WTH is wrong with people? Why are people hoping for Checkerboard rendering when the machines will be perfectly capable of 4K. The XB1X is doing a lot of native 4K gaming right now. This isn't a distant far off goal.
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Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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Because some people value other graphics aspects moreso than resolution and thinks checkerboard 4k is good enough
But 4K with shiny graphics is going to happen. I have no problem with devs doing what they want but 4K is likely going to be standard.
because the Xbox One X can do native 4k,
ON SELECT CURRENT GENERATION TITLES
I would much rather checkerboard + all the bells and whistles.
Sure native will be there but there will be a lot less headroom for other graphical effects and features.
The guy who said Anthem is a mess and should have been delayed and leaked Sony's absence in this year's E3, describes PS5 as monster. i've strong feeling that sony is gonna melt our faces by revealing a 14-15tf + at least 20GB (16GB GDDR6 and 4GB DDR4) memory in PS meeting this or next year! mark my words.
How many games released recently are not doing 4K on the Xbox One X?
You can have 4K and still have the best looking games out. I would love to have an expensive console that can do that next generation.
You can have 4K and still have the best looking games out. I would love to have an expensive console that can do that next generation.
$250 if you want a non HDR, 43 inch
You can easily get limited, average HDR at 50-55 inches for $350-$400
I would love this, but my only hold up is Sony pricing. If they stay within $399, the system will only slightly burn our faces instead of melt them.
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The Wirecutter recommends the TCL 55S517 as their budget 4K pick, it supports HDR10 and Dolby Vision (though of course not in the best way) and it's $420.
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That's a given.
The question is how much native 4K there will be.
The leak also said PS5 would cost $500, but of course it's unlikely the price would've been set so far from launch so maybe it was a guess or estimate the time.
They would absolutely have a target price in mind from the outset. It is what shapes the machine.
For the 390 PS4 Pro enhanced games:
- 53 use cb or another temporal accumulation method
- 66 1440p
- 13 1800p
- 116 2160p
- 10 use enhanced geometry rendering
Dynamic resolutions are included with the max res being counted and games with multiple options are counted multiple times.
While not true of all the games listed, temporal accumulation methods and some combined with dynamic resolutions are used games pushing benchmark fidelity. Games like Battlefield 1 and V, Anthem, Sony fp post-pro launch, RDR2, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, GTS. etc., and the BF games are pushing a fairly solid 60fps(V more than 1). Again while not true of all, many of the native 4k games include sports games, remasters, and other games that can afford to push much higher resolutions.
Resolution list takeon from: https://www.resetera.com/threads/all-games-with-ps4-pro-enhancements.3101/
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Yup.... They have learned from their past mistakes. I am willing to bet that they have a consumer friendly price point (400) as the target, and they will build a machine that costs around that price point.
This is really odd. Cause the guy had correctly predicted both the absence of Sony at E3 and the mess that was (is) Anthem on consoles. Maybe he really knew a few things and guessed the price and the rest.
Not happening. Devs aren't going to waste GPU budget on native 4K. This gen has been excellent in preparing them for checkerboarding and dynamic resolutions next-gen.
No, no they won't. If you believed Sony regarding the PS3, it was going to be a 1080p machine. We know how that went.
The TCL 6 series can be had for that price range and is a good set.
More than anything I just want improved, out of the box backwards compatibility. As it stands I enjoy playing on my PC a lot more since I can play at ultrawide resolutions, but if I can play stuff like Spider-Man, SotC, and other PS4 exclusives at high res and framerate I'd be happy to make the jump sooner than I would otherwise.
What if you could have the bells and whistles and 4K? What if it's all possible!
Why 500 is not consumer friendly? XBox is not around and if it has PS4 b/c, the early adopter will just buy the first next gen. box. Early adopters are not price sensitive. 500 seems possible, as shown by 500 XBox One fighting against a 400 PS4.
Holy crap, no wonder they freaked out when people bought them to put in data centres with "Other OS", that is linux.
Rumor: Next Assassin's Creed "Legion" set in Rome,coming in 2020 on next gen consoles.
http://thecodex.network/legion-rumo...Y67uaTonyrOsp5rcbTqI5ncWYB-bmTEQlaJVcddGJu5ps
http://thecodex.network/legion-rumo...Y67uaTonyrOsp5rcbTqI5ncWYB-bmTEQlaJVcddGJu5ps
Maybe your right but gens don't normally work this way. I guess the mid gen refresh does change things but I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario where less games are 4k.
Native 4K for PS4 games is one thing. Native 4K for PS5 games is another ballpark.
I just want whatever causes the least issues. If you can get more out of CB, go with that. Both CB and native will be a good jump over 1080p anyway.
I just want whatever causes the least issues. If you can get more out of CB, go with that. Both CB and native will be a good jump over 1080p anyway.
I'm pretty sure in the early days, unless one console is massively underpowered, you'll find plenty of native 4K games.
The reason is simple. 3rd party games especially will mostly be cross-gen games where development started on current gen consoles, so the easiest thing to do will be to raise the resolution and maybe implement some of the high end PC settings.
Wouldn't be a surprise. Black Flag was a launch title so I think Ubisoft can build on the current AnvilNext 2.0 engine and get a game ready for the next-gen machine launch windows.
The PS4 was 400. The Pro was 400. The Pro was not competing with the X, because the X was about a year away when the Pro came out. Also, the economy is shit. That will drive manufacturers to not produce something that is more expensive. Which makes 400 an easier pill to swallow.
You have to look at the whole cost, not just console cost. There will be at least 2 games launching with the console. So you are adding 100 to 120 to the console. Most people will be spending 500 right off the bat. If the console cost more, then you will not be able to buy more games out the gate. Which costs Sony/MS money. And if the consoles are 100% BC, that really doesn't help Sony/MS in the short run for game sales.
If the consoles are 100% BC and cost 500, then we will see a huge upsurge in ps4/xbo trade-ins which will drop the value of the trade-in.
But I could be totally off base here, and both manufacturers could be shooting for the moon.
Right, but I was talking more about next gen only games. We'll have to see what those games turn out to be because they will be more demanding than this gen.
After Andromeda, and the general state of a lot of EA's recent output, predicting Anthem would be a mess might not be exactly Nostradamus-tier foresight.
Packaging a plausible rumor with a crazier rumor that people would like to see happen is a pretty standard way of suckering people.
Packaging a plausible rumor with a crazier rumor that people would like to see happen is a pretty standard way of suckering people.
Out of curiosity, if you had to lose one thing from the following list, which would it be?
- 4K native pixels
- HDR
- 60Hz
Exactly. He and the other guy don't get it. I'd rather have more of everything else. 4K doesn't matter.
Surprised to see that people think 15 TF is possible. Not wanting to dismiss any possibilities but I feel like 15TF is completely out of reach. Obviously I am not an insider and can't confirm it nor do I have the industry expertise to do a educated analysis of what is possible, but if I go by my own napkin math I'd think it isn't possible to get that result based on the limits we currently have and have seen in the past especially if we factor in actual stuff like thermal dissipation, price and sheer size of what would be required to achieve that.
Of course there are always unknown factors involved and surprises are possible but I am not sure if that holds true for raw TFLOPS and more often than not people use TFLOPs as basically the only thing related to performance so they want a higher number (we all do want that) but there is much more besides that when it comes to the final product we see on the screen as gamers.
In the past years I haven't seen any significant jumps related to TFLOPs that completely blew people away. The people that are smarter than me, and there are a lot in here who know that stuff, probably could educate us on how the semiconductor manufacturing process really works and what we can realistically except. We do not have a Navi card right now so we don't know how high they are going to clock, but looking at the chart Colbert made it is quite obvious that we need an ABSOLUTE beast of a GPU chip to achieve anything near 15 Tflops.
We can also go back in time and look at a similar situation in 2010-2012 when new GPU hardware came out and how it translated to the console words. Yes I know it is not a perfect comparison but still interesting to see.
Something I personally like to do is to look at high end GPUs at the time and how much TFLOPs they had and compare it to what eventually made it into the final console. Yes I know it is not what is going to determine what eventually will be in the PS5 or next Xbox, but I think it is still a good indicator of the spectrum of what is in a possible range.
When we look back in late 2010 we had the release of the AMD 6970 which was the best AMD card at that time with 2.7 TFLOPS. exactly 3 years later we got the Sony PS4 for 399$ with 1.8 TFLOPs GPU.
In 2011 the best AMD card was the HD 7970 with 3.8 TFLOPS. 2 years before the PS4 came out
The next big AMD card was the R9 290X (yay thats the card I have in my PC) with a staggering 5.6 TFLOPS and that card came out right around the release of the PS4 in late 2013.
The card that is somewhat close to the PS4 in terms of TFLOPs performance on the same NM that came out from AMD was the 7850 with 1.7-1.8 TFLOPS. That card came out in early 2012 for 249$. So roughly 1 1/2 years before the PS4 came out.
This is all on 28nm at the time. The PS4 aswell.
And for the next generation we know it is going to be 7nm. Atleast that is what the most logical thing is. I'd be surprised if it was anything but 7nm. Sadly we don't have 7nm Navi cards yet and that would gives us a much clearer picture of what to expect. The only thing we have is the 7nm Vega VII and going by that we would probably skew our estimations even further. Navi is probably a huge improvement over botched Vega and should achieve higher clocks.
Coming back to what I was originally going on about is that expecting 15 TFLOPs for the PS5 is probably the same as having expected the PS4 to be 3 TFLOPs or more at the time back in 2011-2012.
We are probably going to see 15 TFLOPs GPUs this year or next year (no idea if AMD or Nvidia), but I bet those are 600$+ flagship cards that draw too much power and are impossible to implement into a console that aims for a reasonably price point and power draw.
However I think being conservative with our expectations is also not what we should settle for. Looking at a late 2020 release I feel like 8 TFLOPs would be considered weak then. I think it is much more likely that they atleast strive to have double digits TFLOPS (10+) for marketing reasons (if nothing else).
If I had to place my bets on it (only taking about PS5) :
- 8 Tflops and lower : extremely unlikely
- 8-10 Tflops : possible, but I feel positive about Navi achieving good clocks so I think below 10Tflops is unlikely
- 10-12 Tflops : where my money is. 10Tflops is what I would expect. 12 Tflops is what would impress me
- 12-15 Tflops : unlikely, almost impossible. Maybe a higher priced console?
- 15+ Tflops : absolutely impossible in my opinion.
Sorry for the long post my friends. I would welcome it if anyone with more knowledge on this topic would correct me on things where I am wrong or making false assumptions.
Of course there are always unknown factors involved and surprises are possible but I am not sure if that holds true for raw TFLOPS and more often than not people use TFLOPs as basically the only thing related to performance so they want a higher number (we all do want that) but there is much more besides that when it comes to the final product we see on the screen as gamers.
In the past years I haven't seen any significant jumps related to TFLOPs that completely blew people away. The people that are smarter than me, and there are a lot in here who know that stuff, probably could educate us on how the semiconductor manufacturing process really works and what we can realistically except. We do not have a Navi card right now so we don't know how high they are going to clock, but looking at the chart Colbert made it is quite obvious that we need an ABSOLUTE beast of a GPU chip to achieve anything near 15 Tflops.
We can also go back in time and look at a similar situation in 2010-2012 when new GPU hardware came out and how it translated to the console words. Yes I know it is not a perfect comparison but still interesting to see.
Something I personally like to do is to look at high end GPUs at the time and how much TFLOPs they had and compare it to what eventually made it into the final console. Yes I know it is not what is going to determine what eventually will be in the PS5 or next Xbox, but I think it is still a good indicator of the spectrum of what is in a possible range.
When we look back in late 2010 we had the release of the AMD 6970 which was the best AMD card at that time with 2.7 TFLOPS. exactly 3 years later we got the Sony PS4 for 399$ with 1.8 TFLOPs GPU.
In 2011 the best AMD card was the HD 7970 with 3.8 TFLOPS. 2 years before the PS4 came out
The next big AMD card was the R9 290X (yay thats the card I have in my PC) with a staggering 5.6 TFLOPS and that card came out right around the release of the PS4 in late 2013.
The card that is somewhat close to the PS4 in terms of TFLOPs performance on the same NM that came out from AMD was the 7850 with 1.7-1.8 TFLOPS. That card came out in early 2012 for 249$. So roughly 1 1/2 years before the PS4 came out.
This is all on 28nm at the time. The PS4 aswell.
And for the next generation we know it is going to be 7nm. Atleast that is what the most logical thing is. I'd be surprised if it was anything but 7nm. Sadly we don't have 7nm Navi cards yet and that would gives us a much clearer picture of what to expect. The only thing we have is the 7nm Vega VII and going by that we would probably skew our estimations even further. Navi is probably a huge improvement over botched Vega and should achieve higher clocks.
Coming back to what I was originally going on about is that expecting 15 TFLOPs for the PS5 is probably the same as having expected the PS4 to be 3 TFLOPs or more at the time back in 2011-2012.
We are probably going to see 15 TFLOPs GPUs this year or next year (no idea if AMD or Nvidia), but I bet those are 600$+ flagship cards that draw too much power and are impossible to implement into a console that aims for a reasonably price point and power draw.
However I think being conservative with our expectations is also not what we should settle for. Looking at a late 2020 release I feel like 8 TFLOPs would be considered weak then. I think it is much more likely that they atleast strive to have double digits TFLOPS (10+) for marketing reasons (if nothing else).
If I had to place my bets on it (only taking about PS5) :
- 8 Tflops and lower : extremely unlikely
- 8-10 Tflops : possible, but I feel positive about Navi achieving good clocks so I think below 10Tflops is unlikely
- 10-12 Tflops : where my money is. 10Tflops is what I would expect. 12 Tflops is what would impress me
- 12-15 Tflops : unlikely, almost impossible. Maybe a higher priced console?
- 15+ Tflops : absolutely impossible in my opinion.
Sorry for the long post my friends. I would welcome it if anyone with more knowledge on this topic would correct me on things where I am wrong or making false assumptions.
Yep. We'll have had 7 years of cumalative inflation since the PS4 launched at a consumer friendly $399 in the US. $449 would be relatively cheaper. Not sure where the obsession with the $399 comes from. There's plenty of people who will pay more to get in early. $499 is right, price drop later on.
Most likely not. Honestly, that's why Microsoft is taking that approach. You win either way!
Yes and you could have more at 480p. I'm all for devs making their own choices but I suspect most devs are going to target native 4K at least on the "premium" consoles. Native 4K is superior.
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