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When will the first 'next gen' console be revealed?

  • First half of 2019

    Votes: 593 15.6%
  • Second half of 2019(let's say post E3)

    Votes: 1,361 35.9%
  • First half of 2020

    Votes: 1,675 44.2%
  • 2021 :^)

    Votes: 161 4.2%

  • Total voters
    3,790
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 25, 2017
17,904
How many consoles did Sony sell in the PS2 era, and what was their market share as a total?
How many consoles did they sell the next generation and what was their market share as a total?
Microsoft with the 360 and Nintendo with the Wii cut a lot into what was Sony's established market share. They re-established themselves this generation as the to go to platform holder with the Wii U floundering and the Xbox One disastrous launch.

If Nintendo, Microsoft, Google etc perform better, it will come with Sony losing dominance. It is just how business works, how it will continue to work......that will not change next gen either.
Did you ignore what I just said?

I said it depends on how well Sony announces their console. They did a terrible job with that last gen. That is why it happened. As soon as they got it together? Well, you see what is happening this gen. Sony will determine how it ends up for Sony.

Everyone can certainly improve but it doesn't mean Sony will lose out. They have a particular role they fill worldwide. Countries like Japan, Spain, Germany, etc... aren't going to suddenly flip around because of what you mentioned. This is assuming Sony launches strong.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
Did you ignore what I just said?

I said it depends on how well Sony announces their console. They did a terrible job with that last gen. That is why it happened. As soon as they got it together? Well, you see what is happening this gen. Sony will determine how it ends up for Sony.
Sony does not determine that, the market does.

How many were really expecting that the Switch would be doing as great as it is? Nintendo got a solution that worked that was an adaptation of what they did with the Wii U that now resonated with gamers across the globe. Sony and any other player can only determine what product it is they come up with, nothing that the other competitors do or how those will appeal to the general public.

Edit. For what its worth, I know of gamers who are Playstation bound because that is what they have always got, but I also know of people that are going to switch if Sony does not have something similar to Game Pass by the time these consoles launch. It has nothing to do with power, but a whole lot to do with cost savings when it comes to first party, something that Microsoft is improving in.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Guys, 14tflops PS5 is actually happening!

giphy.gif
It for sure is not ;) 11.5 TF book it ;-)
 

Son Goku

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,332
The Xbox has been cheaper most of the gen and it can play all the new multiplat games. Has it changed anything?

You still have to keep the context of the market in mind. Sony's market is far bigger. A cheaper SKU would certainly help MS but it wouldn't necessarily come at the cost of Sony's single SKU.

Everything doesn't have to be "Oh boy, this move is going to kill the other one!". It can just be about helping the company in particular making the move.
Hey yeah wait a sec aren't we in our hypothetical scenario? X is more expensive and more powerful than any PlayStation. Base Xbox one is less powerful and less expensive than PlayStation. Playstation is in the middle in both. Like move the prices all up $100 and we have our next gen scenario
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
There is a market for consoles and gaming that players are looking to get into. Not many people end up getting multiple consoles either.

If Nintendo and Microsoft do wildly better from 2020 going forward, it will mean that Sony is losing market share. If Stadia and game streaming services also catch on, it is likely that established players will be losing out.......it is just how the business works.

In the US, that's simply not true. Many people get multiple consoles: https://gonintendo.com/stories/315270-npd-says-70-of-switch-owners-also-own-a-ps4-or-xbox-one. There really isn't a need to own both an XB1 and a PS4 though.
 

Shoshi

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
1,661
If PS5 has BC with magic graphics/performance improvements, then I think their current huge player base would gladly buy a premium price to get access to it.
Why invest in a new ecosystem?
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
In the US, that's simply not true. Many people get multiple consoles: https://gonintendo.com/stories/315270-npd-says-70-of-switch-owners-also-own-a-ps4-or-xbox-one. There really isn't a need to own both an XB1 and a PS4 though.
There are countries where this would be true, but on a worldwide scale, most people are simply not bothered with getting two consoles. They will pick one and stay with it, and there are ways in which this entire business model could change if cross platform play becomes a thing.

If PS5 has BC with magic graphics/performance improvements, then I think their current player base would gladly buy a premium price to get access to it.
Why invest in a new ecosystem?
When has BC ever mattered? The PS4 does not have it, Nintendo is not supporting it with the Switch.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
There are countries where this would be true, but on a worldwide scale, most people are simply not bothered with getting two consoles. They will pick one and stay with it, and there are ways in which this entire business model could change if cross platform play becomes a thing.

When has BC ever mattered? The PS4 does not have it, Nintendo is not supporting it with the Switch.
In the digital era it matters in the first year or 2 . If Sony puts bc there isn't much MS can do to encourage the base to move to their platform and restart library from zero. We are in digital era .u can't compare it to generation when physical was 85% of sales . Fortnite, Apex and cod iiii is still a thing next year
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
17,904
Sony does not determine that, the market does.

How many were really expecting that the Switch would be doing as great as it is? Nintendo got a solution that worked that was an adaptation of what they did with the Wii U that now resonated with gamers across the globe. Sony and any other player can only determine what product it is they come up with, nothing that the other competitors do or how those will appeal to the general public.

Edit. For what its worth, I know of gamers who are Playstation bound because that is what they have always got, but I also know of people that are going to switch if Sony does not have something similar to Game Pass by the time these consoles launch. It has nothing to do with power, but a whole lot to do with cost savings when it comes to first party, something that Microsoft is improving in.
We can agree to disagree.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
In the digital era it matters in the first year or 2 . If Sony puts bc there isn't much MS can do to prevent the base to move to their platform and restart library from zero. We are in digital era .u can't compare it to generation when physical was 85% of sales .
I have always insisted that this thing (backwards compatibility) only matters because it is good optics and not because it is something that will make or break a console. Digital was a thing last generation, and Microsoft lost market share despite having it. It is a thing this generation too and it will most likely not matter going forward.

If you are looking at the most popular charts each month from Microsoft or Sony platforms, it is mostly new stuff that dominates with the occasional older title. Most gamers are not going back to old stuff, and do not care to go back to old stuff whether it be physical media or digital.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
I have always insisted that this thing (backwards compatibility) only matters because it is good optics and not because it is something that will make or break a console. Digital was a thing last generation, and Microsoft lost market share despite having it. It is a thing this generation too and it will most likely not matter going forward.

If you are looking at the most popular charts each month from Microsoft or Sony platforms, it is mostly new stuff that dominates with the occasional older title. Most gamers are not going back to old stuff, and do not care to go back to old stuff whether it be physical media or digital.
We agree to disagree .fortnite will still be very important next year and so will Apex legends.if the base can continue playing these improved they will bite fast instead of restarting their stat and progression
 

Hoo-doo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,292
The Netherlands
The Xbox has been cheaper most of the gen and it can play all the new multiplat games. Has it changed anything?

You still have to keep the context of the market in mind. Sony's market is far bigger. A cheaper SKU would certainly help MS but it wouldn't necessarily come at the cost of Sony's single SKU.

Everything doesn't have to be "Oh boy, this move is going to kill the other one!". It can just be about helping the company in particular making the move.

Exactly. Xbox already has the power edge and the cheapest console currently. It didn't affect sales or mindshare in any meaningful way. People like what Playstation is offering in terms of hardware and games and there's a lot of regions where Xbox simply isn't relevant at all. To assume that it'll magically be different next gen is pretty odd.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
We agree to disagree .fortnite will still be very important next year and so will Apex legends.if the base can continue playing these improved they will bite fast instead of restarting their stat and progression

I'll play Devil's advocate; it is similar that Fortnite now is crossplay everywhere so your account/progression can carry over to either platform. If that's the case for big games like fortnite, apex, and at some point call of duty then it won't matter which console you are on for those games.

But the bigger thing that will matter is like you said, if you have a big digital library. If you have a lot of single player games that you bought digitally I feel that locks you into that ecosystem if BC is available out the gate for your library on the next gen.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
We agree to disagree .fortnite will still be very important next year and so will Apex legends.if the base can continue playing these improved they will bite fast instead of restarting their stat and progression
The assumption being made is that people will care more about BC because they have a more digital library. I do not see it. You either care about it or not, and history has shown that many simply do not across multiple generations.

Next gen will once again be determined by the market and what platform holder has a platform that appeals to the market.

As I also stated, cross play could have a huge disruption to the industry if it becomes a thing early next generation. Most of the games that are made are third party, and as stated above Sony is basically the last platform holder that is against this because it wants to tie people and their purchases to their platform.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
The assumption being made is that people will care more about BC because they have a more digital library. I do not see it. You either care about it or not, and history has shown that many simply do not across multiple generations.

Next gen will once again be determined by the market and what platform holder has a platform that appeals to the market.

Everyone has seriously told you how much of a hold digital has currently. It's huge now, so huge it's evolution is now being a big focal point with streaming. But even more so services for you to have a netflix game experience and have a giant selection at your fingertips has proven to be somewhat working for MS. But the majority of the market regardless of what platform even for Nintendo has shown how much this generation digital has grown. Digital was around for last gen, but it had such a small market share, like something 20%. It grew to 35 when the new gen started, and has increased even more since then.

I'll play devil's advocate with another example:

Why is there such a giant conversation right now about steam and Epic store? Is it because people just hate epic? Or is it because games people want to play are on another store platform that they don't have their entire invested library on?

Food for thought.
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
In the digital era it matters in the first year or 2 . If Sony puts bc there isn't much MS can do to encourage the base to move to their platform and restart library from zero. We are in digital era .u can't compare it to generation when physical was 85% of sales . Fortnite, Apex and cod iiii is still a thing next year
How much is the ratio between digital and physical? We are very far from the point where people CANT jump ship...if (IF) theres real value people will take notice and jump.
Also not all digital buyers sell the console when they buy the new one
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
There are countries where this would be true, but on a worldwide scale, most people are simply not bothered with getting two consoles. They will pick one and stay with it, and there are ways in which this entire business model could change if cross platform play becomes a thing.

Can you give me any more information about why you feel this way? When you use terms like 'most', I expect there should be some evidence as to why you feel that strongly about it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
If is 499 and it risk @50% to not be the most powerful console and on the market there's another full HD console that play the same multiplat big hits games for 299 or 399 ..well then...there are lots of things that doesn't work in one sku console strategy

Price is honestly irrelevant at a console launch because the console will sell out regardless. Having a lower priced console will help to accelerate uptake of new gen consoles in year 2/3 when production is able to catch up to consumer demand, but then console prices can be cut in year 2 or 3 with aggresive cost reduction like with what Sony achieved on PS3.

A lower priced console doesn't come for free though, and the lower specs will cause more issues for games and game devs in general. In principle it kinda even defeats the whole purpose of a new-gen console which is to move the hardware performance baseline to a more modern performance level -- having a gimped low spec SKU works against that, it diminishes the percieved jump in game tech advancement from the previous gen. and even more so in a market with mid-gen refreshes and a significant slowdown in process tech progression that stymies what is economically possible at the top end for consoles with modest TDP and silicon budgets.

So there's no validity to the idea that the 2 SKUs may output at different resolutions to offset the discrepancy in GPU power?

You're citing a band-aid for an inherent flaw as a benefit?

There's this prevailing misconception that game graphics, mechanics and game systems technology are infinitely scaleable and that lowering resolution is a silver bullet that means you can run the most complex and technically advanced games on a target spec as low as a smartphone, as long as the CPU remains the same... it's a myth.

Before you even get as far as having a content complete game to test and lower resolution on, you have to design a game for a given minimum target hardware spec. When it comes to the core game design there will be systems, mechanics and even graphics technology choices that will be limited/restricted by having to target a hardware config that is significantly weaker than all other platforms you are targeting; even if the only element significantly weaker is the GPU (the limitations will be considerably worse if it has less RAM).

Choice of global illumination lighting systems, physics and other non-graphics computations using GPU compute, as well as other graphics feature choices that aren't tied to rendering resolutions will be significantly held back by having to also target a weaker box.

It's not about can it run after the fact, after you already have a fully working game. It's about what can you make.

Conceptual game design during pre-production is rife with decisions on ideas that have to be thown out because the target hardware spec. isn't powerful enough to realise those ideas. And in an age where games have been designed more and more around GPU capabilities after many gens of working with conparatively weak console CPUs, maximising GPU performance for a next-gen console has never been more important to opening more technological doors for devs to realise their creative visions.

A weak console hardware spec. works entirely against that.

It's not even just opening up more game technology avenues for developers. A higher performance target baseline can also aid development workflow, which can have an even more dramatic effect.

I'd even argue this the single most important black mark against the multi-SKU approach.

Higher base specs mean technology that allows devs to work smarter and be more efficient can be leveraged. Procedural methods for animation, asset creation etc, even raytracing can improve content iteration processes and are all great examples of tech. that can radically improve developer workflow, meaning less time to make games of a similar size and fidelity; leading either to higher fidelity games or even larger, richer and more detailed gameworlds.

To me the only arguments for a multi-SKU approach are commercial ones (and they are few and far outweighed by the disadvantages).

The advantages for a single fixed hardware spec that pushes hardware performance as far as is economincally practical, are legion and the reason why console have existed and been so successful in the first place.

A lot of posters in their enthusiasm for other non-console platforms seem to quickly forget this.
 
Last edited:

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
How much is the ratio between digital and physical? We are very far from the point where people CANT jump ship...if (IF) theres real value people will take notice and jump.
Also not all digital buyers sell the console when they buy the new one
Well last year for UK it was around 50% digital. I personally have more than 75% of my games digital and I love all of them .if Sony provides BC I m there day 1 for ps5.but if they don't I LL make sure next gen I buy all of it physical again.

For my case, Sony has proved time and again they will deliver games I like maybe late but they will so that's why ps5 will be a blind buy for me regardless of the launch games and BC(speaking from prespective of someone who switched from Xbox and Xbox 360 to ps3 and PS4.MS proved to me that they will jump on bandwagon of anything that's popular,,,,,motion control and Kinect, now gaas games .god knows what's popular next gen .so I can't really count on anything until they prove me wrong which I m kinda hopeful they will this time)
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
How much is the ratio between digital and physical? We are very far from the point where people CANT jump ship...if (IF) theres real value people will take notice and jump.
Also not all digital buyers sell the console when they buy the new one
I would say its probably around 40% or more now. For me though, its 100%. I have not ever even held a physical game in my hands since 2013. Muh less pu one in my console.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,904
I m between 11.5 to 12 tf haha I tend to gravitate more toward 11.5 .don't know why
This topic has shifted dramatically towards fanboy drivel.



11-11.8TF train here. I'm a touch more curious about the CPU though given how much of a limiting factor it became on current gen system.
Yeah, I could also see it being upper 11. Jason said they are aiming above Stadia, so just being 11 would be kinda odd. That is practically the same as Stadia. It would have to be 12 ish with upper 11 being the minimum.
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,224
Portugal
I'd say neither shift is gonna attrack many of it's competitors users (not at any higher rate than usual, at least) if they both have BC.

In any case, if neither calls their "boost" modes the "secret sauce" mode, they're doing it wrong!
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,018
Florida
Can someone tell me what's the point of having 1tb SSD vs having a small SSD for textures and rest HDD? Other than small gain in load times I mean.

I rather Sony spend that money on gpu and cooling to be honest

Normally we consider the RAM to be the small cache for textures. I want an actual SSD 1TB min drive.

I see the fanboy has gotten thick in here. I can't wait to see what these guys come up with for next gen. Which camp pushes ray tracing on the HW front? Which one will go with a SSD? Which customizations will lead to meaningful differences? It's going to be fun. Try not to kill each other.
 
Jun 27, 2018
73
Stockholm
Well last year for UK it was around 50% digital. I personally have more than 75% of my games digital and I love all of them .if Sony provides BC I m there day 1 for ps5.but if they don't I LL make sure next gen I buy all of it physical again.

For my case, Sony has proved time and again they will deliver games I like maybe late but they will so that's why ps5 will be a blind buy for me regardless of the launch games and BC(speaking from prespective of someone who switched from Xbox and Xbox 360 to ps3 and PS4.MS proved to me that they will jump on bandwagon of anything that's popular,,,,,motion control and Kinect, now gaas games .god knows what's popular next gen .so I can't really count on anything until they prove me wrong which I m kinda hopeful they will this time)

This kind of makes sense, but at the same time it doesn't. If you buy the games with the intent of keeping them and never selling them, no BC means you'll have to keep the old console no matter if it's digital or disc. If you plan to sell your games, how much can you really expect to get for last gen games? I really don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I can't see it being enough to dictate which next gen console to buy.
 

Son Goku

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,332
There are countries where this would be true, but on a worldwide scale, most people are simply not bothered with getting two consoles. They will pick one and stay with it, and there are ways in which this entire business model could change if cross platform play becomes a thing.

When has BC ever mattered? The PS4 does not have it, Nintendo is not supporting it with the Switch.

And wiiu and X1 DID have it
 

mangochutney

Member
Jun 11, 2018
375
Well last year for UK it was around 50% digital. I personally have more than 75% of my games digital and I love all of them .if Sony provides BC I m there day 1 for ps5.but if they don't I LL make sure next gen I buy all of it physical again.
Ukie puts it at 50%, whilst ERA says 80%. But remember that is revenue. DLC is of course going to be 100% digital revenue. It also includes subscriptions (so PS+, XBL).

The ERA which gives the most 'alarming' digital figures, says physical revenues are down, but only by a few percent. So I don't think the split is as much as you might think.

They did specifically give mention to FIFA being 25% digital. And that's an evergreen game people play all year and has a poor trade in value when you're done - ie. a good game to digitally buy.

But to return to the topic, and the poster you were previously replying to I do think we're at a stage where there's too many people invested to the point where they would demand BC and not want to jump ship and leave their catalog behind.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Normally we consider the RAM to be the small cache for textures. I want an actual SSD 1TB min drive.

I see the fanboy has gotten thick in here. I can't wait to see what these guys come up with for next gen. Which camp pushes ray tracing on the HW front? Which one will go with a SSD? Which customizations will lead to meaningful differences? It's going to be fun. Try not to kill each other.
For what purpose may I ask ? Just 1 min faster load times ??
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
Normally we consider the RAM to be the small cache for textures. I want an actual SSD 1TB min drive.

That would be incorrect.

RAM is the main high-bandwidth, low latency, workspace for the GPU + CPU in a UMA console.

Games aren't installed in RAM but game data will still need to be moved in and out of RAM regardless.

Functionally, a smaller SSD cache + HDD managed by the HBCC and a full SSD mass storage device with HBCC partition will operate mostly the exact same way.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Ukie puts it at 50%, whilst ERA says 80%. But remember that is revenue. DLC is of course going to be 100% digital revenue. It also includes subscriptions (so PS+, XBL).

The ERA which gives the most 'alarming' digital figures, says physical revenues are down, but only by a few percent. So I don't think the split is as much as you might think.

They did specifically give mention to FIFA being 25% digital. And that's an evergreen game people play all year and has a poor trade in value when you're done - ie. a good game to digitally buy.

But to return to the topic, and the poster you were previously replying to I do think we're at a stage where there's too many people invested to the point where they would demand BC and not want to jump ship and leave their catalog behind.
U raise a good point about revenue.so actual % is for sure lower .but we are at a weird stage where many people expect it .if Sony wants to create a platform they need to ensure their store keeps growing rather than being reset every generation.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,837
Australia
For what purpose may I ask ? Just 1 min faster load times ??

Having an actual SSD in there that game devs can design their games around means more than load times. It would, if I'm understanding this correctly, mean they could design their texture streaming systems around the SSD speeds so many textures could just stream right from the SSD, so a lot of RAM would be freed up for other stuff. If there was no guaranteed SSD, they would be forced to go with standard, RAM-hogging texture systems, for the people using HDDs.

At least, that's what I've been told. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

That would be incorrect.

RAM is the main high-bandwidth, low latency, workspace for the GPU + CPU in a UMA console.

Games aren't installed in RAM but game data will still need to be moved in and out of RAM regardless.

Functionally, a smaller SSD cache + HDD managed by the HBCC and a full SSD mass storage device with HBCC partition will operate mostly the exact same way.

How much time would it take for the game data to move into the SSD cache every time you started the game?
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
Can someone tell me what's the point of having 1tb SSD vs having a small SSD for textures and rest HDD? Other than small gain in load times I mean.

I rather Sony spend that money on gpu and cooling to be honest

Smaller capacities of flash give you less bandwidth. Fewer chips means fewer paths for data to travel. This will make for a meaningful difference in how useful that fast pool of storage is for developers.
 

VallenValiant

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,598
This kind of makes sense, but at the same time it doesn't. If you buy the games with the intent of keeping them and never selling them, no BC means you'll have to keep the old console no matter if it's digital or disc. If you plan to sell your games, how much can you really expect to get for last gen games? I really don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I can't see it being enough to dictate which next gen console to buy.
Switching ecosystems is always annoying and tedious. The point is that the start of a new generation is suppose to be the time when brand loyalty is at its weakest, when the 2nd place console could make the argument that they should be the new leader.

BC doesn't convince someone to switch sides; it merely makes it less likely for someone to leave the ecosystem behind. In essence it is a defensive maneuver that protects the existing user base and doesn't directly attack the opposition. It was a tactic Sony was well aware of for PS2's release. And they tried to force the argument in PS3 by literally jamming a PS2 inside it in the first iteration.
This wasn't done in PS4 because Sony really, really doesn't want The Cell dragging the Playstation brand down.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
How much time would it take for the game data to move into the SSD cache every time you started the game?

It depends on the game, how much data and interface of the SSD cache.

It's not really a useful question, however.

Games currently are seeing at the most 1-2 minutes for an initial load (into RAM) at start-up; and that's for games with the most obtuse load times (*cough*Anthem*cough*).

An SSD cache would be just as much a boon to load times as a full SSD mass storage device.

The HBCC would manage the cache and swap in and out data as needed. Whether the cache is a physical SSD cache or a partition on an SSD drive is kinda immaterial.
 

Tappin Brews

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,873
I'm posting it again, many users already have forgotten that we were given actual info about Xbox Anaconda by a genuine insider.

Brad Sams(xbox insider) talks about Anaconda and Lockhart. [starts @1:35]


I recommend watching the video.


Quick Summary.

--According to Brad Sams, Microsoft's idea is to match PS5 in power/price with Anaconda.He never said Anaconda will be
priced higher than PS5.

-Lockhart will provide entry level next gen gaming at much lower price than PS5. He also says Lockhart will be more powerful than XBOX ONE X (Starts at 2:24)


"4k gaming at 60 fps for the lockheart console"

yeaaaah, no. this line of thinking in his video makes me question many of his other takes. plus, i dont think he knows squat about ps5.
 

Dokkaebi G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,922
well i believe cross play and xcloud are vital for MS moving forward. Especially because of Mobile devices. $800+ devices in so many peoples hands.
i also wonder what "new" features will be shown off for the next consoles. Will VR get another spotlight? Will AR be introduced in the xbox family? Just a few questions i think about.

Also, power will mean a lot for how headlines will be posted about each respective console. a lot of casual gamers will rely on facebook/social media for what's "better". it happened this gen, it will happen again. some things will always repeat.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
4,018
Florida
It depends on the game, how much data and interface of the SSD cache.

It's not really a useful question, however.

Games currently are seeing at the most 1-2 minutes for an initial load (into RAM) at start-up; and that's for games with the most obtuse load times (*cough*Anthem*cough*).

An SSD cache would be just as much a boon to load times as a full SSD mass storage device.

The HBCC would manage the cache and swap in and out data as needed. Whether the cache is a physical SSD cache or a partition on an SSD drive is kinda immaterial.

Right - so you see how textures are loaded into RAM for fast caching.
That would be incorrect.

RAM is the main high-bandwidth, low latency, workspace for the GPU + CPU in a UMA console.

Games aren't installed in RAM but game data will still need to be moved in and out of RAM regardless.

Functionally, a smaller SSD cache + HDD managed by the HBCC and a full SSD mass storage device with HBCC partition will operate mostly the exact same way.

Wait, are you trying to tell me textures aren't loaded into RAM?

RAM is used for multiple functions.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
Everyone has seriously told you how much of a hold digital has currently. It's huge now, so huge it's evolution is now being a big focal point with streaming. But even more so services for you to have a netflix game experience and have a giant selection at your fingertips has proven to be somewhat working for MS. But the majority of the market regardless of what platform even for Nintendo has shown how much this generation digital has grown. Digital was around for last gen, but it had such a small market share, like something 20%. It grew to 35 when the new gen started, and has increased even more since then.

I'll play devil's advocate with another example:

Why is there such a giant conversation right now about steam and Epic store? Is it because people just hate epic? Or is it because games people want to play are on another store platform that they don't have their entire invested library on?

Food for thought.
Again, the assumption is that people will care more about BC because it is digital. I have physical games going to the PS1 era, I have friends that have content that go back to the cartridge era. They are not touching any of those games the same way they are not bothered to play any games from the last generation even if they are digital.

You play games because you enjoy them, not because of the format they came out on.

When it comes to Epic versus Steam, does it really matter? You have a library either way, the only thing that matters is that the login will be somewhere else. The people that this decision matters is the publishers and developers because they are gaining money back they would be paying to Valve vis a vis Epic. The only issues that then stick out would be some I have seen raised in terms on how the Epic Store is structured an how secure it might be, cannot really remember what the specifics were. Outside that, it is mainly down to preference i.e. I have been buying games from this store and would like to stay here.

Nintendo is not offering BC, Sony is not offering it either and they are doing fine. I know a huge amount of games that are playing games mainly for FIFA, NBA2K. Back compat will mean absolutely nothing to them once they have jumped to a new generation. Most of the single player games that have little replay value outside traditional RPG's where choice has consequence attached suffer the same fate.

BC is something that has always mattered mostly to the hardcore and not much outside that. It is a feature that would be great to have, but it is not something that will make or break a console. Uncharted 2 was one of the best games that I played last generation and I am not looking to play it again whether it is digital or physical. Games purchased long ago on PC like The Sims, Max Payne, Fallout today have no relevance. We live in a world where people would naturally love to move on to something better as tech evolves.

Streaming is also a focal point because of how it manages to lower the barrier for entry, spreading lower costs over more users. Companies are following that model because it would offer more reliable revenues. Music has gone that route, TV and movies have too. It was only natural that gaming would similarly follow suite.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,837
Australia
It depends on the game, how much data and interface of the SSD cache.

It's not really a useful question, however.

Games currently are seeing at the most 1-2 minutes for an initial load (into RAM) at start-up; and that's for games with the most obtuse load times (*cough*Anthem*cough*).

An SSD cache would be just as much a boon to load times as a full SSD mass storage device.

The HBCC would manage the cache and swap in and out data as needed. Whether the cache is a physical SSD cache or a partition on an SSD drive is kinda immaterial.

I think I understand. I was thinking that the larger SSD might be better because it would hold an entire game for ages and you could start it up right off the bat once it was installed with no caching time needed, but I suppose it wouldn't matter a huge amount.
 

grosbard

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
767
well i believe cross play and xcloud are vital for MS moving forward. Especially because of Mobile devices. $800+ devices in so many peoples hands.
i also wonder what "new" features will be shown off for the next consoles. Will VR get another spotlight? Will AR be introduced in the xbox family? Just a few questions i think about.

Also, power will mean a lot for how headlines will be posted about each respective console. a lot of casual gamers will rely on facebook/social media for what's "better". it happened this gen, it will happen again. some things will always repeat.

I"m curious about the "new" features too. I'm think Microsoft is going to focus on play anywhere, xcloud, streaming etc. etc. In other words, they are going to hit the services aspect hard. Sony...I'm honestly not sure. I don't see them launching new PSVR hardware along the PS5 but who knows.

I was literally just thinking about your last statement lol. Lots of casuals will see random articles/videos from games sites or news sites that cover games. This gen, the ps4 was the lead console and is what pretty much every journalist used. I'm curious what impact that had on casuals and sales.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY


Would you say Epic Game store is feature rich? Would you say it would give the same experience people now come to expect from a launcher? Because Epic Store doesn't even have a cart.

And honestly the options steam has for Friend launcher, library organization, big picture mode among being able to use it on MaC OS and Linux is a big deal.
So I would say the features steam has is one of the biggest take away's on top of the money people have invested.

That correlates to console ecosystem. If you own Halo, gears, forza, red dead, among other titles digitally are you going to throw away all your playtime/progression?
Answer is probably no.
You will stay in that ecosystem.
Same is for if you have an MMO you play regularly if it changes where it is console wise, then thats a issue.

Do you think people would want to start over?
That's the idea people are trying to get across to you.

This entire gen Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony are trying with different success to keep you into their ecosystem.
If you think someone who is heavily invested in PSN has subs, has a good size digital library will move over to xbox if his library is accessible on the new Playstation you are sadly misguided.
 
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