Thats great for PC users, but you are not going to see a 1.5 Ghz or 2.0 Ghz GPU in a console with 60 Compute Units. You might see 1.5Ghz if those 40 CU Navi Lite rumors are true but that gets you 8 tflops IIRC.
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Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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Thats great for PC users, but you are not going to see a 1.5 Ghz or 2.0 Ghz GPU in a console with 60 Compute Units. You might see 1.5Ghz if those 40 CU Navi Lite rumors are true but that gets you 8 tflops IIRC.
if komachi is right about the 2.0GHZ clock speed, then maybe we should shift the focus to the latter half of the chart from 1.3GHZ and above.
I can't see how... with vega vii being 13 tflops costing $699 and consumes 300w
Everyday 8-9 tflops seems the best we can get.
10-12 it is only possible on Anaconda with a better cooler solution and $500 price tag.
This is extremely premature. Supposedly Zen 2 is seeing a 500 MHz base clock while maintaining TDP and being a bigger core than Zen+. Let's just wait and see where the clocks fall.
Isn't 2ghz for the Navi 10 PC part?
I would not expect the same clocks.
But it does depend on Navis power saving gains.
2ghz? ...uhm ...the most close desktop ps4 gpu should be the hd 7850 right? its clocked 860MHz while the ps4 gpu clock is at 800MHz ...so let say 7% less?......7% of 2000MHz ...give us 1860 MHz.......it would give us a crazy tdp right?
thats why i said 1.3GHZ and above.
PS5 is supposedly running with a Navi 10 Lite GPU. could mean that it is just running on a lower clock level but it still make a higher clock than what was previously expected much more likely than before.
i wouldnt expect it to be that close to 2GHZ but i can see around the 1.3~1.5 GHZ range more likely now.
There was no other CPU option for either the Pro or the X, so I'm not sure what's the point you're making here or how you're estimating that range.
And since all we've been talking about in this thread are GPU FLOPS, the Pro is absolutely more than twice as powerful as the base.
Yup. We'll have to see how the TDP scales on Navi. 2Ghz, if true, is of course for the PC part, but if it can hit as high, then it is possible the clocks in consoles end up being higher than we're used to.
He said 8tf is needed for this gen games to run properly on 4k(Although 6TF xbox1x is doing just fine on 4k).For next gen we need true next gen graphical fidelity,not just current game running at 4k with almost same graphics.
I just don't see 8TF in PS5. Xbox1x has 6 tf with old 16nm Polaris.Navi is probably next big thing for AMD after Ryzen,its also 7nm,honestly everything below 8TF would be disapppointing.
I expect 72CU running at 1300mhz which is 12TF as double the power of Xbox1X
Not necessarily. Look at the gtx 1080 TDP is around depending on load 180watt TDP.
That's really good. NAVI is a better node than Polaris specifically RX 580 is around 200+ tdp depending on board partner.
So if you have something on a 7nm process, that is a retooled node I would have assume we are looking at 200 TDP or less for gtx 1080/2070 performance.
And honestly it being console probably going to not be clocked as high, unless they have some insane cooling and the box is like the size of OG XBOX ONE.
Might see 1500 mhz, but I don't think you will see anything close to 2.0ghz unless it's a boost type of thing for really intensive scenario's in games to get some extra performance to hold stable frames.
Diminishing returns is a real concept, as are the laws of physics.
Yes I expect PS5 to be 11tflops but it will be $499 and have 24gb ram.
Is there any reason to expect we might see more than 64 CUs with Navi, other than hopes and dreams? Honest question, as I haven't been following along save for a few trips to this thread at irregular intervals.
I just don't get why a lot of people are being selectively objective.
Next gen consoles will NOT have $350 of HBM2 RAM, they won't need 3 fans, they won't be clocked at the upper limit of the chips TDP, they don't conform to typical retail pricing....etc.
I mean just subtract the RAM from that and what you have is a $350 card at retail prices. And Navi is NOT Vega.
Well having more then 64cus would make a lot of sense, but I have no idea if it's possible and why there is a 64 limit in the first place
All we have is that slide from AMD about it being "scalable." Now since that's presumably was their goal from the start with Navi, the only way to do that is either to solve the 64CU diminishing returns in Vega, or huge architectural improvements.
Pretty much just market necessity. AMD can't deliver competitive price/performance when their only available performance lever is clockspeed. They are going to have to address this soon, so why not now when the new process can easily enable more processing units on a reasonably-sized die?
Wait, your telling me I can't speculate in the speculation thread?
Are you being serious?
At that frequency we would get something at 11 tf ....not bad
This long wait for Navi specs is giving me a facial tic. We keep going around and around in circles, we need those hard specs to really have a proper idea of what's possible.
For sure - XBOX One X ran at 1172 st 16nm. It wouldn't be a big deal for it to run at 1500 at 7nm.
Hang in there!
PS3 and PS4 speculation threads were the bomb back in the day and the PS3 thread originally attracted me to the old place.
PS5 in comparison is like pulling teeth. No crazy CPUs that will take over your fridge one day. No (failed) hope about a CPU better than Jaguar ready in time. No GPU market that was at least somewhat competitive and had one killer card with crazy gains after the other. Just "ok, CPU is basically certain and lets hope that AMD doesn't fuck up their next GPU architecture". Mid-gen refreshs and Titans still holding strong, even likely outclassing the possibly included GPUs quite a bit and Sony being tight lipped to keep PS4 selling makes it...boring.
I want an answer to tressfx/luxurious shampoo commercial fur, physix, I want hype, I want wild speculation, tears, leaks, everything.
I agree it's a completely plausible uplift, so I'm reserving judgement.
He was right,it seems AMD 7310 (he mentioned that in previous tweet i quoted) is indeed Navi 10...now we just have to wait for some more reliable clocks and benchmarks.
AMD Gonzalo ( allegedly PS5) has Navi 10 lite. What would "lite" mean in this case,i guess some stuff will be cut off from full Navi 10 anexanhume ?
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Here we go again. That 2ghz clock thing has me worried because they've lately been upclocking gpus to cover up their shortfalls. I really hope they puttin in work this time around but I don't know too much. Just that they need a replacement for gcn.
Navi 10 Lite is
the alcohol free version of Navi ... Dilly Dilly
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I'm just waiting for some cool/inspiring tech demos that get your imagination going for what your favorite games could look like on next-gen. Samaritan got me hyped about what next-gen games could look like. Nothing on that front yet, and no idea what to expect.
Hang in there!
PS3 and PS4 speculation threads were the bomb back in the day and the PS3 thread originally attracted me to the old place.
PS5 in comparison is like pulling teeth. No crazy CPUs that will take over your fridge one day. No (failed) hope about a CPU better than Jaguar ready in time. No GPU market that was at least somewhat competitive and had one killer card with crazy gains after the other. Just "ok, CPU is basically certain and lets hope that AMD doesn't fuck up their next GPU architecture". Mid-gen refreshs and Titans still holding strong, even likely outclassing the possibly included GPUs quite a bit and Sony being tight lipped to keep PS4 selling makes it...boring.
I want an answer to tressfx/luxurious shampoo commercial fur, physix, I want hype, I want wild speculation, tears, leaks, everything.
They could be cutting FP64 and turning off some CUs to improve silicon production without many defective units which would make sense since it's an APU for consoles and not all CUs will be turned on to increase silicon loterry
We need to update the poll to ask for potential Tflops counts instead of release dates. Thats all we seem to care about here lol.
I am Team 8 Tflops. Or Team $399. Who is with me?
Team 12 Tflops should clarify if they think the PS5 will be $399 and 12 Tflops or $499 to hit 12 Tflops.
I am Team 8 Tflops. Or Team $399. Who is with me?
Team 12 Tflops should clarify if they think the PS5 will be $399 and 12 Tflops or $499 to hit 12 Tflops.
Maybe I'm too much optimistic but I'm more inclined to think hardly ps5 will be so underpowered. I understand we need to be realistic but jeesh the 8TF+12 GB RAM thing seems too much. Or maybe there are sort of customisation which change completely the whole picture. Said that I remember at the ps4 time, pre release leaks too were underwhelming compared the reality.
Hang in there!
PS3 and PS4 speculation threads were the bomb back in the day and the PS3 thread originally attracted me to the old place.
PS5 in comparison is like pulling teeth. No crazy CPUs that will take over your fridge one day. No (failed) hope about a CPU better than Jaguar ready in time. No GPU market that was at least somewhat competitive and had one killer card with crazy gains after the other. Just "ok, CPU is basically certain and lets hope that AMD doesn't fuck up their next GPU architecture". Mid-gen refreshs and Titans still holding strong, even likely outclassing the possibly included GPUs quite a bit and Sony being tight lipped to keep PS4 selling makes it...boring.
I want an answer to tressfx/luxurious shampoo commercial fur, physix, I want hype, I want wild speculation, tears, leaks, everything.
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Welcome to the team ... ahem ... dark side. We have the cookies!
It was different back then.. Economical crisis back then lead consoles to be 399€ for Sony alongside a waker CPU due to lack of better AMD offer.
AMD was also just starting Vega & Polaris at the time so they had to base themselves of from R7970 to make it cheaper
Ok let's go crazy
PS5 - 399 @ 11.1tf (60cu's 1450mhz)
Xb2 Pro - 499 @ 14.2 (72cu's 1550mhz)
Xb2 arcade 349 @ 9.6 tf (56cu's 1350mhz)
Love the numbers, at only a $50 difference between arcade and PS5, arcade would be DOA in a brutal fashion
People were initially disappointed because we expected them to go with the 2.5 Tflops GPU, but when news of Xbox One's 1.2 tflops came out, Sony fans were like ok things could be a whole lot worse. It was an 8x increase over the PS3 GPU which some estimated at 176 Gflops.
MS eventually increased the clocks and got to 1.3 tflops but the PS4 had a massive 50% advantage over the Xbox One all through the reveals and E3, and that calmed some nerves. It also had 4GB of GDDR5 which was also an 8x increase with a massive bandwidth increase too. PS3 had split ram so most people were just happy Sony had taken care of all the bottlenecks from the PS3. Even the CPU was much easier to program for than the Cell.
So overall, most people were happy with an 8x boost. and completely blown away by the 8GB GDDR5 announcement. god that was the best megaton ever.
The problem now is that 8 Tflops is just a 4.2x increase. Even if we get 10 tflops equivalent power, we will be seeing an xbox one like 5x boost in GPU power. Best case scenario,we get 12 tflops, which is still only 6x. No one knows what the 3-4x performance increase in CPUs will do. We might see every game be 60 fps by default, we might see some fancy simulations, realistic NPC and enemy behavior, more physics and enemies/npcs on screen at once. But again, no one really knows if devs will put all that to use. It was easy to create lush open worlds this gen because all you need to is ask artists to add more foliage and draw prettier trees. With the CPU increase, you need programmers to completely redesign their A.I routines, help create simulations for level designers to use, help combat designers use that extra CPU power to juggle more enemies, add fancy powers that use physics in ways they havent used before and god knows what else.
I wrote too much but the CPU is where we are going to be seeing the most enhancements and i feel like people are going to have their minds blown simply because we have no idea what to expect from this 4x CPU increase. Horizon concept art had Aloy working with 4 people to take down a dinobot. its possible that we ride around with our own gang of hunters with complex A.I subroutines taking down massive herds of equally clever dinobots. But of course, thats easier said than done. You can have the most power CPU in the world, but programmers still need to program the A.I.
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