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When will the first 'next gen' console be revealed?

  • First half of 2019

    Votes: 593 15.6%
  • Second half of 2019(let's say post E3)

    Votes: 1,361 35.9%
  • First half of 2020

    Votes: 1,675 44.2%
  • 2021 :^)

    Votes: 161 4.2%

  • Total voters
    3,790
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Manixramz

Member
Apr 4, 2018
335
come on man 4tf is bullshit.it will be 7 to 8 TF. weaker than PS4 pro 4 years later in 2020 gpu wise? that doesnt make sense

believe me man , im with u , i was thinking it is bullshit and i actually thought lockhart will be similar power to PS5 and anaconda is more to high spec premium console that pro gamers will buy .

But damn DF said 4tf is happening ... haha

though 4tf with new zen 2 and navi wont be same as ps4 pro.

lets hope for all console is higher than 8tf
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Well everything scales linearly up to a certain point.
A game is going to have different gpu requirements

At 720p, 1080p, 1440p and 2160p

You have failed to explain why taking a game working on a console at 2160p and then then lowering the res to 1080p on a far lower powered GPU would not work?

You have said a game is more then resolution, it's physics, polycount etc yes but those things require less resources at a lower resolution, a falling down bridge is going require less compute at 1080p as opposed to 4k because it is literally less data, less data to compute.
again designing a game from scratch for a 14TF machine is different than designing a game for a 14 Tf machine with the 4 Tf machine in mind as base. you keep talking about a game scaled with 4 Tf machine in mind to scale down the game(ie minimum requirement spec in PC ).if the minimum required spec is 14 Tf rather than 4 tf the game engines differ drastically. and who said it has to be 4k on 14 TF machine? MS is in no position to force such things on 3rd parties.even sony doesn't dare to do that being the market leader .
 
Last edited:
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
again designing a game from scratch for a 14TF machine is different than designing a game for a 4 Tf machine. you keep talking about a game scaled with 4 Tf machine in mind to scale down the game(ie minimum requirement spec in PC ).if the minimum required spec is 14 Tf vs 4 tf the game engines differ drastically. and who said it has to be 4k on 14 TF machine? MS is in no position to force such things on 3rd parties.even sony doesn't dare to do that being the market leader .

Yes for lockhart to be a minimum of 1080p it would need have about 1/2 the tflops of anaconda.
Although ram setup does play a part, as we have seen with pro vs 1x, looking at the 1x's tflop count it should not be able to do double the res of the pro ( if you go by ps4 to pro, double the tflops was required to double the resolution, but it was not with the pro to 1x)
 

itchi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,287
And people continuously seem to forget that it's exactly the strategy they already have currently, what with the X1S being the cheapest console on the market and the XB1X the most expensive 'beefy' one.

It's not this fool-proof master plan people often think it is. Xbox sales have been kinda bottoming out in spite of them having the lowest price and the power crown. I think the two SKU approach might backfire pretty hard with the Lockheart unit getting word of mouth as being the gimped and unfavorable unit that you have to settle for if you don't want to splurge 500+ bucks.

Not really, if the person buying Lockheart has a 1080p TV the only thing they are going to miss out by not getting Anaconda is supersampling. Is supersampling worth $200? Probably not. It's really just like buying a PC with an RTX 2060 instead of an RTX 2080.
 
Last edited:

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,309
So you saying that gpu difference of 7TF will not impact game design?

Anyway I pretty sure 4TF rumor is bs
The difference aint gonna be that big


It will not if they don't target the same graphical fidelity and resolution. If your baseline is 4k then yes you have more leverage. It's not only about a "7tf" difference, it's also a 3 times the performance difference. Yet a 4k to 1080p or even 720p is a 4 times to 6 times difference.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Yes for lockhart to be a minimum of 1080p it would need have about 1/2 the tflops of anaconda.
Although ram setup does play a part, as we have seen with pro vs 1x, looking at the 1x's tflop count it should not be able to do double the res of the pro ( if you go by ps4 to pro, double the tflops was required to double the resolution, but it was not with the pro to 1x)
exactly bottlenecks are not just GPu power. as mentioned due to better memory bus and higher memory X can manage to push more than 40% pixels due to bottle neck being removed . so lockhart should have no bottle necks in order to ensure the game can be scaled down to run at lower res. but all this means the devs has to consider that the engine needs to run on 4Tf machine as well as the 14 Tf anacando albeit at different resolution.

for instance if lockhart doesn't have ssd and anacaondo has, the game designer can not design his engine with SSD speed assumption of anacando.so the open world design needs to be adjusted to make sure the HDD speeds are also considered which changes the engine drastically
 

itchi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,287
edevs has to consider that the engine needs to run on 4Tf machine as well as the 14 Tf anacando albeit at different resolution.

Every game from Microsoft and every game from 3rd Parties will also be releasing on PCs where they need to support 100 different graphics cards. The notion that devs make super optimized game engines for the hardware died 15+ years ago. Everyone uses multiplatform engines now.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
exactly bottlenecks are not just GPu power. as mentioned due to better memory bus and higher memory X can manage to push more than 40% pixels due to bottle neck being removed . so lockhart should have no bottle necks in order to ensure the game can be scaled down to run at lower res. but all this means the devs has to consider that the engine needs to run on 4Tf machine as well as the 14 Tf anacando albeit at different resolution.

for instance if lockhart doesn't have ssd and anacaondo has, the game designer can not design his engine with SSD speed assumption of anacando.so the open world design needs to be adjusted to make sure the HDD speeds are also considered which changes the engine drastically

Yes, all these things are true.

As you said if lockhart ram system is Similer to anaconda it may push above its perceived tflop wieght, like how the 1x does, sorry if I'm repeating what u said but I think it's a very good to make.
 

LebGuns

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,127
I'm out of the loop on the MS speculation, but the rumor is they're having 2 consoles, with the weaker one being 4 TF? That's insane considering the new consoles will be in the double digits, no? What's this rumor based on?
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Every game from Microsoft and every game from 3rd Parties will also be releasing on PCs where they need to support 100 different graphics cards. The notion that devs make super optimized game engines for the hardware died 15+ years ago. Everyone uses multiplatform engines now.
that is ture but minimum spec still exist even for all those games. and no company wants games run on low seting on their new hardware .we are of course talking hypothetically . lockhafrt will be 7 to 8 Tf and will have non of these issues. even at 4 Tf if the memory bus width, CPU and all are top tier it can punch way higher above its weight
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
You guys don't suppose that Sony's first party studios (ND, SM, Guerrilla etc.) are currently in the process of making patches for their PS4 games to allow them to run at say 4K/60 on the PS5?

Like imagine if the main team of Guerrilla games are busy updating the Decima engine to be compatible to the PS5 and working on HZD2 while an offshoot team is busy making a patch that will allow HZD to run at true 2160p at 60fps on the PS5.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
I'm out of the loop on the MS speculation, but the rumor is they're having 2 consoles, with the weaker one being 4 TF? That's insane considering the new consoles will be in the double digits, no? What's this rumor based on?
it almost died few months back when a leak said lockhart is 4 tf . then yesterday , richard from digital foundry mentioned in a video that based on his sources 4tf is pretty much the plan for lockhart.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
One thing I hope with MS is that if they push the 2 SKU option, both of them have SSD. As soon as the lower end has a lesser HDD, then developers focus around that one. Even if it's a smaller SSD, I hope they push both systems with it.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
You guys don't suppose that Sony's first party studios (ND, SM, Guerrilla etc.) are currently in the process of making patches for their PS4 games to allow them to run at say 4K/60 on the PS5?

Like imagine if the main team of Guerrilla games are busy updating the Decima engine to be compatible to the PS5 and working on HZD2 while an offshoot team is busy making a patch that will allow HZD to run at true 2160p at 60fps on the PS5.
u dont need a team for that . coupl of employees and a month is all you need
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
One thing I hope with MS is that if they push the 2 SKU option, both of them have SSD. As soon as the lower end has a lesser HDD, then developers focus around that one. Even if it's a smaller SSD, I hope they push both systems with it.
that is true .they both need to have SSD as that changes open world game designs due to speed the world is available at your disposal
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
You guys don't suppose that Sony's first party studios (ND, SM, Guerrilla etc.) are currently in the process of making patches for their PS4 games to allow them to run at say 4K/60 on the PS5?

Like imagine if the main team of Guerrilla games are busy updating the Decima engine to be compatible to the PS5 and working on HZD2 while an offshoot team is busy making a patch that will allow HZD to run at true 2160p at 60fps on the PS5.
If Sony do it well, they should not have to do that much work. Some of the games that just lock framerate and resolution without CBR will be a huge boost.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
If anyone wants to take part, I made a poll on what you think the tflop count will be for the PS5.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/what-do-you-think-the-ps5s-gpu-tflop-amount-will-be.112206/

I voted 12 there, but I'm guessing 11 or 12 based on it being a little north of Stadia, but not too far north to bring significant cost issues.

On an aside about Lockhart and XB2, if Lockhart is planned roughly as a 4 Tflop machine, it sort of suggests to me that the Anaconda target for 4K might be targetting 15-16Tflop. 4x1080p, 4x4Tflop = ~16. Sort of makes sense, right? That would explain the confidence that the Anaconda version of the XB2 will be 'the most powerful', since I think they and we can be pretty confident Sony isn't going to be baited into that kind of cost territory, and will be pretty happy with a single baseline 11-12Tflop ballpark for their exclusives to play in.
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
that is true .they both need to have SSD as that changes open world game designs due to speed the world is available at your disposal
If Sony do it well, they should not have to do that much work. Some of the games that just lock framerate and resolution without CBR will be a huge boost.

Thanks for clarifying guys, a part of me thought that it would've been a huge pain in the ass for devs to make a 4K/60 patch for their old PS4 games, so all they need is a small team of devs.

Honestly this is want i wanted in the PS5 the most (excluding tflops), the ability to play enhanced versions of all PS4 1st party and 3rd party games on the PS5 at 4K/60, from the largest AAA title to the smallest indie game.
 

Dave.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,150
Anthony Hopkins

What do you do with your 4TF paperweight if you want to make a "Quantum Break" of sorts, that runs at 1080p on a 14TF PS5/Anaconda ?

What do you do if your game has fairly basic 4K graphics, like RDR2 or Anthem on the X1X - but uses 8TF of GPU compute for revolutionary ML AI systems?

And no, "a bridge falling down" physics calculations take a constant amount of compute regardless of the resolution. The rendering of the result of that calculation is what scales. If you are suggesting they could be downgraded into big crackdown 3 sized megapolygons and players wouldn't notice because the pixels are bigger anyway, while perhaps true that's a different matter and not without effort.
 

itchi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,287
You guys don't suppose that Sony's first party studios (ND, SM, Guerrilla etc.) are currently in the process of making patches for their PS4 games to allow them to run at say 4K/60 on the PS5?

Like imagine if the main team of Guerrilla games are busy updating the Decima engine to be compatible to the PS5 and working on HZD2 while an offshoot team is busy making a patch that will allow HZD to run at true 2160p at 60fps on the PS5.

They almost certainly are the only question is if they will make you pay for it. Microsoft seems pretty committed to giving free updates, but then you also have something like GTA5 which required you to buy the game twice.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
Well everything scales linearly up to a certain point.
A game is going to have different gpu requirements

At 720p, 1080p, 1440p and 2160p

You have failed to explain why taking a game working on a console at 2160p and then then lowering the res to 1080p on a far lower powered GPU would not work?

I have explained it in great detail. You just refuse to acknowledge my reason or simply don't understand it... case in point:

You have said a game is more then resolution, it's physics, polycount etc yes but those things require less resources at a lower resolution, a falling down bridge is going require less compute at 1080p as opposed to 4k because it is literally less data, less data to compute.

Physics has nothing to do with rendering resolution. Its wholly dependent on number of objects in a scene and their interactions.

That you even misunderstand something as basic as this shows you're arguing so vigorously about something you know very little about.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
Lockhart will be interesting since even with a 4tf GPU, the boost in CPU and other stuff will be much more than just a Xbox one with 4tf slapped in.
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
They almost certainly are the only question is if they will make you pay for it. Microsoft seems pretty committed to giving free updates, but then you also have something like GTA5 which required you to buy the game twice.

God i hope we don't need to pay for it multiple times, the cross gen games for example, if someone buys Death Stranding on the PS4 and later on decides to buy a PS5, it would be great if we don't need to buy the game twice.

Just pop your old PS4 copy of Death Stranding on your new PS5, download a quick enhanced patch and boom, Death Stranding in 4K 60fps.

A perfect world.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
God i hope we don't need to pay for it multiple times, the cross gen games for example, if someone buys Death Stranding on the PS4 and later on decides to buy a PS5, it would be great if we don't need to buy the game twice.

Just pop your old PS4 copy of Death Stranding on your new PS5, download a quick enhanced patch and boom, Death Stranding in 4K 60fps.

A perfect world.
what if PS5 version has different assets than PS4 version? not just resolution bump but better lighting ,better shadows ,better effects,etc...its a bit confusing.

Maybe u can play it on PS5 if u have the PS4 disk and it will be ps4 version.until to download a patch (either paid or free) and it becomes the PS5 version with the new assets.
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
Speaking of a perfect world.

Wouldn't it just be great if there was no controversial Lockhart, and the next gen wars was based on the PS5 vs the Xbox Anaconda, where both consoles release at the same price in the same year and close to the same specs albeit a few clock speed upgrades here and there, and the only thing that separates the consoles is its exclusives and services available.

an odd opinion i know but feels perfect to me.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
what if PS5 version has different assets than PS4 version? not just resolution bump but better lighting ,better shadows ,better effects,etc...its a bit confusing.

Maybe u can play it on PS5 if u have the PS4 disk and it will be ps4 version.until to download a patch (either paid or free) and it becomes the PS5 version with the new assets.
That usually does not require assets, that's simple settings within the game, which can be patched. Unlike PC games, console games usually don't give access to performance settings like shadows, effects etc, so it would require settings to be changed to make the use of better things.
 

Segafreak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,756
God i hope we don't need to pay for it multiple times, the cross gen games for example, if someone buys Death Stranding on the PS4 and later on decides to buy a PS5, it would be great if we don't need to buy the game twice.

Just pop your old PS4 copy of Death Stranding on your new PS5, download a quick enhanced patch and boom, Death Stranding in 4K 60fps.

A perfect world.
That's probably gonna be the situation with late gen games, but games like Bloodborne, PS3 games? I doubt it's gonna be a simple patch. I think of remasters with lots of options, 4K60, ray traced, maybe even VR support.

I feel like PS5 remasters are gonna be more than simply a res bump and focus on adding things like RT, VR and 120FPS support (more and more tvs will support HFR in the near future).
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
what if PS5 version has different assets than PS4 version? not just resolution bump but better lighting ,better shadows ,better effects,etc...its a bit confusing.

Maybe u can play it on PS5 if u have the PS4 disk and it will be ps4 version.until to download a patch (either paid or free) and it becomes the PS5 version with the new assets.
True, we may need a bigger patch then usual to accommodate all these features, although for the first year of the consoles life-cycle while this gens still selling like hot cakes, maybe thats what the cross gens games are going to be? just 4K/60 versions of PS4 games to give devs time to make a proper next gen games utilising its Zen2 cpu and Navi gpu in say year 2 or 3? with all those next gen features that you mentioned.
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
That's probably gonna be the situation with late gen games, but games like Bloodborne, PS3 games? I doubt it's gonna be a simple patch. I think of remasters with lots of options, 4K60, ray traced, maybe even VR support.

I feel like PS5 remasters are gonna be more than simply a res bump and focus on adding things like RT, VR and 120FPS support (more and more tvs will support HFR in the near future).

Honestly just a res and frames bump of PS4 games to the PS5 will be more than satisfying, thought of GoW and Bloodbourne at 4K 60 is mouth watering lol.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
It's funny how the alleviation of fears with regards to feature set on the PS5 manifests as lambasting MS's potential multi-SKU strategy. Hard to interpret this sudden shift as anything but the manifestation of platform loyalty.
 

Godzilla24

Member
Nov 12, 2017
3,371
I'm going by the rumors that Lockhart is 299. A 299 would do so well with the masses who don't care about resolution as much as price. They will see games running on Lockhart and see it looking very good even compared with PS5.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
I'm going by the rumors that Lockhart is 299. A 299 would do so well with the masses who don't care about resolution as much as price. They will see games running on Lockhart and see it looking very good even compared with PS5.
If only it was as easy as just having a cheaper option, it's not like it's the case this gen too.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
I can't wrap my head around the economics or logistics of what would be two different consoles if Scarlett 4TF/12TF is true.
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
I don't suppose Microsoft has found a way to use cloud computing to further enhance the specs of the Lockharts rumoured specs?

Like a 4TF Lockhart machine having the same CPU specs as the Anaconda but is using cloud computing to boost its graphical potential upwards to the same scope as the Anaconda, say 12TF.

Hence why the Lockharts only got a 4TF GPU, to keep costs insanely low to sell it cheap at say $299 or lower and to rely on their xcloud service to create a virtual machine of sorts that rivals the Anaconda in performance.

Does that technology exist or have i gone insane?
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
I don't suppose Microsoft has found a way to use cloud computing to further enhance the specs of the Lockharts rumoured specs?

Like a 4TF Lockhart machine having the same CPU specs as the Anaconda but is using cloud computing to boost its graphical potential upwards to the same scope as the Anaconda, say 12TF.

Hence why the Lockharts only got a 4TF GPU, to keep costs insanely low to sell it cheap at say $299 or lower and to rely on their xcloud service to create a virtual machine of sorts that rivals the Anaconda in performance.

Does that technology exist or have i gone insane?
Well that's pretty much what Stadia is pushing for. The only difference with your suggestion is that people have a base system at home and the rest is cloud based.
 
Jan 21, 2019
2,902
You guys don't suppose that Sony's first party studios (ND, SM, Guerrilla etc.) are currently in the process of making patches for their PS4 games to allow them to run at say 4K/60 on the PS5?

Like imagine if the main team of Guerrilla games are busy updating the Decima engine to be compatible to the PS5 and working on HZD2 while an offshoot team is busy making a patch that will allow HZD to run at true 2160p at 60fps on the PS5.

Well if the marketplace continues as is now, just as a PS5 storefront, I can imagine many publishers wanting a sticker on their game saying PS5 ENHANCED!!! to boost long term sales. With the power of next gen, it should be possible to run all PS4 games at 4k/60. Would be awesome to have an upgrade for Dishonored 2 and the like.

I mean, we are getting ports on PC for games like Vanquish and Bayonetta. Can't be too had to imagine them polishing up their games to make them more appealing for new customers, while also pleasing the old fans.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
I don't suppose Microsoft has found a way to use cloud computing to further enhance the specs of the Lockharts rumoured specs?

Like a 4TF Lockhart machine having the same CPU specs as the Anaconda but is using cloud computing to boost its graphical potential upwards to the same scope as the Anaconda, say 12TF.

Hence why the Lockharts only got a 4TF GPU, to keep costs insanely low to sell it cheap at say $299 or lower and to rely on their xcloud service to create a virtual machine of sorts that rivals the Anaconda in performance.

Does that technology exist or have i gone insane?
thats what they promised with x1 and crackdown 3 was the game that was promoting this.

if you have cloud games u dont need 4 TF machine . u need an app.thats all. just like stadia and ps now
 

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,716
Paris
You guys don't suppose that Sony's first party studios (ND, SM, Guerrilla etc.) are currently in the process of making patches for their PS4 games to allow them to run at say 4K/60 on the PS5?

Like imagine if the main team of Guerrilla games are busy updating the Decima engine to be compatible to the PS5 and working on HZD2 while an offshoot team is busy making a patch that will allow HZD to run at true 2160p at 60fps on the PS5.

But wouldn't a PS4 vanilla game running at 30fps needs 8x the power to run at 60fps/4k ? That's almost 15 TF
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
Well that's pretty much what Stadia is pushing for. The only difference with your suggestion is that people have a base system at home and the rest is cloud based.

Exactly, what im proposing is that the Lockhart is essentially an Xbox One that can play xbox one games (the BC part) with a powerful CPU and is a host for the Xcloud

Well if the marketplace continues as is now, just as a PS5 storefront, I can imagine many publishers wanting a sticker on their game saying PS5 ENHANCED!!! to boost long term sales. With the power of next gen, it should be possible to run all PS4 games at 4k/60. Would be awesome to have an upgrade for Dishonored 2 and the like.

I mean, we are getting ports on PC for games like Vanquish and Bayonetta. Can't be too had to imagine them polishing up their games to make them more appealing for new customers, while also pleasing the old fans.
Agreed, picture say E3 2020, Shawn Layden comes on stage, gives a speech about PS5 to 4 backwards compatibility and shows on the screen behind him that more than 100 PS4 games are now PS5 enhanced, the crowd will go wild!
 

Sekiro

Member
Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
thats what they promised with x1 and crackdown 3 was the game that was promoting this.

if you have cloud games u dont need 4 TF machine . u need an app.thats all. just like stadia and ps now

But what if the next gen part of Lockhart is the app and the actual 4TF specs is for backwards compatibility, although i do contradict myself since why need a 4TF machine for Xbox BC when the X is 6TF, honestly 4TF is just a weird number to me lol.
 
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