Oh, did not see that. At least I was able to provide a link to the thread where it can be discussed ;)
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Next gen PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Secret sauces spicing 2019
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
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Which means ....no backwards compatibility? That's a big thing to sweep under the rug of "ehh just do the same as last time"
Cerny and his engineering team, after discussing with developers, put together what they think will drive the future of their hardware business and if it's a good pitch then the President approves it.
That's how I imagine it works for them.
Which I imagine would include backwards compatibility. All the third parties would push for that. First party? Who knows. Sony doesn't really have service based games
I hope by "You can see what that would suggest for the future, so I think that was a good experiment" he means that streaming will be around for BC but the games can be played locally too.
Tbh, this doesn't sound that way. It sounds about you can still stream those games for extra money even you own the disc, just like today. But I hope I am wrong ... (regarding PS3 BC, I don't think they scrap PS4 BC on console, that would be a horrible message)
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Well yeah, but I'm trying to be optimistic. It certainly reads like he thinks streaming of older titles is the way to go but I try not to say anything negative about Sony because the dogpiling isn't worth it.
Not when ive had some southern comfort, I get triggered by drivebys at the best of time lol
Concern trolling mostly. Don't recall corporate defence. I would take that as "well if Sony doesn't have backwards compatibility it's not biggie". The defence has been mostly towards "give him a chance". Which sounds reasonable, to me atleast
Like he just came out of nowhere and wasn't in charge of PS Europe since PS1 days...
That's in regards to his backwards compatibility comments. Which who knows, maybe if he was in charge years ago it would mean something or nothing. Who knows. Generally speaking, if someone has that kind of succesful track record they should expect to get promoted
I smell some next gen news from DICE, maybe ...
Gut feeling?
I smell some next gen tuna from DICE, maybe ...
Oh?And what makes you think that...? :)
Well he's had a few PR blunders and that's certainly an area that folks tend to hold onto around these parts, just ask Penello lol. I think Jim is going to work out fine though. Dude has been around for a long time doing good work.
Devs & Journos at the same meeting, lot of talk, some closed door conversations, ....
Thats a purrfect environment for getting info ...
How you are able to say this in a world where Forza 7 , Forza Horizon 3 and 4, Halo 5 , Assassin's Creed Origins and Odyssey exists is baffling. They all run at 4k natively with stable performance on a 6tf machine.
And if RDR2 can make it 4k and stable performance, Cerny's theory is proven wrong , objectively.
Is being in the company since 1994, become marketing leader in europe and in other countries.
Does every single x1 enhanced game run 4k 30fps solid? Do even three quarters do that?
Why does that matter? He was responding to a grossly incorrect statement made about the X1X's 4K capacity (though the poster of said statement is not surprising at all). The console IS capable of competent 4K gaming. The end.
Cerny was right in stating that you'd need 8TF to have all current gen games render in 4K across the board IMO. However that poster was flat-out wrong in saying that only 1 game on XB1X runs at 4K with a "good" fps. I don't even own any flavor of XB1 and I know that's a lie.
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What does that mean, across the board? I certainly don't believe that 8TF would give across the board 4k. Obviously more 4K gaming than the X. But, developers will easily find ways to use more than 8TF and blow up that Cerney quote. Developers will sacrifice something for games to play at 4K across the board or just checkerboard again to meet those fps goals. Just like 6TF could be across the board if developers wanted to sacrifice even more then 8TF would require. It will always be a matter of what you want to sacrifice to get there. If RDR2 can do 4K on the X every game should - but that is not the case is it? and it won't be for a 8TF based console as well.
thats the thing a 8tfp gpu = a 2rfps gpu at 1080p, hell even 12tfps only = a 3 tfp gpu at 1080p. I know I am in the monority on these fourms, but I will take preformce over rez any day of the week. yeah I know 4k sells boxes, oh well.
He was giving a rough estimate of what you would need, compute wise, to take most PS4 games that run at 1080p and get them running at native 4K. That's all. It wasn't a rule. It wasn't a promise. It wasn't a projection of any actual hardware. It was just a way to say quadrupling your resolution roughly quadruples your shading requirements.
What magnitude of increase would make it exponential? Hint: you can't meaningfully extrapolate an exponential curve from two points. If CPU increases even by a factor of 1.01x each generation then the growth is exponential. It's just that the exponent is small. Growth must be a fixed difference (eg: +1TF per generation in a GPU) for it to be linear. More complex curves that are not simply linear or exponential growth are likely quadratic or a higher order function.
Sorry, but a pet peeve of mine because the term "exponential" gets misused all the time. I had to correct it in a document headed for VP review at work just the other day.
Yep .
I don't know why some people are taking what he said to be some hard rule .
We can have 4k or 60fps right now it just depends on what the devs want to do .
Him giving a rough estimate is all it was .
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No Cerny wins, not all 1080p PS4 game are 4k on Xbox One X. Even if it was one game non 4k he wins and there is tons of non 4k game on Xbox One X.
And this is why he is the lead architect of Playstation hardware and not someone talking nonsense in resetera forum.
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I'm confused. He was speaking about what it would take to get the current PS4 games on the base hardware to render at full 4K. His estimate was 8TF. It had nothing to do with whatever it is you're talking about.
I struggled to find another word to explain what I wanted to say, so "exponential" increased seemed the most fitting. I know it's not technically correct, but then few words used in the common internet poster lexicon actually are.
You knew what I meant anyway :-P
Using vector Zen2 it will probably more be a factor of 4 to 6 maybe more if they use AVX 512 the ISA is better too. It depends of the task.
People are STILL talking about Cerny's 8TF comment?
This is the original quote from the October 2016 interview:
The thing is, we don't know what he based that number on, really. I'm sure we all agree that he's knowledgeable enough to not have just made it up out of nowhere. But at the end of the day he phrased it as a "personal estimate" and we can't really take it as absolute final word on this matter.
However, I do think that his BC patent can explain the logic behind the number. It seems that the BC solution is designed so that it would run every PS4 game on a PS5 exactly as a real PS4 would run it with no additional work required on the game's code. If the same approach is applied to native 4K, the 8TF number makes more sense.
I'm not a fan of using that number to speculate on next gen specs, tbh, but since people do anyway... if you assume that he and his team were already working on the PS5 around that time, it would make sense they'd target a lot more than 8TF for next gen. OR they will need huge architectural improvements to get much better actual, real life game performance per TF.
This is the original quote from the October 2016 interview:
The thing is, we don't know what he based that number on, really. I'm sure we all agree that he's knowledgeable enough to not have just made it up out of nowhere. But at the end of the day he phrased it as a "personal estimate" and we can't really take it as absolute final word on this matter.
However, I do think that his BC patent can explain the logic behind the number. It seems that the BC solution is designed so that it would run every PS4 game on a PS5 exactly as a real PS4 would run it with no additional work required on the game's code. If the same approach is applied to native 4K, the 8TF number makes more sense.
I'm not a fan of using that number to speculate on next gen specs, tbh, but since people do anyway... if you assume that he and his team were already working on the PS5 around that time, it would make sense they'd target a lot more than 8TF for next gen. OR they will need huge architectural improvements to get much better actual, real life game performance per TF.
Yeah, probably some people here have more knowledge than Cerny. It's ERA.
Lol. I still remember the DF thread with RDR2's 4K analysis. It was hilarious cos prior to that analysis many here had written it off as a foolish rumor saying the 1X wasn't capable of running that game at 4K.
Agreed.. and there are more titles listed in the Xbox 1X enhanced thread. I remember DF saying MS did a stress test of all major 3rd party game engines on the 1X prototype hardware during it's development and that's one of the reasons they produced such a capable machine. I hope they do same with all versions of Scarlett.
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Cernys comment was about running most the current gen games at 4k not just select few. so if XB1x can run 30% of its library at 4k with 6 TF , definitely what cerny said is correct that u would need 8 TF to run majority of the titles at 4k.
And yet X1X can't run games in 4k with UE4, some games in Frostbite engine and games using AnvilNext engine
Personal estimate was based on Knack, one would assume. So, unless we see X1X native 4k version of Knack, the estimate was right.
I said the only AAA games with stable fps in 4k with demanding scenario it's just RDR2 from my memory. And it's not like a single game could change the whole narrative around the 4k. Hitman series or TR (the last wasn't even native to be fair) showed unstable fps too often. I never talked of first party games...and it baffling me you continue to spit out AAA titles which are not absolutely 4k like AC series (should be around 1600-1800p). No offence but it seems pretty clear you are just repeating the marketing spin of the real 4k machine by MS more than provide data.
Cerny has said a simple math. If we consider a ps4 a 1080p hardware, you need around 4x times is power to offer 4k with the same graphic setting. The same said to another AMD insider. It's a rough estimation at the end and nothing of too complicated to presume.
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