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Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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I have a Ryzen 2700X and RX 580 based system and it matches the Xbox One X guide good from a GPU perspective. Though the CPU is something special here. (But today I will switch to a Vega 56 that I just bought for 269 Euros!!)
Yeah it still takes some headwrapping to figure out how they do it :)
I've only been playing consoles again since 2016 when I got a PS4 and I've never been in a console launch before (my last one was the SNES) so not sure what to expect. It seems almost like magic what they are able to do.
No. The RX580 has more in common with a PS4pro than an XB1X.
RX580 is a 36CU, 256bit, 8GB GDDR5 GPU that at its 1257Mhz clock gives 5.7TF.
PS4pro has 36CU, 256bit, 8GB GDDR5 that at its ~900Mhz clock gives 4.2TF.
XB1X has 40CU, 384bit, 12GB GDDR5.
XB1X is more of a custom RX580 adding more CUs and PS4pro is a actual RX580 that has just been downclocked.
The PS4 Pro iGPU has 40 CUs (4 deactivated), 64 ROPs (vs. 32 on PS4/580) and does support some custom things like the Intelligent Work Distributor from Vega, FP16 and some ROPs customization for Checkerboard-Rendering.
The Xbox One X GPU has actually 44 CUs, also 4 are deactivated for better yield.
None of them is a straight up Polaris10/20 design.
The Xbox One X GPU has actually 44 CUs, also 4 are deactivated for better yield.
None of them is a straight up Polaris10/20 design.
Any expectations,besides downclocking, of Navi 10 "lite" allegedly in PS5?
This. Also comparing discrete video card pricing to console pricing is not reasonable. The path from suppliers to manufacturing to packaging to retail are completely different and the various costs incurred along the way are not comparable. Specifically, the discrete video card has more parties involved that need to make money and the volume of any specific SKU (which will be specific to one vendor selling one card based on that GPU) is much smaller, so you lose out on the per-unit cost benefits of manufacturing a product at scale.
I meant for cec to be able to fully power off. You would need a hacked ps4 to change the default power option to be off rather than rest
Yeah,of course.I wonder what else will be cut and what custom stuff Sony might add,like they did with ID buffer in Pro.
I think the tweaks will be to make certain things easier and increases to real world performance over there PC counterparts will be minimal or abscent.
Some hair cuts are certainly involved over a such long design time ... ;)
Uh huh...anyway,i wonder what realistically can Sony do about ray tracing without breaking a bank?
Is some custom "sauce" a la that ID buffer/fake 4K in Pro possible for ray tracing in PS5?
The "Lite" moniker is a very interesting one.
Till now there was never a "lite" label for an ASIC and there is probably a major differentiator otherwise it would be wasteful to develop two very similiar chips.
Personally I have no idea what it could be.
Navi10 for example shouldn't have a higher FP64 ratio than 1/16 anyway.
Even if you think about something like dedicated hardware for ray tracing and tensor operations it doesn't sound like enough difference to warrant the development of two flavours of a chip.
And I don't think that's a chip used by the PS5/Xbox next.
Enhancements to facilitate VR rendering are almost certainly going to be in the design given some of the patents we've seen.
I think they could be significant. Sony already put in quite a few changes with PS4, then more with pro. For ps5 they will definitely want to take the learnings from PS4 and expand on them.
Well recent history points to my Prediction.
With PS4 + Pro it's like getting a stock Honda civic adding slightly better wheels + tires and a spoiler, it will give some advantages but on a race track there won't be to much difference to the stock model.
I don't see why anyone would think next gen they are going to add turbo chargers and other significant engine upgrades.
Remember ease of development is one of Cernys primary focuses, he is not going to want to complicate it even further by adding further custom solutions to an already new CPU + GPU architecture.
Who knows, IIRC AMD said something about working on it, but it seemed like it wouldn't be through something like Nvidia's RTX where they have RT cores specific for it.
Either way, for those first models, I wouldn't raise my hopes for it, if it's in, it'll be a very limited implementation. And it makes sense, it's kind of meh on the top of the line RTX cards right now, nvm whatever solution that can fit into a console APU.
That's underselling the importance of the customizations in PS4's SoC. They significantly enhanced its ability to do GPU compute alongside traditional graphics workloads without losing performance due to cache management and context-switching penalties which is a big deal given how much of the system's processing power was contained in the GPU.
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From what I understand, custom sauce for ray tracing is pretty much what the RTX cards already do. They use ray-tracing only where it's most effective, and without modem denoising tech it would look like crap. Actual ray-tracing without any shortcuts is still a long way off, and I'm not sure how either of the consoles would be able to do it very well. Maybe if prices drop heavily they could match a 2070, but it probably wouldn't be worth it.
I feel like ray-tracing would make for a solid add-on for the mid-gen models.
No its not.
PS4 is about AMD265 level it is not significantly better.
I honestly don't think so, not to the average consumer anyway. 4k is easy, "it's better than HD!". But raytracing? It makes the lighting better and more natural (essentially) , we get the effect, but most people? They'll just shrug. Not to mention you can't walk into a store and say "I want the tv with raytracing please". Unless it's something that's evident in media outside of gaming it won't move the needle for none hardcore
What the TFlops? After all the discussion here you still think that tells the whole story?
The TFlops rating indicates the capacity to do work. The optimizations I mentioned allow the PS4 to better make use of that capacity by doing computer operations during breaks in graphics processing load. Net effect is the PS4 can do more overall processing with the same hardware resources.
Average consumers buy cheap PS4 slim,not Pro.Those who buy now PS4 Pro will get PS5 Pro as well and that enthusiast group knows what ray tracing is.
No, the performance in 3rd party games.
But the tflops are practically identical on stock model.
How so? Over time, the delta between the performance of PS4 and XBOne versions of games is growing. Exactly as you'd expect when one architecture has the ability to more fully utilize it's hardware resources.
Because multiplats run on a Amd265 similarly as they do on a PS4.
Wait, was esram not implemented after the reveal of both consoles and it was a xlast minute" upgrade? That would explain where the die space went, but not why in the principal design it wasn't implemented. Unless I completely am remembering wrong, which is possible
No, you can add esram last min. Its a fundamental part of the design," the next logical step from the 360's edram" according to xbox engineers. It would of been decided early on in the process.
https://youtu.be/eiQv32imK2g
Ok. I'm legit wowed by the difference starting from 13:56.
Honestly, if we end up with GI very close to this in quality, I'll be happy come next-gen.
Ok. I'm legit wowed by the difference starting from 13:56.
Honestly, if we end up with GI very close to this in quality, I'll be happy come next-gen.
Thats my problem with some of the posts in here, people ignore any improvement / customization that is not improving tera flop number directly.
Only if microsoft wants a 400mm2 APU. It would be more expensive than the Xbox One X and needing beefier cooling.
However there is still the possibility that the console Navi APU is finished before the dGPU announcement/launch.
Interesting. I remember before the PS4 Pro specs were officially announced that there were rumors that Sony was considering 2 options, one with the specs we got and one with higher specs. If true, I wonder if the higher spec version was just the same thing with the GPU performing at 5.7TF and a better cooling solution to compensate. I imagine they saw the results that checkerboard rendering gave and decided to just save the effort (and possibly higher cost of the console) and went with what we got.
Raytracing is super expensive though. I'm skeptical we'll see RT on consoles before the arrival of PS5/Scarlett refreshes.
I honestly wish they'd gone with the higher-end model, but also still stuck with the reconstruction strategy at the same time. Assuming there was also more RAM, we likely would've gotten some big improvements to resolution across the board reconstructed 4K probably being a lot more common), and better framerates on games that the current Pro can run at reconstructed 4K.
I asked in another thread but I suppose this thread is more appropriate. When discussing devkits for the PS5, what about PSVR2? How would devkits work on that? Would Sony need to cobble together something for devs to use, or would they use PC VR headsets that roughly approximate their intended specs? Or would devs simply have to wait until they're able to pump out early variants of the consumer headsets?
Also, would working on a PSVR2 devkit also require them to have a PS5 devkit?
Also, would working on a PSVR2 devkit also require them to have a PS5 devkit?
While it would've been nice to get more power, I'm certain that would have increased the price. I imagine they figured the Pro would be a "good enough" upgrade to warrant its existence. Looking at the IQ we get on some games like Horizon and GoW, it's kinda hard to argue against it being good enough. The extra power probably would've helped some third parties though.
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