Next Gen discussion - the real 4K era

[Cornbread78]

Hello all. Welcome to a topic I hold dear. Best to start it with a little presurface;

The PS4, and Xbox are starting to feel a bit too far behind in terms of power for the future(current for some) TV sets. HDR has been a great addition for PS4 and Xbox one S, though.

We now have the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X pushing games to 4K or FauxK, but alas, it really isn't a leap forward just yet. The true next generation will be 4K standard. I'd personally hope for checkerboard 4K@60fps.

However, the next generation needs more than just 4K/FauxK@60fps. It greatly, I mean GREATLY needs a CPU jump. This will improve AI and other areas of gaming tremendously.

Also. Can we all agree PS5 Late 18/Early 19, followed by Xbox the year after? Also, I feel 10-12 TFLOPS would be expected, and respectable. That could push the 4K/60fps and better AI/etc. Let's all speculate away! Play nice everyone and stay away from arguments







*Thread was created for contributor/member "punkmilitia" If you any specific questions or comments in regards to the content of the OP, please reach out to him directly: https://www.resetera.com/members/punkmilitia.11404/

 

[wotta]

Sorry for being thick. But are you basically saying PS4 Pro and Xbox One X aren't good enough?

 

[Allseeingeye]

I think 60 fps more important than 4k, games already look gorgeous in Checkboard.

As for ps5, 2019 at the earliest, ps4 is up yoy, they are not annoucing ps5 soon.

 

[BigTaffy]

Also. Can we all agree PS5 Late 18/Early 19, followed by Xbox the year after?

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I don't agree at all. PS5 next year? Not a chance.

 

[Ahegao]

Gonna wait for PS5 Pro like I did on the PS4.

 

[wotta]

I think we'll see PS5 in 2020 at the earliest personally. Maybe it will be announced at E3 next year. All depends on how the PS4 continues to sell and what impact Xbox One X and moreso Switch (which will no doubt sell better) has on sales.

 

[IplayGames4Fun]

I don't agree at all. PS5 next year? Not a chance.

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agreed PS5 is 3 years off at least Likely both consoles launch 2021 the PS5 and XB whatever name

 

[Saganator]

I would prefer if it became the 60fps era. Also I highly doubt a powerful CPU will lead to better AI. Devs will use that CPU power to improve graphics, because a pretty screen shot will sell more copies than a "Amazing AI" footnote on the box.

 

[ApeEscaper]

Pixels is temporary, frames is life.
We're playing video games not screenshots.
60fps > 4k

For next gen I would be happy if they pushed around 1080p 60fps while using the rest of system resources towards visual fidelity, ai etc don't waste it just towards more pixels which become less and less discernable while playing on your TV etc.

With the theorised proper CPU that could possibly be in the next gen consoles, no more excuses for no 60fps!

Also more pixels won't affect the gameplay experience while more frames enhances gameplay experience in many ways to note. (Also as a bonus if a game is made in 60fps on console they can more easily make a VR version of it which is beneficial for developers can do a 2 in 1 versions for cheap and quick)

 

[caff!!!]

maybe Nvidia will release the 1270/2170 by then and also have the money for a HDR monitor on top of that so I can experience the thrill of said games

I would prefer if it became the 60fps era. Also I highly doubt a powerful CPU will lead to better AI. Devs will use that CPU power to improve graphics, because a pretty screen shot will sell more copies than a "Amazing AI" footnote on the box.

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60 FPS is doubtful, I expect real 4k!!! or downsampled 6/8k checkerboard to show up. As for AI: I can agree it won't happen as players (in general) like box of rocks AI instead of something that can fool them.

 

[Starlatine]

Also. Can we all agree PS5 Late 18/Early 19, followed by Xbox the year after?

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No.

There will be no new gen till late 19-early 20. If there's even a new generation for microsoft and they don't keep banking on the iterative consoles (doubt it, but it's a possibility, one more plausible than sony shooting their own foot and releasing a PS5 next year)

 

[Deleted member 5764]

While PS4 is selling incredibly well, I think it'd be really short-sighted of Sony to use that as an excuse to delay PS5. As OP noted, certain limitations (primarily CPU related) are starting to hold devs back. I personally think we'll see hints of PS5 next year, with a full reveal/release in 2019/2020. I'm hoping that they also double-down on VR and give us PSVR 2.0 right at launch.

No real thoughts on what's next for Xbox besides it launching after PS5. They seem to have found a good place right now and could potentially just continue iterating on Xbox One.

 

[Deleted member 9486]

I'm in no rush personally. I have no plans to get a 4K TV anytime soon. The two 55" 1080p sets we have are fine for us. Wasteful to replace (we don't need a third TV for just the two of us) TVs we're fine with, especially with the lack of 4K content on cable, Netflix/Redbox not carrying 4K discs etc. (rarely buy movies anymore as we rarely rewatch things etc.).

I agree with the others that I care more about stable 60 FPS than 4K

 

[Clockwork]

Sorry for being thick. But are you basically saying PS4 Pro and Xbox One X aren't good enough?

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Do you disagree? I love the current consoles (I have a PS4 Pro, Xbox One S, and a Switch) and the X looks good too, but it isn't going to give us everything that is being asked for. This is mostly due to cost constraints as nobody wants a PS3 $599 repeate.

As an example:

My 1070 is over a year old and more powerful than either console (and I have a better CPU to boot). It cannot do 4k 60fps in every game. In some it will even have trouble with 4k 30fps (depending on settings).

 

[ShinkuTachi]

I'm with the idea that the next gen of consoles will actually bring 4K gaming to the forefront. Kinda like how this gen did so for 1080p. This gen's 4K is kinda like last gen's 1080p in my eyes, as hardly any game actually utilized it. For example, one of the PS3's selling points was "1080p gaming" and almost 100% of the library didn't even utilize it. There were only a handful of games on PS3 that were native 1080p.

I really don't understand the struggle developers are having with frames though. I've been gaming for years, and I don't recall it being an issue till 7th gen came along. Hopefully some of the more tech savvy members here can enlighten me on why frames had suddenly started being a huge issue a decade ago (and still to this day).

 

[Allseeingeye]

No.

There will be no new gen till late 19-early 20. If there's even a new generation for microsoft and they don't keep banking on the iterative consoles (doubt it, but it's a possibility, one more plausible than sony shooting their own foot and releasing a PS5 next year)

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Agree. I don't get why people think a new gen is so close...the Pro and X will only extend this gen, and thats a good thing, as a new gen would be another huge financial burden on Pubs/devs

 

[Aztechnology]

Next gen should just offer more options in terms of how you want to play. Unless something pretty drastic happens I don't see 4k@60fps happening in the next few years on console. Offering 1080/1440 at 60 would be a very nice option though. The closer they get to PC in terms of options, the happier I am.

 

[New Fang]

Also. Can we all agree PS5 Late 18/Early 19, followed by Xbox the year after?

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No we can't. The earliest I see a PS5 showing up is 2020. The entire industry prefers we have longer console cycles, as it takes so much time and money get game engines running on newer hardware they really want to get to use it for multiple games before moving on.

 

[Clockwork]

Oops! Accidental quote instead of edit

 

[markavacado]

When it comes to PS5, I'll be there day 1. But I would definitely prefer to see games that can do solid 60 frames rather than push for higher resolutions.

 

[Maturin]

We've had powerful enough for 60fps for generations. But we've also had - rightly - the freedom for developers to allocate that power. And so it doesn't matter if the next generation is 50TF you will still see developers choosing complexity, effects and IQ over frame rate.

And that's ok.

 

[ManatuBear]

So far i have no interest in 4k or HDR. I'm quite happy with 1080p. Even when Ps5/Xbx2 come out, i don't think i will bother with a 4k tv.
But i guess i am one of the few that is more interested in good gameplay/story than in graphics.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Why would the next gen be CB 4k when the XB1X is able to do a lot of games at 4K already with high quality textures?

Need better processors to get 60fps.

 

[PunkMilitia]

Sorry for being thick. But are you basically saying PS4 Pro and Xbox One X aren't good enough?

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That is exactly what I'm saying.
Sure they may look good graphically, but they still are not quite there yet(with exceptions to Uncharted/Horizon), but on a more important note the AI and more CPU demanding elements are holding gaming back a fair bit.

 

[Strangelove_77]

Man, I haven't even seen a 4K screen yet.
Anywho, new consoles come out when current consoles stop selling and they can sell a new console with a visually obvious power increase for a low price, not when it's technologically due. I'm not sure we're there yet. How much more powerful can Sony and MS make a console compared to their current consoles for $400?
Besides anecdotal evidence, even people here on ResetEra don't seem to really complain too much about current system's power besides pc gamers who's eyeballs burn off their skull when they play a console game.

 

[v_iHuGi]

Sorry for being thick. But are you basically saying PS4 Pro and Xbox One X aren't good enough?

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For 4K they aren't, next gen will have 99% of the games running at 4K and we might see better fps due to better cpus.

 

[AegonSnake]

I dont want devs to focus on 4k or even checkerboard 4k.

Native 4k will take up 4x the GPU power which means if the next gen consoles are 12 Tflops, we would literally be wasting 9 of those 12 tflops on rendering 4k pixels instead of spending those 9 tflops of better hair, foliage, post processing effects and overall world detail. Who the hell wants a game designed around a 3tflop gpu?

Even if they go with checkerboard 4k, they would be using half of the GPU power or 6 tflops to do it. And no just no. I would gladly wait for a PS5 Pro to run these games at 4k three years after the PS5's launch. Games look fine at 1080p. Just look at Sunhi's gifs. All they have to do is add per object motion blur, lots of high quality AA and you wont notice the kind of blurry image that 1080p games can sometimes have on 4k screens.

60 fps is already a standard for 99% of the fps games, again, i dont want horizon 2 or tlou 2 to waste half of the cpu power on 60 fps. Lets put that extra CPU power to enhance A.I, number of enemies on screen, destructible environments and other visual effects that require cpu computational powers. Horizon, Bloodborne and Uncharted 4 are all 30 fps and play just fine.

 

[Swarley133]

I don't think we'll see the true next-gen until fall of 2019 at least.

 

[Akabeko]

So far i have no interest in 4k or HDR. I'm quite happy with 1080p. Even when Ps5/Xbx2 come out, i don't think i will bother with a 4k tv.
But i guess i am one of the few that is more interested in good gameplay/story than in graphics.

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Why pick one when you could have both? 4K + HDR can make a game with good gameplay and story even more immersive.

 

[UnNamed]

New CPU architecture, something more powerful than those Jaguar cores, maybe Zen or some revision. Any strong GPU can't be handled by a weak CPU.
10 TF GPU, hope 12-13.
7nm manufacture.
16 GB ram.
Native 4K resolution for every game.
Release: 2020.
399$

 

[Allseeingeye]

Why would the next gen be CB 4k when the XB1X is able to do a lot of games at 4K already with high quality textures?

Need better processors to get 60fps.

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Citation needed..what AAA games are doing this?

 

[Lady Gaia]

However, the next generation needs more than just 4K/FauxK@60fps.

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100% agreed. I don't actually see a resolution bump as being an important part of the next generation, at least from a PS4 Pro / Xbox lane X reference point. It should be more like the 7th to 8th generation jump in graphics where both aimed for 1080p but the latter was much more consistent, offered more stable frame rates, and dialed up the per-pixel quality significantly.

It greatly, I mean GREATLY needs a CPU jump.

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Absolutely. That's the one area where the current generation doesn't really show significant gains over the generation before. Generous memory pools and GPU performance allowed for some meaningful gameplay evolution, but it's time for another jump forward.

Also. Can we all agree PS5 Late 18/Early 19, followed by Xbox the year after?

Click to shrink...

That's where you lose me entirely. I would be absolutely shocked to see a PS5 before 2019 and 2020 seems at least as likely. I'm a lot less clear on how I think Microsoft is likely to proceed, but the default assumption is that they'll both launch when the 7nm process node is sufficiently mature for cost-effective volume production.

 

[Allseeingeye]

So far i have no interest in 4k or HDR. I'm quite happy with 1080p. Even when Ps5/Xbx2 come out, i don't think i will bother with a 4k tv.
But i guess i am one of the few that is more interested in good gameplay/story than in graphics.

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it's almost like you can have both......I don't get posts like this ..at all. They are video games, the tech is important as is immersion. good devs mange both all the time. We don't stop progress, tech improves, and we take advantage as we should.

 

[zedox]

PlayStation 5 and Xbox v.Next won't release until 2020/2021. Please remember that 4K still isn't in a lot of homes. In order to take advantage of the resolutions that these machines will do, the monitors need to be out there in people's homes. Giving it 3-4 years would be perfect in my eyes. Plus, to me, I'd rather let this gen last longer so devs can focus on making good games on the platforms that they know before worrying about moving to yet another new platform.

 

[ApeEscaper]

60 fps is already a standard for 99% of the fps games, again, i dont want horizon 2 or tlou 2 to waste half of the cpu power on 60 fps. Lets put that extra CPU power to enhance A.I, number of enemies on screen, destructible environments and other visual effects that require cpu computational powers. Horizon, Bloodborne and Uncharted 4 are all 30 fps and play just fine.

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If it's a Ryzen CPU or similar even at 60fps it would still have plenty of CPU resources left towards all that you mention on top especially compared to the measly Jaguar CPU's inside today's consoles, leagues above.

Also they can still have a 60fps mode option at the very least it's totally doable

 

[Allseeingeye]

PlayStation 5 and Xbox v.Next won't release until 2020/2021. Please remember that 4K still isn't in a lot of homes. In order to take advantage of the resolutions that these machines will do, the monitors need to be out there in people's homes. Giving it 3-4 years would be perfect in my eyes. Plus, to me, I'd rather let this gen last longer so devs can focus on making good games on the platforms that they know before worrying about moving to yet another new platform.

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Totally agree...the pro and one X are going to just extend this gen.

 

[spookyghost]

I think we'll see the PS5 in 2019 simply because if I were Sony/MS I'd really be aiming for iterative hardware released every 3 years with as fully harmonious an ecosystem as possible. Follow the mobile phone idea of getting people locked in to your ecosystem and having content carry over to your new numbered model. Consoles are less than half the price of a flagship phone, a new numbered iteration every 6 years with a pro/X in between seems a perfectly reasonable upgrade cycle that also caters to more casual buyers and will keep hardware sales strong while pushing the real product, the brand, online services and community.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Also. Can we all agree PS5 Late 18/Early 19, followed by Xbox the year after?

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Nope. We can however discuss this.

What's more, this gen shouldn't be limited to Full HD resolution gaming. One of the real improvements towards last gen is the possibility to easily share content.

Looking forward to whatever Sony and MS come up with next gen. I just hope it isn't limited to more CPU power, 4Kish gaming, or even worse, some stupid gimmick everyone has to pay for.

 

[2112]

PS5 is totally going to use checkerboarding.

 

[borges]

PS5 wont be released in 18, nor 19. 20, maybe, if PS4 sales decline by a wide margin.

 

[Chocobo Blade]

I still have yet to buy a current gen console lol

 

[SLB1904]

i want ps5 in 2021. tlous 2 shows that there is a lot of juice in these machines and its probably a 2019 game

 

[Deleted member 18161]

The earliest I expect PS5 is late 2020. By then it can have a Zen 2.0 CPU @ 3GHz, 32GB's of HBM2 RAM and a 15tflop GPU for $399. Most developers will hopefully target 4k(sometimes checkerboard 4k)/60fps.

 

[TiG]

I would like to see dynamic resolutions and variable frame rates. I believe the new HDMI standard supports this. Additionally there could be an option to prefer resolution or framerate.


60 fps with 'fake' 4k
Or native 4k with 30-40+ fps

 

[caff!!!]

Also they can still have a 60fps mode option at the very least it's totally doable

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Consider the FH3 on PC performing poor at launch mess as to how it might not be possible. Poor threading, code not made for running past 30hz, and GPU limits all play a role, and fixing that costs money that most likely will not be made back

 

[Thatguy]

I'm a lot more interested in fidelity, effects, world size, view distance, and polygon count than resolution. That nice 1080p 55" Samsung i bought a few years ago is supposed to last 20 years. You have to have really good vision or sit really close or go mammoth size screen for most to see the difference between 1080 and 4K. I don't think it's happening next gen. Now VR focus could be interesting though.

 

[ApeEscaper]

Consider the FH3 on PC performing poor at launch mess as to how it might not be possible. Poor threading, code not made for running past 30hz, and GPU limits all play a role, and fixing that costs money that most likely will not be made back

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For PC they had to optimise for multiple different hardware configurations and CPU's, on the console space everyone has one same CPU and solving that will be quicker, simpler and cheaper

 

[Stowaway Silfer]

I don't agree at all. PS5 next year? Not a chance.

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Agreed! It'll come out in late 2019 at the earliest. Maybe Q1 of 2020 since the Switch showed that's a viable timeframe.

 

[Deleted member 9486]

Do you disagree? I love the current consoles (I have a PS4 Pro, Xbox One S, and a Switch) and the X looks good too, but it isn't going to give us everything that is being asked for. This is mostly due to cost constraints as nobody wants a PS3 $599 repeate.

As an example:

My 1070 is over a year old and more powerful than either console (and I have a better CPU to boot). It cannot do 4k 60fps in every game. In some it will even have trouble with 4k 30fps (depending on settings).

Click to shrink...

Not everyone cares about that stuff and just wants to play games and not have to shell our for new hardware every 3-5 years.

PS4 is still selling well, should really get a boost next year with games like God of War, Spider-Man, TLOU2 etc.

Only way I see a PS5 is if it's really just another iterative console that both has full PS4 backwards compatibility, but also has PS5 games playable downscaled on PS4. They'll have too big a base to move on from.

People that care so much about graphics and performance are better off going your route and being PC gamers with consoles on the side if they want the exclusives, have friends they want to play with their etc.

Myself I'm kind of older and sick of the tech rat race. Done upgrading TVs, done upgrading phones every 2 years (will just this 6s I have as long as possible, and probably won't early adopt new consoles again. Outside of Nintendo anyway as they often have a killer launch game and take for ever to drop in pricing anyway.

 

[PunkMilitia]

New CPU architecture, something more powerful than those Jaguar cores, maybe Zen or some revision. Any strong GPU can't be handled by a weak CPU.
10 TF GPU, hope 12-13.
7nm manufacture.
16 GB ram.
Native 4K resolution for every game.
Release: 2020.
399$

Click to shrink...

Hit the nail on the head, but I feel it will be more $499.

100% agreed. I don't actually see a resolution bump as being an important part of the next generation, at least from a PS4 Pro / Xbox lane X reference point. It should be more like the 7th to 8th generation jump in graphics where both aimed for 1080p but the latter was much more consistent, offered more stable frame rates, and dialed up the per-pixel quality significantly.



Absolutely. That's the one area where the current generation doesn't really show significant gains over the generation before. Generous memory pools and GPU performance allowed for some meaningful gameplay evolution, but it's time for another jump forward.



That's where you lose me entirely. I would be absolutely shocked to see a PS5 before 2019 and 2020 seems at least as likely. I'm a lot less clear on how I think Microsoft is likely to proceed, but the default assumption is that they'll both launch when the 7nm process node is sufficiently mature for cost-effective volume production.

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Oh, yes it would have to be 19/20 because of the new node. My mistake