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Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019

When will the first 'next gen' console be revealed?

  • First half of 2019

    Votes: 258 15.4%
  • Second half of 2019(let's say post E3)

    Votes: 696 41.6%
  • First half of 2020

    Votes: 699 41.8%
  • 2021 :^)

    Votes: 19 1.1%

  • Total voters
    1,672
Dec 15, 2017
305
If we’re going to believe that 1TB ssd rumor, what if these slides where real after all..



I actually don’t see Anaconda and PS5 differing too much in specs. If PS5 really had these specs, if MS still wanted to keep their ‘strongest system’ crown, they would really have to overspend and overcharge to create a system stronger than the one above, and I don’t think that it would sit right with investors and MS upper management... unless they also have a second system that’s much cheaper to make and would make a profit from day one to make up for the higher end system 🤔.
No matter how much outlandish this sounds, these sorts of specs are the only thing that could allow for a true generational leap. Although I could see them using a hybrid storage solution or offering 500GB SSD for the $499 SKU.
 
Oct 25, 2017
877
People think that console manufacturers are incorporating Nasa dark matter space age shit into there consoles.

But at the end of the day its rather straightforward.
I think the biggest mystery is price.

$399 just isn't the same in consumer electronics as it was in 2013.

It's going to be an 8 core zen variant, it will have a 11-15tflop gpu and 16-24gb of GDDR6, graphics will be Similer to tech demos made on gtx 1080s.

Its going to like that, I can almost guarantee it.
This doesn't sound terrible to me. I've got an eight year old PC running a 1070. I'd hope next gen consoles have better performance than that at least.
 
Oct 27, 2017
722
ATL
Not sure if this has any barring on the console APUs, but:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1385...nt-on-matisse-cpu-tdp-range-same-as-ryzen2000

Anandtech said:
AMD stated that, at this time, there will be no version of the current Matisse chiplet layout where one of those chiplets will be graphics. We were told that there will be Zen 2 processors with integrated graphics, presumably coming out much later after the desktop processors, but built in a different design. Ultimately APUs are both mobile first as well as lower cost parts (usually), so different design decisions will have to be made in order to support that market.
 
Feb 10, 2018
6,186
This doesn't sound terrible to me. I've got an eight year old PC running a 1070. I'd hope next gen consoles have better performance than that at least.
It will be a big leap over your 1070 pc, because they won't be shackled by 2012 hardware (your PC will also see a bump because of this to).

We can expect the usual bump in polygons, texture quality, plus new technologys introduced.
If nvidia are correct when they say Ray tracing is the be all and end all of graphics it seems so crazy that MS and Sony won't include it in some form.
We know that RTX2060 is caperble of pretty good Ray traced reflections. So if MS and Sony wanted to I think they could make a game with some good Ray traced elements at 1440p.
I guess if consoles don't have Ray tracing, the PC will have a kind of graphical Renaissance, I bet in 2023 PC GPUs will be powerful enough and the RTX tech will be mature enough that other graphical elements beside reflections will also use Ray tracing.

GOD.... I hope we don't have RAY TRACING mid gens....
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,055
They are simply saying that Zen 2 will get integrated graphics at some point, meaning the current chiplet isn’t a magical one-size-fits-all solution. We never doubted they could make a console monolithic APU.

The existence of a chiplet Zen 2 for normal desktop users caused us to reconsider because it means the economics of an IO die still makes sense for desktop products in the $100-$400 price category.
 
Oct 27, 2017
602
Seattle, WA
I just want a Ryzen APU with good graphics memory bandwidth! I want my ultra-light gaming laptop that can do some esports gaming.
A 4 core Ryzen with a 2TF integrated GPU and >150GB/s would be perfect. They need to figure out how to add bandwidth to the APUs.

The easiest way would be to add 2GB-4GB of HBM3 to the APU itself. Esram can also solve it but might be too hard to support.
 
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Oct 8, 2018
843
This statement about no APUs is interesting, considering there actually were rumors about PS5 not having an APU in the past.
 
Oct 8, 2018
843
Discrete GPU and CPU?!
Its not the first time we had rumors about this. There was an article from 2017 that mentioned a source within the industry told them it is discrete gpu instead of APU, iirc there was also a rumor from a chinese forum that mentioned the same. Maybe this really is happening.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,248
If they go with discrete parts then would that make a Pro model several years later easier to design? I'm trying to think of advantages of ditching APUs this time, aside from having a bigger GPU (right?).
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,055
3.7GHz, 8C/16T 32MB L3 all in a 65W TDP. Matches Intel 9900K cinebench performance at half the power and gimped memory speeds.

Zen+ (2700) does the same TDP at 3.2GHz, so the 2.8GHz 2700E at 45W may be low-balling next gen console CPUs. I think we could see up to 3.2GHz.


2700 scores 1561 in cinebench multi-threaded, so Zen 2 sees about a 33% uplift at the same TDP. Control for an increase in base clock from 3.2 to 3.7GHz and you get 15%, or exactly what IPC range people have been predicting.
 
Last edited:
Oct 8, 2018
843
If they go with discrete parts then would that make a Pro model several years later easier to design? I'm trying to think of advantages of ditching APUs this time, aside from having a bigger GPU (right?).
I guess discrete means potential for bigger gpu die right? Or alternatively, using 2 small dies rather than one large die might be cost effective.
 
Nov 3, 2017
262
UK
People think that console manufacturers are incorporating Nasa dark matter space age shit into there consoles.

But at the end of the day its rather straightforward.
I think the biggest mystery is price.

$399 just isn't the same in consumer electronics as it was in 2013.

It's going to be an 8 core zen variant, it will have a 11-15tflop gpu and 16-24gb of GDDR6, graphics will be Similer to tech demos made on gtx 1080s.

Its going to like that, I can almost guarantee it.
While this is probably true the difference between the capability of the top and bottom end of what you posted is pretty significant.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
466
If they go with discrete parts then would that make a Pro model several years later easier to design? I'm trying to think of advantages of ditching APUs this time, aside from having a bigger GPU (right?).
The "discrete" distinction isn't as meaningful in a world with these Zen CPU chiplets. It's not like a PC with a CPU and a graphics card. It'll be like an APU where the CPU cores just happen to be outside the main chip on the same package.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,014
PA - US
People think that console manufacturers are incorporating Nasa dark matter space age shit into there consoles.

But at the end of the day its rather straightforward.
I think the biggest mystery is price.

$399 just isn't the same in consumer electronics as it was in 2013.

It's going to be an 8 core zen variant, it will have a 11-15tflop gpu and 16-24gb of GDDR6, graphics will be Similer to tech demos made on gtx 1080s.

Its going to like that, I can almost guarantee it.
That all sounds great to me! Throw in an SSD with those specs for Anaconda and whatever special "chip" Microsoft has cooked up and I'd gladly pay another $500.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,055
What are the pros and cons of having a discrete GPU/CPU instead an APU?
Pros:
Better overall yield
More fine-grain binning of parts for performance
More parts per wafer
Theoretical increase in max economical die size

Cons:
Increased packaging costs
More power spent on IO
Unknown latency impacts
 
Sep 24, 2018
168
Pros:
Better overall yield
More fine-grain binning of parts for performance
More parts per wafer
Theoretical increase in max economical die size

Cons:
Increased packaging costs
More power spent on IO
Unknown latency impacts
Thanks!

And could it be any performance differences or it would only affect yield/economic aspects?
 
Oct 27, 2017
925
I dont see Sony getting any exclusivity on Navi. AMD wants to get these chips into millions of gamers hands and the consoles are a great way of doing that. While xbox might not sell as great as Playstation, AMD isnt thinking that by giving Sony special access, they will make more money. Navi will also have PC cards as well.

I think MS is most likely doing their own Navi customizations in house. I believe MS have developed their own chips for things like the Surface, and Holo lens. IDK if Sony has a team that does those same customizations, so it could explain why AMD is working so close with Sony. Or perhaps its a special custom gpu that is based on Navi.

Brad Sams has said that Scarlet will use a AMD's next gen gpu tech and he was referring to Navi.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,885
Germany
About no GPU parts on Ryzen 3000:
To have no GPU parts on the new Ryzen 2000 CPU series is part of the Ryzen CPU Desktop Processor strategy and has nothing to do with their semi-custom business strategy. The new APUs for consoles could be very well a multi die package or a monolithic die again.
 
Last edited:
Oct 29, 2017
861
I have a question. I keep hearing how ray tracing is the holy grail for graphics, and while I don't doubt how important it will be going forward, is it THE holy grail or A holy grail? Are there other future techs we are anticipating that are equally as amazing but just aren't talked about as much? Just curious. Thanks for any answers! :)
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,055
I have a question. I keep hearing how ray tracing is the holy grail for graphics, and while I don't doubt how important it will be going forward, is it THE holy grail or A holy grail? Are there other future techs we are anticipating that are equally as amazing but just aren't talked about as much? Just curious. Thanks for any answers! :)
The reason ray tracing is so highly regarded is because it’s an actual physical approximation of how light reflects in environments. Rasterization is just an approximation. One that we’ve gotten very good at, mind you.

Once we get there, it will be about increasing the number of light sources, increasing ray density, increasing number of bounces, better modeling of how surfaces reflect (roughness, e.g.) but the base technique remains the same.
 
Oct 29, 2017
861
The reason ray tracing is so highly regarded is because it’s an actual physical approximation of how light reflects in environments. Rasterization is just an approximation. One that we’ve gotten very good at, mind you.

Once we get there, it will be about increasing the number of light sources, increasing ray density, increasing number of bounces, better modeling of how surfaces reflect (roughness, e.g.) but the base technique remains the same.
I understand that part of things, I'm just curious if there are other technologies on the horizon that would be viewed as being equally as game changing as ray tracing. I can't say I've heard of any and just wanted to ask if there was anything else that would also be considered "the next big thing".
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,055
I understand that part of things, I'm just curious if there are other technologies on the horizon that would be viewed as being equally as game changing as ray tracing. I can't say I've heard of any and just wanted to ask if there was anything else that would also be considered "the next big thing".
Game physics still has a long way to grow in terms of physical accuracy. Persistent world states, including physical destruction.

Game AI can improve a lot. Imagine AI that could learn and wasn’t a static set of behaviors. Imagine NPCs that could be programmed with abstract ambitions and goals. As AI grows in the commercial and research world, there will be a wealth of research to pull from for making AI that are more human like, can process their surroundings, do path-finding, and a whole host of other “normal” human behaviors.

A lot of these things are somewhat inscrutable in the sense that it’s not a feature tick box we can all objectively see and measure. These kinds of advances will come to define what “feels” next gen.
 
Oct 29, 2017
861
Game physics still has a long way to grow in terms of physical accuracy. Persistent world states, including physical destruction.

Game AI can improve a lot. Imagine AI that could learn and wasn’t a static set of behaviors. Imagine NPCs that could be programmed with abstract ambitions and goals. As AI grows in the commercial and research world, there will be a wealth of research to pull from for making AI that are more human like, can process their surroundings, do path-finding, and a whole host of other “normal” human behaviors.

A lot of these things are somewhat inscrutable in the sense that it’s not a feature tick box we can all objectively see and measure. These kinds of advances will come to define what “feels” next gen.
Great response, thanks!
 
Mar 24, 2018
54
Game physics still has a long way to grow in terms of physical accuracy. Persistent world states, including physical destruction.

Game AI can improve a lot. Imagine AI that could learn and wasn’t a static set of behaviors. Imagine NPCs that could be programmed with abstract ambitions and goals. As AI grows in the commercial and research world, there will be a wealth of research to pull from for making AI that are more human like, can process their surroundings, do path-finding, and a whole host of other “normal” human behaviors.

A lot of these things are somewhat inscrutable in the sense that it’s not a feature tick box we can all objectively see and measure. These kinds of advances will come to define what “feels” next gen.
I hope they take another look at audio, if they could bring spatial audio similar to "Steam Audio" and bake it into AMDs TrueAudio then I would be extremely happy.
With the more powerful CPU, I believe this would be the best timing for it.

I'm tired of hearing sounds directly through 3 meter thick concrete wall, when it should be propagate from a window or other openings.
However, I doubt we'll get this feature. Simply because it isn't a visual improvement and most people probably wouldn't notice.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,055
I hope they take another look at audio, if they could bring spatial audio similar to "Steam Audio" and bake it into AMDs TrueAudio then I would be extremely happy.
With the more powerful CPU, I believe this would be the best timing for it.

I'm tired of hearing sounds directly through 3 meter thick concrete wall, when it should be propagate from a window or other openings.
However, I doubt we'll get this feature. Simply because it isn't a visual improvement and most people probably wouldn't notice.
Agree that big improvements could be made here too, but audio is used so often as an aid to players that utility is priorities over accuracy.

Only 1TB for a next-gen console? SSD or not, that's gonna be a big no-no.
2TBs are the biggest mainstream 2.5 drives these days (4TB is rare and more expensive than some 1TB SSDs). 1TB is not bad at all.
 
Nov 1, 2017
164
This doesn't sound terrible to me. I've got an eight year old PC running a 1070. I'd hope next gen consoles have better performance than that at least.
The thing to keep in mind... I mean always keep in mind, is that we don't know what is capable a 1070 or a 1080 (and obviously even less a 1080ti) as long as these card aren't the base development for games. One thing is to run games coded for a HD 7850 (or even less), another is to create a game on the basis of one of the Pascal cards i have cited. We will know it in the next decade for sure.
 
Feb 19, 2018
3,671
Brad Sams is hearing that Anaconda will have an SSD of up to 1 TB .
So the leaked slides we all poopooed due to the SSD and high amounts of RAM....we have a Japanese analyst on a japanese language site saying Sony is looking to greatly increase the ram in ps5 and MS might have a 1tb ssd. Maybe we should look at those slides again
 
Nov 1, 2017
164
So the leaked slides we all poopooed due to the SSD and high amounts of RAM....we have a Japanese analyst on a japanese language site saying Sony is looking to greatly increase the ram in ps5 and MS might have a 1tb ssd. Maybe we should look at those slides again
I have missed it... where is it?
 
Feb 19, 2018
3,671
I have missed it... where is it?
Someone posted it in the old thread, trying to scrounge it up myself. But yeah, it puts the leak in a new perspective as I think (if I recall correctly) that the math was cruched on the teraflop count for Navi and based on what we know was plausible
 
Oct 25, 2017
507
I'm not an expert, but a full 1TB SSD seems like an inefficient use of BOM next to using a NAND cache or similar with a bigger HDD. Am I missing something?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,425
Game physics still has a long way to grow in terms of physical accuracy. Persistent world states, including physical destruction.

Game AI can improve a lot. Imagine AI that could learn and wasn’t a static set of behaviors. Imagine NPCs that could be programmed with abstract ambitions and goals. As AI grows in the commercial and research world, there will be a wealth of research to pull from for making AI that are more human like, can process their surroundings, do path-finding, and a whole host of other “normal” human behaviors.

A lot of these things are somewhat inscrutable in the sense that it’s not a feature tick box we can all objectively see and measure. These kinds of advances will come to define what “feels” next gen.
How could you forget animation .
Animation has a long way to go in games hoping to see next gen help more games get to RDR2\TLOU2 level easier .