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When will the first 'next gen' console be revealed?

  • First half of 2019

    Votes: 593 15.6%
  • Second half of 2019(let's say post E3)

    Votes: 1,361 35.9%
  • First half of 2020

    Votes: 1,675 44.2%
  • 2021 :^)

    Votes: 161 4.2%

  • Total voters
    3,790
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
Because they can't make an good high end GPU.

Fury, Fury X = Fail
Vega = Fail
Vega 7nm = Fail

They are good in the mid range, I have the RX580 it is a great 1080p card. Maybe they should focus on the mid range and APU's they can deliver good hardware for decent price.

They need to make high-end chips to compete in the datacenter anyway. If you're going to compete there you may as well try to adapt those designs to the upper end of the consumer GPU market. There is no benefit to not competing in markets where you are capable of earning a profit. You want to try to maximize the potential sales generated by every dollar you spend on R&D and that means turning that R&D into as many products in as many markets and market segments as possible that can make you money.
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
c) You have to have a tested fully functional GPU part that works as intended before you incorporate it in any SOC. Otherwise you would have to deal with the same issues twice instead just once.

I don't know if this is necessarily true. Orbis's SoC was more like a beefed-up Bonaire (which launched after the PS4) than it was the 7850-analog most thought of it as due to the comparable specs and the Xbox 360's GPU wasn't based on an existing PC GPU design.

Edit:OK, I lied. Still not sure about your premise, though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,135
Somewhere South
c) You have to have a tested fully functional GPU part that works as intended before you incorporate it in any SOC. Otherwise you would have to deal with the same issues twice instead just once.

Kinda sorta, but not really. There's the GPU design and the die design. You can have an issue with a die design that isn't inherent to the GPU design, in which case you'd have to retape that die but that wouldn't necessarily delay any of the work on derivatives from that GPU design (even though it would certainly trigger a bunch of reviews).
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,088
Do the math on that. If you normally purchase one game a month, you could subscribe to 6 of these services @ $10 a piece and break even while having access to a vast library during that month. If you normally buy one game every two months than you can subscribe to any three for two months and break even. Any less than that and you probably don't need to be subscribed to multiple services at any one time. Now, it remains to be seen how easy/difficult it will be to activate/de-activate subscriptions, but it's not really hard to see a bunch of cases where the consumer comes out ahead from a $$$ spent per game played standpoint.

I did do the math and it does not work out for me.
First it going to end being more than 10 a month anyone that think other wise kidding there self .
Second i play games like SFV or MHW which i play for months \years i so will have to keep on subbing .
That is not counting other games i buy and play online from other companies.
Also i don't care about a vast library cause i buy what i want on day 1 everything else i can get on sale which happens rather often now.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,088
*looks at the absolutely endless Steam backlog, while still playing the same 2 or 3 games over and over*

This almost start happening to me when consoles start getting many sales lol.
It was sort like a addiction spending loads of money since it add up and not playing the games.
Have a friend who also trying to cut down on this now that he has kids .
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
I did do the math and it does not work out for me.
First it going to end being more than 10 a month anyone that think other wise kidding there self .
Second i play games like SFV or MHW which i play for months \years i so will have to keep on subbing .
That is not counting other games i buy and play online from other companies.
Also i don't care about a vast library cause i buy what i want on day 1 everything else i can get on sale which happens rather often now.

You are not everyone. You shouldn't SYH at people who may have different gaming habits than you. Game streaming probably isn't for me, but that doesn't mean people who do find it appealing deserve my scorn.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
Literally, all I engaged on was, "why should I believe this just because Phil Spencer said it" and I pointed out why. And then I further pointed out that you are showing yourself to be more accepting of statements that reinforce your existing point of view than statements that contradict it.

Then you misunderstood my position and the discussion. I won't deny being more accepting of a developer's stated concern for a remuneration model he (as a business person) sees as a threat to his livelihood, versus a statement about positive sales metrics for games on GamePass that wasn't qualified with any further information.

The former statement deals with a potential threat to the content creators of this industry. The latter isn't really relevant to the former, and therefore wasn't even a view that "contradicted my own". It was a tangential point at best, which while valid, doesn't offer anything further for discussion beyond conjecture and speculation.

I personally feel that this devs thoughts absolutely hold weight and should be part of the discussion as should the stated sales metrics from GamePass. In the latter case, they are indicating something. What, most likely, are the underlying causes of the stated metrics?

The sales metrics for GamePass hold weight in a discussion about GamePass, which this originally wasn't. The dev who tweeted the original tweet even stated that he wasn't making any reference to GamePass or PSNow because their remuneration models for content producers are more agreeable.

In which case, I stand by my original statement that the GamePass discussion is hardly relevant to the dev's stated concerns.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
Back on topic:

Wccftech speculates about reasons for Navi PC delay till October:

"Another reason could be that the Navi GPUs are also allegedly going to be featured in next-gen consoles and AMD would want to dedicate a good chunk of supply for those before they ship the chips out to AIBs for production of desktop-based Radeon RX graphics cards."
https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-7nm-radeon-rx-gpus-delayed-q4-2019/

cc: Colbert :)

As others have pointed out, it doesn't add up. Navi chips likely won't be going directly to consoles, and the idea that there's finite wafer availability is a little flimsy too given TSMC seeing shrinking demand due to weak mobile phone sales.

The thing with the semi-custom business is that it is large volume, small margin but very, very low risk. It's virtually guaranteed profit. It's the polar opposite of the dedicated GPU business. Revenue earned doesn't even begin to paint the picture, here.

People don't realize how much semicustom saved AMD's ass in the dark years. Without semi-custom, they may have been gobbled up by someone else by now.

Question, what do we know about Sony's ICE team? I know supposedly they work out of Naughty Dog's offices, but how big are they? Is being part of the ICE team their full job, or are they Naughty Dog devs that also do this? Always wondered about this and there doesn't seem to be much info out there.

Also someone on Era mentioned they might be making a second ICE team? Any word on this?

There was a post for a lead developer in the London area, I believe. It sounded like an ICE-like group for optimizations.

Sony are looking for a graphics engineer for their R&D team in London, and they ask for experience with modern GI techniques or ray tracing... very interesting.
The same job position also mentions development of next gen games.
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/1089814655/
 
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M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
Then you misunderstood my position and the discussion.

You didn't address the specific statements you made that made me interpret your position that way, but whatever. Like I said, I'll take your word for it.


The sales metrics for GamePass hold weight in a discussion about GamePass, which this originally wasn't. The dev who tweeted the original tweet even stated that he wasn't making any reference to GamePass or PSNow because their remuneration models for content producers are more agreeable.

In which case, I stand by my original statement that the GamePass discussion is hardly relevant to the dev's stated concerns.

The dev mentions Gamepass directly, though, in his tweets. The tweets were introduced into this thread characterized by the poster as being "About Gamepass type of services and subscription business model...". That's a strange way to introduce a subject where GamePass isn't relevant.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
You didn't address the specific statements you made that made me interpret your position that way, but whatever. Like I said, I'll take your word for it.

Questioning the lack of context given to understand a statement =/= questioning the validity of a statement.

I was asked by a previous poster to essentially shut up and believe Phil, when asking for a qualification of Phil's statement to simply understand to what Phil was referring to. My response that you got hung up on, was merely trying to point out how silly such a notion was.

The dev mentions Gamepass directly, though, in his tweets. The tweets were introduced into this thread characterized by the poster a being "About Gamepass type of services and subscription business model...". That's a strange way to introduce a subject that's not about GamePass.

GamePass was never the focus of the tweets and to me at least it was obvious the concerns were expressed on the basis of the remuneration model for developers. The mere fact that a "GamePass-like service" was mentioned, doesn't suddenly retroactively make the whole discussion and stated concerns about GamePass. That would be a rather odd reading of the tweets.
 

kungfuian

Banned
Jan 24, 2018
278
Phil claims that Gamepass gamers are more engaged and buy more. But the key question is more than who? More than the same users before they subscribed to game pass? Or is he comparing all gamepass users vs all non-game pass users.

That is a huge difference in comparison with vastly different results. If it's the later Phil's statement just seems obvious and is also more than a bit misleading (in traditional PR form).

If I have already subscribed to this service of course I will engage more in the ecosystem. That's like running a restaurant and all of a sudden offering a buffet and then claiming people are now eating more.

And as far as game/content sales of course these gamers buy/spend more than their non game pass subscribers because it's core gamers who are likely to have signed up for such a service so early in it's life cycle. It is known they spend more. It's like saying core gamers spend more than non-core gamers at this point.

So basically he said a whole lot of nothing.
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
Questioning the lack of context given to understand a statement =/= questioning the validity of a statement.

I was asked by a previous poster to essentially shut up and believe Phil, when asking for a qualification of Phil's statement to simply understand to what Phil was referring to. My response that you got hung up on, was merely trying to point out how silly such a notion was.

I keep trying to let this drop. I had reason to believe you were questioning the veracity of the statements based on you specifically stating they couldn't be verified, could be false, or only partially true. That's not an unreasonable reading of those statements. That's the last I'll say on it.

GamePass was never the focus of the tweets and to me at least it was obvious the concerns were expressed on the basis of the remuneration model for developers. The mere fact that a "GamePass-like service" was mentioned, doesn't suddenly retroactively make the whole discussion and stated concerns about GamePass. That would be a rather odd reading of the tweets.

GamePass sales data is completely relevant to whether developers who choose to participate with GamePass or a similar service are going to be properly compensated no matter what the remuneration model is because once you determine the level of engagement you would need to sufficiently benefit from being attached to the service you can try to determine whether that level of engagement is realistically achievable for a given game on Gamepass or a service like it. In this case, some information to start trying to figure that out is better than none.
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
Phil claims that Gamepass gamers are more engaged and buy more. But the key question is more than who? More than the same users before they subscribed to game pass? Or is he comparing all gamepass users vs all non-game pass users.

That is a huge difference in comparison with vastly different results. If it's the later Phil's statement just seems obvious and is also more than a bit misleading (in traditional PR form).

If I have already subscribed to this service of course I will engage more in the ecosystem. That's like running a restaurant and all of a sudden offering a buffet and then claiming people are now eating more.

And as far as game/content sales of course these gamers buy/spend more than their non game pass subscribers because it's core gamers who are likely to have signed up for such a service so early in it's life cycle. It is known they spend more. It's like saying core gamers spend more than non-core gamers at this point.

So basically he said a whole lot of nothing.

Confirming the expected is not saying nothing, but I agree with the bolded.
 

Deleted member 12635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,198
Germany
I don't know if this is necessarily true. Orbis's SoC was more like a beefed-up Bonaire (which launched after the PS4) than it was the 7850-analog most thought of it as due to the comparable specs and the Xbox 360's GPU wasn't based on an existing PC GPU design.

Edit:OK, I lied. Still not sure about your premise, though.
Kinda sorta, but not really. There's the GPU design and the die design. You can have an issue with a die design that isn't inherent to the GPU design, in which case you'd have to retape that die but that wouldn't necessarily delay any of the work on derivatives from that GPU design (even though it would certainly trigger a bunch of reviews).
If the design doesn't work on dedicated GPU silicon as intended how do you think it would work in a more complex SOC design? The tape-out is the only way to to test a design as real hardware. What may have worked on simulated hardware could end up not working on the silicon for whatever reasons. If such results forces you to re-tape than there is a major issue that cannot fixed with just microcode changes or by deactivating areas.

Btw I don't disagree on the idea that the GPU and SOC have parallel tape outs, what I doubt is that an alleged console SOCs is already in production and eat up capacities while the Navi design has still issues and needs to be tested again. That makes absolutely no sense to me unless the SOC design is not based Navi. And I think we all agree on that not using Navi as the base technology would be a bad idea; right?
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
GamePass sales data is completely relevant to whether developers who choose to participate with GamePass or a similar service are going to be properly compensated no matter what the remuneration model is because once you determine the level of engagement you would need to sufficiently benefit from being attached to the service you can try to determine whether that level of engagement is realistically achievable for a given game on Gamepass or a service like it. In this case, some information to start trying to figure that out is better than none.

GamePass is relevant to a discussion about GamePass, which as I've already stated, the discussion in the developer tweet wasn't.

At this point it just seems as if your interest is with reading GamePass into a discussion about something unrelated, which isn't a discussion I was having, so best to end it here.

This is all way off topic anyway, so let's just leave it at that.
 

ZeroDS

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
3,419
Has there been any news regarding Backwards Compat for the PS5? I feel like they have to do something to combat Xbox (and also it would be a dream to be able to play games from ps1 to ps3)
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
GamePass is relevant to a discussion about GamePass, which as I've already stated, the discussion in the developer tweet wasn't.

At this point it just seems as if your interest is with reading GamePass into a discussion about something unrelated, which isn't a discussion I was having, so best to end it here.

This is all way off topic anyway, so let's just leave it at that.

The discussion is about remuneration and whether a given scheme would work for smaller developers. The referenced scheme is based directly on user engagement. It doesn't make sense to you that discussion on whether the scheme is workable should contain any and all available data about user engagement on any of these services?
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
If the design doesn't work on dedicated GPU silicon as intended how do you think it would work in a more complex SOC design? The tape-out is the only way to to test a design as real hardware. What may have worked on simulated hardware could end up not working on the silicon for whatever reasons. If such results forces you to re-tape than there is a major issue that cannot fixed with just microcode changes or by deactivating areas.

Btw I don't disagree on the idea that the GPU and SOC have parallel tape outs, what I doubt is that an alleged console SOCs is already in production and eat up capacities while the Navi design has still issues and needs to be tested again. That makes absolutely no sense to me unless the SOC design is not based Navi. And I think we all agree on that not using Navi as the base technology would be a bad idea; right?

OK, if the idea is that having problems on one probably means there are problems with both, that makes sense.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
The discussion is about remuneration and whether a given scheme would work for smaller developers.

No it wasn't. The former predicated the latter. The dev in the tweet was discussing the future viability of streaming services for small devs on the basis of the specific remuneration scheme stated in the tweet, namely "pay by hours played". You're artificially expanding the scope of what the developer was tweeting about, just so you can include data that isn't relevant to the issue the dev was expressing concern about.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
If the design doesn't work on dedicated GPU silicon as intended how do you think it would work in a more complex SOC design? The tape-out is the only way to to test a design as real hardware. What may have worked on simulated hardware could end up not working on the silicon for whatever reasons. If such results forces you to re-tape than there is a major issue that cannot fixed with just microcode changes or by deactivating areas.

It depends on what the exact issue is. If there is a problem within the memory interface for example, it could just as well necessitate a re-tape out, but it clearly wouldn't reflect an issue with the Navi architecture.
 

BradGrenz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,507
The discussion is about remuneration and whether a given scheme would work for smaller developers. The referenced scheme is based directly on user engagement. It doesn't make sense to you that discussion on whether the scheme is workable should contain any and all available data about user engagement on any of these services?

The discussion was about a radical transformation of the industry in which current norms and data will have no bearing.
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
No it wasn't. The former predicated the latter. The dev in the tweet was discussing the future viability of streaming services for small devs on the basis of the specific remuneration scheme stated in the tweet, namely "pay by hours played". You're artificially expanding the scope of what the developer was tweeting about, just so you can include data that isn't relevant to the issue the dev was expressing concern about.

Yes, exactly.
 

Bloodcore

Member
Mar 24, 2018
137
Back on topic:

Wccftech speculates about reasons for Navi PC delay till October:

"Another reason could be that the Navi GPUs are also allegedly going to be featured in next-gen consoles and AMD would want to dedicate a good chunk of supply for those before they ship the chips out to AIBs for production of desktop-based Radeon RX graphics cards."

During AMDs earnings call, Lisa su mentioned that they saw reduced GPU channel inventory in Q4 and that they expect it to continue to reduce in Q1. Then she mentioned that they expect it to grow in Q2 and return to sequential growth from that point on the gaming side.

I'm no expert, but to me it sounds like a product launch in Q2.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
Ah yes, the luddite argument. A sure fire way to dismiss an argument when there's no reasonable counterpoint to put forward.

My position aligns with the dev in the tweet. Subscription services that don't provide lump sum payments to content producers are toxic for this industry. GamePass doesn't do this, so isn't particularly a point of concern for myself nor the tweeting dev in question. A "time played" model of remuneration for content producers limits the service to MP and GAAS type games, which in my mind aren't very well suited to a subscription service in the first place.

On the whole subscription services can never be all encompassing in the games industry, regardless of what internet pundits think. GamePass games are supported by their ability to launch first as discrete products. Without that option, the biggest games simply wouldn't exist on GamePass.
Real and legitimate concerns. I've been saying this for a while. I can't see how the business model works for gaming at all.

The biggest games cost too much to be included in a Netflix-Style service and the smallest games will get ripped off through shitty business deals that force them to accept "per hours played" royalties instead of a lump sum payment that the larger games on the service will be granted.

Fundamentally, these services screw over the content creators and places more revenue in the hands of the platform owner.
The evolution of tech and the internet has allowed a lot of content producers to come up with innovative ways of selling and distributing content at a far lower cost than had been the case earlier by simply targeting far greater numbers.

Microsoft wants said that they want to get to a position where they have one AAA game every quarter. Let us imagine that these titles cost $100M each and you have two or three smaller titles that cost in the range of $30M to make. You would be looking at something in the $500M to make games each year.

What would you be looking to make of sales (digital and physical) to break even and what would you be making off subscriptions? From this, how much are you going to make off DLC, micro-transactions and how much can you get users to double dip by giving them discounts if they are subscribers......how many will pay to play online?

Game Pass and Microsoft's problem in general this generation has been that there has been a lot of content that they have released that is targeting the multiplayer component of games more so than they have made an attempt to make single player experiences. Sony is on the other spectrum where they have very few multiplayer experiences while they have focused heavily on single player games.

There are those that will argue like you that MP and GAAS games are not well suited to subscription services, and there are many I have seen argue here that one of the biggest mistakes that Sony can make is to have single player games launch on day one on a similar service if that is something that they are thinking about.

Both stances are wrong. The only thing that makes a service compelling is the amount of quality content coming in and variety in that content to make sure that you canvas a good amount of genres. Microsoft is still going to have multiplayer titles, but to their roster of developers, they have bulked up with some who have specialized in single player experiences. Their publishing arm invested quite a bit on single player experiences that did not pan out. So, you need balance in that area.

I can also say that people that are clamoring for lump sum payments probably would run a company into the ground if they had an opportunity. What happens if you pay huge money for a game that no one is interested in? Make some bad bets (which is normal in business) that are compounded over time and you have a service that is bleeding money it would rather not be losing. Time of play is something that somewhat offers protection against that. Third party games that are launching on it day and date would also be looking at it as an opportunity to reach several million subscribers without having to put money into ads etc. Older titles have an opportunity to earn publishers money when the said games are moving minuscule amounts.

In any case, Microsoft says that subscribers are trying out more content than they did before they subscribed (again, normal.....people want to maximize their investment) and that they are seeing people buy more games. There is no reason to think that they would be lying.

EDIT: When it comes to Microsoft saying sold more copies of games like Sea of Thieves, State of Decay 2 etc. What are they comparing it to other than internal projections of what they would have liked those games to sell? EA just stated that they expected to sell more copies of Battlefield V than they did....they were short something like a million units and selling the title at a discounted rate in the holidays. Was it in comparison to Battlefield 1 No. Call of Duty Blackout made £500M in three days and under-performed because Activision Blizzard needed it to do more for them to meet their earnings reports not that it was not wildly profitable.

All these games have a break even point, and a minimum profit that publishers think is good enough to justify the investment in time and money.
 
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gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
But their is evidence that streaming services devalues products, no? Haven't physical media sales gone down since the advent and proliferation of streaming? Nintendo and Sony have a real case if they were to argue that their games are worth the full price day one. Plus it's a way to throw backhanded shade at MS
We pay $12 a month for Netflix. That is a fraction of what we would be paying for cable. Is this devaluing a product or is it a low cost high demand model that has worked wonders for movies, TV shows, podcasts and sites giving a subscription to access content?

Gaming is the last frontier when it comes to mass entertainment medium that has not widely adopted streaming or subscription services. That will change with the passage of time as tech infrastructure continues to improve.
 

VallenValiant

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,598
We pay $12 a month for Netflix. That is a fraction of what we would be paying for cable. Is this devaluing a product or is it a low cost high demand model that has worked wonders for movies, TV shows, podcasts and sites giving a subscription to access content?

Gaming is the last frontier when it comes to mass entertainment medium that has not widely adopted streaming or subscription services. That will change with the passage of time as tech infrastructure continues to improve.
Your error is assuming that subscription is superior. For that matter, subscription isn't even new. Subscription is old, what was new was the idea of owning media. For a long time, the very idea of owning a film to watch in your own house was a fantasy. Subscription was the only way to see anything.
Owning media was invented in the lifetime of my parents, and that was something corporations regretted. They much rather go back to the ancient days when they get o decide what you can consume, and when. And you have adverts you can't skip, and they can cut you off at any time.

The very conception that subscription is new or innovative is a lie. it is ancient, it is not the future but the past. A past that studios want to go back to in order to reap oldschool profits. Back to a time when you can only watch movies when the studio wants to release it in theaters.
Except now it is about deciding what you get to see on streaming.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
Your error is assuming that subscription is superior. For that matter, subscription isn't even new. Subscription is old, what was new was the idea of owning media. For a long time, the very idea of owning a film to watch in your own house was a fantasy. Subscription was the only way to see anything.
Owning media was invented in the lifetime of my parents, and that was something corporations regretted. They much rather go back to the ancient days when they get o decide what you can consume, and when. And you have adverts you can't skip, and they can cut you off at any time.

The very conception that subscription is new or innovative is a lie. it is ancient, it is not the future but the past. A past that studios want to go back to in order to reap oldschool profits. Back to a time when you can only watch movies when the studio wants to release it in theaters.
Except now it is about deciding what you get to see on streaming.
My father was an engineer, He invested in tech like nothing else. I have gone seen records, cassettes, VHS, VCD, DVD, Blu Ray and digital purchases. There was a time when it was damn expensive to essentially buy every big movie that came out on VHS or DVD and being invested in music that also applied to that medium. For this reason, companies like Blockbuster filled an area where there was a gap in envisioned consumption and what was being consumed. You could say that it was the basis around which current subscription services are all based around. It was not devaluing a product back then, and it will not be devaluing a product going forward.

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo would all love to cut the middle man and have consoles that are fully digital. Get rid of packaging, shipping and retail mark up, but also drive out of business those who run enterprises that lease out games for a period of time....get rid of used games sales. If they could have total control of the entire supply chain, that is something that they would do and most likely to the detriment of the consumer because that is where corporations tend to bend if they have enough rope.

Onto the last stanza, you only get to watch movies, TV, listen to music and read books when these companies choose. A movie will launch on cinema and when, and only when they have maximized it on that avenue will they release it for digital purchase, or physical distribution. Is it not the same when it comes to gaming?
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
6,095
Your error is assuming that subscription is superior. For that matter, subscription isn't even new. Subscription is old, what was new was the idea of owning media. For a long time, the very idea of owning a film to watch in your own house was a fantasy. Subscription was the only way to see anything.
Owning media was invented in the lifetime of my parents, and that was something corporations regretted. They much rather go back to the ancient days when they get o decide what you can consume, and when. And you have adverts you can't skip, and they can cut you off at any time.

The very conception that subscription is new or innovative is a lie. it is ancient, it is not the future but the past. A past that studios want to go back to in order to reap oldschool profits. Back to a time when you can only watch movies when the studio wants to release it in theaters.
Except now it is about deciding what you get to see on streaming.

With all due respect, the value proposition is only there if it's centralized around one or two
Subscription services. But once you need Netflix....and amazon...and Hulu....and Disney....and CBS all access and....hbo go and who knows what else the value proposition disappears. EA willl have their own service, Ubisoft ....everyone. suddenly it's costly again
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
It seems this will be for next gen :

New 'Watch Dogs 3' Trademark Hints at a PS5, Next Xbox Release
"What makes this seem like its a hint for next generation is that it's a new filing all together and not connected at all to previous Watch Dogs trademarks. As seen in the video going through Ubisoft's database, the "new application entered in TRAM" was processed on December 3rd of last year with the "supplied data" going through on December 17th."
https://comicbook.com/gaming/2019/02/09/watch-dogs-3-trademark-ps5-next-xbox/
 

VallenValiant

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,598
With all due respect, the value proposition is only there if it's centralized around one or two
Subscription services. But once you need Netflix....and amazon...and Hulu....and Disney....and CBS all access and....hbo go and who knows what else the value proposition disappears. EA willl have their own service, Ubisoft ....everyone. suddenly it's costly again
Well of course it would be costly. I am actually agreeing with you. The value proposition is from the studio's end; that they can force people to pay more for less, to make people give up money every month, and to kill off old games to make people play new ones. Your microtransactions would all be gone once the sequel comes out and the studio pulled the plug, forcing you to buy the sequel with no transactions carrying over. This would not be allowed currently as people would be pissed off and go play offline games instead. But in an all-streaming nightmare, that would no longer be possible.

The whole point is to make games more expensive, and force people to pay the price because the cheaper alternatives are killed off.
 

RevengeTaken

Banned
Aug 12, 2018
1,711
It seems this will be for next gen :

New 'Watch Dogs 3' Trademark Hints at a PS5, Next Xbox Release
"What makes this seem like its a hint for next generation is that it's a new filing all together and not connected at all to previous Watch Dogs trademarks. As seen in the video going through Ubisoft's database, the "new application entered in TRAM" was processed on December 3rd of last year with the "supplied data" going through on December 17th."
https://comicbook.com/gaming/2019/02/09/watch-dogs-3-trademark-ps5-next-xbox/
So we finally gonna see WD E3 2012 Visual in reality
 

Adookah

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,726
Sarajevo
It seems this will be for next gen :

New 'Watch Dogs 3' Trademark Hints at a PS5, Next Xbox Release
"What makes this seem like its a hint for next generation is that it's a new filing all together and not connected at all to previous Watch Dogs trademarks. As seen in the video going through Ubisoft's database, the "new application entered in TRAM" was processed on December 3rd of last year with the "supplied data" going through on December 17th."
https://comicbook.com/gaming/2019/02/09/watch-dogs-3-trademark-ps5-next-xbox/
hmm I'm thinking that they will announce WD3 this E3 for current gen consoles. Would be cool if they wait for next gen.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,830
i think its a bit of a stretch to say this game is next gen just becasue its a new trademark, it could be some kind of spin off no? because i think it would be weird if ubisoft didnt release a huge open world game this Q4. even if splinter cell release it would still be a bit weird i feel.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
My father was an engineer, He invested in tech like nothing else. I have gone seen records, cassettes, VHS, VCD, DVD, Blu Ray and digital purchases. There was a time when it was damn expensive to essentially buy every big movie that came out on VHS or DVD and being invested in music that also applied to that medium. For this reason, companies like Blockbuster filled an area where there was a gap in envisioned consumption and what was being consumed. You could say that it was the basis around which current subscription services are all based around. It was not devaluing a product back then, and it will not be devaluing a product going forward.

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo would all love to cut the middle man and have consoles that are fully digital. Get rid of packaging, shipping and retail mark up, but also drive out of business those who run enterprises that lease out games for a period of time....get rid of used games sales. If they could have total control of the entire supply chain, that is something that they would do and most likely to the detriment of the consumer because that is where corporations tend to bend if they have enough rope.

Onto the last stanza, you only get to watch movies, TV, listen to music and read books when these companies choose. A movie will launch on cinema and when, and only when they have maximized it on that avenue will they release it for digital purchase, or physical distribution. Is it not the same when it comes to gaming?

Whatever happens, it has to be good value to the customer.
If its not they will say so and it will be a PR shit storm.
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
the gamepass point is that of expanding the potential spending power by lowering the entry price. A $ 100 million blockbuster today costs around € 60 when hit the market..a price that not everyone can or are willing to pay (in fact, many will wait when the price will be half .. or even 1/3)
. If gamepass could (with its model) attract on all devices ... let's say .. (keeping us really low ) 15 million users? are 150 million a month 1.8 billions every year ...lets cut away 800 millions ..just because (to make the example even more evident)....and we will stay with 1 billion.... and I'm sure you'll agree with me that with that money I do not think the quality level of the games would fall
I expet those numbers to exceed easily 15 milions users next gen ...easily
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
Well,well...Ariel,huh?



Seems we have PS5 codename now?

EDIT: Google translate:
"Since the ID of Ariel (PS 5) is disclosed in a certain place, there are more topics that can be talked about in various ways"

cc: anexanhume
 
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M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
Alt Displayport on one of the USB Type C ports is probably for PSVR2. It'd be cool if you could use it as a standard display output as well, though.

Edit:Beaten by MrKlaw
 
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