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When will the first 'next gen' console be revealed?

  • First half of 2019

    Votes: 593 15.6%
  • Second half of 2019(let's say post E3)

    Votes: 1,361 35.9%
  • First half of 2020

    Votes: 1,675 44.2%
  • 2021 :^)

    Votes: 161 4.2%

  • Total voters
    3,790
  • Poll closed .
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klik

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
873
Who knows..maybe NAVI will be some real improvement just like Ryzen was on CPU side. They had plenty of time to design it from the scratch with collaboration with Sony.


Im really hoping for 12TF in PS5 but we're likely gonna have something between 8-10TF.


Its really great to see new titles like Battlefield 5,COD,Apex Legends run on 60fps on base console in 6th year of console age.They sacrifice a bit a resolution but its still crisp. So im sure even 5-6 years into PS5 console age we will see many multiplayer titles run on 60fps on 1080/1440p especially with ryzen cpu which will be a big boost to fps.Developers will have more flexibility to choose between 1080/60 or 1440+/30.
On ps3 they didnt flexibility beacuse titles was hardly running even 720p
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Man I cannot wait for Mark Cerny taking the stage at the announce event and blowing our minds. I am curious of the secret sauce, but I strongly suspect it will have to do with machine learning for rendering purposes. That area has so much potential and is a thing that can be improved dramatically over the lifetime of the console if the GPU is built for it.

I think secret sauce will be at a minimum.
Expect 10tflop GPU, 8 core zen, and 24gb ram.
I also expect new types of checkboarding which is even better.

Games that are 4kcb on that spec will be holy shit balls amazing.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
7900f80ed507dc4882f2631fc5ad7cac.jpg
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
crazy suggestion incoming:

now we have a rumor about anaconda (Arden) having Non-Transparent Bridge, which supposedly is used to connect 2 processors right?

what if, WHAT IF, anaconda has some sort of an SLI like solution, and that anaconda's GPU is basically 2 lockhart GPUs stacked together?
this means less R&D on creating this and will probably be much easier for developers.

GPUs aren't independent processors, they need a host CPU to function. Also, multi-GPU in a console remains a terrible idea at this time.
 

eathdemon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,607
Nah. Raytracing probably wouldn't be done with an independent processor with its own memory either.

MS may just add a secondary low-power processor to run background tasks. Similar to what the PS4/Pro has, but not implemented in such a....."creative" way.
I mean why not. honestly to do raytracing you need a chip for it, just look at the rtx chips where nvidia takes only a small part of the chip. what happends, and I agree ms would never do this, but have a full raytracing chip? that would allow them to dpo stuff no pc can, but its zero chance that happends.
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
I mean why not. honestly to do raytracing you need a chip for it, just look at the rtx chips where nvidia takes only a small part of the chip. what happends, and I agree ms would never do this, but have a full raytracing chip? that would allow them to dpo stuff no pc can, but its zero chance that happends.

It's the type of chip. The type of connection enabled by that bridge device is what you would use to connect two CPUs not a CPU and specialized processor unless that specialized processor had the ability and the need to operate independently of the main CPU.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,027
Make little sense to have raytracing hardware in only one high end SKU of one platform. It won't get the traction to make it worthwhile.
 
Nov 12, 2017
2,877
Do you have a source for this ?
Yeah

About the reddit leak.

  1. The hardware is partially true
  2. Storage is true
  3. Raytracing is true
  4. Lockhart is not Streaming box
  5. Xbox SoC codename is Anubis, check AMD's plan
  6. MS AI is not a part of the hardware, in other words, never heard of TPU or ASIC like it
  7. How to implement Raytracing? See GDC 2019
  8. Why they make a decision like Lockhart? See GDC 2019
  9. Why there still no DevKit? After GDC 2019
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
6,095
Scarlett fever and Princess Ariel are perfectly acceptable code names
It's the type of chip. The type of connection enabled by that bridge device is what you would use to connect two CPUs not a CPU and specialized processor unless that specialized processor had the ability and the need to operate independently of the main CPU.

So this is honestly just a secondary processor to offload secondary tasks and downloads just like ps4 has with a secondary ARM. Not anything huge
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,912
Maryland
I imagine that, if they're doing split pools, they'd rather use them hierarchically - like cache levels - rather than having system and OS pools. If that's the case, it would make sense to go with more than 4GB for the upper level (cheaper) pool.



Ariel has two busses listed, A and B, and two separate bridges. It's probably doing the thing where the processors can access memory directly or through each other's cache, hence the crazy bridging.



I don't know if I grasp the differences between these two topologies well enough to explain it, lol.

Hypervisor/system manager/background task ARM core, mayhaps? Similar to the PS4 Pro.
 

Vanillalite

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,709
crazy suggestion incoming:

now we have a rumor about anaconda (Arden) having Non-Transparent Bridge, which supposedly is used to connect 2 processors right?

what if, WHAT IF, anaconda has some sort of an SLI like solution, and that anaconda's GPU is basically 2 lockhart GPUs stacked together?
this means less R&D on creating this and will probably be much easier for developers.

SLI is never as good as it needs to be.

It Dragon Ball terms it's the opposite of fusion. This means that you end up getting less power than you should. Instead of 100 + 100 = 200 you get more like 100 + 100 is more like 150.
 

Locuza

Member
Mar 6, 2018
380
What do you make of all this Ariel thing?
I'm your average Joe here, I read the list and don't think much of it.

Do HBCC or StoreMI rely on it?
As far as I understand it the HBCC works self contained on Vega10 without a IOMMU interaction direct CPU page table access.
If you have a console chip with different memory pools then there might be interaction happening with different memory management units.

StoreMI or better FuzeDrive from Enmotus might exploit the IO communication capabilities of recent processors, it does also support Intel CPUs.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,069
I think secret sauce will be at a minimum.

Nah i expected there will be a good amount for both Sony and MS .
They working with AMD for years on this .
Now i don't expected some crazy TF number just that MS and Sony will have stuff that would suit there needs more .
That AMD won't bother to put in there desktop version cause there is no need to .
 

M3rcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
Scarlett fever and Princess Ariel are perfectly acceptable code names

So this is honestly just a secondary processor to offload secondary tasks and downloads just like ps4 has with a secondary ARM. Not anything huge

No idea. That's just one possibility as to why that bridge device exists. That's why I said I wonder what it could be bridging to. I was hoping somebody could come up with something I didn't think of (or someone who knows would drop a hint).
 
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discotrigger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
561
I think it's best not to expect any surprises in terms of the hardware at this point. After Navi is revealed, we'll essentially know what kind of performance we're going to get by looking at the mid-range option (which might still be the fastest Navi GPU they reveal, mind you).

I think what people are going to be impressed by, and this has been the case for every console generation for a while, is the innovation on the software side. Sure, you can't get any more realistic than PBR in terms of authoring content, but all those little things devs wish they could put into their games today will become commonplace and more brutally optimized than we've ever seen them before. Just think of all the beautiful techniques for indirect lighting, shadows, and complex materials you've already seen (sans raytracing) being used together and at higher settings.

And let's not even get started on how insane the artwork is going to look, given the right talent is involved. Actually nevermind, let's. We can already use far more polygons than devs are typically using on current hardware, and a lot of the reason artists aren't going higher is because of the futility of making an overly smooth model without a detailed enough normal map to complement it. Also, many are afraid of vertex skinning costs, but this limit is going to be lifted in a tremendous way with these new CPUs. So from day one, we'll see many of these rendering techniques used together with less pressure for artists to optimize, and without a fundamental shift in authoring tools, leading to an impressive leap in visuals without any new innovations. After all, there are many realtime techniques that have been available for years that devs have been eager to use which the PS4 just couldn't support without aggressive optimization and absurd man hours. Many of these things were only just barely out of reach on contemporary console hardware.

Now, on top of all of that, consider the additional techniques and research that will be born out of an 8-12 TF GPU being the lowest common denominator (excepting the Switch since it requires so much extra work and many games already skip it). While we could certainly use the crazy performance some are daydreaming about, I think a lot of developers aren't even going to know what to do with 10 TF especially when it comes to their artwork. 'Easy mode' would be making the games of today with PC-like settings and more density, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but if a developer really wants to make use of the hardware, they'll be able to blow our socks off.

The primary limitations on artists from this generation will be gone. There is so much short of raytracing that we're going to be happy to have.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,805
Australia
SLI is never as good as it needs to be.

It Dragon Ball terms it's the opposite of fusion. This means that you end up getting less power than you should. Instead of 100 + 100 = 200 you get more like 100 + 100 is more like 150.

On PC yes, where few use it and the devs likely don't have very much time to program for it efficiently. Couldn't it be different in the case of a console that has it built-in, with every single game being programmed to use it properly?
 
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