than just being wrapped up one side of a newspaper headline.

 

[nemoral]

Doing what you think is right is not some tactical equation. Doing the wrong thing, because you think in some mystical long game it will hurt people you don't like, is not only a mug's game, it loses sight of why you're taking action in the first place, which is not to win some unwinnable contest, but because you want to do the right thing.

One of the repeating fallacies of this recent era has been "don't do X or Y will become more Z". This is unequivocally bullshit. You aren't responsible for the actions of the people that hate you. You're responsible for doing what you know is right, even if that looks bad to shitty or apathetic people, even if it means you don't win some temporal contest.

 

[DerbyCityDerek]

Have you ever worked at a chain store of any kind? Maybe people care, but they care more about their jobs than a single individual who doesn't make decisions on an operational basis.

If you're just trying to make people think about the businesses they support, I understand. But also realize that regular people don't owe you anything because the CEO of Papa John's said something. I worked at a department store and wasn't responsible for the opinions of its CEO there either. There's principle and there's reality, and in the real world, people have bigger problems than just being wrapped up one side of a newspaper headline.

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This is a rather significant moving of the goalposts, as we were talking about consumers not employees.

A consumer can freely choose where they spend their money, an employee may not so easily choose where they earn it.

The consumer is more open to criticism for how they spend their money, especially when alternatives are easily available. It's basically no real sacrifice to just get your chain pizza from Dominos or Pizza Hut or Little Caesars instead.

 

[LowMax]

Have you ever worked at a chain store of any kind? Maybe people care, but they care more about their jobs than a single individual who doesn't make decisions on an operational basis.

If you're just trying to make people think about the businesses they support, I understand. But also realize that regular people don't owe you anything because the CEO of Papa John's said something. I worked at a department store and wasn't responsible for the opinions of its CEO there either. There's principle and there's reality, and in the real world, people have bigger problems than just being wrapped up one side of a newspaper headline.

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Agreed. If you are hungry for some Papa John's, the. Goddamn it, get some Papa John's and give the pizza guy a good tip. He needs gas money.

 

[Speevy]

This is a rather significant moving of the goalposts, as we were talking about consumers not employees.

A consumer can freely choose where they spend their money, an employee may not so easily choose where they earn it.

The consumer is more open to criticism for how they spend their money, especially when alternatives are easily available. It's basically no real sacrifice to just get your chain pizza from Dominos or Pizza Hut or Little Caesars instead.

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Sorry I'm tired. It wasn't my intention to move the goalposts.

Okay, so let's say I'm hungry tonight and want to eat Pizza.

Now Papa John's is one option. Following your questions, I know about the controversy and am still considering Papa John's.

So let's say for whatever reason I desire greasy pizza and buy from them.

Do I agree with their CEO? No.

Do I care? Yes. I care about the actual African Americans who work there and benefit at the local level from my money in the immediate future.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Sorry I'm tired. It wasn't my intention to move the goalposts.

Okay, so let's say I'm hungry tonight and want to eat Pizza.

Now Papa John's is one option. Following your questions, I know about the controversy and am still considering Papa John's.

So let's say for whatever reason I desire greasy pizza and buy from them.

Do I agree with their CEO? No.

Do I care? Yes. I care about the actual African Americans who work there and benefit at the local level from my money in the immediate future.

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Then that's your choice in the end. No one is going to crucify you for it. Just like anyone else's choice to not buy PJ's and eat something else due to their CEO doesn't mean they want to rob from the livelihood of low-level employees.

 

[Ashodin]

Article seems dead?

 

[nemoral]

You make your choice and you live with it. You accept that you've decided you'd rather have the pizza than make a statement regarding their behavior. That's up to you entirely. But the idea that you're doing it to support the workers seems like a rationalization.

 

[Speevy]

You make your choice and you live with it. You accept that you've decided you'd rather have the pizza than make a statement regarding their behavior. That's up to you entirely. But the idea that you're doing it to support the workers seems like a rationalization.

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Well I certainly didn't do it for their awful pizza.

 

[nemoral]

Well I certainly didn't do it for their awful pizza.

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No, I suspect you, like I, buy shitty pizza because it's easy and convenient and you're hungry. If it were truly primarily about helping workers, there are much easier and more direct ways of giving money to people. I mean, it's not like you go down to PJ's and hand out five dollar bills without buying a pizza. If you do, then kudos to you, but I think it's more about acquiring sustenance and the fact that in doing so a fraction of your money might help some workers is something of an afterthought.

 

[skullmuffins]

Article seems dead?

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entire newsweek site seems down atm

maybe they tried unionizing

 

[Speevy]

I'm just being hypothetical. I do not actually buy pizza from Papa John's.

What I originally was arguing against is putting other people into the box of fellow travelers for making the decision to continue buying pizza.

I don't judge ANYONE for not buying anything, but they get to judge me? Do I get to ask them the same question about their shoes and cell phones? Because those are equally legitimate questions. I don't however because I understand the realities of needing to walk and call people.

 

[nemoral]

Oh, well that's fine then. Everyone has to make their own call about what they find acceptable and then they have to live with it. That said, you can't really stop people from judging you. No behavior on your part will stop that. People judge each other all the time, usually on minimal information. Each of us has to decide how much value we put in those judgements.

 

[AnansiThePersona]

Glad to know my dad, who buys Papa Johns all the time, is done with them after all this.

 

[Ashodin]

I think Newsweek is getting DDoS'd by Alt right guys

 

[kamineko]

That dude has always been garbage. I gave em up when I heard him whining about workers wanting money and healthcare. Like he was down to his last million or something.

 

[DerbyCityDerek]

Sorry I'm tired. It wasn't my intention to move the goalposts.

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Appreciated. For what little it's worth, I'm not assuming any malice out of you, I'd like to think this is a pretty good-faith conversation here.

Okay, so let's say I'm hungry tonight and want to eat Pizza.

Now Papa John's is one option. Following your questions, I know about the controversy and am still considering Papa John's.

So let's say for whatever reason I desire greasy pizza and buy from them.

Do I agree with their CEO? No.

Do I care? Yes. I care about the actual African Americans who work there and benefit at the local level from my money in the immediate future.

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I'm making a choice not to read maliciously into this, because it's not a great choice of words or argument, and in a lot of cases can be construed as misleading in an emotionally manipulative way. I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but let me explain.

African Americans, I would wager in lack of evidence to the contrary, are not employed at any significantly higher rate by Papa John's than they are by Pizza Hut or Domino's or Little Caesar's. Thus, choosing specifically to give money to Papa John's isn't really any greater expression of "support" for the local economy or African Americans than if you had ordered from any other pizza chain. I mean, I'll grant that it's true that your money does not end up solely in John Schnatter's pocket, but the money that goes where you do want it to is not really that different no matter where you get your pizza.

Now, despite all this, it's totally your right to spend money at Papa John's. I absolutely understand the difference between doing so in explicit support of Schnatter's views and doing so out of simple comfort. However, buying pizza from Papa John's knowing full well that some of your money goes to John Schnatter and the positions he uses his political and financial power to push... well, if you do so out of mere comfort when alternatives are readily available, I'm going to be disappointed in you. Not spiteful, not outraged, not mocking, disappointed.

And my money is where my mouth is on that, I've confronted my own long-term romantic partner about her being a bisexual woman and still giving money to Chick-fil-A, Hobby Lobby, and Kentucky Farm Bureau (an insurance company that similarly weilds its political power in opposition to LGBT people). So at least understand that I'm not some loon preaching at strangers, I have had those uncomfortable conversations with people I love. That's what this means to me, and many people like me.

 

[Wein Cruz]

Which is the best US pizza?

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I love their butcher's block.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

I like papa John's pizza. This is a sad day for me. :-(

 

[Speevy]

Appreciated. For what little it's worth, I'm not assuming any malice out of you, I'd like to think this is a pretty good-faith conversation here.



I'm making a choice not to read maliciously into this, because it's not a great choice of words or argument, and in a lot of cases can be construed as misleading in an emotionally manipulative way. I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but let me explain.

African Americans, I would wager in lack of evidence to the contrary, are not employed at any significantly higher rate by Papa John's than they are by Pizza Hut or Domino's or Little Caesar's. Thus, choosing specifically to give money to Papa John's isn't really any greater expression of "support" for the local economy or African Americans than if you had ordered from any other pizza chain. I mean, I'll grant that it's true that your money does not end up solely in John Schnatter's pocket, but the money that goes where you do want it to is not really that different no matter where you get your pizza.

Now, despite all this, it's totally your right to spend money at Papa John's. I absolutely understand the difference between doing so in explicit support of Schnatter's views and doing so out of simple comfort. However, buying pizza from Papa John's knowing full well that some of your money goes to John Schnatter and the positions he uses his political and financial power to push... well, if you do so out of mere comfort when alternatives are readily available, I'm going to be disappointed in you. Not spiteful, not outrage, not mocking, disappointed.

And my money is where my mouth is on that, I've confronted my own long-term romantic partner about her being a bisexual woman and still giving money to Chick-fil-A, Hobby Lobby, and Kentucky Farm Bureau (an insurance company that similarly weilds its political power in opposition to LGBT people). So at least understand that I'm not some loon preaching at strangers, I have had those uncomfortable conversations with people I love. That's what this means to me, and many people like me.

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I understand your viewpoint and admire your principled stand, truly I do. Please understand that I do not wish to sound flippant or disingenuous to this discussion even though the way I write may sound like that sometimes.

I guess what I'm really saying is that I've been in many discussions (you know where), where people were quickly dogpiled for even disagreeing in a thread just like this. I'm glad to see that you post with courtesy and respect toward me.

Far from misleading, your questions were only hypotheticals to me because as I said, I do not eat at Papa John's. I just don't want to see a perfectly decent, non-racist person being looked down upon for eating pizza at the wrong place. I hope you understand.

 

[bubbles]

I don't like Papa Johns anyway. Eew.

 

[Titik]

Guys, you can laugh all you want about Little Cesar's Pizza but at least they have no pretentious about what they are: $5 pizzas ready to go.

And the founder quietly paid Rosa Parks' rent for years.

Also the $6 'Mostest' pizza is legit.

 

[DerbyCityDerek]

I understand your viewpoint and admire your principled stand, truly I do. Please understand that I do not wish to sound flippant or disingenuous to this discussion even though the way I write may sound like that sometimes.

I guess what I'm really saying is that I've been in many discussions (you know where), where people were quickly dogpiled for even disagreeing in a thread just like this. I'm glad to see that you post with courtesy and respect toward me.

Far from misleading, your questions were only hypotheticals to me because as I said, I do not eat at Papa John's. I just don't want to see a perfectly decent, non-racist person being looked down upon for eating pizza at the wrong place. I hope you understand.

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Absolutely, man. Like I said, I believe that you can't have the same emotional reactions to hypothetical people who support Schnatter's views and those who choose to buy in spite of them. To grossly oversimplify, it's the difference between malice and apathy.

I think people have every right to judge those who support companies like Papa John's out of comfort, but I think disappointment is probably the more appropriate reaction than shouting people down. Can't speak for everyone.

Anyway, I think we've got a pretty good strong understanding of where the other lies. Not a whole lot left to say, I think, but thanks for keeping civil. Makes the exchange of ideas far more pleasant. Peace.

 

[bubbles]

Guys, you can laugh all you want about Little Cesar's Pizza but at least they have no pretentious about what they are: $5 pizzas ready to go.

And the founder quietly paid Rosa Parks' rent for years.

Also the $6 'Mostest' pizza is legit.

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My boyfriend had Little Ceasars about a year and a half ago and wound up getting food poisoning for 2 days from it.

You get what u pay for!

 

[Midnight Jon]

Y'all need to stop. Papa John's pizza is damn good pizza.

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this is about five steps above "deep dish is pizza and not casserole" in the "who hurt you" food sub-department

 

[StreetDisciple]

Unfortunate I actually liked their pizza. Can't eat pizza hut or dominoes...straight garbage. I will stick to these mom and pop shops around me.