Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019

When will the first 'next gen' console be revealed?

  • First half of 2019

    Votes: 412 14.7%
  • Second half of 2019(let's say post E3)

    Votes: 1,065 38.0%
  • First half of 2020

    Votes: 1,233 44.1%
  • 2021 :^)

    Votes: 89 3.2%

  • Total voters
    2,799
I think it's best not to expect any surprises in terms of the hardware at this point. After Navi is revealed, we'll essentially know what kind of performance we're going to get by looking at the mid-range option (which might still be the fastest Navi GPU they reveal, mind you).

I think what people are going to be impressed by, and this has been the case for every console generation for a while, is the innovation on the software side. Sure, you can't get any more realistic than PBR in terms of authoring content, but all those little things devs wish they could put into their games today will become commonplace and more brutally optimized than we've ever seen them before. Just think of all the beautiful techniques for indirect lighting, shadows, and complex materials you've already seen (sans raytracing) being used together and at higher settings.

And let's not even get started on how insane the artwork is going to look, given the right talent is involved. Actually nevermind, let's. We can already use far more polygons than devs are typically using on current hardware, and a lot of the reason artists aren't going higher is because of the futility of making an overly smooth model without a detailed enough normal map to complement it. Also, many are afraid of vertex skinning costs, but this limit is going to be lifted in a tremendous way with these new CPUs. So from day one, we'll see many of these rendering techniques used together with less pressure for artists to optimize, and without a fundamental shift in authoring tools, leading to an impressive leap in visuals without any new innovations. After all, there are many realtime techniques that have been available for years that devs have been eager to use which the PS4 just couldn't support without aggressive optimization and absurd man hours. Many of these things were only just barely out of reach on contemporary console hardware.

Now, on top of all of that, consider the additional techniques and research that will be born out of an 8-12 TF GPU being the lowest common denominator (excepting the Switch since it requires so much extra work and many games already skip it). While we could certainly use the crazy performance some are daydreaming about, I think a lot of developers aren't even going to know what to do with 10 TF especially when it comes to their artwork. 'Easy mode' would be making the games of today with PC-like settings and more density, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but if a developer really wants to make use of the hardware, they'll be able to blow our socks off.

The primary limitations on artists from this generation will be gone. There is so much short of raytracing that we're going to be happy to have.
Superb post and very illuminating. Thanks for the insight and I definitely agree.
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,228
Feels weird with next gen roughly a year away. Games like RE2, RDR2, and devil May cry 5 are making this gen feel brand new to me, these games look that good.
Remember 2 things:

- Those are 3 of the absolute best-looking games of the generation, whereas next-gen, games will probably look like that at the absolute bare minimum, but with better resolutions and framerates.

- The biggest jump next-gen will be in the CPU and how the games actually play. Those titles do have some impressive gameplay tech, but next-gen will go far, far beyond them.

Those are the main reasons why I'd be happy to see next-gen this holiday.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,172
Remember 2 things:

- Those are 3 of the absolute best-looking games of the generation, whereas next-gen, games will probably look like that at the absolute bare minimum, but with better resolutions and framerates.

- The biggest jump next-gen will be in the CPU and how the games actually play. Those titles do have some impressive gameplay tech, but next-gen will go far, far beyond them.

Those are the main reasons why I'd be happy to see next-gen this holiday.
doubt it, go look at how a lot of companies are missing revanue targets, I cant see every game being as detailed as RDR2, maybe in model and texures, though I have my doubts, but certainly not in scope.
 
Oct 30, 2017
383
Yeah, there's a big difference between having the technical ability to add scope and detail and having the financial resources to spend on adding that. A lot of new animated films look like decade-old Pixar films, even though other studios have the ability to produce more detailed visuals — they just don't have the budget.

I think a next-gen version of, say, Tales of isn't going to look hugely different from the Switch/PS4 version.

Is it safe to say that next gen controllers are gonna have USB-C?
I hope so. On both ends of the cable. I don't want any gross 1998 full-size USB ports on my fancy new next-decade console. Yeeuuchh.
 
doubt it, go look at how a lot of companies are missing revanue targets, I cant see every game being as detailed as RDR2, maybe in model and texures, though I have my doubts, but certainly not in scope.
Graphical fidelity =/= scope. I think you’re conflating to two.

Look at Naughty Dog, they’re nowhere near the size of Rockstar and they can produce games as incredible looking as they do without $200m dev budgets.

RDR achieves what it achieves mostly through tech and good art. Reduce the scope of the game and you can produce similar result with a much more reasonably sized dev team.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,610
Graphical fidelity =/= scope. I think you’re conflating to two.

Look at Naughty Dog, they’re nowhere near the size of Rockstar and they can produce games as incredible looking as they do without $200m dev budgets.

RDR achieves what it achieves mostly through tech and good art. Reduce the scope of the game and you can produce similar result with a much more reasonably sized dev team.
Yep i expected TLOU 2 to look just as good as RDR2 maybe better in certain aspects .
But it going to be no where in size and scope so it won't be as expensive ( even if it going cost a fair amount)
Still over time it will be cheaper to make games that bigger in scope thanks to tech .
 
Feb 10, 2018
7,678
doubt it, go look at how a lot of companies are missing revanue targets, I cant see every game being as detailed as RDR2, maybe in model and texures, though I have my doubts, but certainly not in scope.
Yes, the reason why R*'s games look so good is because a lot of assets are hand placed and hand crafted.

Take watch dogs 2 for example, while it may have a better lighting model, better textures and a higher polycount, GTA5 still looks better 80% of the time because more time is spent crafting it, roads will have cracks in it and patchwork where the roads have been repaired where as in WD2 the world is more prestine and less realistic.

So nextgen while lighting, polycount and textures will be better no amount of tech will substitute the effect of manually creating environments with the finer details.

It's like a great artist can make a better picture in 1 month then the same artist drawing the same thing in 1 hour.
 
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Nov 12, 2017
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doubt it, go look at how a lot of companies are missing revanue targets, I cant see every game being as detailed as RDR2, maybe in model and texures, though I have my doubts, but certainly not in scope.
The post I was replying to was talking about "how good" those games look, and yes, I do think next-gen games will all look as good or better graphically (aside from the REALLY low-budget stuff that will probably be cross-gen anyway) with some variation due to taste and graphical styles. Agreed that not every game will match RDR2 in scope though, partly because of budget/time and partly because many games just aren't aiming for massive scope. I can see how my second point may have looked like I was saying that, though.

Graphical fidelity =/= scope. I think you’re conflating to two.
This.
 
Remember 2 things:

- Those are 3 of the absolute best-looking games of the generation, whereas next-gen, games will probably look like that at the absolute bare minimum, but with better resolutions and framerates.

- The biggest jump next-gen will be in the CPU and how the games actually play. Those titles do have some impressive gameplay tech, but next-gen will go far, far beyond them.

Those are the main reasons why I'd be happy to see next-gen this holiday.
CPU is the most exciting upgrade for me... All I want is the possibility to play open world SP games at 60fps, this opens the door to it..
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,228
CPU is the most exciting upgrade for me... All I want is the possibility to play open world SP games at 60fps, this opens the door to it..
Agreed. I very much hope more devs at least offer 60fps modes. This is why I disagree with the idea that a weak GPU is fine because devs can just use reconstruction techniques - I want those used for optional performance modes.

May happen with cross gen.
But next gen open world will use the resources for NPC's, cars, creatures etc
They will, but the impression I've gotten is that the CPU jump will be so big that they could apply a noticeable increase in all those things and also have 60fps as well, if they wanted.
 
I honestly couldn't care less for graphics and performance options in console games.

Outside of remasters and games launching on mid-gen refresh consoles, I think it would disincentivise devs to properly optimise their games for the hardware available.

I play consoles for a consistent and polished gaming experience. I don't wanna have to futz around with settings just to get it to run properly.

Options like that make sense for remasters and games played on mid-gen upgrade consoles. Not for base consoles.
 
Feb 10, 2018
7,678
Agreed. I very much hope more devs at least offer 60fps modes. This is why I disagree with the idea that a weak GPU is fine because devs can just use reconstruction techniques - I want those used for optional performance modes.



They will, but the impression I've gotten is that the CPU jump will be so big that they could apply a noticeable increase in all those things and also have 60fps as well, if they wanted.
That would be cool, but I bet devs will utilise the whole CPU fairly quickly.
60fps + double the npc/vehicle/creature complexity would be very cool though.

We need a dev to tell us the score on what is possible with a 8 core Zen2 @ 2.5 - 3ghz.

One thing I want next gen is realistic facial expressions and mannerisms from NPC's.
The amount of progression that can be made in this space is super vast.
 
They will, but the impression I've gotten is that the CPU jump will be so big that they could apply a noticeable increase in all those things and also have 60fps as well, if they wanted.
Sure, but only if they limit the scope of their games to same genres, styles and gameplay mechanics we've seen this gen.

If devs wanna go all out and create gameplay around innovative new simulation systems that require far more CPU performance than was available in previous gens, they will focus their computational budget on that, 60fps be damned.

It's not really realistic to expect every or even most games to be available at 60fps next-gen, even with Ryzen CPUs. At the end of the day, not every game benefits all that much from 60fps and so devs will prioritise their performance budget based on the vision for the game they wanna make.
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,228
I honestly couldn't care less for graphics and performance options in console games.

Outside of remasters and games launching on mid-gen refresh consoles, I think it would disincentivise devs to properly optimise their games for the hardware available.

I play consoles for a consistent and polished gaming experience. I don't wanna have to futz around with settings just to get it to run properly.

Options like that make sense for remasters and games played on mid-gen upgrade consoles. Not for base consoles.
Sorry, but I disagree. People's personal tastes with this stuff vary, and it's nice to have options. Plus, I'm only really talking about switching between two modes, not a full suite of PC-style settings you have to navigate. I feel that next gen is the best time to do it, what with the huge CPU jump and the fact that resolutions have become so tremendous now.

That would be cool, but I bet devs will utilise the whole CPU fairly quickly.
60fps + double the npc/vehicle/creature complexity would be very cool though.

We need a dev to tell us the score on what is possible with a 8 core Zen2 @ 2.5 - 3ghz.

One thing I want next gen is realistic facial expressions and mannerisms from NPC's.
The amount of progression that can be made in this space is super vast.
Agreed, this discussion is tough without more hard data on just how much of a boost the new CPUs will add.

Sure, but only if they limit the scope of their games to same genres, styles and gameplay mechanics we've seen this gen.

If devs wanna go all out and create gameplay around innovative new simulation systems that require far more CPU performance than was available in previous gens, they will focus their computational budget on that, 60fps be damned.

It's not really realistic to expect every or even most games to be available at 60fps next-gen, even with Ryzen CPUs. At the end of the day, not every game benefits all that much from 60fps and so devs will prioritise their performance budget based on the vision for the game they wanna make.
Oh certainly, but then we get the question of what's more important - going all-out with those systems to the point that 60fps is impossible, or just doing better than this gen. I feel like, if all developers actually did commit to 60fps being an option in all their games, the leftover CPU power would still be enough to create incredibly complex and stunning games far beyond what we're playing now.

We'll have to see what happens - it's been pointed out that, actually, a LOT of games are being made at 60fps these days. Lately almost all big FPS games, multiplayer titles, character action games, sports games, remasters, etc are 60fps. It frequently feels like practically all genres are transitioning to at least having performance modes, except for Sony's big titles (and some of those have performance modes on Pro), and, of course, open-world games. That's the situation with shitty CPUs, so I'll be interested to see what happens with much better CPUs. There's also the matter of 60fps being the bare minimum needed for VR, which may well have knock-on effects.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,098
Yeah if devs target 30fps 4K (or checkerboard) and provide an unlocked performance option with lower res and a few lower settings that would be good for most bases I think. Locked 30, and then unlocked you can hopefully leverage VRR to help smooth things out if you’re hitting 45fps
 
Oct 8, 2018
1,542
All I want from next gen is psvr 2 and Bloodborne 2. Preferably at launch.
considering yesterday's findings then i think PSVR2's likelyhood of releasing on launch increased, now that supposedly the PS5 has a port specifically for PSVR2.
i dont expect any from soft game at launch but if i were to guess, i think from are making with SIEJ a spiritual successor to bloodborne rather than a direct sequel.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,272
Yeah if devs target 30fps 4K (or checkerboard) and provide an unlocked performance option with lower res and a few lower settings that would be good for most bases I think. Locked 30, and then unlocked you can hopefully leverage VRR to help smooth things out if you’re hitting 45fps
I devs target 30fps that will be the beginning of the end of consoles.

Many devs are starting to target 60fps on mid-gen consoles now using laptop CPUs. With Zen 2 and VRR, next gen we'll all talk about 60-120fps console gaming.
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,228
considering yesterday's findings then i think PSVR2's likelyhood of releasing on launch increased, now that supposedly the PS5 has a port specifically for PSVR2.
i dont expect any from soft game at launch but if i were to guess, i think from are making with SIEJ a spiritual successor to bloodborne rather than a direct sequel.
Yeah. My bet is that we're not getting Bloodborne 2, in the same way that we didn't get Demons' Souls 2 - instead we'll get something new that's hopefully even better.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,102
I honestly couldn't care less for graphics and performance options in console games.

Outside of remasters and games launching on mid-gen refresh consoles, I think it would disincentivise devs to properly optimise their games for the hardware available.

I play consoles for a consistent and polished gaming experience. I don't wanna have to futz around with settings just to get it to run properly.

Options like that make sense for remasters and games played on mid-gen upgrade consoles. Not for base consoles.
100% agree with this, though i understand why others prefer options.
 
Jan 21, 2019
58
I devs target 30fps that will be the beginning of the end of consoles.

Many devs are starting to target 60fps on mid-gen consoles now using laptop CPUs. With Zen 2 and VRR, next gen we'll all talk about 60-120fps console gaming.
30FPS didn't end console in the PS3 era, it didn't end consoles in the PS4 era and it won't end them in the PS5 era. Only enthusiasts care about that number. Casual gamers barely know that this difference exists or they just don't care.

I prefer 60 but I leave it to the devs. But I agree, more and more devs are shooting for 60 even on our current toaster CPUs, so next gen should have many more 60 FPS games (at least from Japanese devs).
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,610
I devs target 30fps that will be the beginning of the end of consoles.

Many devs are starting to target 60fps on mid-gen consoles now using laptop CPUs. With Zen 2 and VRR, next gen we'll all talk about 60-120fps console gaming.
That is a dream .
Open world games going to need all the power they can get .
Something like HZD 2 or Spidey 2 i much rather have better AI , more NPCs , physics than 60 fps .
You are not getting 120fps on consoles unless you talking VR .
I can see other games going for 60fps so it will improve but we still have awhile to go for full 60fps gaming on consoles .
 
Feb 10, 2018
7,678
I devs target 30fps that will be the beginning of the end of consoles.

Many devs are starting to target 60fps on mid-gen consoles now using laptop CPUs. With Zen 2 and VRR, next gen we'll all talk about 60-120fps console gaming.
Lol 30fps won't be the end of consoles.
30fps has been a thing on consoles for the last 25yrs.
 
Oct 8, 2018
1,542
I devs target 30fps that will be the beginning of the end of consoles.

Many devs are starting to target 60fps on mid-gen consoles now using laptop CPUs. With Zen 2 and VRR, next gen we'll all talk about 60-120fps console gaming.
not really.
most TV's dont even support over 60.
and even then 30FPS is still good for most people. 30FPS didnt kill consoles in any generation so it wont kill them now. we may have more 60FPS games next gen, but there will always be 30FPS games and likely they will still be more common than 60FPS games.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,272
30FPS didn't end console in the PS3 era, it didn't end consoles in the PS4 era and it won't end them in the PS5 era. Only enthusiasts care about that number. Casual gamers barely know that this difference exists or they just don't care.

I prefer 60 but I leave it to the devs. But I agree, more and more devs are shooting for 60 even on our current toaster CPUs, so next gen should have many more 60 FPS games (at least from Japanese devs).
Do they really ? Have you looked at the list of the most played games on consoles currently ? For instance on XB (more shooters on XB, but still), those are the 5 most played games currently on XB:

Fortnite, COD, NBA, APEX, Siege.

Casual gamers may not know the difference between 30fps or 60fps, but in the end, they certainly prefer playing 60fps games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,610
not really.
most TV's dont even support over 60.
and even then 30FPS is still good for most people. 30FPS didnt kill consoles in any generation so it wont kill them now. we may have more 60FPS games next gen, but there will always be 30FPS games and likely they will still be more common than 60FPS games.
We have fighting , sports , fps and some more going for 60fps .
Still open world \ huge area games will always keep the average down and i don't see that changing any time soon .

Do they really ? Have you looked at the list of the most played games on consoles currently ? For instance on XB (more shooters on XB, but still), those are the 5 most played games currently on XB:

Fortnite, COD, NBA, APEX, Siege.

Casual gamers may not know the difference between 30fps or 60fps, but in the end, they certainly prefer playing 60fps games.

When fornite was getting huge it was not even 60 fps on consoles .
Also some of the best selling games this gen are 30fps which show casual gamers not to bother either way .
 
Oct 8, 2018
1,542
Do they really ? Have you looked at the list of the most played games on consoles currently ? For instance on XB (more shooters on XB, but still), those are the 5 most played games currently on XB:

Fortnite, COD, NBA, APEX, Siege.

Casual gamers may not know the difference between 30fps or 60fps, but in the end, they certainly prefer playing 60fps games.
they are not that big because they are 60fps.
they are that big because they are fun multiplayer/sport games. they would have been huge at 30fps anyways (in fact fortnite was not originally running at 60fps on consoles and was still a huge game.)


speaking of 60fps next gen, apparently after people on era found out that the new days gone trailer was running at 4k 60fps they reuploaded at a 4k30 version, could it be they legit uploaded footage from the dev kit? because that would be one huge mistake lol.
here is the proof, IGN still has the 60fps version and it feels much much better while graphically looking the same:
 
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Nov 12, 2017
2,228
We have fighting , sports , fps and some more going for 60fps .
Still open world \ huge area games will always keep the average down and i don't see that changing any time soon .
You could be right, but a massive jump in CPU power and increases in resolution being less important than they used to be is exactly what could lead to real change.

When fornite was getting huge it was not even 60 fps on consoles .
Also some of the best selling games this gen are 30fps which show casual gamers not to bother either way .
If casual gamers don't care either way, I'd say that's a good argument for a 60fps standard. I don't see anybody quitting console gaming because of it, but there probably would be at least some PC gamers who would get back in (I know that when I get or got a game on PC, the number one reason why was because it was the only way to play it at 60fps).
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,610
If casual gamers don't care either way, I'd say that's a good argument for a 60fps standard. I don't see anybody quitting console gaming because of it, but there probably would be at least some PC gamers who would get back in (I know that when I get or got a game on PC, the number one reason why was because it was the only way to play it at 60fps).
Thing is GFX still sell games .
Look at how amazing RDR2 look and think about what they would have to give up for 60fps .
For open world games i think 60fps not worth it for some devs .
Would i love to play spidey 2 at 60fps yes but question is what would they have to give up even with better specs we getting.
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,228
Thing is GFX still sell games .
Look at how amazing RDR2 look and think about what they would have to give up for 60fps .
For open world games i think 60fps not worth it for some devs .
Would i love to play spidey 2 at 60fps yes but question is what would they have to give up even with better specs we getting.
Next-gen will have spectacular graphics regardless of the framerate chosen, though - we'll be able to have open-world games that look as good or better than RDR2 at 2160p60 (the assets, admittedly, may not be quite so handcrafted but that's not really relevant to framerate). Not to mention that 60fps is much easier to market nowadays.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,532
Do we finally have a code name ? March2020 isn't happening at this rate . November 2020 is more likely.

Ps5 will be silent like Ariel was . Liquid cooling chamber system confirmed ;)
 
Feb 10, 2018
7,678
they are not that big because they are 60fps.
they are that big because they are fun multiplayer/sport games. they would have been huge at 30fps anyways (in fact fortnite was not originally running at 60fps on consoles and was still a huge game.)


speaking of 60fps next gen, apparently after people on era found out that the new days gone trailer was running at 4k 60fps they reuploaded at a 4k30 version, could it be they legit uploaded footage from the dev kit? because that would be one huge mistake lol.
here is the proof, IGN still has the 60fps version and it feels much much better while graphically looking the same:
Could well be.
It looks like genuine 60fps not some sped up 30fps footage.
So it could be PS5 dev kit footage.
 
Oct 8, 2018
1,542
Do we finally have a code name ? March2020 isn't happening at this rate . November 2020 is more likely.

Ps5 will be silent like Ariel was . Liquid cooling chamber system confirmed ;)
just to clarify, the code name is very likely the AMD side code name for the APU, not the one that developers use.

Could well be.
It looks like genuine 60fps not some sped up 30fps footage.
So it could be PS5 dev kit footage.
if this video really is running on a PS5 version dev kit then this is one hilarious situation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,098
if there isn't enough ram, or fast enough HDD/SSD to stream open world assets fast enough, you might get 60fps versions because devs can't spent the GPU budget on unique elements.
 
Oct 28, 2017
699
Making 4K 60fps promo videos of Days Gone with no known way to play in that quality would be a really shitty move. It must either be a mistake or maybe, just maybe, they intend to announce the PS5 with BC before the games release in April, making it "ok" to show PS5 footage as a sign of things to come?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,116
4k 30fps subpar? You understand that the guys of the emu are working game by game without knowing what and how the game behaviour is and how it is utilizing the hardware is like if they are driving with a patch over their eyes. That % could easily go up with some of the direct Sony knowledge. Honestly rolling out with ..lets say 50% of PS3 games would make happy the most of who asking PS3 bc from years . BTW I close it here.
This. 800 mhz for PS4. 911 Mhz for Pro. Not sure why people think Sony would go with a 1.4Ghz clockspeed.

It will be an 8 TF GPU.
Nope. Cerny said that 8TF was the mininum for 4K years ago. Doubt they target something that low 4 years later.
 
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Nov 12, 2017
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Nope. Cerny said that was are mininum for 4K years ago. Doubt they target something that low.
And before people say that the X does native 4K with 6TF - the X does native 4K on SOME games with 6TF AND a huge RAM improvement. And while the PS5 would also get a massive RAM and CPU boost, Cerny openly stating 8TF as what he thought they needed just for native 4K PS4 games tells me that he would've demanded a higher number for PS5 (unless Navi has some huge architectural improvements that make 8 Navi TF much better than 8 Polaris TF.
 
Dec 5, 2017
1,993
Agreed. I very much hope more devs at least offer 60fps modes. This is why I disagree with the idea that a weak GPU is fine because devs can just use reconstruction techniques - I want those used for optional performance modes.



They will, but the impression I've gotten is that the CPU jump will be so big that they could apply a noticeable increase in all those things and also have 60fps as well, if they wanted.
How big will the CPU jump be in DBZ power levels?
 
Oct 26, 2017
200
All I want is backward compatibility for VR and PS3/PS4.

I need
- skate 3 (or a remaster)
- subnautica in 60fps
- my MP VR games compatible (because my buddy will finally drop into VR next Gen)
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,032
Nope. Cerny said that 8TF was the mininum for 4K years ago. Doubt they target something that low 4 years later.
Wut? My post was about bc.
Btw on your topic people continue to take that Cerny words as universal law ..Im not drinking it....i suspect it was just an esagerare way to downplay xbx specs..because there are been multiple proof that he was wrong ,... But that's my take on it
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,228
Interesting.

How big will the jump be if we go to 8-12 tf in DBZ power levels?
PS4 is Imperfect Cell.
PS4 Pro is Semi-Perfect Cell.
8TF PS5 is (Mr) Perfect Cell.
12TF PS5 is Super Perfect Cell.

You want to be Super Perfect, don't you?

Wut? My post was about bc.
Btw on your topic people continue to take that Cerny words as universal law ..Im not drinking it....i suspect it was just an esagerare way to downplay xbx specs..because there are been multiple proof that he was wrong ,... But that's my take on it
There have not, actually, and the idea that Cerny would care about downplaying the X a year before it's release is laughable, but it doesn't matter if he was right or wrong. The point is that it shows the opinion of the PS5's designer regarding how many teraflops you need for a certain goal. Even if he did overshoot the amount needed for native 4K PS4 games, that indicates he would also overshoot the amount needed for the PS5 (to our benefit).