Sony is notably absent from the VirtualLink consortium, which has a connector standard based on USB-C.
https://www.roadtovr.com/virtuallin...connection-nvidia-amd-valve-oculus-microsoft/
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Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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https://www.roadtovr.com/virtuallin...connection-nvidia-amd-valve-oculus-microsoft/
Yeah, I noticed that. I think Sony's market share will shrink (not because of a lack of quality experiences) as more players enter the fray with more appealing price points. Also, next gen will be a reset on Playstation's VR hardware so let's see what they adopt.
All that to say, I still think USB-C is a given.
I don't know what relevance this has to what I said.
Also you must trouble reading because the reasons for my specs are more then just "MS PR".
And what makes the Sony leak about Sony being in bed with anymore genuine then the X1S2 + X1X2 leak?
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You using a double standard, xbox Pro can't get more memory because of cost but PS5 can. Makes no sense.
Eh, I am kind of in this bucket. My first kid was born summer of 2013 and while I was very interested in the PS4 initially by the time it came out I realized that I was barely able to play my PS3 or PC anymore. My second kid was born a few months before the PS4 Pro came out so I found myself in the same situation. I'm finally to the point with them now that I can start playing more games (I did pick up a Switch in 2017 as I traveled a decent amount for my old job & it was good plane entertainment) and seriously considered getting the $199 Spiderman bundle. However based just on the speculation of new consoles in 2020 (sorry #Team2019ers) pushed me off as if I got a new one now it would be awhile before I could justify buying another console.
Now I don't think there are millions that are in the same situation as me but there is likely a subset of potential buyers who held off initially for whatever reason, are now interested but are holding off due to a new console in the nearish future. I made my decision to wait longer based on some informed speculation but once the next gen is officially announced more people will be OK with waiting.
"Next gen" will be about continuing to invest in the ecosystem of PlayStation, continuing to build on existing libraries. PS5 will basically be a PS4 Pro 2– completely backwards/forwards compatible.
At the start of the gen, a lot of stuff will be playable on PS4, PS4 Pro and PS5– simply running a bit better on each. PS4 will continue to be the "cheap" option. It will be like iPhone/iPad/iOS. They want you to build your library up so it's difficult to leave it behind, things will run better on the newer hardware, eventually some things won't run on the base PS4, but everything except the most demanding AAAA experiences will still work. Things like Horizon 2 and GoW2 will require a PS5, but 3rd party games like Fortnite, CoD etc won't leave the existing install base behind, nor require specific builds to run on PS4, PS4 Pro or PS5.
That's my hope/prediction anyway.
At the start of the gen, a lot of stuff will be playable on PS4, PS4 Pro and PS5– simply running a bit better on each. PS4 will continue to be the "cheap" option. It will be like iPhone/iPad/iOS. They want you to build your library up so it's difficult to leave it behind, things will run better on the newer hardware, eventually some things won't run on the base PS4, but everything except the most demanding AAAA experiences will still work. Things like Horizon 2 and GoW2 will require a PS5, but 3rd party games like Fortnite, CoD etc won't leave the existing install base behind, nor require specific builds to run on PS4, PS4 Pro or PS5.
That's my hope/prediction anyway.
I think you missed the point of my post. Was responding to the prediction of a nearly 17TF Xbox.
PS5 will not be "forward compatible", meaning, you won't be able to take a PS5 disc and use it on PS4/PS4 Pro.
I keep seeing people mention that current high-end PC GPUs don't need more than X amount of ram and so there'll be no need for much more in next gen consoles.
As has been mentioned here many times, a console has to share that memory (and its bandwidth) between the CPU and GPU; and the console OS. The PS4 uses 2.5-3.0GB for the OS; up from ~70MB on the PS3. I can easily see the PS5 OS using 4-8GB.
Also, when PS4 came out the best spec GPUs were in the 3-6GB region, 8GB Single GPUs didn't come to PC for another year to a year and a half after that... and we're talking 290X's, Ti's and Titans.
An integral part of a new console generation is to move the goal posts and set a new baseline, you can't judge the required specs based off what PCs currently use.
I concede that the requirement for a jump in RAM isn't as high as it was before and that prices are no doubt going to represent a challenge, but 2x as the basis for a platform that needs to be a flagship system for 6-8yrs and have a lifespan of 10yrs just doesn't strike me as being practical; even taking into account advances in compression, smart memory controllers and flash caches.
I can't imagine a PS5 with 16GB RAM & 500-600GB/s Bandwidth in the years approaching 2030... Mid-gen refreshes could help a little but the games will ultimately be structured around and limited by the base console in everything but Resolution, FX & Framerate.
I think 24GB @ 768GB/s (Game) + 8GB @ ~40GB/s (OS) is the baseline and I hope for 32GB @ >920GB/s (Game/OS).
In regards to the CPU, I really see no reason to go for anything other than an 8 Core / 16 Thread Zen 2, the gains in die space for dropping multi-threading is negligible and the gain in die space for dropping to 4 or 6 cores won't gain you much in GPU power to make it worth losing 25-50% of your CPU cores..
The relative physical and thermal footprint of a 3.0-3.2GHz 8C/16T Zen 2 will be roughly the same as the Jaguar CPU in PS4. There's likely little to be gained by going for less or more, I think that's the sweet-spot.
I expect:
$399
APU with 8C/16T ZEN2 @ 3GHz & Navi/NG GPU @ ~12TF
24GB GDDR6 @ ~768GB/s (Game) + 8GB DDR4 @ ~40GB/s
1.5TB 5400RPM HDD + 32GB NAND Cache
I hope for:
$449
APU with 8C/16T ZEN2 @ 3.2GHz & Navi/NG GPU @ ~14TF
32GB HBM3 @ 0.9-1.4TB/s
2TB 7200RPM HDD + 64GB NAND Cache + HBCC Memory Controller
Sony are also likely to be the biggest potential customer for high capacity, high speed RAM chips, full stop. Compared to Consumer GPUs, Pro GPUs, Microsoft and all other areas; barring any major cock-ups and depending on the specific technology and densities used, they'll be ordering 2-16 chips per unit and are pretty much guaranteed to sell 80-120 million units over the platform lifespan. I wouldn't be surprised if they alone could shift a promising but problematic and expensive technology [like HBM] to a mainstream technology; benefiting all parties involved and the industry as a whole while getting a great deal. (GDRR6 is pretty much the end of GDDR imo, and HBM or something very similar will soon become a necessity).
As has been mentioned here many times, a console has to share that memory (and its bandwidth) between the CPU and GPU; and the console OS. The PS4 uses 2.5-3.0GB for the OS; up from ~70MB on the PS3. I can easily see the PS5 OS using 4-8GB.
Also, when PS4 came out the best spec GPUs were in the 3-6GB region, 8GB Single GPUs didn't come to PC for another year to a year and a half after that... and we're talking 290X's, Ti's and Titans.
An integral part of a new console generation is to move the goal posts and set a new baseline, you can't judge the required specs based off what PCs currently use.
I concede that the requirement for a jump in RAM isn't as high as it was before and that prices are no doubt going to represent a challenge, but 2x as the basis for a platform that needs to be a flagship system for 6-8yrs and have a lifespan of 10yrs just doesn't strike me as being practical; even taking into account advances in compression, smart memory controllers and flash caches.
I can't imagine a PS5 with 16GB RAM & 500-600GB/s Bandwidth in the years approaching 2030... Mid-gen refreshes could help a little but the games will ultimately be structured around and limited by the base console in everything but Resolution, FX & Framerate.
I think 24GB @ 768GB/s (Game) + 8GB @ ~40GB/s (OS) is the baseline and I hope for 32GB @ >920GB/s (Game/OS).
In regards to the CPU, I really see no reason to go for anything other than an 8 Core / 16 Thread Zen 2, the gains in die space for dropping multi-threading is negligible and the gain in die space for dropping to 4 or 6 cores won't gain you much in GPU power to make it worth losing 25-50% of your CPU cores..
The relative physical and thermal footprint of a 3.0-3.2GHz 8C/16T Zen 2 will be roughly the same as the Jaguar CPU in PS4. There's likely little to be gained by going for less or more, I think that's the sweet-spot.
I expect:
$399
APU with 8C/16T ZEN2 @ 3GHz & Navi/NG GPU @ ~12TF
24GB GDDR6 @ ~768GB/s (Game) + 8GB DDR4 @ ~40GB/s
1.5TB 5400RPM HDD + 32GB NAND Cache
I hope for:
$449
APU with 8C/16T ZEN2 @ 3.2GHz & Navi/NG GPU @ ~14TF
32GB HBM3 @ 0.9-1.4TB/s
2TB 7200RPM HDD + 64GB NAND Cache + HBCC Memory Controller
Sony are also likely to be the biggest potential customer for high capacity, high speed RAM chips, full stop. Compared to Consumer GPUs, Pro GPUs, Microsoft and all other areas; barring any major cock-ups and depending on the specific technology and densities used, they'll be ordering 2-16 chips per unit and are pretty much guaranteed to sell 80-120 million units over the platform lifespan. I wouldn't be surprised if they alone could shift a promising but problematic and expensive technology [like HBM] to a mainstream technology; benefiting all parties involved and the industry as a whole while getting a great deal. (GDRR6 is pretty much the end of GDDR imo, and HBM or something very similar will soon become a necessity).
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Agreed, but consider this, 2 years before the PS4, Battlefield 3 came out and Dice recommended 4GB RAM + 1GB VRAM, yet PS4 ended up with 8GB.
Nothing new just a leak from June 2018
https://wccftech.com/exclusive-amd-navi-gpu-roadmap-cost-zen/
It seems acorrding to that leak that AMD are making Navi for Sony, in the same way vega was built for apple.
MS will have to use Navi because its the only 7nm gpu available according to that leak.
I didn't mean for Sony. MS could go with Vega if they want to launch before Sony
2020 is the earliest i can see anythng substantial being shown. They really should wait until they can deliver at least 1080ti performance in whatever price point they are aiming to hit. Should be very doable at 7nm
So do y'all think we'll get dynamic metadata for HDR games next gen, or are we stuck with HDR10?
Hard to say at the moment. Depends on various factors like Dolby Vision and HDR10+ adoption among TV manufacturers before consoles can think of using them. I suspect we'll be stuck with HDR10 for the majority of games even if dynamic metadata formats are supported.
On the bright side, TV manufacturers have built their own static -> dynamic metadata HDR10 conversion features so you could always use that for now.
Not according to that leak they could not.
Because Navi is the only 7nm gpu amd are doing.
Giving that the leak was wrong about this detail, it does not give much confidence in the validity of the leak.
I'm hoping for Dolby Vision 12-Bit, even HDR10 is showing banding in some games on a 10-Bit + FRC panel.
I would have assumed at first that DV 12-Bit on a 10-Bit + FRC panel would have effectively resulted in the same banding as HDR10 10-Bit on a 10-Bit + FRC panel, but -- while I'm unsure of the mechanism -- it neutralises it entirely.
I'd like to see console manufacturers at least mandate HDR10+ 10-Bit and recommend DV 12-Bit.
Gimme DV 12-Bit 4:4:4 VRR @ 4K using 2160 Checkerboard to 4K or 1600p+ Temperal Injection to 4K and I'll be happy as a pig in poop.
I would have assumed at first that DV 12-Bit on a 10-Bit + FRC panel would have effectively resulted in the same banding as HDR10 10-Bit on a 10-Bit + FRC panel, but -- while I'm unsure of the mechanism -- it neutralises it entirely.
I'd like to see console manufacturers at least mandate HDR10+ 10-Bit and recommend DV 12-Bit.
Gimme DV 12-Bit 4:4:4 VRR @ 4K using 2160 Checkerboard to 4K or 1600p+ Temperal Injection to 4K and I'll be happy as a pig in poop.
Really? I've never been able to see banding on 10-bit panels with 10-bit or higher content. Maybe my eyes just aren't that good...
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So be it. To me it makes no sense to have nearly the double the memory compared to the alleged base console SKU for just a price delta of $100 (this is also not comparable to the current situation with the Xbox One S and the Xbox One X which launched much later). I could be very well the case that PS5 and Xbox Elite share the same size of memory.
1. 18gb > 24gb is nowhere near double
2. If $50 can add 4gb + 2tflops why can't $100 add 6gb + 30% more tflops.
There will be a cost to performance correlation, your prediction gives PS5 some unknown advantage, maybe its a bias you have? Because you have not stated what else it is when talking about the ram and GPU performance.
You will be able to take most "PlayStation" discs and use them in a PS4 or PS5- things like The Last of Us 2 will work in either system, no generation specific discs (at least in the beginning).
While 24-32GB of RAM would be awesome, they could still go for 16GB + 4-8GB of DDR3 for most of the OS. If only about 1GB of the games RAM is used for the OS, then devs would have 15GB to play with - that's 3x the PS4, not 2x. Additionally, if they go for HBCC, that's apparently shown the ability to almost double RAM efficiency in tests, so the 3x could actually become an effective 5-6x.
That's not true. SONY is making PS5 exclusives as a certainty. That is the only reason they stopped announcing new titles last year. What you are describing is backwards compatibility, not forwards. If MS is crazy they can try forwards comparability, I wish them luck because they will need it.
Eventually yes, we will see games that require a PS5, but I really think at launch what you'll see is things like The Ladt of Us 2 or Death Stranding be enhanced for PS5. The same disc will work on both PS4 and PS5. They'll just run better on the PS5, similar to how the Pro works now. I seriously doubt we'll see any games that require the PS5 at launch.
Yes, but that's not what Sharp was talking about. He said - correctly - that there won't be 'forward compatibility'. What you're talking about is backwards compatibility with enhancements.
Supposedly because they are releasing only in q3 the full reveal will be later. Maybe they will show it but not with full details, but dont go expecting full navi specs.
Even the a 7nm vega will give us a better on what to expect from next gen, so I'm still a bit hyped for it.
Still doesn't really change anything. Consoles have always had less RAM than PC's. I'm sure Sony didn't add more RAM just because of Battlefield, they took a risk using GDDR5 and 8GB became available to them in time to add it in.
I'm pretty sure 16GB will be what we get, if it's more I'll be surprised, due to cost. A console OS is usually pretty light weight compared to something like Windows OS, so consoles don't need as much system RAM to run.
You might see a bit more RAM if they do another mid gen refresh or have a more expensive SKU but I still think for a console 16GB will be enough to get the job done.
The Arcade in my prediction has 12GB, if I would assume 24gb on the Pro Elite it would be double the RAM. That is the reason I selected 16GB for the Pro Elite in my prediction instead. That has nothing to do with PS5. I look at each platform distinctively.
It's just that, if the arcade is 12 and the PS5 is 16 then the xbox Pro should be 20gb.
I just don't understand why you think the PS5 will get an extra for 4gb but the xbox pro won't.
In your prediction the PS5 just gets this unexplainable advantage.
I agree.I'll be really surprised if we get more then 16 gigs in ($399) PS5.
Cory Barlog recently said he hopes that PS4 tools carry over to PS5 in a smooth transition.
Cory is one of sony's inner guard, how on earth does he not know what the PS5 is?
If SSM, one of sony's top studios don't have PS5 devkits it does not make a lot of sense for a 2020 launch.
Cory is one of sony's inner guard, how on earth does he not know what the PS5 is?
If SSM, one of sony's top studios don't have PS5 devkits it does not make a lot of sense for a 2020 launch.
I am pretty sure cory never publicly mentioned the ps5 lmao.
It's really tough to make spec predictions for MS when there's two machines in play. A $100 difference when both units are launching at the same time isn't going to buy you a huge difference in power once you include any storage/cooling upgrades and if the PS5 is plonked directly in the middle it'll be a really fine balancing act for MS if they're aiming to draw the 10s of millions of single console users away from the PS ecosystem.
I think the big question for MS will have been how to position these units against the PS5 and what the actual price difference will be. Aiming to make one that is a little less powerful and $50 dollars cheaper and one that is a little more powerful and $50 dollars more is a risky venture, depending on on where Sony land specs wise. Their $50 more expensive box might not offer much of a performance increase or their $50 cheaper box might not offer much of a cost saving, making it difficult to entice away users with a generation of PSN purchases to their name.
I'd be more inclined to believe one unit will go toe to toe with PS5 and one unit will be $100 divergent or that the price difference between the two units will be larger than $100, allowing MS more freedom to position one machine as being significantly more powerful/cheaper.
This is, of course, based on my (probably incorrect) assumption that MS is going to come out guns blazing and go for the jugular.
I think the big question for MS will have been how to position these units against the PS5 and what the actual price difference will be. Aiming to make one that is a little less powerful and $50 dollars cheaper and one that is a little more powerful and $50 dollars more is a risky venture, depending on on where Sony land specs wise. Their $50 more expensive box might not offer much of a performance increase or their $50 cheaper box might not offer much of a cost saving, making it difficult to entice away users with a generation of PSN purchases to their name.
I'd be more inclined to believe one unit will go toe to toe with PS5 and one unit will be $100 divergent or that the price difference between the two units will be larger than $100, allowing MS more freedom to position one machine as being significantly more powerful/cheaper.
This is, of course, based on my (probably incorrect) assumption that MS is going to come out guns blazing and go for the jugular.
He was talking about what he wanted from next gen.
How can he not know?
Unless...
I would of thought sony's top first party's will have PS5 dev kits.
Nobody who actually knows about PS5 can talk publicly about PS5.
They can talk in general terms about what they might want out of next-gen - talk in terms as if they know nothing specifically about it - but they can't talk in any way that would reveal that they even know about the existence of a PS5 at this stage.
In Cory's case he may or may not know about PS5 specifically - it's possible some teams at Sony aren't working with PS5 right now, or it's possible that technical people are, and are NDA-ed, and others are completely unaware - but his comment doesn't indicate anything.
Again, where is the link, because i heavily doubt cory is just openly speaking about next gen.
Dipping into Microsoft's recent patent application output - this caught my eye. Seems to indicate research relating to local compensation for streamed games, to help reduce input latency, the type of thing previously rumoured in reports on Microsoft's cloud gaming service.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/10159901.html
I've only skimmed it, but it doesn't seem to go into a great deal of detail on the really tricky bits. It points to systems where the game client would handle logic and rendering for game objects under direct control or interaction by the player, composited with frames rendered by a server that exclude those objects, with systems to try to reconcile divergence between the server and client. It seems to be mute on methods of reconciliation - a really tricky part - and how to ensure in the general case that objects can be instantaneously interacted with, but it does point to an approach that might need a fair bit of explicit cooperation from the game itself.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/10159901.html
I've only skimmed it, but it doesn't seem to go into a great deal of detail on the really tricky bits. It points to systems where the game client would handle logic and rendering for game objects under direct control or interaction by the player, composited with frames rendered by a server that exclude those objects, with systems to try to reconcile divergence between the server and client. It seems to be mute on methods of reconciliation - a really tricky part - and how to ensure in the general case that objects can be instantaneously interacted with, but it does point to an approach that might need a fair bit of explicit cooperation from the game itself.
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