-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
- Start date
- Status
PS4 Jaguar is Goku fighting Frieza at Kaio-Ken x10.
PS5 Zen2 is Super Saiyan Goku.
Interesting.
How big will the jump be if we go to 8-12 tf in DBZ power levels?
Wut? My post was about bc.
Btw on your topic people continue to take that Cerny words as universal law ..Im not drinking it....i suspect it was just an esagerare way to downplay xbx specs..because there are been multiple proof that he was wrong ,... But that's my take on it
PS4 is Imperfect Cell.
PS4 Pro is Semi-Perfect Cell.
8TF PS5 is (Mr) Perfect Cell.
12TF PS5 is Super Perfect Cell.
You want to be Super Perfect, don't you?
There have not, actually, and the idea that Cerny would care about downplaying the X a year before it's release is laughable, but it doesn't matter if he was right or wrong. The point is that it shows the opinion of the PS5's designer regarding how many teraflops you need for a certain goal. Even if he did overshoot the amount needed for native 4K PS4 games, that indicates he would also overshoot the amount needed for the PS5 (to our benefit).
PS4 is SSJ1
PS4 Pro / XBX is Buff SSJ1 Trunks
PS5/Anaconda is SSJ2 Gohan
I was responding to someone else. Not sure how your post was quoted as well. My mistake. And no what he says isn't law, but considering he is the lead designer of PS consoles now it certainly holds a considerable amount of weight. More than any one else's.
Well MS is going to include some AI chip into the next Hololens.
Imagine they added something like this to the next console?
Imagine they added something like this to the next console?
Somebody posted this on B3D forum today:
"PS5 dev kits in the wild and i've some good news for you
System will be revealed close to E3 2019 in Sony's Special event with some mind-blowing tech demos and a few megatons and a release date for Q1-Q2 2020! The Last of Us Part 2's motion matching in 4K 60fps is a joy to watch!
Specifications:
CPU: 8Core/16Threads at 3.2Ghz (boost) Zen2 (this is the biggest improvement we've ever seen CPU-wise, even bigger than PS2 to PS3)
GPU: Fully NAVI-Based GPU with some AMD's next generation arch features at 12.6tf to 14.2tf (GPU clock still undecided)
Memory: 24GB - 20GB GDDR6 at 880Gb/s - 4GB DDR4 reserved for OS
2tb HDD"
anexanhume Colbert BitsandBytes and other guys who post there,what do you think? :)
Sounds too good to be true i guess...
EDIT: Please ignore this,user who posted it is untrustworthy!
System will be revealed close to E3 2019 in Sony's Special event with some mind-blowing tech demos and a few megatons and a release date for Q1-Q2 2020! The Last of Us Part 2's motion matching in 4K 60fps is a joy to watch!
Specifications:
CPU: 8Core/16Threads at 3.2Ghz (boost) Zen2 (this is the biggest improvement we've ever seen CPU-wise, even bigger than PS2 to PS3)
GPU: Fully NAVI-Based GPU with some AMD's next generation arch features at 12.6tf to 14.2tf (GPU clock still undecided)
Memory: 24GB - 20GB GDDR6 at 880Gb/s - 4GB DDR4 reserved for OS
2tb HDD"
anexanhume Colbert BitsandBytes and other guys who post there,what do you think? :)
Sounds too good to be true i guess...
EDIT: Please ignore this,user who posted it is untrustworthy!
Last edited:
from the new shawn layden interview:
if true then i feel like late 2020 is becoming pretty likely.
reads to me like there wont be any major event until after june 2019?
if true then i feel like late 2020 is becoming pretty likely.
Richard's right, the architecture and roadmaps are so well-known that making a leak is too easy. This is probably bullshit, though I totally want it.
Mod there didn't ban the guy who posted this or anything,he was commenting on it and i agree:this sounds way too expensive.This is $499 box,i think there is no way Sony can sell this for $399 next year.If they do it would be absolutely fantastic! :)
This is much better than other fake leak but it is probably fake...
I mean, a unit cost of around $499 doesn't mean a shelf price of $499. If Sony takes a $100 loss - smaller than what they took with the PS2, and WAY smaller than PS3 - that could be believable.
It's surprising how transparent they're being. Honestly admitting that they're not doing a conference because they don't want to disappoint.
Is there any Ram configuration that could actually give you 20GB?
Edit: hm I didn't know some GPUs have a 320bit bus, so maybe.
Edit: hm I didn't know some GPUs have a 320bit bus, so maybe.
I think they mean 24GB ram with 20GB usable for games.
lol 12.6 tflops. The Radeon 7 is a 300w GPU at 7nm. 1.4Ghz gives it a 11.1 tflops of performance. 1.7Ghz gives you 13 tflops. Even with a 25% performance increase thanks to the improvements in the Navi architecture, you are not going to get 12 tflops of performance in a console GPU.
You are not going to get anyhing over 1.0 Ghz in a $399 console. Unless Sony decides to go with a $499 console which should allow them to pack in a fancy cooling solution similar to what we see in the X1x, but thats very unlikely.
It says the 4GB is a different RAM type, but it doesn't matter now, the bitrate they list sounds a little too high to be possible.
For 299 with a additional controller as gift right? 14.2 tf ...sure ahhah
if it was 24GB on a 384 bit bus I think one of the GDDR6 ram speeds got you to around 880GB/s. But expensive
Wel, 8 tflops on a Navi GPU should give you more than a Polaris based 8 tflops GPU if rumors are to be believed. They said Navi architectural improvements will bring them in line in Nvidia Tflops which gives you roughly 25-33% more for the same tflops. Which means an 8 tflops Navi GPU could be the same as a 10-11 tflops Polaris or even Vega GPU.
There have been rumors that the performance will be similar to that of a Nvidia 1080. Curious how they didnt say 1080ti which is a 11 tflops Nvidia GPU where as the 1080 is 8 tflops.
besides, and im gonna go on a tangent here, Cerny has already been proven wrong. If RDR2 can do native 4k at 6 tflops, i would think we can disprove that it will require a full 8 tflops to run 1080p PS4 games at native 4k. RDR2 isnt the only X1X game running at native 4k either. Anthem is running at native 4k, Wolfenstein, Doom, Both Rise and Shadow of Tomb Raider are native 4k, Halo 5, Gears 5, Forza 7 and Horizon 4 are native 4k. thats a lot of high profile titles running at native 4k on a 6 tflops GPU.
Besides, Cerny is a great engineer but not prone to mistakes. He doubled down on checkerboarding with the Pro which isnt used as often as i would like. A lot of devs just settle for 1440p. Even Sony's exclusives like Spiderman, SOTC and Uncharted top out at 1440p which is infruriating because thats only 3.7 million pixels. not even double the number of pixels a base PS4 can output at 1080p. RDR2's checkerboarding solution was a debacle which is crazy because i thought Cerny put in a dedicated checkerboarding chip in the Pro hardware.
They key reason why so many Pro games settle for 1440p is the memory bandwidth which has now become the bottleneck. Cerny didnt see that coming. OR he did and he just couldnt do anything about it because the hardware just wasnt ready at the time. I fear we are going to see the same thing next gen. With Vega GPUs consuming so much power to deliver 10-12 tflops, AMD just hasnt been able to give Cerny a 12-14 tflops monster even with Navi and 7nm improvements. Sony will undoubtedly force a $399 hardware budget on him which will limit him even more and he wouldnt be able to bump up the GPU clocks like MS did with the X1x.
Again, dont mean to knock Cerny but hes not some Einstein like guy who is going to come in and tell extremely talented AMD engineers something they dont already know. Even if he does, it will be something minor in the system architecture and not soemthing that will let AMD put a 12 tflops 300 W GPU like Radeon 7 in a console. I think PS3, PS2 and PS1 BC will be Cerny's biggest houdini act next if he can pull it off.
Just another case of take multiple other "leaks" and compile into a new one. If anything turns out correct it would be luck/coincidence.
Last edited:
PS4 is SSJ Goku
Pro is SSJ2 Goku
8TF PS5 is SSG Goku
12TF PS5 is SSB Goku, for a Super comparison.
Devkits tend to be more powerful than the actual retail hardware, aren't they?
I don't believe that is the case for any of the PS4 or Pro final/actual hardware dev kits or test kits? Not counting the early PC-Based kits.
if he was talking about dev kits then he would know their performance level considering he claims to have one lol.
Oh, I didn't take away from his post that he actually has one.
Anyway, even though it's most likely a fake, I still got excited about what he said about the reveal.
While this is technically possible to make, it would require Navi to be more efficient with memory-bandwidth and running ~96CUs at ~1000-1150MHz. Completely doable for desktop, though I doubt we'll see something like this until the next mid-gen console refresh.
Navi would need to have zen type jumps to reach those numbers. Everything else is plausible. He would not know price, maybe first party does? Even then, probably just upper management in the studios. Most likely fake
The "conventional wisdom" showing up around places like this that you can put the OS on some other RAM pool is just nonsense. It makes zero sense to anyone who understands the basics of system architecture. The PS4 Pro doesn't run the OS from its additional 1GB RAM pool, it treats it as a peripheral device it can write to when switching away from media playback tasks to gaming. Like swap space but with faster I/O than disk and a dedicated purpose.
And if i remember well, that white dev kit looked damn nice with some fancy little display.
Last edited:
We're not talking about an exponential increase in CPU perf, more a scaling factor of 2-3x.
If you take a current gen game that is CPU bound (and many are), double the framerate, then you only have 0 to 1x jaguar compute performance to leverage for increased simulation complexity. It's nowhere near as large an increase as you seem to be suggesting.
The issue with performance options is that for CPU bound games, running at twice the framerate isn't even possible for a game designed for 30fps. In which case, the mere act of choosing to include performance mode doesn't come for free but requires you to specifically design your game for 60fps then scale back for 30fps play. If a game doesn't even benefit all that much from 60fps, then sacrificing your perf. budget to just to provide an option starts to make less and less sense.
Also the game genres you cite as being 60fps have generally been 60fps every gen since forever, primarily because it makes most sense for many games in those genres.
If anything I'd argue a much lower proportion of games this and last gen are 60fps, as in the PS2 generation and before 60fps was pretty much ubiquitous across all games.
I understand why some gamers want 60fps, but adding in the option doesn't come without a cost, be that a reduction in the scope of the dev's vision for the game, a simplification mechanics or reduction in simulation complexity, i.e. all the sacrifices required to design for 60fps from the outset.
I think we'll have to see, because we may have reached a plateau in CPU computational demand for games in the most popular genres, in which case the extra perfornance Zen brings can more or less provide 60fps "for free" (which is what I think you're assuming).
I personally suspect we're not there yet, and devs will have been cultivating ideas for the last 6yrs that they've been itching to unleash but haven't been able to do so because of the current gen weak CPUs. This turning out to be the case, I wouldn't want devs to rein in their ambition for the sake of 60fps that doesn't matter to games in many genres.
I mean 1.6 to 3 is almost a 2x increasse, than a extra 30% per clock gives it a extra 60%. even if we assume a 2x increase to get to 60fps, not fully true, there is this a 60% extra power for devs to use. unless the game dev is caculation everything per frame, they should not be, its not a 2x increase for getting 60fps. done right, I would argue its clossers to a 1.5 incresse in cpu power needed.
To be fair the only game which runs at 4K with good fps on the X it's RDR2 in my memories. The other AAA you mentioned are not even 4k native and most lean to run less stable on the X. So if you want to use this argue against Cerny, it seems indeed he was right.
And speaking about CBR, use RDR2 as example how the CBR is a "failure" when it's the only a single game with an awful implementation and most of the developers prefer to use it, again prove how Cerny is on the point about many stuff related to future gpu tech.
Last edited:
If a game is very much CPU bound then yeah a 2x increase in perf is required to execute the same amount of computation in half the frame time. CPUs often evaluate some computation at greater than the output framerate, e.g. physics are often calulated at 2+x the framerate.
Regardless, your example is even less generous than mine. Fundamentally it all depends on what the game is doing and that's not something you can know even if you wanted to base it on what current-gen games are doing today.
I just think this expectation that Zen will bring ubiquitous 60fps gaming is a little misplaced. It'll depend fully on what devs decide to do with it and i'd be willing to bet hard cash that outside of twitch shooters/fighters/racers, devs will have a lot of ideas of how to use that jump in performance that doesn't include 60fps.
At the end of the day, if VRR and enabled TVs become commonplace, devs will be able to shoot for consistent 40, 45, 50, 55 fps rates and not have to worry.
the thing holding vrr back is its only in high end tvs sadly. tv makers know thech core will pay a premuim for it, so no need to include it as a baseline. I dont think 60fps will be the standerd, but I do think it will be more common. not every game needs more complex ai/physics.
also my guess didnt include the addition of logical threads that zen ads, so your talking a almost double of power assuming 2+ cores worth of power assuming thats true.
BS. There's no way to get that memory speed with a 320-bit bus width (20GB GDDR6).
It also has a fast HDD transfer Port to support a faster build & Test pipeline. Many fancy things ....
- Status